Yes, someone making those kind of wages, but forced to live in North America would be "poor." Yes, someone making North American style wages and living in China would be "rich." So what? Someone with an iPhone living in the Middle Ages would also be a great wizard, but none of the above really means anything at all. More importantly, it doesn't mean that the workers are being "treated badly" or get "low wages" or any similar such statements.
Agreed, these types of comparisons are simply not valid. Anyone who has a roof over their head in the US has access to a TV, a phone, a refrigerator, electricity, glass windows, etc. The expectations are different between third world developing countries and modern western society for a comparative economic status within their own country. Just because they are happy with fewer amenities doesn't mean they are on equal economic level to an average worker in the western society.
Agreed. Yet CNN doesn't check the facts before they post the story.
It's not as though facts and fact checking is easy or even doable. There is value in getting "information" out, but rumor and fake news and fake reporting is endemic.
To quote/paraphrase Mark Twain: If you don't read the news, you're uninformed; if you read the news, you're misinformed.
<p> Oh and just one little side note. The iPhone has dings and scratches. Sure that isn't cool when paying a premium for a product, but I'd take a ding and a scratch over a bent samsung galaxy sIII because it was in a pocket of someone I know who sat down for such a brief second that he prevented himself from getting his whole weight down on it as he rose up when realizing it. I'm pretty sure an iPhone wouldn't bend or even get a scratch or ding in that situation. </p><p> <br /> I do realize that I just did what I ranted about in the previous post but it had to be done as I'm sure there will be a android fan at some point commenting on dings and scratches. Only difference about me and them though is that I say go buy the phone you like because that's what I'd want you to do. I have no apple stock and I don't get a boner when an iPhone sells. I guess that's another thing iPhones don't do that android phones have doing for years. How proud I'd be if my first boner was caused by an android when I was a pimply faced 14 year old. </p>
Here's the main problem, people using Apple products expect perfections, and so any scratch will make a very unhappy customer. Android phones will not get the same problem because those customers are in general more tolerate of those kinds of things.
IMO Apple needs to really rethink this current material used on iPhone 5, don't use it on future products. It's not for the Foxconn employees, but for the sake of keeping customers happy.
"Current material" - what material would that be? Aluminum? That was used in the original iPhone. Why no controversy then? Ah, because Iphone was not quite the same phenomenon yet?
There is NOTHING wrong with using aluminum. A glass back was used on iPhone4 and 4S, and people complained about cracking. With the plastic back on 3G and 3GS, there were complaints about scratches. Has someone has invented a new material that is strong, thin and 100% resistant to cracks, scratches and chips?
It's not bent. The inlays are made of glass. Despite their vision-based matching of inlays and aluminum housing, it is impossible to make the glass perfectly aligned with the aluminum back. What you call "bending" is "tipping" due to the fact that the glass inlays are "lower" than the aluminum back.
It's not bent. The inlays are made of glass. Despite their vision-based matching of inlays and aluminum housing, it is impossible to make the glass perfectly aligned with the aluminum back. What you call "bending" is "tipping" due to the fact that the glass inlays are "lower" than the aluminum back.
How do know that? Are you the person who posted the YouTube? It seems like, watching that YouTube, iPhone 5 has been bent somehow before that person received it.
There are this bent issues reported in Macrumors. I am sure that te
These are isolated incidents, but long iPhone 5 with thin aluminium body may prone to it. So, do not put it in back pockets.
charlituna, I wasn't the only one in the other thread that called you on this FedEx stuff. How is the phone going to get scratched when it's inside the most insanely protective box ever designed?!!!
It happens in the factory.
That box is zero protective. The tray is the same loose design they have always used, nothing holding it in place. A mere slip of plastic 'protecting' the front screen.
But you go on and believe that it's all happening during assembly. Because after that they are wrapped in piles of protective material and handled with delicate care until it arrives in your hands.
Not pictures of the riot, like last time. Not video, not anyone at all quoting workers or anything, just a denial.
Must mean there's something dark and mysterious going on.
...not even photos or reports of the train that left the factory with over 2000 striking workers headed for a re-education camp/asbestos mine in the far west. Nor any mention of the train arriving at the factory with over 2000 new employees immediately afterwards. Not one word! The silence from China is deafening.
It's hard to take you seriously when you begin with a statement like this, although I mostly agree with the rest of what you say.
The idea that the Foxconn employees "get so little" is completely false. In fact it's the reverse. Relative to their own economy (the only measure that's rational), they make more than a worker in North America does in a similar situation. It's just completely meaningless to compare their wages in China to the buying power they would theoretically have in the North American economy.
