And just who is the financial centre of Europe? Where is most of the European financial speculation performed? Where did a number of big banks crash a few years back? The Euro-zone crisis is just one part of a string that started in the U.S, moved to Europe via?
You see, it ain't all Black&White.
You are damn right it isn't all black and white. What you say above is correct. But also ask who was responsible for allowing countries to join the Euro zone who's finances were clearly unfit, and then turn a blind eye for years as those countries lived well beyond their means? Hint: It wasn't the UK.
The general population of the UK do not really understand the EU, how it works, or how it actually benefits their lives. UK governments have done little to educate them on the subject. Instead, most of what people hear about the EU is from actively anti-EU tabloid newspapers, who run bullshit stories about how the EU wastes their tax money by making laws that regulate how bent bananas should be. (No joke!).
Disclaimer: I am from the UK, but I have lived and worked on the continent for the last 13 years.
Don't get me wrong, I love the UK, it's a beautiful country with a lot of culture and traditions, but I fell that they are not playing the game like most of the other members.
On the contrary. Compared to many EU countries (including France) the UK has a very good record on implementing EU directives and adhering to the 'rules'.
Funny that you ask about video recording, because I got one. Recently here in France I had my iPod nano break up just before the end of the 2 years warranty. An Apple Store employee insisted that I didn't have the right to ask for a change even if it obviously was a hardware problem. I called directly Apple in Ireland and said that I had begun a procedure to sue, they saw all the products I bought from them and accepted a free change. The problem is that if I hadn't been a good customer they probably wouldn't have done that, but that law applies to everybody.
I'll answer to your trollish last sentences. Italy's economy isn't in a worse sh*t than that of the US, don't believe all that speculation. The warranty is an EU regulation, anyway. And that has nothing to do with economic problems anyway.
Finally, for a reason that I don't understand apart from being ill faith, you think it's stupid to protect consumers that way. I say it's stupid to not have a law that asks for a product to not break by itself for at least two years, especially an Apple product. Apple is hammering everybody's head with hype on how good and superior their products are, yet they can't guarantee their products for two little years? That's contradictory. Italy, Belgium are just the beginning, within a few years Apple will be forced to apply the law. I would like to say 'like everybody else', but there are lots of companies that do that.
Excellent rebuttal! The post from Gazoobee comes across as incredibly narrow-minded, at least to me. I also don't understand why Apple doesn't grant the mandatory 2 year guarantee on its products. B&O gives 3, and for good reason.
You are damn right it isn't all black and white. What you say above is correct. But also ask who was responsible for allowing countries to join the Euro zone who's finances were clearly unfit, and then turn a blind eye for years as those countries lived well beyond their means? Hint: It wasn't the UK.
The general population of the UK do not really understand the EU, how it works, or how it actually benefits their lives. UK governments have done little to educate them on the subject. Instead, most of what people hear about the EU is from actively anti-EU tabloid newspapers, who run bullshit stories about how the EU wastes their tax money by making laws that regulate how bent bananas should be. (No joke!).
Disclaimer: I am from the UK, but I have lived and worked on the continent for the last 13 years.
I agree with you all the way there. Being from northern Europe, we have had a really hard time swallowing the fact that central Europe has allowed southern Europe to get away with a completely irresponsible finance management and non-compliance to a wealth of other directives largely due to their and their banks' greed.
EU like all governmental bodies (health&safety overkill in the UK for example) create silly laws to appease some political agenda. But when it comes to protection of consumers and looking after your own citizens, I have a hard time finding places where such protections are stipulated in law in the breath they are in the EU. For me that's a +. The downsides, like straightness of cucumbers and curvature of bananas (which have now been removed btw) are the downsides to the equation which we as citizens need to be active in battling against.
I agree with you all the way there. Being from northern Europe, we have had a really hard time swallowing the fact that central Europe has allowed southern Europe to get away with a completely irresponsible finance management and non-compliance to a wealth of other directives largely due to their and their banks' greed.
EU like all governmental bodies (health&safety overkill in the UK for example) create silly laws to appease some political agenda. But when it comes to protection of consumers and looking after your own citizens, I have a hard time finding places where such protections are stipulated in law in the breath they are in the EU. For me that's a +. The downsides, like straightness of cucumbers and curvature of bananas (which have now been removed btw) are the downsides to the equation which we as citizens need to be active in battling against.
You think that central europe did that? Maybe I don't realize it. I don't know where it came from, but a lot of politicians have progressively changed the goals of the EU from being a reunion of peoples that want to share things to a reunion of banks and traders that just want to share money.
The EU is economically becoming more and more like the US, carried over by some other parts of the world who want to take advantage of the crisis to transform our economy in a liberal paradise. That's probably one of the reasons why markets keep on going down even when good measures are taken, they just want to manipulate our governments.
