...pointless how? I actually want one... the current ipad is too heavy/bulky for me but I want iOS and not so half-baked version of android. It being cheaper wouldnt hurt too. So, once again, how is it pointless?
so ipad mini will be exactly like that. I believe it 100% since most rumors match almost 99% for real product. I will pass it. I preordered ipod touch 5th Gen. so I don't need the damn thing.
It would be great except no Retina screen = pass for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagamer34
The iPad Mini might be worth it if it had a retina screen, otherwise pass... I don't honestly see how they could sell an iPad with a 1024x768 low quality screen these days when it's clear the march to Retina is where it's at.
Retina display on an entry level low end product? You must be kidding... maybe in 2 years but not in 2012 or 2013.
If it's a tablet then the top is the most logical place to put the headphone jack. You can easily drape the cord behind the device. However if you use it in portrait and rest the bottom on your stomach when you sit and read, a protruding plug would make it rather bothersome to use. Yes, some of us use the iPad in portrait.
The mockup is moderately well made, though. Shame the camera's focus is broken and they didn't think to check that before uploading.
I have to agree with Tallest Skill on this. I have spent months wondering what I would use a smaller iPad for and whether or not I would purchase one given the availability to do so.
After months of thought, I would be stunned if Apple did release this product. Unfortunately because it's such an upheld rumor and the "market" (Wall Street) has blown the entire idea out of proportion it may still be released.
I can see only three legitimate reasons to release such a product.
The first would be to cater to the small minority who claim they would purchase an iPad if it were smaller. These same people mentioned that they would prefer that it be lighter (apparently they don't exercise AT ALL) and want it to fit into some type of pocket.
1.a) I'm sure that a small community does exists that actually would prefer this product, as does any product.
1.b) At what point does light seem strange. If I (girl/woman) can read lying in bed holding the iPad above my face and having it seem like a paperback. It would be strange. Not "magical" as Apple likes to say, just strange. There's a certain expected 'resistance'. I'm sure the current iPad could be a little lighter for this certain case use, but smaller also? Not really. You end up with the result of losing too much and gaining too little on a smaller device. --- also I do enjoy myself when I read a post that the current iPad is too heavy. While I believe Darwin was wrong (only because he didn't have all rhe 'current' facts during his age). I certainly wouldn't pick a male who couldn't hold an iPad.
1.c) This is very relative. What type of pocket would a person like their devise to fit in. I have seen many arguments on this site that one device vs. another device could fit into a woman's purse. However even a 7.85" iPad would not fit into a clutch bag, leave little room in a purse (although wildly defined). Also if a woman is putting such a device into a tote bag, it had better be covered by an "Otter Box" type solution because you will not be able to read it after a week or two!
1.c.a) I have worn and do wear lab coats. Many people on this site like to use a lab coat as an example. I suspect the same people who like to use lab coats as an example have only seen, but have never actually worn a lab coat. Even though we wear lab coats there is still a quasi fashion statement. There's always the odd guy (read: the really weird) but as a whole, no one really fills that pocket with a giant square. Especially if you exercise and are proud of your curves. This is also true for guys! Some guys say they never wear a wallet because their butts look weird. Fashion aside, let's move on to two.
The second would be the "Market's" expectation of a device to answer the supposed threat from all of the other 7" tablets retailing at present.
2.) unfortunately this will hurt either way. The stock price is built in with the expectation of a small iPad launch at this point. There are proponents on either side so depending on their views the stock will go up or down whether they release this or not. (Yeah, you'll tell me "no duh!"). I've done we'll on stocks, but this one is a definite hard call.
The third would be to introduce people who are familiar with that form size into the Apple ecosystem.
3.) This one is the only approach I could see for Apple regarding what you folk call "form factor". If there are so many of these 7" tablets being used, then make one (that 7" form factor people would buy, at their price point) to get people used to the ecosystem.
3.a) In my opinion this would be the ultimate brand downgrade. First off on this respect, not so many of these tablets are being used. This is an axiom (sorry sol). I'm not sure what these 7" tablets are being used for, but it's very apparent they are not being used for what a tablet was indeed designed for. The only unequivocal use case scenario is that they are all being used for reading 'books' or listening to music. I highlight 'books' because we should slowly see this word phased out. Apparently they are not even viewing the so called "web".
In conclusion, I believe in Tallest's thoughts on the mini iPad. It does have some uses, but not enough to justify basically shrinking the current iPad. I see a small use case scenario for a small iPad. I also believe that if this device is released it would be 'market' based and not 'Apple' based. 'Market' meaning stocks.