Yes, someone making those kind of wages, but forced to live in North America would be "poor." Yes, someone making North American style wages and living in China would be "rich." So what? Someone with an iPhone living in the Middle Ages would also be a great wizard, but none of the above really means anything at all. More importantly, it doesn't mean that the workers are being "treated badly" or get "low wages" or any similar such statements.
Obviously you don't have to take me serious but I'm okay with that because I'd hate it if everyone thought as I did.
Back to the topic though I wasn't only comparing wages but work environment. In North America and in Europe employees are pampered compared to Asia. It's hard for me to believe that isn't the case.
I'm fully aware pay wage is all relative to the region you live in. I live in Canada and I also lived in the United States for about 4 or 5 years and I can tell you that even between the two Countries there is a difference in cost of living and how making more in Canada doesn't necessarily mean a better lifestyle because of that cost (my opinion, so don't anyone bug out, is Canada is still a better Country though from my experience). However you can't possibly compare China to North America. Hey if you really believe what you say why aren't more Americans moving to China for work? I'm not talking jobs that require a education. That's a different thing altogether. I'm talking these types of jobs. People from Asia come to North America and have no problem working hard labour jobs. I highly doubt that you see White people in China stitching up your brand new Air Jordans. If it's as you say why don't we see that?
There is no question that the workers at Foxconn are being exploited but my blame isn't towards Apple or other tech companies or any manufacturing company for that matter. In a lot of people's eyes they are to blame but I just don't see it that way. Why aren't us customers to blame as well. The same people blaming Apple are typing out a news story on a laptop that was purchased from HP that was made by a group of Chinese workers. If they really believed what they sent out to the masses than they would think down to even small details such as that but they don't and I get it's just about clicks and ad money.
I'm not saying I fully disagree with everything you said. I'm not saying these people at Foxconn are living poor. They are obviously the fortunate ones to have a job and they are able to provide necessities as needed for their families if need be but they are in no way compensated as we are in North America even in relative terms. Maybe the problem isn't that they are treated badly but rather we are just treated too well. I say that because I'm a religious person and I do believe that we as humans have gotten our priorities out of order. Too many non important things have become the center of our universes. I loathe TMZ!!! That's a whole other topic though. Just my 2 cents, take it for what it is.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
Yes, someone making those kind of wages, but forced to live in North America would be "poor." Yes, someone making North American style wages and living in China would be "rich." So what? Someone with an iPhone living in the Middle Ages would also be a great wizard, but none of the above really means anything at all. More importantly, it doesn't mean that the workers are being "treated badly" or get "low wages" or any similar such statements.
Agreed, these types of comparisons are simply not valid. Anyone who has a roof over their head in the US has access to a TV, a phone, a refrigerator, electricity, glass windows, etc. The expectations are different between third world developing countries and modern western society for a comparative economic status within their own country. Just because they are happy with fewer amenities doesn't mean they are on equal economic level to an average worker in the western society.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
CNN is reporting the original story that Foxconn has now denied.
Agreed. Yet CNN doesn't check the facts before they post the story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerk36
Agreed. Yet CNN doesn't check the facts before they post the story.
It's not as though facts and fact checking is easy or even doable. There is value in getting "information" out, but rumor and fake news and fake reporting is endemic.
To quote/paraphrase Mark Twain: If you don't read the news, you're uninformed; if you read the news, you're misinformed.
Are you sure iPhone wouldn't bend?
Originally Posted by waldobushman
Anybody in favor of truth?
*raises hand* Don't care what it is, just the truth.
Originally Posted by waldobushman
To quote/paraphrase Mark Twain: If you don't read the news, you're uninformed; if you read the news, you're misinformed.
"There she is, Miss Informed…"
deleted
Originally Posted by MacRulez
Of vice-versa. At the moment all we have is a denial from Foxconn, so we don't really know which story is true.
RIght, that's all we have.
Not pictures of the riot, like last time. Not video, not anyone at all quoting workers or anything, just a denial.
Must mean there's something dark and mysterious going on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drobforever
Here's the main problem, people using Apple products expect perfections, and so any scratch will make a very unhappy customer. Android phones will not get the same problem because those customers are in general more tolerate of those kinds of things.
IMO Apple needs to really rethink this current material used on iPhone 5, don't use it on future products. It's not for the Foxconn employees, but for the sake of keeping customers happy.
"Current material" - what material would that be? Aluminum? That was used in the original iPhone. Why no controversy then? Ah, because Iphone was not quite the same phenomenon yet?
There is NOTHING wrong with using aluminum. A glass back was used on iPhone4 and 4S, and people complained about cracking. With the plastic back on 3G and 3GS, there were complaints about scratches. Has someone has invented a new material that is strong, thin and 100% resistant to cracks, scratches and chips?
