Ridiculed in the West, Apple's iOS 6 Maps are instead praised in China

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 39
    successsuccess Posts: 1,039member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Cash907 View Post


    Yes, but considering THIS happened there as well, does anyone really give a damn about China's opinions currently?


     


    http://www.infowars.com/man-crushed-by-road-flattening-truck-on-orders-of-chinese-officials/



    That's been going around. It's fake. Could've easily taken video since all cameras have video. 

  • Reply 22 of 39



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    I agree, the maps are definitely better than GM in China, a significant improvement.


     


    Maps are much more detailed and search is more reliable. They are also more up to date both in the map and the satellite images for most cities I have checked in China. The GPS is also less 'offset', this might be useful if I ever need to use the find my phone feature as google maps could be up to 1/2km off at times, making it absolutely useless on GM. This may help make up for the lack of turn by turn, 3d or the limitation of Siri here (still a very reduced feature set).


     


    In response to JRagosta, China Mobile is very much the dominant mobile telecoms provider and has the best coverage outside of the cities but has been losing customers to the other two major players China Unicom and China Telecom because it does not sell the iPhone and can only offer a 2G service to iPhone users at present. As another poster pointed out this has not stopped over 15m users from using the iPhone on China Mobile. The main reason for this is that unlike most European countries, it is not possible to port numbers from one provider to another. This means that it is not uncommon for people to have two or more phones to keep numbers active nut to benefit from the strengths of different providers. It also explains why dual sim mobiles are popular over here.


     


    I have mentioned in previous posts that at lot of our Chinese staff have iPhones and iPads even though they are paid a much lower wage than what would be considered normal in Western countries. They are still paid the market rate for the region plus bonus so have a reasonable disposable income compared to their peers. It should also be noted that mobile phones are higher up the economic priority list for a lot of Chinese people.


     


    I can only recommend that anyone posting political comments on here that have not yet had the opportunity to visit China yet come and see it for yourself. It is an amazing, place full of wonderful individuals of great character and humour. It is also frustrating and different at times and has some glaring imperfections but that can be said of anywhere in the world. Please bear in a country of 1.3billion people there are are going to be some poor representatives of humanity we are all influenced by our environment.


     


    Sorry to post a long one but thank you Apple my maps app is definitely an improvement in China, I hope that you can sort out the UK and Europe before I travel over there in November! image  


     


     


     
  • Reply 23 of 39
    I couldn't disagree more! It seems that the balance for the new iOS 6 maps is positive for those who live in China. It may even sound credible if you stay in China and don not travel abroad, right?

    In fact, it is not right.

    In fact, is worse than it looks. All apps use iOS native maps; meaning that if you are using apps that provide any geopositioning ( eg. following friends through Latitude, having tracking utilities to recover lost devices, ....) abroad, you are left with nothing; and there is no way to solve that.

    Apple crippled so many useful apps!! (for those living in China)

    I am really disappointed. It happened again, before MobileMe and now this! And what is worse; it proves that customers are not in the center of Apple's strategy anymore!!

    The balance for iOS 6 new maps in China can not be a positive one; and -if you allow me to say so- that is what it seems from your post.
  • Reply 24 of 39
    aiaaia Posts: 179member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SalmanPak View Post



    I wonder how many of those 1.3 billion people can actually afford iPhones?


     


    More than in the US

  • Reply 25 of 39
    Probably you are right. I live in Beijing and travel often to many other major Chinese cities, and iPhone success is absolutely stunning!
  • Reply 26 of 39
    aiaaia Posts: 179member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post





    As an expat living in China I can verify through personal observation and experience that these numbers are valid. It is far easier to get a mobile phone than a landline in China and just about everyone has one. It is also much less expensive to build out wireless infrastructure in developing countries / areas than to put in landlines. Plans are extremely cheap here as are the available phones - my mid-level voice and data plan I use with my iPhone is only $15 USD per month with China Unicom. And there are much less expensive plans available.


     


    I agree. Pretty much everyone living in the cities here will have a mobile phone (including the migrant workers making just $100 US/month). A mobile phone really is considered a necessity over here, and can also be status symbol. I have posted about this before - if you're interested you can take a look at my past posts.