My statements,
I believe there should be a larger iPad. Double the current size. (Retina display only) I also believe the OS does actually need to change for the iPad device inverse of the iphone if indeed this is the form that's going to ring in the future of computing. People love to quote Moores Law, however mobile devices have superseded that in the past few years. Think of a double sized iPad with an actual operating system. By mentioning "actual operating system" I do not infer file subsystem acces. The fact that the iPhone 5 feels lighter than it should means to me that the next iPad should be much more capable.
It also hurt me to read negative posts against people who proposed splitting the OS from iPad and iPhone. It was already split. Just develope the iPad more. To those people I ask, So when you download the new OS right from the source and you have to specify the device... You really didn't think it was already splintered off? Really?...
I think you folk call this a wish list... I believe the iPad should have a double sized order option. With a workable double (meaning dual screen on the same screen, if doubled) screen multitask. Please let us get rid of the grid! Maybe I'll start a "Rid the Grid" campaign.
Disclaimer: my beliefs are probably far from yours. I accept that. Hopefully you will also.
The iPad Mini might be worth it if it had a retina screen, otherwise pass... I don't honestly see how they could sell an iPad with a 1024x768 low quality screen these days when it's clear the march to Retina is where it's at.
I give your "alter-ego" more credibility. Why post... or why post under this name?
I have to agree with Tallest Skill on this. I have spent months wondering what I would use a smaller iPad for and whether or not I would purchase one given the availability to do so.
After months of thought, I would be stunned if Apple did release this product. Unfortunately because it's such an upheld rumor and the "market" (Wall Street) has blown the entire idea out of proportion it may still be released.
I can see only three legitimate reasons to release such a product.
You missed the big one:
One size does not fit all. Apple offers multiple sizes of MacBook Airs. They offer multiple sizes of MacBook Pros. They offer multiple sizes of iMacs. They offer multiple sizes of iPods. Just why is the idea of two sizes of iPads getting so much resistance?
I'm really having a hard time figuring out why the opposition is so strong. Apple apps work on a 3.5" device. They work on a 10" device. The idea that they wouldn't work on a 7-8" device is just ludicrous.
Even for myself, I can see places where a 7-8" iPad would be a great idea. For example, I would use one to watch movies on long flights. For that purpose, I think the 10" is too big and the iPhone is too small.
In addition, it's a matter of market positioning. A lot of people are buying 7" devices - and Apple is losing most of them (only the small number who can be convinced to move up to 10" iPad remain in Apple's hands). Failure to offer a smaller tablet gives Apple's competition a free foot in the door.
Finally, look at the numbers. While it's true that Apple has something like 60% of the tablet sales, if you look at current 7" tablet sales, it looks like there are at least as many 7" tablets being sold as Apple sold of 10" tablets in its first year. So if the market was big enough to launch the 10" iPad a few years ago, it should be big enough to launch a smaller iPad today.
I haven't seen a single good reason for them NOT to do it. There are only 2 reasons I've seen and neither makes any sense:
1. "Apple won't sell a crappy product". While that's true, it's irrelevant. It assumes that simply because other 7" tablets are crap that Apple's would be. Clearly, that's not true. Since Apple makes a great 3.5" product and a great 10" product, why the assumption that they can't make a great 7" product?
2. "It's too small". To some extent, that's a matter of personal opinion, but if the UI works on a 3.5" device and on a 10" device, just what logic says that a 7-8" device is too small?
I don't know for sure that they'll release one, of course, but I haven't seen a single good reason not to - and plenty of good reasons why they should.
You missed the big one:
One size does not fit all. Apple offers multiple sizes of MacBook Airs. They offer multiple sizes of MacBook Pros. They offer multiple sizes of iMacs. They offer multiple sizes of iPods. Just why is the idea of two sizes of iPads getting so much resistance?
I'm really having a hard time figuring out why the opposition is so strong. Apple apps work on a 3.5" device. They work on a 10" device. The idea that they wouldn't work on a 7-8" device is just ludicrous.
Even for myself, I can see places where a 7-8" iPad would be a great idea. For example, I would use one to watch movies on long flights. For that purpose, I think the 10" is too big and the iPhone is too small.
In addition, it's a matter of market positioning. A lot of people are buying 7" devices - and Apple is losing most of them (only the small number who can be convinced to move up to 10" iPad remain in Apple's hands). Failure to offer a smaller tablet gives Apple's competition a free foot in the door.
Finally, look at the numbers. While it's true that Apple has something like 60% of the tablet sales, if you look at current 7" tablet sales, it looks like there are at least as many 7" tablets being sold as Apple sold of 10" tablets in its first year. So if the market was big enough to launch the 10" iPad a few years ago, it should be big enough to launch a smaller iPad today.
I haven't seen a single good reason for them NOT to do it. There are only 2 reasons I've seen and neither makes any sense:
1. "Apple won't sell a crappy product". While that's true, it's irrelevant. It assumes that simply because other 7" tablets are crap that Apple's would be. Clearly, that's not true. Since Apple makes a great 3.5" product and a great 10" product, why the assumption that they can't make a great 7" product?
