So, essentially, Apple wasn't willing to negotiate anything, which proves me right, this was done for political reasons alone, not concern for the customers.
Sometimes it's better not to make a deal with the devil. Apple obviously decided that they had more to lose than gain from capitulating to Google's demands.
Apple made the right choice. It's better not to be held hostage.
That decision is a lost for Google Places advertisers and Google mobile ads future. Most people are using their phones to fine places (kind of a mobile yellow pages) so that's some 50 millions less ppc for Goolge.
There actually is a solution for this: buy velcro stickers and an iPad case; glue the stickers to your dashboard and case, and drop the iPad case on them. When you park, just remove the iPad and store it in the glovebox. You can use the lighter adapter to power the iPad, so it can stay always on displaying Google Maps, and you don't need to tap a button on the screen since you can center the screen in your current position and follow the blue line (or find your way back to it, or reset directions, if for some reason you miss an exit).
Aside from one little problem - that's illegal in many (if not most) jurisdictions. Blocking portions of the windshield (aside from a few inches around the edges) is a no-no. Not to mention incredibly unsafe.
So, essentially, Apple wasn't willing to negotiate anything, which proves me right, this was done for political reasons alone, not concern for the customers.
As usual, your hatred of Apple is making you irrational (or vice versa).
Where did it say that Apple refused to negotiate? It simply said that Apple would not agree to what Google asked. That's a VERY different matter.
Turn by turn on an iOS device is not that useful. Unless you have dedicated mounting brackets in your auto so that the device is more at eye level, using turn by turn and looking down at the device sitting on the passenger seat or holding your phone while driving is a dangerous habit to get into. Personally, I have built in navigation in all my autos so I don't need it at all. I can see a case for all vehicles having built in navigation within the next 5 years or so. Perhaps this new Apple Maps service is the precursor to striking a deal with auto makers to provide built in iOS devices in the cars..
I got this one for $20. Works perfectly with iP5 and is easily removable.
In general, there's some truth to that.
HOWEVER, when Apple refuses to license its core technologies, they're not screwing their own users. They're keeping the competition from getting Apple technologies. Google, OTOH, by refusing to release a good Maps app for iOS or license the technology to Apple is screwing their own users.
Besides which, Google didn't have to be Apple's competitor. Apple was apparently quite happy with partnering with Google until Google copied all of their technologies and set themselves up as a competitor (even though Google is apparently making less money than they would have if they had never gotten into the Android thing at all).
Essentially, Google invited a good friend over for dinner, stabbed him in the back and then said "I'm not going to help you because you're bleeding all over my living room".
Apple isn't totally innocent either. Their terms were too much for Google to accept. I don't believe Google set out to screw its iOS users they just preferred not to get screwed themselves.
Turn by turn on an iOS device is not that useful. Unless you have dedicated mounting brackets in your auto so that the device is more at eye level, using turn by turn and looking down at the device sitting on the passenger seat or holding your phone while driving is a dangerous habit to get into. Personally, I have built in navigation in all my autos so I don't need it at all. I can see a case for all vehicles having built in navigation within the next 5 years or so. Perhaps this new Apple Maps service is the precursor to striking a deal with auto makers to provide built in iOS devices in the cars..
It worked fine for me the other day. My phone was in my cup holder. Well, between the cups, in an extra space. First time I'd used navigation on phone or any other device.
Apple isn't totally innocent either. Their terms were too much for Google to accept. I don't believe Google set out to screw its iOS users they just preferred not to get screwed themselves.
I didn't say Apple was innocent. You see, unlike you, I don't express opinions on things when I don't have sufficient facts to reach a reasonable conclusion.
Since you're so sure Apple's terms were too much for Google to accept and Apple is not innocent, why don't you tell us exactly what terms Apple offered and exactly what terms Google wanted?
[" url="/t/152914/disagreements-over-turn-by-turn-directions-prompted-apple-to-ditch-google-maps/40#post_2199097"]Sometimes it's better not to make a deal with the devil. Apple obviously decided that they had more to lose than gain from capitulating to Google's demands.
Apple made the right choice. It's better not to be held hostage.
Would you allow someone to take credit for all your hard work?