  • Reply 27 of 39
    aiaaia Posts: 179member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by festerfeet View Post


    The main reason for this is that unlike most European countries, it is not possible to port numbers from one provider to another. This means that it is not uncommon for people to have two or more phones to keep numbers active nut to benefit from the strengths of different providers. It also explains why dual sim mobiles are popular over here.


     


    I have mentioned in previous posts that at lot of our Chinese staff have iPhones and iPads even though they are paid a much lower wage than what would be considered normal in Western countries. They are still paid the market rate for the region plus bonus so have a reasonable disposable income compared to their peers. It should also be noted that mobile phones are higher up the economic priority list for a lot of Chinese people.



     


    That's a good point - it is normal for business people here to have more than one mobile phone/number. China Mobile also has some of the cheapest pre-paid "plans", which would also explain their popularity.


     


    To give you an idea of the costs here: I myself am on China Mobile with a pre-paid account. I have signed up for a couple of monthly "packages" - for 5 RMB ($0.79 US)/month I get unlimited free incoming calls and outgoing calls at a reduced rate (I don't remember exactly what the rate is but it's around 0.25 RMB/minute which is $0.04 US/minute). For an additional 10 RMB ($1.57 US)/month, I get 30MB of 2G data.


     


    The low service rates explains why so many people here can afford to have a mobile phone - unlike in North America, the greatest cost is actually the phone (most people I know here change phones on a yearly basis).


     


    I will end this post by saying that the Chinese really know how to save - I know people here making a decent salary (for China - around $1000 US/month) who take the bus rather than the subway because the former is 1.2 RMB ($0.19 US) cheaper per trip! These savings then go towards the purchase of prestige items such as iPhones, iPads, cars, etc.

  • Reply 28 of 39

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Eduard View Post



    I couldn't disagree more! It seems that the balance for the new iOS 6 maps is positive for those who live in China. It may even sound credible if you stay in China and don not travel abroad, right?

    In fact, it is not right.

    In fact, is worse than it looks. All apps use iOS native maps; meaning that if you are using apps that provide any geopositioning ( eg. following friends through Latitude, having tracking utilities to recover lost devices, ....) abroad, you are left with nothing; and there is no way to solve that.

    Apple crippled so many useful apps!! (for those living in China)

    I am really disappointed. It happened again, before MobileMe and now this! And what is worse; it proves that customers are not in the center of Apple's strategy anymore!!

    The balance for iOS 6 new maps in China can not be a positive one; and -if you allow me to say so- that is what it seems from your post.


     

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    Latitude may be a problem but I don't have recent experience (I find it a little spooky but that is personal taste). Latitude access, like a lot of google services used to pretty spotty anyway, pretty much all Google apps are unreliable since they moved their servers to Japan unless you turn on your VPN. Google did have a licensing issues with maps and from what little I know about the situation, it does not seem that their service in China is going to improve without an about turn in a number of official policies and regulations (so probably quite a while) 


     


    Geo-positioning outside of China seems to work fine for the Chinese user, I have just managed to 'find a friend' in the UK and it seems to have found him exactly where I expected him to be. I have yet to test it overseas but will have that opportunity to do so over the weekend. 


    I can't agree with you regarding mobile me, that was a mess right from the start and should have been killed off earlier, it was useful to and used by a small percentage of IOS users because of it's limitations and idiosyncrasies. Apple made that decision it seems, only once it had deliberated the consequences and came up with something that it felt suited a wider audience of it's customers. It also gave those same users plenty of time to find other solutions and transfer across if they needed some of the features available from Mobile Me. 


     


    What I do find weird is that a colleague who has update his iPhone bought in the UK but located in China does not get the Navi maps but the Tom Tom maps of china which are very limited. Whereas my phone was from the states updated to IOS 6 on the same day, both from the UK app store and it has the same location settings as far as we can ascertain. That is just weird! 


     


     


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  • Reply 29 of 39
    aiaaia Posts: 179member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by festerfeet View Post


    What I do find weird is that a colleague who has update his iPhone bought in the UK but located in China does not get the Navi maps but the Tom Tom maps of china which are very limited. Whereas my phone was from the states updated to IOS 6 on the same day, both from the UK app store and it has the same location settings as far as we can ascertain. That is just weird! 