2. "It's too small". To some extent, that's a matter of personal opinion, but if the UI works on a 3.5" device and on a 10" device, just what logic says that a 7-8" device is too small?
I don't know for sure that they'll release one, of course, but I haven't seen a single good reason not to - and plenty of good reasons why they should.
Personally I think the biggest proponents for a iPad mini that rally behind the "more portable" argument will buy it in droves. And I think they are the ones that will be most disappointed with it.
I just truly feel that a iPad Mini is not significantly more portable than a regular iPad. I have stated this in previous posts that if you can't consistently put it in pants pocket then it is not portable. If the device requires you to alter. Your wardrobe habits in any way then it is not more portable. This applies to everyone.
If you wear a suit coat everyday, bully for you, but you are not a majority.
But I have a purse you say, bully for you, but you are only half the population.
Basically in most everyday cases it would need the same type of case or bag.
I have a small bag that I carry not only my iPad, but every conceivable cable, adaptor and even a pico projector.
... 2. "It's too small". To some extent, that's a matter of personal opinion, but if the UI works on a 3.5" device and on a 10" device, just what logic says that a 7-8" device is too small?
I don't know for sure that they'll release one, of course, but I haven't seen a single good reason not to - and plenty of good reasons why they should.
The UI does not work on 3.5/4" and on 10" devices. One UI works on 3.5/4" devices, another UI on 10", they aren't the same UI, they don't follow the same UI design principles. iPad apps and iPhone apps do not use the same UI's, even though they may use the same UI elements (except for the ones that only exist on one target). Pages and Numbers are built from the same UI elements, but they don't have the same UI. Most apps, and probably all the ones successful on both iPhone and iPad, have different UI's for each platform, even when they are universal apps.
...pointless how? I actually want one... the current ipad is too heavy/bulky for me but I want iOS and not so half-baked version of android. It being cheaper wouldnt hurt too. So, once again, how is it pointless?
Exactly!! It will be a good product to take along with you because of the smaller size. If I was to use an iPad only around the home I would get the larger version.
Since it isn't even out yet how would you know if it is a "terrible" product!? /s
I'm glad you're being sarcasic here; now I don't have to answer since I know you share my views.
You always say crap like this when anyone else comments on a not released product......funny to see you do the same thing.
Indeed, I've said that when people have had reservations about potential or announce Apple products, and truly I will reserve final judgement should it exist until I get the darn thing in my hand, but…
I've used 7" tablets. I've seen 7" tablets. I've run their software, I've held them, I've typed, I've played. I can see why some people think they have a purpose, if niche. I can see why some people think they'd want one. But they're not portable enough, they're not powerful enough, and they're not large enough to be versatile in the right ways. Everything an iPad does would be done worse on a smaller device still called a tablet. From reading to games to browsing to utilities. Sometime I think I'll mock up some UI and explain with fervor.
Originally Posted by jragosta
One size does not fit all.
I think that we can agree that there is a minimum and a maximum usable size for any one product. Do you concur?
Originally Posted by anonymouse
The UI does not work on 3.5/4" and on 10" devices. One UI works on 3.5/4" devices, another UI on 10", they aren't the same UI, they don't follow the same UI design principles. iPad apps and iPhone apps do not use the same UI's, even though they may use the same UI elements (except for the ones that only exist on one target). Pages and Numbers are built from the same UI elements, but they don't have the same UI. Most apps, and probably all the ones successful on both iPhone and iPad, have different UI's for each platform, even when they are universal apps.
To play "pointless' advocate", I've heard talk that a retina iDevice at the 7.85" size would have appropriate button sizes and that this isn't a concern.
I don't buy that, necessarily, and I haven't seen enough mockups to convince me, not to mention the actual usability of the device and other software at that size, but still.
Thirty-four posts and not one reference to the real market for this device, if they do it: kids and education.
Secondarily, people who travel light. Jackets and lab coats will be sold to accommodate it, especially once they put a retina screen on the second generation.
To play "pointless' advocate", I've heard talk that a retina iDevice at the 7.85" size would have appropriate button sizes and that this isn't a concern.
I don't buy that, necessarily, and I haven't seen enough mockups to convince me, not to mention the actual usability of the device and other software at that size, but still.
So you admit that it IS possible to make a smaller iPad that wouldn't have the usability concerns you've been raving about, yet you've been ranting and raving about the product without any facts.
So you admit that it IS possible to make a smaller iPad that wouldn't have the usability concerns you've been raving about, yet you've been ranting and raving about the product without any facts.
No, I explicitly stated otherwise. Try reading, please.