Google Maps SUCKS on the iPhone. No turn by turn and you had to manually cycle waypoints. The Android solution was much nicer. Apple did GREAT pulling the plug on Google. Apple will continue to refine the maps and it will end up a killer solution. Rome wasn't built in a day and this is a big project. Apple will get it right. As it is now the turn by turn Nav is AWESOME and if we still had to rely on google maps as a solution we wouldn't have this. Google was screwing Apple and iOS users with a subpar product. Apple will fix that issue and give us what we deserve. Buh bye Google!!!!!! Get off my phone if you can't give me the BEST. I don't want a lesser than Android product. Buh bye. 100 million iPhone user no longer using Google maps.....YIKES!
I think we will end up seeing this as a brilliant strategic move by Apple. Google I'm sure was planning to gain as much leverage from maps as they could. By converting early, Apple caught google flat footed without an app, and gained a head start on improving their service and getting people to use it by default, for at least a few months. This will allow them to get their maps as close to google's by the time google releases it, so most people will likely not switch back. That is all Apple has to do to win this gambit, and I believe they will.
They will have a huge opportunity to prove themselves and leverage their huge user base to refine their system. If there was a google maps app from day 1 of apple maps, many more people would have used it instead, since they were familiar with it already. This gets users familiar with apple maps, and buys them time to improve and add additional features and integration ahead of google's release.
At the very least, I think this forces google to provide their best maps features with basically zero bargaining leverage, or else risk losing millions of users to Apple. And Apple can still protect users' privacy. But hopefully, they will be able to match and exceed google's offering soon.
Aside from one little problem - that's illegal in many (if not most) jurisdictions. Blocking portions of the windshield (aside from a few inches around the edges) is a no-no. Not to mention incredibly unsafe.
I don't see why you'd be required to block any parts of the windshield in order to do that; also, velcro is extremely resistant to coplanar forces.
As usual, your hatred of Apple is making you irrational (or vice versa).
Where did it say that Apple refused to negotiate? It simply said that Apple would not agree to what Google asked. That's a VERY different matter.
In the original article that you obviously did not read, so here's the quote below:
And if there were terms under which it might have agreed to do so, Apple wasn’t offering them. Sources tell AllThingsD that Google, for example, wanted more say in the iOS maps feature set. It wasn’t happy simply providing back-end data. It asked for in-app branding. Apple declined. It suggested adding Google Latitude. Again, Apple declined.
Don't call me a hater just because I do not adhere to your gullible fanboyism.
I'm honestly not sure who is being more unreasonable. A pox on both of them. I think Google shades Apple for the stupidity prize simply because of the penny-wise, pound-foolish attitude to exclusivity. What's really important is exclusivity of the crowd-sourced data and Google, unbelievably, forgot that in this case. They will regret it. Just like GLONASS with GPS, there's now a second player in town, only this time it comes with a huge amount of advertising dollars attached. I find it remarkable that Google would get so hung up on the end product that they'd forget to protect their basic business model like this.
Would also seem to suggest that Google, in positioning Android for wider acceptance vis-a-vie a competitive advantage, intentionally or unintentionally placed iPhone users in harms way during any driving activity.
I do not believe this. I mean, look, if Google ever make a Maps App for iOS, there will be turn-by-turn navigation. So, what's the point for google to hold it back? No point.
It's more believable that Apple axed the old Maps App because Google wants the data wired to them in a certain way and Apple thinks that'd give Google too much advantage. It's ok to axe it because of competitive reasons, I don't blame Apple. But I don't buy this turn-by-turn thing, and the facts will confirm what I said once Google finally releases a Maps App for iOS with turn-by-turn navigation.
Spoken turn by turn navigation can't have ad's. And that's why it isn't in Googles interest to support it on another platform.
On Android it's ok, because it attracts customers to Google (so they can see the ad's via other apps).
Now that Apple has spoken turn by turn navigation, Google probably will create a maps app that also includes this feature as a damage control measure.
HOWEVER, when Apple refuses to license its core technologies, they're not screwing their own users. They're keeping the competition from getting Apple technologies. Google, OTOH, by refusing to release a good Maps app for iOS or license the technology to Apple is screwing their own users.