Originally Posted by Harbinger
Has someone has invented a new material that is strong, thin and 100% resistant to cracks, scratches and chips?
Diamond.*
*This statement brought to you by The Diamond Council. Statement not to be taken as a guarantee against cracks, scratches, or chips.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hjb
Are you sure iPhone wouldn't bend?
It's not bent. The inlays are made of glass. Despite their vision-based matching of inlays and aluminum housing, it is impossible to make the glass perfectly aligned with the aluminum back. What you call "bending" is "tipping" due to the fact that the glass inlays are "lower" than the aluminum back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Diamond.*
*This statement brought to you by The Diamond Council. Statement not to be taken as a guarantee against cracks, scratches, or chips.
Your proviso says it - diamond is not 100% resistant to scratches.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hjb
Are you sure iPhone wouldn't bend?
I guess I was mistaken. Didn't think I'd see that. What can I say you proved me wrong.
How do know that? Are you the person who posted the YouTube? It seems like, watching that YouTube, iPhone 5 has been bent somehow before that person received it.
There are this bent issues reported in Macrumors. I am sure that te
These are isolated incidents, but long iPhone 5 with thin aluminium body may prone to it. So, do not put it in back pockets.
That box is zero protective. The tray is the same loose design they have always used, nothing holding it in place. A mere slip of plastic 'protecting' the front screen.
But you go on and believe that it's all happening during assembly. Because after that they are wrapped in piles of protective material and handled with delicate care until it arrives in your hands.
Truth, outside of an official Apple product announcement, rarely gets hits. And hits is all that matter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
RIght, that's all we have.
Not pictures of the riot, like last time. Not video, not anyone at all quoting workers or anything, just a denial.
Must mean there's something dark and mysterious going on.
...not even photos or reports of the train that left the factory with over 2000 striking workers headed for a re-education camp/asbestos mine in the far west. Nor any mention of the train arriving at the factory with over 2000 new employees immediately afterwards. Not one word! The silence from China is deafening.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
It's hard to take you seriously when you begin with a statement like this, although I mostly agree with the rest of what you say.
The idea that the Foxconn employees "get so little" is completely false. In fact it's the reverse. Relative to their own economy (the only measure that's rational), they make more than a worker in North America does in a similar situation. It's just completely meaningless to compare their wages in China to the buying power they would theoretically have in the North American economy.
Yes, someone making those kind of wages, but forced to live in North America would be "poor." Yes, someone making North American style wages and living in China would be "rich." So what? Someone with an iPhone living in the Middle Ages would also be a great wizard, but none of the above really means anything at all. More importantly, it doesn't mean that the workers are being "treated badly" or get "low wages" or any similar such statements.
Obviously you don't have to take me serious but I'm okay with that because I'd hate it if everyone thought as I did.
Back to the topic though I wasn't only comparing wages but work environment. In North America and in Europe employees are pampered compared to Asia. It's hard for me to believe that isn't the case.
I'm fully aware pay wage is all relative to the region you live in. I live in Canada and I also lived in the United States for about 4 or 5 years and I can tell you that even between the two Countries there is a difference in cost of living and how making more in Canada doesn't necessarily mean a better lifestyle because of that cost (my opinion, so don't anyone bug out, is Canada is still a better Country though from my experience). However you can't possibly compare China to North America. Hey if you really believe what you say why aren't more Americans moving to China for work? I'm not talking jobs that require a education. That's a different thing altogether. I'm talking these types of jobs. People from Asia come to North America and have no problem working hard labour jobs. I highly doubt that you see White people in China stitching up your brand new Air Jordans. If it's as you say why don't we see that?
There is no question that the workers at Foxconn are being exploited but my blame isn't towards Apple or other tech companies or any manufacturing company for that matter. In a lot of people's eyes they are to blame but I just don't see it that way. Why aren't us customers to blame as well. The same people blaming Apple are typing out a news story on a laptop that was purchased from HP that was made by a group of Chinese workers. If they really believed what they sent out to the masses than they would think down to even small details such as that but they don't and I get it's just about clicks and ad money.
I'm not saying I fully disagree with everything you said. I'm not saying these people at Foxconn are living poor. They are obviously the fortunate ones to have a job and they are able to provide necessities as needed for their families if need be but they are in no way compensated as we are in North America even in relative terms. Maybe the problem isn't that they are treated badly but rather we are just treated too well. I say that because I'm a religious person and I do believe that we as humans have gotten our priorities out of order. Too many non important things have become the center of our universes. I loathe TMZ!!! That's a whole other topic though. Just my 2 cents, take it for what it is.