Personally I think the biggest proponents for a iPad mini that rally behind the "more portable" argument will buy it in droves. And I think they are the ones that will be most disappointed with it.
I just truly feel that a iPad Mini is not significantly more portable than a regular iPad. I have stated this in previous posts that if you can't consistently put it in pants pocket then it is not portable. If the device requires you to alter. Your wardrobe habits in any way then it is not more portable. This applies to everyone.
Since at this point it's vaporware, no one outside of Apple's most trusted knows if it's real and what the actual dimensions are. A 7" tablet will fit just fine in my back pocket, much easier than the B&N Nook which also will tho snugly. There's no reason that that if Apple chooses to release a smaller iPad that it's would have to be so large it wouldn't be looked at as more portable and convenient to carry than the current one by new buyers. If portability is the highest priority for Apple I've no doubt they'll make it so.
I have to agree with Tallest Skill on this. I have spent months wondering what I would use a smaller iPad for and whether or not I would purchase one given the availability to do so.
After months of thought, I would be stunned if Apple did release this product. Unfortunately because it's such an upheld rumor and the "market" (Wall Street) has blown the entire idea out of proportion it may still be released.
I can see only three legitimate reasons to release such a product.
The first would be to cater to the small minority who claim they would purchase an iPad if it were smaller. These same people mentioned that they would prefer that it be lighter (apparently they don't exercise AT ALL) and want it to fit into some type of pocket.
1.a) I'm sure that a small community does exists that actually would prefer this product, as does any product.
1.b) At what point does light seem strange. If I (girl/woman) can read lying in bed holding the iPad above my face and having it seem like a paperback. It would be strange. Not "magical" as Apple likes to say, just strange. There's a certain expected 'resistance'. I'm sure the current iPad could be a little lighter for this certain case use, but smaller also? Not really. You end up with the result of losing too much and gaining too little on a smaller device. --- also I do enjoy myself when I read a post that the current iPad is too heavy. While I believe Darwin was wrong (only because he didn't have all rhe 'current' facts during his age). I certainly wouldn't pick a male who couldn't hold an iPad.
1.c) This is very relative. What type of pocket would a person like their devise to fit in. I have seen many arguments on this site that one device vs. another device could fit into a woman's purse. However even a 7.85" iPad would not fit into a clutch bag, leave little room in a purse (although wildly defined). Also if a woman is putting such a device into a tote bag, it had better be covered by an "Otter Box" type solution because you will not be able to read it after a week or two!
1.c.a) I have worn and do wear lab coats. Many people on this site like to use a lab coat as an example. I suspect the same people who like to use lab coats as an example have only seen, but have never actually worn a lab coat. Even though we wear lab coats there is still a quasi fashion statement. There's always the odd guy (read: the really weird) but as a whole, no one really fills that pocket with a giant square. Especially if you exercise and are proud of your curves. This is also true for guys! Some guys say they never wear a wallet because their butts look weird. Fashion aside, let's move on to two.
The second would be the "Market's" expectation of a device to answer the supposed threat from all of the other 7" tablets retailing at present.
2.) unfortunately this will hurt either way. The stock price is built in with the expectation of a small iPad launch at this point. There are proponents on either side so depending on their views the stock will go up or down whether they release this or not. (Yeah, you'll tell me "no duh!"). I've done we'll on stocks, but this one is a definite hard call.
The third would be to introduce people who are familiar with that form size into the Apple ecosystem.
3.) This one is the only approach I could see for Apple regarding what you folk call "form factor". If there are so many of these 7" tablets being used, then make one (that 7" form factor people would buy, at their price point) to get people used to the ecosystem.
3.a) In my opinion this would be the ultimate brand downgrade. First off on this respect, not so many of these tablets are being used. This is an axiom (sorry sol). I'm not sure what these 7" tablets are being used for, but it's very apparent they are not being used for what a tablet was indeed designed for. The only unequivocal use case scenario is that they are all being used for reading 'books' or listening to music. I highlight 'books' because we should slowly see this word phased out. Apparently they are not even viewing the so called "web".
In conclusion, I believe in Tallest's thoughts on the mini iPad. It does have some uses, but not enough to justify basically shrinking the current iPad. I see a small use case scenario for a small iPad. I also believe that if this device is released it would be 'market' based and not 'Apple' based. 'Market' meaning stocks.
My statements,
I believe there should be a larger iPad. Double the current size. (Retina display only) I also believe the OS does actually need to change for the iPad device inverse of the iphone if indeed this is the form that's going to ring in the future of computing. People love to quote Moores Law, however mobile devices have superseded that in the past few years. Think of a double sized iPad with an actual operating system. By mentioning "actual operating system" I do not infer file subsystem acces. The fact that the iPhone 5 feels lighter than it should means to me that the next iPad should be much more capable.