Besides which, Google didn't have to be Apple's competitor. Apple was apparently quite happy with partnering with Google until Google copied all of their technologies and set themselves up as a competitor (even though Google is apparently making less money than they would have if they had never gotten into the Android thing at all).
Essentially, Google invited a good friend over for dinner, stabbed him in the back and then said "I'm not going to help you because you're bleeding all over my living room".
I do wish that Apple had partnered with Garmin instead of Tom Tom. Just a personal preference. Google was incredibly STUPID to not give iOS users turn by turn. Even if Google does a stand alone application with turn by turn and Apple accepts the application there is NO WAY I will install it or use it......I want a NATIVE solution as included in iOS and a Google band aid stand alone application is not acceptable to me.......so buh bye Google YOU BLEW IT!
I don't see why you'd be required to block any parts of the windshield in order to do that; also, velcro is extremely resistant to coplanar forces.
Sorry - you said to stick the iPad to the dashboard and I read it as windshield. That's still a safety problem because it takes your eyes off the road. And for most cars, if you can even find a place on the dashboard large enough for an iPad, it's pretty far from the driver.
In the original article that you obviously did not read, so here's the quote below:
Don't call me a hater just because I do not adhere to your gullible fanboyism.
Really? Read what the article says:
"And if there were terms under which it might have agreed to do so, Apple wasn’t offering them. Sources tell AllThingsD that Google, for example, wanted more say in the iOS maps feature set. It wasn’t happy simply providing back-end data. It asked for in-app branding. Apple declined. It suggested adding Google Latitude. Again, Apple declined."
Google asked for Apple to do something that Apple considered to be unreasonable. So how in the world do you conclude that it's all Apple's fault? And, more reasonably (although expecting reasonableness from you is like expecting pigs to fly), why in the world should Apple allow Google to control Apple's own products?
Google asked for Apple to do something that Apple considered to be unreasonable. So how in the world do you conclude that it's all Apple's fault? And, more reasonably (although expecting reasonableness from you is like expecting pigs to fly), why in the world should Apple allow Google to control Apple's own products?
Because, as stated in the article, Apple did not offer terms of their own, they just passive-aggressively refused everything Google suggested. Essentially, Apple wanted the feature without giving anything in return.
I didn't say Apple was innocent. You see, unlike you, I don't express opinions on things when I don't have sufficient facts to reach a reasonable conclusion.
Since you're so sure Apple's terms were too much for Google to accept and Apple is not innocent, why don't you tell us exactly what terms Apple offered and exactly what terms Google wanted?
You didn't say they were guilty either. You just insinuated that Google set out to deliberately screw it's iOS users. I don't know the exact terms but when was the last time Apple made an agreement that didn't heavily favor them?
By by google maps. I'm happy to be patient with Apple Map app and see where it goes. Very happy to have a free turn-by-turn navigation app that's Apple's own creation.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian
So, essentially, Apple wasn't willing to negotiate anything, which proves me right, this was done for political reasons alone, not concern for the customers.
Sometimes it's better not to make a deal with the devil. Apple obviously decided that they had more to lose than gain from capitulating to Google's demands.
Apple made the right choice. It's better not to be held hostage.
Aside from one little problem - that's illegal in many (if not most) jurisdictions. Blocking portions of the windshield (aside from a few inches around the edges) is a no-no. Not to mention incredibly unsafe.
As usual, your hatred of Apple is making you irrational (or vice versa).
Where did it say that Apple refused to negotiate? It simply said that Apple would not agree to what Google asked. That's a VERY different matter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Turn by turn on an iOS device is not that useful. Unless you have dedicated mounting brackets in your auto so that the device is more at eye level, using turn by turn and looking down at the device sitting on the passenger seat or holding your phone while driving is a dangerous habit to get into. Personally, I have built in navigation in all my autos so I don't need it at all. I can see a case for all vehicles having built in navigation within the next 5 years or so. Perhaps this new Apple Maps service is the precursor to striking a deal with auto makers to provide built in iOS devices in the cars..