Accused. But no one has shown proof that they
1. Gave a consumer incorrect information about the two year rule and exactly what it covers
2. Failed to uphold a correctly performed claim
Remember this law is only about defects present when purchased from the seller. So if someone brings in something with a defect that came after delivery, the law doesn't apply. If it was a proven defect at delivery but was bought from someone other that Apple, the law doesn't apply.
The fact is that the warranty period in Europe is 2 years under at least some conditions per the EU directive. The graphic in this article shows that Apple is telling consumers that they only have a one year warranty and need to buy AppleCare to get a 2nd year of coverage.
Now, if they had made the first year one color - to show essentially full warranty coverage, and then made the second year a different color and labeled it "limited warranty protection per EU directive", that would have been OK. But their ad does not show ANY free warranty coverage for the second year - which is misrepresentation. The graphic is pretty much a slam-dunk for showing that Apple is giving false information to consumers.
If you have Apple Care, the law doesn't matter. So long as it wasn't due to damage, Apple has your back.
That's true - only if you have AppleCare. But if you don't have Apple care, you STILL have some coverage for the 2nd year - which is not being advertised by Apple.
You think that central europe did that? Maybe I don't realize it. I don't know where it came from, but a lot of politicians have progressively changed the goals of the EU from being a reunion of peoples that want to share things to a reunion of banks and traders that just want to share money.
The EU is economically becoming more and more like the US, carried over by some other parts of the world who want to take advantage of the crisis to transform our economy in a liberal paradise. That's probably one of the reasons why markets keep on going down even when good measures are taken, they just want to manipulate our governments.
Nothing in the EU get's agreed without Germany, France and the UK. When Euro is involved, the UK is naturally not there. As to banking rules, I'm pretty certain the UK has been in the games being the largest financial center in Europe.
The Nordics for example have been pretty adamant about countries needing to follow the 3% deficit rule, which was supposed to be backed up by fines. But when France and Germany couldn't hold on to it, suddenly there were no fines and the rules got changed (page 266): Milton Friedman and the Euro. Several other examples are readily available. So yes, Central Europe.
I'm not saying the north is perfect, far from it. Just that in this case the reason the north has been trying to get the stricter rules and regulations is that we went through this same problem in the early nineties without help from other countries and know what kind of things led to it. Thus it doesn't make sense that the north would be watering down the rules when they have constantly been vocal about holding on to the three percent rules etc.
Nothing in the EU get's agreed without Germany, France and the UK. When Euro is involved, the UK is naturally not there. As to banking rules, I'm pretty certain the UK has been in the games being the largest financial center in Europe.
The Nordics for example have been pretty adamant about countries needing to follow the 3% deficit rule, which was supposed to be backed up by fines. But when France and Germany couldn't hold on to it, suddenly there were no fines and the rules got changed (page 266): Milton Friedman and the Euro. Several other examples are readily available. So yes, Central Europe.
I'm not saying the north is perfect, far from it. Just that in this case the reason the north has been trying to get the stricter rules and regulations is that we went through this same problem in the early nineties without help from other countries and know what kind of things led to it. Thus it doesn't make sense that the north would be watering down the rules when they have constantly been vocal about holding on to the three percent rules etc.
But this is quite far from the original topic.
Yes, we are pretty of topic (sorry) but I completely agree. The countries that didn't respect the deficit rule should pay.
Everybody mocks the UK in the EU because the UK doesn't seem to care about the idea behind the EU but just about money and how to get the most out of the EU without all the downsides. And I'm not saying this because I live in France, I've seen that in Spain, Italy, Poland and Germany!
Guess what.
The cost of a two year warranty is factored into the price of things you buy.
Now you know why Apple (and other) products cost more in the EU, then due to the price being higher sales taxes are also higher,
So does this cover batteries?
If so you have access to an endless supply of AA & AAA batteries as soon as they go flat.
This seems ridiculous to me. Unless they have audio or video recordings of Apple employees directly lying about the warranty, they haven't got a case at all.
It also makes me wonder (since this is the third time around), why if "everyone knows" that they get two year warranties on everything sold in Italy for free, why the consumer groups have to constantly bring these lawsuits. If people are stupid and don't know about the government mandated warranty situation in their own country, and then furthermore don't read the box where it says the product is under warranty, and then foolishly buy an extended warranty from the Apple sales rep, then they are pretty much deserving of whatever happens.
It's no wonder Italy's economy is the sh*ts when the government forces a two year warranty on every product sold in the entire country. Consumer protection is one thing but two years is absolute idiocy IMO.
And obviously, the same reasoning you apply when considering why Samsung should respect US laws don't apply to why Apple should respect Italia's laws?