It also hurt me to read negative posts against people who proposed splitting the OS from iPad and iPhone. It was already split. Just develope the iPad more. To those people I ask, So when you download the new OS right from the source and you have to specify the device... You really didn't think it was already splintered off? Really?...
I think you folk call this a wish list... I believe the iPad should have a double sized order option. With a workable double (meaning dual screen on the same screen, if doubled) screen multitask. Please let us get rid of the grid! Maybe I'll start a "Rid the Grid" campaign.
Disclaimer: my beliefs are probably far from yours. I accept that. Hopefully you will also.
I agree wholeheartedly with your opinion on the form factor, however I believe price is the main driver of the pundits calling for a smaller iPad. The companies that produce these smaller tablets sell them at a cheaper price, and justifiably so. While actual sales numbers are hard to come by, supposedly they sell "in the millions" and say Apple is missing out on a sizable market share. "Sizable" being the key word here, as no one seems to know exactly how to quantify that term. I don't understand why Apple would want to downgrade the iOS experience by producing a tablet that will be lacking the complete feature set (display, speed etc) to satisfy an unquantified user base. Not saying there is not market for such a device, just that no one knows just how large that market is. People are cheap, no matter what they like to say on these forums about Apple users buying more apps and paying more for Apple quality. If that same 7 inch tablet cost as much as 9.7 inch iPad, how many people would buy it for the smaller form factor so they could "fit it into a pocket". Not many I'd wager.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagamer34
It would be great except no Retina screen = pass for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagamer34
The iPad Mini might be worth it if it had a retina screen, otherwise pass... I don't honestly see how they could sell an iPad with a 1024x768 low quality screen these days when it's clear the march to Retina is where it's at.
Retina display on an entry level low end product? You must be kidding... maybe in 2 years but not in 2012 or 2013.
If it's a tablet then the top is the most logical place to put the headphone jack. You can easily drape the cord behind the device. However if you use it in portrait and rest the bottom on your stomach when you sit and read, a protruding plug would make it rather bothersome to use. Yes, some of us use the iPad in portrait.
I have to agree with Tallest Skill on this. I have spent months wondering what I would use a smaller iPad for and whether or not I would purchase one given the availability to do so.
After months of thought, I would be stunned if Apple did release this product. Unfortunately because it's such an upheld rumor and the "market" (Wall Street) has blown the entire idea out of proportion it may still be released.
I can see only three legitimate reasons to release such a product.
The first would be to cater to the small minority who claim they would purchase an iPad if it were smaller. These same people mentioned that they would prefer that it be lighter (apparently they don't exercise AT ALL) and want it to fit into some type of pocket.
1.a) I'm sure that a small community does exists that actually would prefer this product, as does any product.
1.b) At what point does light seem strange. If I (girl/woman) can read lying in bed holding the iPad above my face and having it seem like a paperback. It would be strange. Not "magical" as Apple likes to say, just strange. There's a certain expected 'resistance'. I'm sure the current iPad could be a little lighter for this certain case use, but smaller also? Not really. You end up with the result of losing too much and gaining too little on a smaller device. --- also I do enjoy myself when I read a post that the current iPad is too heavy. While I believe Darwin was wrong (only because he didn't have all rhe 'current' facts during his age). I certainly wouldn't pick a male who couldn't hold an iPad.
1.c) This is very relative. What type of pocket would a person like their devise to fit in. I have seen many arguments on this site that one device vs. another device could fit into a woman's purse. However even a 7.85" iPad would not fit into a clutch bag, leave little room in a purse (although wildly defined). Also if a woman is putting such a device into a tote bag, it had better be covered by an "Otter Box" type solution because you will not be able to read it after a week or two!
1.c.a) I have worn and do wear lab coats. Many people on this site like to use a lab coat as an example. I suspect the same people who like to use lab coats as an example have only seen, but have never actually worn a lab coat. Even though we wear lab coats there is still a quasi fashion statement. There's always the odd guy (read: the really weird) but as a whole, no one really fills that pocket with a giant square. Especially if you exercise and are proud of your curves. This is also true for guys! Some guys say they never wear a wallet because their butts look weird. Fashion aside, let's move on to two.
The second would be the "Market's" expectation of a device to answer the supposed threat from all of the other 7" tablets retailing at present.
2.) unfortunately this will hurt either way. The stock price is built in with the expectation of a small iPad launch at this point. There are proponents on either side so depending on their views the stock will go up or down whether they release this or not. (Yeah, you'll tell me "no duh!"). I've done we'll on stocks, but this one is a definite hard call.
The third would be to introduce people who are familiar with that form size into the Apple ecosystem.
