I know it is cliche, but I'll go there: I don't think Steve would have allowed them to release a device that scratches up this easily.
You know it's cliché, you know you shouldn't say it, and you still say it. I don't get it. We can't know these things. It's likely he personally approved the device himself.
I agree with the sentence that preceded this one, though.
I appreciate your post, and there are some good, valid points- but in the scheme of things- I don't think this will hurt Apple's reputation in the slightest. Because at the end of the day- 95% (or more) of the iPhones I see out in the wild have cases on them. In fact- the handful- and I mean midget handful- of iPhone 4s that I've seen without a case have cracked or shattered glass on the front or back. That's definitely worse. :-)
I read somewhere online that if you put your iPhone 5 in a case, you can't see the marks. The problem is, if I was going to purchase the phone used & it had the marks, I would either not buy it or it would be leverage to offer a lower price.
Apple has prided itself in the well-crafted & expensive box & packing materials to create a really great emotional experience when purchasing & opening your new toy. Elation must turn to disbelief when you finally peel the plastic off the phone's surfaces to discover that it was packaged looking like someone had used it for a weekend with a pocket full of keys. Even if I put a case on the phone so the nicks weren't visible, I would know they were there & that I had paid full price, taxes, upgrade fee with the carrier (AT&T), & drove the many miles, all to feel I got less than I paid for.
BINGO. This is the issue exactly. The factors that influence brand perception are emotional. You can make the finest automobile under the surface in the entire world; best power train, best suspension, finest materials... but if it on the surface looks like a 1975 dodge, it won't sell. Why? Because it doesn't create the emotional connection that drives sales and which ultimately drive a brand.
People talk about these scratches from the perspective of the scratches and nicks themselves; they are so small, so minor... hardly worth attention, right? In themselves, perhaps. But they mean a lot when it comes to the emotional connections that drive sales and which culture the brand. The bigger issue is 'why did Apple bring to market a device that would look so awful after such a short period of time'?
I challenge anyone here to go to a high volume Apple store and look at these devices. Turn them over, hold them in your hand, and just connect with your first impressions, and be honest with yourselves.
You know it's cliché, you know you shouldn't say it, and you still say it. I don't get it. We can't know these things. It's likely he personally approved the device himself.
I agree with the sentence that preceded this one, though.
You are right that we cannot know. But we do know a lot about Steve. For example, we know he famously agonized over the precise shade of blue for the original iMacs. We know he even pondered the color of robots in Apple's factories. To suggest that Steve would have been ok with a device that scratches up terribly after just a few weeks of use, I think, is less probably true than to suggest that he would not have allowed it to come to market without improvement.
By the way, I was unaware of a prohibition against the cliche which would justify the statement that one should not have said something.
You are right that we cannot know. But we do know a lot about Steve. For example, we know he famously agonized over the precise shade of blue for the original iMacs. We know he even pondered the color of robots in Apple's factories. To suggest that Steve would have been ok with a device that scratches up terribly after just a few weeks of use, I think, is less probably true than to suggest that he would not have allowed it to come to market without improvement.
Also have to take into consideration that it's possible he wouldn't have scratched it. I mean, the guy never used a case, sure, but these were his products. He'd take care of them. It's possible that if he had ever dropped his iPhone 4/S, he would have gone to his team and said, "Look, this shouldn't happen. Make this not happen." It's also more likely that he never dropped it and didn't even consider dropping it to be a possibility because of what the device represents to so many people.
By the way, I was unaware of a prohibition against the cliche which would justify the statement that one should not have said something.
It just really diminishes the rest of your argument when you use it.
I appreciate your post, and there are some good, valid points- but in the scheme of things- I don't think this will hurt Apple's reputation in the slightest. Because at the end of the day- 95% (or more) of the iPhones I see out in the wild have cases on them. In fact- the handful- and I mean midget handful- of iPhone 4s that I've seen without a case have cracked or shattered glass on the front or back. That's definitely worse. :-)
Over time, even an iPhone 5 in a case will also start to show wear. With handling flexible cases will rub against the sharp anodised edges and 'polish' away the finish. Any dust that gets between the case and the phone will act as an abrasive make the problem worse. You can already see this effect on some iPhone 4's that have had bumpers fitted. Imagine what a black iPhone 5 will look like after 1 or 2 years in a case.
Over time, even an iPhone 5 in a case will also start to show wear. With handling flexible cases will rub against the sharp anodised edges and 'polish' away the finish. Any dust that gets between the case and the phone will act as an abrasive make the problem worse. You can already see this effect on some iPhone 4's that have had bumpers fitted. Imagine what a black iPhone 5 will look like after 1 or 2 years in a case.