I'd say that by your own reasoning, banning Samsung products and suing Samsung "is complete idiocy". After all, the consumer knows he's not buying an Apple iPhone/iPad. <- "Oppa Gazoobee style"
The cost of a two year warranty is factored into the price of things you buy.
Now you know why Apple (and other) products cost more in the EU, then due to the price being higher sales taxes are also higher,
So does this cover batteries?
If so you have access to an endless supply of AA & AAA batteries as soon as they go flat.
You seem to (voluntarily?) misunderstand. The 2y guarantee makes sure that if you open your batteries to find them flat 2 years after buying, they'll be replaced, as they should be.
Guess what, the US also have laws, for example if you get sold an iPad and you actually get a Big Mac with fries, you can sue.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by jahonen
And just who is the financial centre of Europe? Where is most of the European financial speculation performed? Where did a number of big banks crash a few years back? The Euro-zone crisis is just one part of a string that started in the U.S, moved to Europe via?
You see, it ain't all Black&White.
You are damn right it isn't all black and white. What you say above is correct. But also ask who was responsible for allowing countries to join the Euro zone who's finances were clearly unfit, and then turn a blind eye for years as those countries lived well beyond their means? Hint: It wasn't the UK.
The general population of the UK do not really understand the EU, how it works, or how it actually benefits their lives. UK governments have done little to educate them on the subject. Instead, most of what people hear about the EU is from actively anti-EU tabloid newspapers, who run bullshit stories about how the EU wastes their tax money by making laws that regulate how bent bananas should be. (No joke!).
Disclaimer: I am from the UK, but I have lived and worked on the continent for the last 13 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX
Don't get me wrong, I love the UK, it's a beautiful country with a lot of culture and traditions, but I fell that they are not playing the game like most of the other members.
On the contrary. Compared to many EU countries (including France) the UK has a very good record on implementing EU directives and adhering to the 'rules'.
Excellent rebuttal! The post from Gazoobee comes across as incredibly narrow-minded, at least to me. I also don't understand why Apple doesn't grant the mandatory 2 year guarantee on its products. B&O gives 3, and for good reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stike vomit
You are damn right it isn't all black and white. What you say above is correct. But also ask who was responsible for allowing countries to join the Euro zone who's finances were clearly unfit, and then turn a blind eye for years as those countries lived well beyond their means? Hint: It wasn't the UK.
The general population of the UK do not really understand the EU, how it works, or how it actually benefits their lives. UK governments have done little to educate them on the subject. Instead, most of what people hear about the EU is from actively anti-EU tabloid newspapers, who run bullshit stories about how the EU wastes their tax money by making laws that regulate how bent bananas should be. (No joke!).
Disclaimer: I am from the UK, but I have lived and worked on the continent for the last 13 years.
I agree with you all the way there. Being from northern Europe, we have had a really hard time swallowing the fact that central Europe has allowed southern Europe to get away with a completely irresponsible finance management and non-compliance to a wealth of other directives largely due to their and their banks' greed.
EU like all governmental bodies (health&safety overkill in the UK for example) create silly laws to appease some political agenda. But when it comes to protection of consumers and looking after your own citizens, I have a hard time finding places where such protections are stipulated in law in the breath they are in the EU. For me that's a +. The downsides, like straightness of cucumbers and curvature of bananas (which have now been removed btw) are the downsides to the equation which we as citizens need to be active in battling against.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jahonen
I agree with you all the way there. Being from northern Europe, we have had a really hard time swallowing the fact that central Europe has allowed southern Europe to get away with a completely irresponsible finance management and non-compliance to a wealth of other directives largely due to their and their banks' greed.
EU like all governmental bodies (health&safety overkill in the UK for example) create silly laws to appease some political agenda. But when it comes to protection of consumers and looking after your own citizens, I have a hard time finding places where such protections are stipulated in law in the breath they are in the EU. For me that's a +. The downsides, like straightness of cucumbers and curvature of bananas (which have now been removed btw) are the downsides to the equation which we as citizens need to be active in battling against.
You think that central europe did that? Maybe I don't realize it. I don't know where it came from, but a lot of politicians have progressively changed the goals of the EU from being a reunion of peoples that want to share things to a reunion of banks and traders that just want to share money.
The EU is economically becoming more and more like the US, carried over by some other parts of the world who want to take advantage of the crisis to transform our economy in a liberal paradise. That's probably one of the reasons why markets keep on going down even when good measures are taken, they just want to manipulate our governments.
The fact is that the warranty period in Europe is 2 years under at least some conditions per the EU directive. The graphic in this article shows that Apple is telling consumers that they only have a one year warranty and need to buy AppleCare to get a 2nd year of coverage.
Now, if they had made the first year one color - to show essentially full warranty coverage, and then made the second year a different color and labeled it "limited warranty protection per EU directive", that would have been OK. But their ad does not show ANY free warranty coverage for the second year - which is misrepresentation. The graphic is pretty much a slam-dunk for showing that Apple is giving false information to consumers.