3.) This one is the only approach I could see for Apple regarding what you folk call "form factor". If there are so many of these 7" tablets being used, then make one (that 7" form factor people would buy, at their price point) to get people used to the ecosystem.
3.a) In my opinion this would be the ultimate brand downgrade. First off on this respect, not so many of these tablets are being used. This is an axiom (sorry sol). I'm not sure what these 7" tablets are being used for, but it's very apparent they are not being used for what a tablet was indeed designed for. The only unequivocal use case scenario is that they are all being used for reading 'books' or listening to music. I highlight 'books' because we should slowly see this word phased out. Apparently they are not even viewing the so called "web".
In conclusion, I believe in Tallest's thoughts on the mini iPad. It does have some uses, but not enough to justify basically shrinking the current iPad. I see a small use case scenario for a small iPad. I also believe that if this device is released it would be 'market' based and not 'Apple' based. 'Market' meaning stocks.
My statements,
I believe there should be a larger iPad. Double the current size. (Retina display only) I also believe the OS does actually need to change for the iPad device inverse of the iphone if indeed this is the form that's going to ring in the future of computing. People love to quote Moores Law, however mobile devices have superseded that in the past few years. Think of a double sized iPad with an actual operating system. By mentioning "actual operating system" I do not infer file subsystem acces. The fact that the iPhone 5 feels lighter than it should means to me that the next iPad should be much more capable.
It also hurt me to read negative posts against people who proposed splitting the OS from iPad and iPhone. It was already split. Just develope the iPad more. To those people I ask, So when you download the new OS right from the source and you have to specify the device... You really didn't think it was already splintered off? Really?...
I think you folk call this a wish list... I believe the iPad should have a double sized order option. With a workable double (meaning dual screen on the same screen, if doubled) screen multitask. Please let us get rid of the grid! Maybe I'll start a "Rid the Grid" campaign.
Disclaimer: my beliefs are probably far from yours. I accept that. Hopefully you will also.
I give your "alter-ego" more credibility. Why post... or why post under this name?
You missed the big one:
One size does not fit all. Apple offers multiple sizes of MacBook Airs. They offer multiple sizes of MacBook Pros. They offer multiple sizes of iMacs. They offer multiple sizes of iPods. Just why is the idea of two sizes of iPads getting so much resistance?
I'm really having a hard time figuring out why the opposition is so strong. Apple apps work on a 3.5" device. They work on a 10" device. The idea that they wouldn't work on a 7-8" device is just ludicrous.
Even for myself, I can see places where a 7-8" iPad would be a great idea. For example, I would use one to watch movies on long flights. For that purpose, I think the 10" is too big and the iPhone is too small.
In addition, it's a matter of market positioning. A lot of people are buying 7" devices - and Apple is losing most of them (only the small number who can be convinced to move up to 10" iPad remain in Apple's hands). Failure to offer a smaller tablet gives Apple's competition a free foot in the door.
Finally, look at the numbers. While it's true that Apple has something like 60% of the tablet sales, if you look at current 7" tablet sales, it looks like there are at least as many 7" tablets being sold as Apple sold of 10" tablets in its first year. So if the market was big enough to launch the 10" iPad a few years ago, it should be big enough to launch a smaller iPad today.
I haven't seen a single good reason for them NOT to do it. There are only 2 reasons I've seen and neither makes any sense:
1. "Apple won't sell a crappy product". While that's true, it's irrelevant. It assumes that simply because other 7" tablets are crap that Apple's would be. Clearly, that's not true. Since Apple makes a great 3.5" product and a great 10" product, why the assumption that they can't make a great 7" product?
2. "It's too small". To some extent, that's a matter of personal opinion, but if the UI works on a 3.5" device and on a 10" device, just what logic says that a 7-8" device is too small?
I don't know for sure that they'll release one, of course, but I haven't seen a single good reason not to - and plenty of good reasons why they should.
Personally I think the biggest proponents for a iPad mini that rally behind the "more portable" argument will buy it in droves. And I think they are the ones that will be most disappointed with it.
I just truly feel that a iPad Mini is not significantly more portable than a regular iPad. I have stated this in previous posts that if you can't consistently put it in pants pocket then it is not portable. If the device requires you to alter. Your wardrobe habits in any way then it is not more portable. This applies to everyone.
If you wear a suit coat everyday, bully for you, but you are not a majority.
But I have a purse you say, bully for you, but you are only half the population.
Basically in most everyday cases it would need the same type of case or bag.
I have a small bag that I carry not only my iPad, but every conceivable cable, adaptor and even a pico projector.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
... 2. "It's too small". To some extent, that's a matter of personal opinion, but if the UI works on a 3.5" device and on a 10" device, just what logic says that a 7-8" device is too small?
I don't know for sure that they'll release one, of course, but I haven't seen a single good reason not to - and plenty of good reasons why they should.