Good points. Then I'll go back to my original one- the best solution- no case, and wrap the back and sides. Best of both worlds- no scratches and no case
Can someone tell me the REAL reason why the iPhone 5 is in short supply?
So far, we've heard: - Quality control issues. They have to slow down production because of a design problem - Screens. Sharp (and others) can not produce screens fast enough - Riots at the Foxconn factory
Did I miss anything? Maybe they're short of unicorn poop which is used to fertilize the magic iPhone trees where the iPhones grow. /s
In reality, it appears that supply is relatively plentiful (at least compared to previous launches), but demand is just so overwhelming that even Apple's vaunted supply chain can't keep up.
Good points. Then I'll go back to my original one- the best solution- no case, and wrap the back and sides. Best of both worlds- no scratches and no case
I agree. A self-adhesive wrap would be the way to go, as long as you get one that also protects those 'delicate' sides / edges.
I agree. A self-adhesive wrap would be the way to go, as long as you get one that also protects those 'delicate' sides / edges.
I've had the while iPhone for 2 weeks now and have no nicks or scuffs with the band or chamfered edges. And I don't have the phone in a case, I just have a protective film on the back. Maybe it's the black phone that's the issue? Because my white phone is not as delicate as some are suggesting. And with the ones damaged out of the box that clearly is a manufacturing issue and I'm glad to see Apple is addressing it.
You can't see the idiocy in saying "There isn't a single scratch on it" and that you "have a form-fitting case for it" when the case covers the freaking part that could get scratched?!?!?!
There is no way you can be serious. And if you are- please stop dumbing down the thread by posting in it.
If you're going to quote someone, please don't do so in a dishonest manner: I said (you're welcome to go back and look) "...form-fitting slide-in/-out case..."
In other words, one that you slip the phone into when you're walking around with it or in your pocket, or in your car, etc. One that is not a case when the phone is in use (as in right now).
Two pieces of advice. Dude. One, please learn to read and process information better before spouting off. Two (and more important), if you're simply carrying/throwing the phone around au naturel, not only do you need to stop whining about the resulting scratches and scuffs, but you do not count as a relevant data point for this particular issue.
In reality, it appears that supply is relatively plentiful (at least compared to previous launches), but demand is just so overwhelming that even Apple's vaunted supply chain can't keep up.
No doubt at all that the black one scuffs very very easily. The silver/white is definitely more durable. If you go without a case, wrapping it is an absolute must or it will look like crap. I started going caseless with my black one and have 3-4 tiny little nicks around edges and one tiny scratch on back- already (and I was extremely careful). My wife's white, on the otherhand, just goes in her purse and she doesn't take as good of care (although still good)- not a scratch or ding.
Just something to think about if you're buying one in the future.
Needless to say, I got a catchif case for $9 for both of us until my wrap comes in- fits perfect and is super thin. Hate covering up this beauty. :-(
I haven't used a case, and I've had mine since launch day--a black one--and there's not scratch, scuff, or nick in sight. Nothing. And I used it and carry it in my jeans pocket everywhere I go. I don't treat it any differently than the iPhone 4 it replaced. I'm not sure what the differs between our circumstances, but it is possible to keep it clean and undamaged without a case.
I had the Apple bumpers on the iPhone 4, and while some doubted its effectiveness as protection, I found the bumpers adequate for the two years I used the iPhone 4. The raised lip of the bumper meant that the back glass of the iPhone 4 never physically touched any surface it was laid on. But the bumpers' tight fit around the stainless steel antenna band meant that any microscopic dust that found its way onto the stainless steel band would be rub against the band, causing the brushed steel look to become polished. This didn't bother me because the stainless steel was unpainted; it simply changed the texture of the metal. I wouldn't call this polishing effect a "nick" or "scratch", but I realize that's just semantics.
The same thing happened to the plastic finish on the back of my original iPhone and the plastic back of the iPhone 3GS. Even with a soft silicone case, any dust that got in there would rub against the plastic, dulling the finish in what looked like scuff marks.
For this reason, I've decided not to put a case on the iPhone 5--the first time I've used an iPhone without the case. I'm convinced that, barring an accident, I can keep it nick- and scratch-free, and that a case would only guarantee scratches. If it can grind down stainless steel on the iPhone 4, it can mar the aluminum finish of the iPhone 5.
If you're going to quote someone, please don't do so in a dishonest manner: I said (you're welcome to go back and look) "...form-fitting slide-in/-out case..."
In other words, one that you slip the phone into when you're walking around with it or in your pocket, or in your car, etc. One that is not a case when the phone is in use (as in right now).