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    Are both of your phones using the same language settings?


     


    There was an interesting behaviour pre-iOS 5 - iPhones purchased in China were showing different maps data vs. iPhones purchased elsewhere. The most obvious was that all the map names were in Chinese (instead of English), however there were also some interesting differences regarding disputed territories. It turned out that iOS was using the hardware version to determine which maps data to use (in either case the data was still coming from Google), however some clever folks figured out how to force their jailbroken iPhones to use the international maps data.


     


    However, in iOS 5 the behaviour was changed so that the language setting was used to determine which maps data to use. This was a relief to many expats in China.

  • Reply 30 of 39

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AIA View Post


     


    Are both of your phones using the same language settings?


     


    There was an interesting behaviour pre-iOS 5 - iPhones purchased in China were showing different maps data vs. iPhones purchased elsewhere. The most obvious was that all the map names were in Chinese (instead of English), however there were also some interesting differences regarding disputed territories. It turned out that iOS was using the hardware version to determine which maps data to use (in either case the data was still coming from Google), however some clever folks figured out how to force their jailbroken iPhones to use the international maps data.


     


    However, in iOS 5 the behaviour was changed so that the language setting was used to determine which maps data to use. This was a relief to many expats in China.



     

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    Yep, both phones are using the same location and language settings, the only differences are one is a 4 the other is a 4s and one was from the US and the other from the UK. Both were updated over there air so couldn't have been affected by any settings on iTunes on our respective machines, we are at a loss to explain. My colleague is considering a reinstall but as his 5 is now in China and should be with him in a few days, I am not sure this is a priority for him unless the problem is duplicated in his 5 which once again was bought in the UK.   


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  • Reply 31 of 39
    aiaaia Posts: 179member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by festerfeet View Post


    Yep, both phones are using the same location and language settings, the only differences are one is a 4 the other is a 4s and one was from the US and the other from the UK. Both were updated over there air so couldn't have been affected by any settings on iTunes on our respective machines, we are at a loss to explain. My colleague is considering a reinstall but as his 5 is now in China and should be with him in a few days, I am not sure this is a priority for him unless the problem is duplicated in his 5 which once again was bought in the UK.   


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    That's odd, could you report back on how your friend's 5 behaves? I just updated my 3GS (HK) to iOS 6 and will try out the maps tonight and will report back. I will also try out my 5 (Canada) when I get it next week. My wife has a 4 (Canada), however I have not gotten around to upgrading it yet (she doesn't like it when I mess around with her phone).

  • Reply 32 of 39

    Quote:


    Citing an unnamed source, Wednesday's report said that integrating AutoNavi apps from China with other data from around the world would be an incredibly complex undertaking, which is why the detailed mapping data is restricted to China.



     


     


    Why would it be that difficult.  Surely it's not necessary to integrate both datasets, just to let AutoNavi handle everything inside China's territory and use TomTom for the rest.  What happened to using OpenStreetMap by the way.  It's licensed for iPhoto.  Wouldn't this be a quick way to integrate lots of data that Google doesn't currently have (such as public footpaths) that are much more important in European mapping.

  • Reply 33 of 39
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,319member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by webweasel View Post


     


     


    Why would it be that difficult.  Surely it's not necessary to integrate both datasets, just to let AutoNavi handle everything inside China's territory and use TomTom for the rest.  What happened to using OpenStreetMap by the way.  It's licensed for iPhoto.  Wouldn't this be a quick way to integrate lots of data that Google doesn't currently have (such as public footpaths) that are much more important in European mapping.



    FWIW TomTom also is partnered with AutoNavi in China. Apparently TT lacks the appropriate security clearance from Chinese officials to serve up mapping to Apple for that region, pushing Apple to deal with AutoNavi directly. With that said, there's reports of map issues in China that Autonavi is blaming on TomTom anyway. 