The UI does not work on 3.5/4" and on 10" devices. One UI works on 3.5/4" devices, another UI on 10", they aren't the same UI, they don't follow the same UI design principles. iPad apps and iPhone apps do not use the same UI's, even though they may use the same UI elements (except for the ones that only exist on one target). Pages and Numbers are built from the same UI elements, but they don't have the same UI. Most apps, and probably all the ones successful on both iPhone and iPad, have different UI's for each platform, even when they are universal apps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by msalganik
...pointless how? I actually want one... the current ipad is too heavy/bulky for me but I want iOS and not so half-baked version of android. It being cheaper wouldnt hurt too. So, once again, how is it pointless?
Exactly!! It will be a good product to take along with you because of the smaller size. If I was to use an iPad only around the home I would get the larger version.
I'll take two please!!!
Originally Posted by faZZter
Since it isn't even out yet how would you know if it is a "terrible" product!? /s
I'm glad you're being sarcasic here; now I don't have to answer since I know you share my views.
You always say crap like this when anyone else comments on a not released product......funny to see you do the same thing.
Indeed, I've said that when people have had reservations about potential or announce Apple products, and truly I will reserve final judgement should it exist until I get the darn thing in my hand, but…
I've used 7" tablets. I've seen 7" tablets. I've run their software, I've held them, I've typed, I've played. I can see why some people think they have a purpose, if niche. I can see why some people think they'd want one. But they're not portable enough, they're not powerful enough, and they're not large enough to be versatile in the right ways. Everything an iPad does would be done worse on a smaller device still called a tablet. From reading to games to browsing to utilities. Sometime I think I'll mock up some UI and explain with fervor.
Originally Posted by jragosta
One size does not fit all.
I think that we can agree that there is a minimum and a maximum usable size for any one product. Do you concur?
Originally Posted by anonymouse
The UI does not work on 3.5/4" and on 10" devices. One UI works on 3.5/4" devices, another UI on 10", they aren't the same UI, they don't follow the same UI design principles. iPad apps and iPhone apps do not use the same UI's, even though they may use the same UI elements (except for the ones that only exist on one target). Pages and Numbers are built from the same UI elements, but they don't have the same UI. Most apps, and probably all the ones successful on both iPhone and iPad, have different UI's for each platform, even when they are universal apps.
To play "pointless' advocate", I've heard talk that a retina iDevice at the 7.85" size would have appropriate button sizes and that this isn't a concern.
I don't buy that, necessarily, and I haven't seen enough mockups to convince me, not to mention the actual usability of the device and other software at that size, but still.
Secondarily, people who travel light. Jackets and lab coats will be sold to accommodate it, especially once they put a retina screen on the second generation.
Originally Posted by Flaneur
Thirty-four posts and not one reference to the real market for this device, if they do it: kids and education.
Kids seem to being doing just fine with the real iPad.
So you admit that it IS possible to make a smaller iPad that wouldn't have the usability concerns you've been raving about, yet you've been ranting and raving about the product without any facts.
Originally Posted by jragosta
So you admit that it IS possible to make a smaller iPad that wouldn't have the usability concerns you've been raving about, yet you've been ranting and raving about the product without any facts.
No, I explicitly stated otherwise. Try reading, please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmason1270
Personally I think the biggest proponents for a iPad mini that rally behind the "more portable" argument will buy it in droves. And I think they are the ones that will be most disappointed with it.
I just truly feel that a iPad Mini is not significantly more portable than a regular iPad. I have stated this in previous posts that if you can't consistently put it in pants pocket then it is not portable. If the device requires you to alter. Your wardrobe habits in any way then it is not more portable. This applies to everyone.
Since at this point it's vaporware, no one outside of Apple's most trusted knows if it's real and what the actual dimensions are. A 7" tablet will fit just fine in my back pocket, much easier than the B&N Nook which also will tho snugly. There's no reason that that if Apple chooses to release a smaller iPad that it's would have to be so large it wouldn't be looked at as more portable and convenient to carry than the current one by new buyers. If portability is the highest priority for Apple I've no doubt they'll make it so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vadania
I have to agree with Tallest Skill on this. I have spent months wondering what I would use a smaller iPad for and whether or not I would purchase one given the availability to do so.
After months of thought, I would be stunned if Apple did release this product. Unfortunately because it's such an upheld rumor and the "market" (Wall Street) has blown the entire idea out of proportion it may still be released.
I can see only three legitimate reasons to release such a product.
The first would be to cater to the small minority who claim they would purchase an iPad if it were smaller. These same people mentioned that they would prefer that it be lighter (apparently they don't exercise AT ALL) and want it to fit into some type of pocket.
1.a) I'm sure that a small community does exists that actually would prefer this product, as does any product.