That's true - only if you have AppleCare. But if you don't have Apple care, you STILL have some coverage for the 2nd year - which is not being advertised by Apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX
You think that central europe did that? Maybe I don't realize it. I don't know where it came from, but a lot of politicians have progressively changed the goals of the EU from being a reunion of peoples that want to share things to a reunion of banks and traders that just want to share money.
The EU is economically becoming more and more like the US, carried over by some other parts of the world who want to take advantage of the crisis to transform our economy in a liberal paradise. That's probably one of the reasons why markets keep on going down even when good measures are taken, they just want to manipulate our governments.
Nothing in the EU get's agreed without Germany, France and the UK. When Euro is involved, the UK is naturally not there. As to banking rules, I'm pretty certain the UK has been in the games being the largest financial center in Europe.
The Nordics for example have been pretty adamant about countries needing to follow the 3% deficit rule, which was supposed to be backed up by fines. But when France and Germany couldn't hold on to it, suddenly there were no fines and the rules got changed (page 266): Milton Friedman and the Euro. Several other examples are readily available. So yes, Central Europe.
I'm not saying the north is perfect, far from it. Just that in this case the reason the north has been trying to get the stricter rules and regulations is that we went through this same problem in the early nineties without help from other countries and know what kind of things led to it. Thus it doesn't make sense that the north would be watering down the rules when they have constantly been vocal about holding on to the three percent rules etc.
But this is quite far from the original topic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jahonen
Nothing in the EU get's agreed without Germany, France and the UK. When Euro is involved, the UK is naturally not there. As to banking rules, I'm pretty certain the UK has been in the games being the largest financial center in Europe.
The Nordics for example have been pretty adamant about countries needing to follow the 3% deficit rule, which was supposed to be backed up by fines. But when France and Germany couldn't hold on to it, suddenly there were no fines and the rules got changed (page 266): Milton Friedman and the Euro. Several other examples are readily available. So yes, Central Europe.
I'm not saying the north is perfect, far from it. Just that in this case the reason the north has been trying to get the stricter rules and regulations is that we went through this same problem in the early nineties without help from other countries and know what kind of things led to it. Thus it doesn't make sense that the north would be watering down the rules when they have constantly been vocal about holding on to the three percent rules etc.
But this is quite far from the original topic.
Yes, we are pretty of topic (sorry) but I completely agree. The countries that didn't respect the deficit rule should pay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jahonen
...
But this is quite far from the original topic.
Yes, my apologies to all for derailing this thread a bit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX
From the european union internet portal :
http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/shopping/shopping-abroad/guarantees/index_en.htm
Everybody mocks the UK in the EU because the UK doesn't seem to care about the idea behind the EU but just about money and how to get the most out of the EU without all the downsides. And I'm not saying this because I live in France, I've seen that in Spain, Italy, Poland and Germany!
Guess what.
The cost of a two year warranty is factored into the price of things you buy.
Now you know why Apple (and other) products cost more in the EU, then due to the price being higher sales taxes are also higher,
So does this cover batteries?
If so you have access to an endless supply of AA & AAA batteries as soon as they go flat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
This seems ridiculous to me. Unless they have audio or video recordings of Apple employees directly lying about the warranty, they haven't got a case at all.
It also makes me wonder (since this is the third time around), why if "everyone knows" that they get two year warranties on everything sold in Italy for free, why the consumer groups have to constantly bring these lawsuits. If people are stupid and don't know about the government mandated warranty situation in their own country, and then furthermore don't read the box where it says the product is under warranty, and then foolishly buy an extended warranty from the Apple sales rep, then they are pretty much deserving of whatever happens.
It's no wonder Italy's economy is the sh*ts when the government forces a two year warranty on every product sold in the entire country. Consumer protection is one thing but two years is absolute idiocy IMO.
And obviously, the same reasoning you apply when considering why Samsung should respect US laws don't apply to why Apple should respect Italia's laws?
I'd say that by your own reasoning, banning Samsung products and suing Samsung "is complete idiocy". After all, the consumer knows he's not buying an Apple iPhone/iPad. <- "Oppa Gazoobee style"
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60
Guess what.
The cost of a two year warranty is factored into the price of things you buy.
Now you know why Apple (and other) products cost more in the EU, then due to the price being higher sales taxes are also higher,
So does this cover batteries?
If so you have access to an endless supply of AA & AAA batteries as soon as they go flat.
You seem to (voluntarily?) misunderstand. The 2y guarantee makes sure that if you open your batteries to find them flat 2 years after buying, they'll be replaced, as they should be.
Guess what, the US also have laws, for example if you get sold an iPad and you actually get a Big Mac with fries, you can sue.