Two pieces of advice. Dude. One, please learn to read and process information better before spouting off. Two (and more important), if you're simply carrying/throwing the phone around au naturel, not only do you need to stop whining about the resulting scratches and scuffs, but you do not count as a relevant data point for this particular issue.
That's still a case. Who could possibly scratch their phone when all they do is pull it out of their case, talk on it, and put it back in? It never sits on a table, countertop, pocket, cupholder, lap, etc. There is a big difference between putting your phone in your empty pocket or leaving it on your kitchen countertop and "throwing the phone around". I did the former, and there is a single tiny scratch on the back and two miniscule chips on the bezeling. You go under the assumption that if someone is getting a scratch, it's because they aren't careful. This isn't the case- period. Unless, of course, your definition of "careful" is putting it in a case unless you're talking on it.
But sure- if you want to either:
A) Have a "slide-in/-out case" that you wear on your beltloop like my dad.
or Have a "slide-in/-out case" that you have to take the phone out of everytime it rings or you want to do anything to it
Then fine, you don't get a scratch. That's another option.
FWIW - I spoke with a Laser Engraver recently over some Apple products we are having engraving work done...
Her words "the quality of the aluminum can be all over the place". In our case, same laser engraving, same art, jig, etc. 4 different iPads... 4 different colors, edge quality, etc.
The aluminum isn't CNC machined guys. At best it's flow formed or cast - which is a cheaper method of mass producing pieces.
Aluminum WILL dent, scratch, etc. Stainless steel (of the iPhone 4)... not so much. Nature of the beast.
... there is a single tiny scratch on the back and two miniscule chips on the bezeling.
You're the one that compared the scratches on your iPhone 5 to a "beat up car," and exclaimed "dead on!" to a guy who was complaining about the phone being "scratchtastic."
Now you say ".....there is a single tiny scratch and two miniscule chips."
FWIW - I spoke with a Laser Engraver recently over some Apple products we are having engraving work done...
Her words "the quality of the aluminum can be all over the place". In our case, same laser engraving, same art, jig, etc. 4 different iPads... 4 different colors, edge quality, etc.
If it's so problematic, I am curious: why/how does Apple boldly offer free engraving with purchase? Surely, they would be running into these sorts of issues?
Could it simply be the case that your laser engraver is unable to provide the same quality of work, but is instead blaming it on the product?
Comments
Originally Posted by tt92618
I know it is cliche, but I'll go there: I don't think Steve would have allowed them to release a device that scratches up this easily.
You know it's cliché, you know you shouldn't say it, and you still say it. I don't get it. We can't know these things. It's likely he personally approved the device himself.
I agree with the sentence that preceded this one, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tt92618
I appreciate your post, and there are some good, valid points- but in the scheme of things- I don't think this will hurt Apple's reputation in the slightest. Because at the end of the day- 95% (or more) of the iPhones I see out in the wild have cases on them. In fact- the handful- and I mean midget handful- of iPhone 4s that I've seen without a case have cracked or shattered glass on the front or back. That's definitely worse. :-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kellya74u
I read somewhere online that if you put your iPhone 5 in a case, you can't see the marks. The problem is, if I was going to purchase the phone used & it had the marks, I would either not buy it or it would be leverage to offer a lower price.
Apple has prided itself in the well-crafted & expensive box & packing materials to create a really great emotional experience when purchasing & opening your new toy. Elation must turn to disbelief when you finally peel the plastic off the phone's surfaces to discover that it was packaged looking like someone had used it for a weekend with a pocket full of keys. Even if I put a case on the phone so the nicks weren't visible, I would know they were there & that I had paid full price, taxes, upgrade fee with the carrier (AT&T), & drove the many miles, all to feel I got less than I paid for.
BINGO. This is the issue exactly. The factors that influence brand perception are emotional. You can make the finest automobile under the surface in the entire world; best power train, best suspension, finest materials... but if it on the surface looks like a 1975 dodge, it won't sell. Why? Because it doesn't create the emotional connection that drives sales and which ultimately drive a brand.
People talk about these scratches from the perspective of the scratches and nicks themselves; they are so small, so minor... hardly worth attention, right? In themselves, perhaps. But they mean a lot when it comes to the emotional connections that drive sales and which culture the brand. The bigger issue is 'why did Apple bring to market a device that would look so awful after such a short period of time'?
I challenge anyone here to go to a high volume Apple store and look at these devices. Turn them over, hold them in your hand, and just connect with your first impressions, and be honest with yourselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
You know it's cliché, you know you shouldn't say it, and you still say it. I don't get it. We can't know these things. It's likely he personally approved the device himself.