I got this one for $20. Works perfectly with iP5 and is easily removable.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007FHX9OK/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i01
Apple isn't totally innocent either. Their terms were too much for Google to accept. I don't believe Google set out to screw its iOS users they just preferred not to get screwed themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Turn by turn on an iOS device is not that useful. Unless you have dedicated mounting brackets in your auto so that the device is more at eye level, using turn by turn and looking down at the device sitting on the passenger seat or holding your phone while driving is a dangerous habit to get into. Personally, I have built in navigation in all my autos so I don't need it at all. I can see a case for all vehicles having built in navigation within the next 5 years or so. Perhaps this new Apple Maps service is the precursor to striking a deal with auto makers to provide built in iOS devices in the cars..
It worked fine for me the other day. My phone was in my cup holder. Well, between the cups, in an extra space. First time I'd used navigation on phone or any other device.
It worked out great!
P
I didn't say Apple was innocent. You see, unlike you, I don't express opinions on things when I don't have sufficient facts to reach a reasonable conclusion.
Since you're so sure Apple's terms were too much for Google to accept and Apple is not innocent, why don't you tell us exactly what terms Apple offered and exactly what terms Google wanted?
Would you allow someone to take credit for all your hard work?
They will have a huge opportunity to prove themselves and leverage their huge user base to refine their system. If there was a google maps app from day 1 of apple maps, many more people would have used it instead, since they were familiar with it already. This gets users familiar with apple maps, and buys them time to improve and add additional features and integration ahead of google's release.
At the very least, I think this forces google to provide their best maps features with basically zero bargaining leverage, or else risk losing millions of users to Apple. And Apple can still protect users' privacy. But hopefully, they will be able to match and exceed google's offering soon.
I don't see why you'd be required to block any parts of the windshield in order to do that; also, velcro is extremely resistant to coplanar forces.
In the original article that you obviously did not read, so here's the quote below:
Don't call me a hater just because I do not adhere to your gullible fanboyism.
Spoken turn by turn navigation can't have ad's. And that's why it isn't in Googles interest to support it on another platform.
On Android it's ok, because it attracts customers to Google (so they can see the ad's via other apps).
Now that Apple has spoken turn by turn navigation, Google probably will create a maps app that also includes this feature as a damage control measure.
J.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
In general, there's some truth to that.
HOWEVER, when Apple refuses to license its core technologies, they're not screwing their own users. They're keeping the competition from getting Apple technologies. Google, OTOH, by refusing to release a good Maps app for iOS or license the technology to Apple is screwing their own users.
Besides which, Google didn't have to be Apple's competitor. Apple was apparently quite happy with partnering with Google until Google copied all of their technologies and set themselves up as a competitor (even though Google is apparently making less money than they would have if they had never gotten into the Android thing at all).
Essentially, Google invited a good friend over for dinner, stabbed him in the back and then said "I'm not going to help you because you're bleeding all over my living room".
Good point.
I do wish that Apple had partnered with Garmin instead of Tom Tom. Just a personal preference. Google was incredibly STUPID to not give iOS users turn by turn. Even if Google does a stand alone application with turn by turn and Apple accepts the application there is NO WAY I will install it or use it......I want a NATIVE solution as included in iOS and a Google band aid stand alone application is not acceptable to me.......so buh bye Google YOU BLEW IT!
Sorry - you said to stick the iPad to the dashboard and I read it as windshield. That's still a safety problem because it takes your eyes off the road. And for most cars, if you can even find a place on the dashboard large enough for an iPad, it's pretty far from the driver.
Really? Read what the article says:
"And if there were terms under which it might have agreed to do so, Apple wasn’t offering them. Sources tell AllThingsD that Google, for example, wanted more say in the iOS maps feature set. It wasn’t happy simply providing back-end data. It asked for in-app branding. Apple declined. It suggested adding Google Latitude. Again, Apple declined."
Google asked for Apple to do something that Apple considered to be unreasonable. So how in the world do you conclude that it's all Apple's fault? And, more reasonably (although expecting reasonableness from you is like expecting pigs to fly), why in the world should Apple allow Google to control Apple's own products?
Because, as stated in the article, Apple did not offer terms of their own, they just passive-aggressively refused everything Google suggested. Essentially, Apple wanted the feature without giving anything in return.
You didn't say they were guilty either. You just insinuated that Google set out to deliberately screw it's iOS users. I don't know the exact terms but when was the last time Apple made an agreement that didn't heavily favor them?