     


    "AutoNavi, the Chinese company that's providing Apple's maps for China and some other parts of Asia -- has been less quiet, though. It has responded to Chinese user complaints by saying that there is nothing wrong with the AutoNavi Maps product, and the reason for the issues people have experienced is that apparently, the upgrade to iOS 6 has caused some users to be unable to connect to the AutoNavi service. Their maps of China, then, are being served by Tomtom, and that's where the mistakes are coming from."


     



    1. Close the Maps app


    2. Set your system time to seven days in the future. (So if today is Sept. 25, set it for Oct. 2)


    3. Reset the phone


    4. Open Maps, if the Autonavi logo appears in the bottom right, you're all set.


     


     


    http://sg.finance.yahoo.com/news/chinas-autonavi-responds-apple-maps-161039686.html

  • Reply 34 of 39
    aiaaia Posts: 179member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AIA View Post


     


    That's odd, could you report back on how your friend's 5 behaves? I just updated my 3GS (HK) to iOS 6 and will try out the maps tonight and will report back. I will also try out my 5 (Canada) when I get it next week. My wife has a 4 (Canada), however I have not gotten around to upgrading it yet (she doesn't like it when I mess around with her phone).



     


    I checked with my 3GS (HK) running iOS 6, mine is using Autonavi data for China and there is no satellite data outside of China. Map data outside of China (at least for North America) is quite mediocre - in fact I just found and reported a problem with a mislabeled highway.

  • Reply 35 of 39
    aiaaia Posts: 179member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by webweasel View Post


    Why would it be that difficult.  Surely it's not necessary to integrate both datasets, just to let AutoNavi handle everything inside China's territory and use TomTom for the rest.  What happened to using OpenStreetMap by the way.  It's licensed for iPhoto.  Wouldn't this be a quick way to integrate lots of data that Google doesn't currently have (such as public footpaths) that are much more important in European mapping.



     


    I too don't see how it that would be difficult. In fact, I'm currently in China and when I click on the "Data from Autonavi, others" I can see that it's already getting maps data from other sources for Australia and New Zealand:


     


    http://gspa21.ls.apple.com/html/attribution.cn.html

  • Reply 36 of 39
    aiaaia Posts: 179member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    FWIW TomTom also is partnered with AutoNavi in China. Apparently TT lacks the appropriate security clearance from Chinese officials to serve up mapping to Apple for that region, pushing Apple to deal with AutoNavi directly. With that said, there's reports of map issues in China that Autonavi is blaming on TomTom anyway. 


     


    "AutoNavi, the Chinese company that's providing Apple's maps for China and some other parts of Asia -- has been less quiet, though. It has responded to Chinese user complaints by saying that there is nothing wrong with the AutoNavi Maps product, and the reason for the issues people have experienced is that apparently, the upgrade to iOS 6 has caused some users to be unable to connect to the AutoNavi service. Their maps of China, then, are being served by Tomtom, and that's where the mistakes are coming from."


     



    1. Close the Maps app


    2. Set your system time to seven days in the future. (So if today is Sept. 25, set it for Oct. 2)


    3. Reset the phone


    4. Open Maps, if the Autonavi logo appears in the bottom right, you're all set.


     


     


    http://sg.finance.yahoo.com/news/chinas-autonavi-responds-apple-maps-161039686.html



     


    This sounds like the problem that festerfest's friend is experiencing.

  • Reply 37 of 39
    What Drendel says about Google Maps ("...Google-powered Maps only shows the English translation.") is wrong. On my iOS 5 Maps app, using the English interface, place names for places in China are bilingual (Chinese/ English) and fully searcheable in either language. If I switch to the Chinese interface, place names in China are in Chinese only and place names outside China are represented either in a bilingual format (local language/ Chinese), or - if you drill down to street level - in the local language only. I like Google's integrated approach and hope that Apple's Maps app will develop into a similar integrated direction, notwithstanding the technical challenges involved.
  • Reply 38 of 39
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post





    Please keep your politics off this site. Should we know start a discussion of the number of innocent people executed in Texas?


     


     


    Or the over 30, 000 people convicted based on fraudulent evidence

  • Reply 39 of 39
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member


    Since there are expats here...did Apple ever make Baidu the default search engine in China as was rumored earlier this year? 


     


    My understanding is that the Baidu maps are pretty good and the navinfo dataset none too shabby.

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