I agree with the sentence that preceded this one, though.
You are right that we cannot know. But we do know a lot about Steve. For example, we know he famously agonized over the precise shade of blue for the original iMacs. We know he even pondered the color of robots in Apple's factories. To suggest that Steve would have been ok with a device that scratches up terribly after just a few weeks of use, I think, is less probably true than to suggest that he would not have allowed it to come to market without improvement.
By the way, I was unaware of a prohibition against the cliche which would justify the statement that one should not have said something.
Originally Posted by tt92618
You are right that we cannot know. But we do know a lot about Steve. For example, we know he famously agonized over the precise shade of blue for the original iMacs. We know he even pondered the color of robots in Apple's factories. To suggest that Steve would have been ok with a device that scratches up terribly after just a few weeks of use, I think, is less probably true than to suggest that he would not have allowed it to come to market without improvement.
Also have to take into consideration that it's possible he wouldn't have scratched it. I mean, the guy never used a case, sure, but these were his products. He'd take care of them. It's possible that if he had ever dropped his iPhone 4/S, he would have gone to his team and said, "Look, this shouldn't happen. Make this not happen." It's also more likely that he never dropped it and didn't even consider dropping it to be a possibility because of what the device represents to so many people.
By the way, I was unaware of a prohibition against the cliche which would justify the statement that one should not have said something.
It just really diminishes the rest of your argument when you use it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol
I appreciate your post, and there are some good, valid points- but in the scheme of things- I don't think this will hurt Apple's reputation in the slightest. Because at the end of the day- 95% (or more) of the iPhones I see out in the wild have cases on them. In fact- the handful- and I mean midget handful- of iPhone 4s that I've seen without a case have cracked or shattered glass on the front or back. That's definitely worse. :-)
Over time, even an iPhone 5 in a case will also start to show wear. With handling flexible cases will rub against the sharp anodised edges and 'polish' away the finish. Any dust that gets between the case and the phone will act as an abrasive make the problem worse. You can already see this effect on some iPhone 4's that have had bumpers fitted. Imagine what a black iPhone 5 will look like after 1 or 2 years in a case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
It just really diminishes the rest of your argument when you use it.
That being the case, please excuse the remark and consider the entirety of my argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stike vomit
Over time, even an iPhone 5 in a case will also start to show wear. With handling flexible cases will rub against the sharp anodised edges and 'polish' away the finish. Any dust that gets between the case and the phone will act as an abrasive make the problem worse. You can already see this effect on some iPhone 4's that have had bumpers fitted. Imagine what a black iPhone 5 will look like after 1 or 2 years in a case.
Good points. Then I'll go back to my original one- the best solution- no case, and wrap the back and sides. Best of both worlds- no scratches and no case
So far, we've heard:
- Quality control issues. They have to slow down production because of a design problem
- Screens. Sharp (and others) can not produce screens fast enough
- Riots at the Foxconn factory
Did I miss anything? Maybe they're short of unicorn poop which is used to fertilize the magic iPhone trees where the iPhones grow. /s
In reality, it appears that supply is relatively plentiful (at least compared to previous launches), but demand is just so overwhelming that even Apple's vaunted supply chain can't keep up.
Originally Posted by jragosta
Can someone tell me the REAL reason why the iPhone 5 is in short supply?
Demand.
Seems silly that one word is the answer, dunnit? But then again, seems silly that the reason has to be called into question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol
Good points. Then I'll go back to my original one- the best solution- no case, and wrap the back and sides. Best of both worlds- no scratches and no case
I agree. A self-adhesive wrap would be the way to go, as long as you get one that also protects those 'delicate' sides / edges.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol
You can't see the idiocy in saying "There isn't a single scratch on it" and that you "have a form-fitting case for it" when the case covers the freaking part that could get scratched?!?!?!
There is no way you can be serious. And if you are- please stop dumbing down the thread by posting in it.
If you're going to quote someone, please don't do so in a dishonest manner: I said (you're welcome to go back and look) "...form-fitting slide-in/-out case..."
In other words, one that you slip the phone into when you're walking around with it or in your pocket, or in your car, etc. One that is not a case when the phone is in use (as in right now).
Two pieces of advice. Dude. One, please learn to read and process information better before spouting off. Two (and more important), if you're simply carrying/throwing the phone around au naturel, not only do you need to stop whining about the resulting scratches and scuffs, but you do not count as a relevant data point for this particular issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
In reality, it appears that supply is relatively plentiful (at least compared to previous launches), but demand is just so overwhelming that even Apple's vaunted supply chain can't keep up.