1.b) At what point does light seem strange. If I (girl/woman) can read lying in bed holding the iPad above my face and having it seem like a paperback. It would be strange. Not "magical" as Apple likes to say, just strange. There's a certain expected 'resistance'. I'm sure the current iPad could be a little lighter for this certain case use, but smaller also? Not really. You end up with the result of losing too much and gaining too little on a smaller device. --- also I do enjoy myself when I read a post that the current iPad is too heavy. While I believe Darwin was wrong (only because he didn't have all rhe 'current' facts during his age). I certainly wouldn't pick a male who couldn't hold an iPad.
1.c) This is very relative. What type of pocket would a person like their devise to fit in. I have seen many arguments on this site that one device vs. another device could fit into a woman's purse. However even a 7.85" iPad would not fit into a clutch bag, leave little room in a purse (although wildly defined). Also if a woman is putting such a device into a tote bag, it had better be covered by an "Otter Box" type solution because you will not be able to read it after a week or two!
1.c.a) I have worn and do wear lab coats. Many people on this site like to use a lab coat as an example. I suspect the same people who like to use lab coats as an example have only seen, but have never actually worn a lab coat. Even though we wear lab coats there is still a quasi fashion statement. There's always the odd guy (read: the really weird) but as a whole, no one really fills that pocket with a giant square. Especially if you exercise and are proud of your curves. This is also true for guys! Some guys say they never wear a wallet because their butts look weird. Fashion aside, let's move on to two.
The second would be the "Market's" expectation of a device to answer the supposed threat from all of the other 7" tablets retailing at present.
2.) unfortunately this will hurt either way. The stock price is built in with the expectation of a small iPad launch at this point. There are proponents on either side so depending on their views the stock will go up or down whether they release this or not. (Yeah, you'll tell me "no duh!"). I've done we'll on stocks, but this one is a definite hard call.
The third would be to introduce people who are familiar with that form size into the Apple ecosystem.
3.) This one is the only approach I could see for Apple regarding what you folk call "form factor". If there are so many of these 7" tablets being used, then make one (that 7" form factor people would buy, at their price point) to get people used to the ecosystem.
3.a) In my opinion this would be the ultimate brand downgrade. First off on this respect, not so many of these tablets are being used. This is an axiom (sorry sol). I'm not sure what these 7" tablets are being used for, but it's very apparent they are not being used for what a tablet was indeed designed for. The only unequivocal use case scenario is that they are all being used for reading 'books' or listening to music. I highlight 'books' because we should slowly see this word phased out. Apparently they are not even viewing the so called "web".
In conclusion, I believe in Tallest's thoughts on the mini iPad. It does have some uses, but not enough to justify basically shrinking the current iPad. I see a small use case scenario for a small iPad. I also believe that if this device is released it would be 'market' based and not 'Apple' based. 'Market' meaning stocks.
My statements,
I believe there should be a larger iPad. Double the current size. (Retina display only) I also believe the OS does actually need to change for the iPad device inverse of the iphone if indeed this is the form that's going to ring in the future of computing. People love to quote Moores Law, however mobile devices have superseded that in the past few years. Think of a double sized iPad with an actual operating system. By mentioning "actual operating system" I do not infer file subsystem acces. The fact that the iPhone 5 feels lighter than it should means to me that the next iPad should be much more capable.
It also hurt me to read negative posts against people who proposed splitting the OS from iPad and iPhone. It was already split. Just develope the iPad more. To those people I ask, So when you download the new OS right from the source and you have to specify the device... You really didn't think it was already splintered off? Really?...
I think you folk call this a wish list... I believe the iPad should have a double sized order option. With a workable double (meaning dual screen on the same screen, if doubled) screen multitask. Please let us get rid of the grid! Maybe I'll start a "Rid the Grid" campaign.
Disclaimer: my beliefs are probably far from yours. I accept that. Hopefully you will also.
I agree wholeheartedly with your opinion on the form factor, however I believe price is the main driver of the pundits calling for a smaller iPad. The companies that produce these smaller tablets sell them at a cheaper price, and justifiably so. While actual sales numbers are hard to come by, supposedly they sell "in the millions" and say Apple is missing out on a sizable market share. "Sizable" being the key word here, as no one seems to know exactly how to quantify that term. I don't understand why Apple would want to downgrade the iOS experience by producing a tablet that will be lacking the complete feature set (display, speed etc) to satisfy an unquantified user base. Not saying there is not market for such a device, just that no one knows just how large that market is. People are cheap, no matter what they like to say on these forums about Apple users buying more apps and paying more for Apple quality. If that same 7 inch tablet cost as much as 9.7 inch iPad, how many people would buy it for the smaller form factor so they could "fit it into a pocket". Not many I'd wager.