Apple investigating handwriting and selective touch recognition

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  • Reply 21 of 28
    gazoobeegazoobee Posts: 3,754member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mikeb85 View Post




    Actually there are patents for handwriting recognition that pre-date Apple itself, and there were products that incorporated it that pre-dated the Newton. 



     


    True (ish), but the Newton's handwriting recognition was a giant leap forward and almost the first truly useable handwriting recognition software.  As I already mentioned it also predates all the stuff you mentioned in your first post.  Apple has earlier patents and more important/pivotal patents in this area than pretty much anyone else.  


     


    It's also fairly obvious that the patent in discussion here, is not just "handwriting recognition" in the general sense, but a very specific implementation of some aspects of the display of handwriting on the screen. General prior art for "handwriting recognition" is kind of irrelevant to the discussion.  The question is whether there is prior art for this specific implementation of this specific part of this specific process.  


     


    I'm guessing that since Apple has a complete library of all of their patents (including the Newton ones), in the same room as where they write out the new patents, that perhaps they actually checked for this specific prior art.  

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  • Reply 22 of 28
    gazoobeegazoobee Posts: 3,754member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mikeb85 View Post




    No, but odds are with so much prior art (dating back to the 1950's), Apple will have a tough time proving their patent is different enough...


     


    Using a stylus with a computer was one of the very first techniques to interact with a computer, pre-dating the mouse.



     


    I think you are completely wrong about this.  Reading a few historical notes from the wiki is not the same thing as having knowledge of the situation.  


     


    The prior art you mention from the 50's was simply "pen input" prior art not handwriting recognition.  True handwriting recognition didn't really happen until about 1970.  Even though it was *possible* in the 70's, almost all use of "pens" in use in the 70's were actually light pens used on CRT screens.


     


    Handwriting recognition didn't become even remotely useable until the 80's and the Newton platform introduced in the mid 80's was the first actually useable system for consumers.  

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  • Reply 23 of 28

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


     


    I think you are completely wrong about this.  Reading a few historical notes from the wiki is not the same thing as having knowledge of the situation.  


     


    The prior art you mention from the 50's was simply "pen input" prior art not handwriting recognition.  True handwriting recognition didn't really happen until about 1970.  Even though it was *possible* in the 70's, almost all use of "pens" in use in the 70's were actually light pens used on CRT screens.


     


    Handwriting recognition didn't become even remotely useable until the 80's and the Newton platform introduced in the mid 80's was the first actually useable system for consumers.  



    The point is that this specific patent was filed in 2011, and there is prior art for this specific functionality.  


     


    You also can't claim that the Newton was the first with stylus functionality, because it wasn't.  


     


    If Apple had invented this specific functionality in the 1980's they should have filed the patent then, but they didn't.  This specific patent already exists in many usable and functional forms.  

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  • Reply 24 of 28

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post





    How's it any different from the Apple camp saying that writing on a touchscreen was pointless fluff, old tech, obsolete, and ridiculing anyone that suggests the iPad come with a stylus?


     


    You might want to ask that question based on something they actually said. Because no one at Apple has said any such thing. Not even close. Prime example of folks taking a comment way way the hell out of context. 


     


    Jobs never said that using a stylus or writing on a touchscreen is pointless etc. He was speaking of having to have a stylus or the device doesn't work at all. Which was the state of things at the time that the iPhone was first released. Given the absurdity of such a state, they created the iPhone etc so that the only 'stylus' you had to have was a finger. But from day one, if you wanted to use a stylus you could. The devices support the use, but don't require it. And because a stylus is not required, of course Apple isn't going to make one or put it in the box. 


     


    This patent and the tech is valid whether you are using a finger or a stylus and its not a real shock to see it in their bag of tricks given that they have customers sign for repairs, credit card purchases etc right on their iPads and iPods. Those are considered legally binding documents and they would want a proper signature so they can hold the customer to that document if pressed. If the signature can't possibly be correct because the tech isn't good enough that's an issue for Apple to solve. 


     


    As for the fan camp, yes it is ridiculous to suggest that the iPad etc needs to come with a stylus that is not required for use. Sorry if your feelings are hurt over those comments when you thought folks would think you are brilliant but Apple should not have to do something simply because you are too cheap and/or lazy to buy an optional stylus separately

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  • Reply 25 of 28

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


     


    I agree.  Finger-paintings by famous artists aside, the iPad is just not good for drawing, and until you can use a stylus in the same way as you would in real life, it never will be.  



     


    I call you out on that one. Because it is just fine. With your finger or with the current styluses. If YOU can't do it then that speaks to the artists skills, not the tools. 

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  • Reply 26 of 28
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    charlituna wrote: »
    You might want to ask that question based on something they actually said. Because no one at Apple has said any such thing. Not even close. Prime example of folks taking a comment way way the hell out of context. 

    Jobs never said that using a stylus or writing on a touchscreen is pointless etc. He was speaking of having to have a stylus or the device doesn't work at all. Which was the state of things at the time that the iPhone was first released. Given the absurdity of such a state, they created the iPhone etc so that the only 'stylus' you had to have was a finger. But from day one, if you wanted to use a stylus you could. The devices support the use, but don't require it. And because a stylus is not required, of course Apple isn't going to make one or put it in the box. 

    This patent and the tech is valid whether you are using a finger or a stylus and its not a real shock to see it in their bag of tricks given that they have customers sign for repairs, credit card purchases etc right on their iPads and iPods. Those are considered legally binding documents and they would want a proper signature so they can hold the customer to that document if pressed. If the signature can't possibly be correct because the tech isn't good enough that's an issue for Apple to solve. 

    As for the fan camp, yes it is ridiculous to suggest that the iPad etc needs to come with a stylus that is not required for use. Sorry if your feelings are hurt over those comments when you thought folks would think you are brilliant but Apple should not have to do something simply because you are too cheap and/or lazy to buy an optional stylus separately

    Again I didn't mean anyone from Apple, and yes SJ's comments have been taken to the extreme. The Samsung Galaxy Note line of devices has been ridiculed for including a stylus and even fellow Apple devotees have been lambasted for suggesting a stylus can be very useful for certain tasks. Notice how this thread has been very quiet. Why do you think that is? Btw I'm not so feeble minded that anything said here could hurt my feelings, but thanks for your concern.
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  • Reply 27 of 28

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mikeb85 View Post




    No, but odds are with so much prior art (dating back to the 1950's), Apple will have a tough time proving their patent is different enough...


     


    Using a stylus with a computer was one of the very first techniques to interact with a computer, pre-dating the mouse.



     


    They had electricity back then???!!!!

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  • Reply 28 of 28
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,679member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


     


    True (ish), but the Newton's handwriting recognition was a giant leap forward and almost the first truly useable handwriting recognition software.  As I already mentioned it also predates all the stuff you mentioned in your first post.  Apple has earlier patents and more important/pivotal patents in this area than pretty much anyone else.  


     


    It's also fairly obvious that the patent in discussion here, is not just "handwriting recognition" in the general sense, but a very specific implementation of some aspects of the display of handwriting on the screen. General prior art for "handwriting recognition" is kind of irrelevant to the discussion.  The question is whether there is prior art for this specific implementation of this specific part of this specific process.  


     


    I'm guessing that since Apple has a complete library of all of their patents (including the Newton ones), in the same room as where they write out the new patents, that perhaps they actually checked for this specific prior art.  



    As an aside you should take a look at the GridPad and it's interface/features from 1989. See a little of the Newton (which came later) there?

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