That's just about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol
No doubt at all that the black one scuffs very very easily. The silver/white is definitely more durable. If you go without a case, wrapping it is an absolute must or it will look like crap. I started going caseless with my black one and have 3-4 tiny little nicks around edges and one tiny scratch on back- already (and I was extremely careful). My wife's white, on the otherhand, just goes in her purse and she doesn't take as good of care (although still good)- not a scratch or ding.
Just something to think about if you're buying one in the future.
Needless to say, I got a catchif case for $9 for both of us until my wrap comes in- fits perfect and is super thin. Hate covering up this beauty. :-(
I haven't used a case, and I've had mine since launch day--a black one--and there's not scratch, scuff, or nick in sight. Nothing. And I used it and carry it in my jeans pocket everywhere I go. I don't treat it any differently than the iPhone 4 it replaced. I'm not sure what the differs between our circumstances, but it is possible to keep it clean and undamaged without a case.
I had the Apple bumpers on the iPhone 4, and while some doubted its effectiveness as protection, I found the bumpers adequate for the two years I used the iPhone 4. The raised lip of the bumper meant that the back glass of the iPhone 4 never physically touched any surface it was laid on. But the bumpers' tight fit around the stainless steel antenna band meant that any microscopic dust that found its way onto the stainless steel band would be rub against the band, causing the brushed steel look to become polished. This didn't bother me because the stainless steel was unpainted; it simply changed the texture of the metal. I wouldn't call this polishing effect a "nick" or "scratch", but I realize that's just semantics.
The same thing happened to the plastic finish on the back of my original iPhone and the plastic back of the iPhone 3GS. Even with a soft silicone case, any dust that got in there would rub against the plastic, dulling the finish in what looked like scuff marks.
For this reason, I've decided not to put a case on the iPhone 5--the first time I've used an iPhone without the case. I'm convinced that, barring an accident, I can keep it nick- and scratch-free, and that a case would only guarantee scratches. If it can grind down stainless steel on the iPhone 4, it can mar the aluminum finish of the iPhone 5.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
If you're going to quote someone, please don't do so in a dishonest manner: I said (you're welcome to go back and look) "...form-fitting slide-in/-out case..."
In other words, one that you slip the phone into when you're walking around with it or in your pocket, or in your car, etc. One that is not a case when the phone is in use (as in right now).
Two pieces of advice. Dude. One, please learn to read and process information better before spouting off. Two (and more important), if you're simply carrying/throwing the phone around au naturel, not only do you need to stop whining about the resulting scratches and scuffs, but you do not count as a relevant data point for this particular issue.
That's still a case. Who could possibly scratch their phone when all they do is pull it out of their case, talk on it, and put it back in? It never sits on a table, countertop, pocket, cupholder, lap, etc. There is a big difference between putting your phone in your empty pocket or leaving it on your kitchen countertop and "throwing the phone around". I did the former, and there is a single tiny scratch on the back and two miniscule chips on the bezeling. You go under the assumption that if someone is getting a scratch, it's because they aren't careful. This isn't the case- period. Unless, of course, your definition of "careful" is putting it in a case unless you're talking on it.
But sure- if you want to either:
A) Have a "slide-in/-out case" that you wear on your beltloop like my dad.
or
Then fine, you don't get a scratch. That's another option.
FWIW - I spoke with a Laser Engraver recently over some Apple products we are having engraving work done...
Her words "the quality of the aluminum can be all over the place". In our case, same laser engraving, same art, jig, etc. 4 different iPads... 4 different colors, edge quality, etc.
The aluminum isn't CNC machined guys. At best it's flow formed or cast - which is a cheaper method of mass producing pieces.
Aluminum WILL dent, scratch, etc. Stainless steel (of the iPhone 4)... not so much. Nature of the beast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol
... there is a single tiny scratch on the back and two miniscule chips on the bezeling.
You're the one that compared the scratches on your iPhone 5 to a "beat up car," and exclaimed "dead on!" to a guy who was complaining about the phone being "scratchtastic."
Now you say ".....there is a single tiny scratch and two miniscule chips."
Which is it? Make up your mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuxoM3
FWIW - I spoke with a Laser Engraver recently over some Apple products we are having engraving work done...
Her words "the quality of the aluminum can be all over the place". In our case, same laser engraving, same art, jig, etc. 4 different iPads... 4 different colors, edge quality, etc.
If it's so problematic, I am curious: why/how does Apple boldly offer free engraving with purchase? Surely, they would be running into these sorts of issues?
Could it simply be the case that your laser engraver is unable to provide the same quality of work, but is instead blaming it on the product?