Display expert refutes Microsoft claim that Surface RT display is "sharper" than iPad

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 71

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GTR View Post


     


    Fixed that for you.



     


    That my good sir was brilliant!!

  • Reply 22 of 71
    They really don't get it. Design is all about how it works - from the ecosystem (apps) down to user's overall experience.

    M$ $urface may have the super-duper-cleartype LCD tech..badabingbadaboom..and then what?
  • Reply 23 of 71

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by imgmkr View Post



    interesting point...

    so Surface is for horizontal usage.


     


    From what I've seen, you need to go into the "Settings" control and tell the Surface Win 8 tablet that you want to run in Portrait mode, then close the control application and voilá, you are there... instantly! 


     


    Only Microsoft could innovate a solution for quickly changing from Landscape to Portrait... never again will you have the dizzyining experience of the display flipping from one mode to the other while handling the iDevice. 

  • Reply 24 of 71


    Not surprised at all. Move along.

  • Reply 25 of 71

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Shunnabunich View Post


    Now that, I don't quite get. Would it really be impossible to keep subpixel rendering independent of the screen orientation?



    It's not.  Whether or not MS has implemented it in both orientations is anyone's guess.


     


    I don't really know why everyone here is crapping on subpixel rendering.  It's a pretty cool technology and probably does help clarity.

  • Reply 26 of 71
    will dorin wrote: »
    It's not.  Whether or not MS has implemented it in both orientations is anyone's guess.

    I don't really know why everyone here is crapping on subpixel rendering.  It's a pretty cool technology and probably does help clarity.

    They really aren't harping on the technology itself, more that Microsoft is claiming/claimed that a device with half the dpi is going to look better than the ipad3 screen, by using some slight of hand.
  • Reply 27 of 71
    dcj001dcj001 Posts: 301member


    I have heard that the Surface looks pretty good, as long as it doesn't lock up:


     


    (as shown in ten seconds through the end of the video).


     


  • Reply 28 of 71

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Will Dorin View Post


    It's not.  Whether or not MS has implemented it in both orientations is anyone's guess.


     


    I don't really know why everyone here is crapping on subpixel rendering.  It's a pretty cool technology and probably does help clarity.



     


    Microsoft appreciates your faith. Now go buy a Windows 8 PEECEE and make Ballmer proud!

  • Reply 29 of 71
    If them iPad minis come in a bunch of colors all hell is going to break loose up in this bi***!
  • Reply 30 of 71

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Shunnabunich View Post


    Now that, I don't quite get. Would it really be impossible to keep subpixel rendering independent of the screen orientation?



     


    I think the concept is valid, but breaks down when subjected to Microsoft's handling of fonts. My understanding:


     


    In normal landscape mode, the display subpixels are arranged horizontally. With Microsoft's ClearType approach, the horizontal lines in glyphs are forced to align with physical pixels, while the vertical ones are aligned to sub-pixels, i.e., 1/3rd pixel. Diagonals or curves are essentially anti-alised on this grid. With western languages (and probably most other horizontally-arranged writing systems) the horizontal lines are more consistently placed and therefore more important. Verticals may be a little blurry, but they aren't consistently placed and therefore not as important. This does result in very minimal color fringing, but the human eye is not very sensitive to color detail, and this is usually not noticable. However, this can cause fonts to oddly change proprotion when chanign between small sizes; the same font at 8 and 10 point can look noticably different from each other and from a printed page.


     


    I don't think ClearType handles rotated displays well at all. At work I have a 2-monitor Windows7 machine, and I recently started using one monitor in portrait to get more effective area for reading PDF documents. I immediately noticed that small text looked very indistict. Fortunately, most of the stuff I am looking at is large enough text or documents that I can live with it for the productivity boost... but GRRR!


     


    The problem is that Microsoft still needs to keep a consistent letter shape. This forces thethe horizontals to a full pixel, and the verticals to a 1/3rd pixel. However, as it cannot display the 1/3rd pixel, they get ani-aliased, and look very blurry. If they aligned text to the sub-pixels this way, fonts would look very different based on screen orientation, and generally worse for the majority of users.


     


    Apple's font rendering displays the fonts without the adjustments, but I believe does use sub-pixel anti-aliasing. Individual letters may not look as "crisp" as on Windows with a given resolution, but overall are more consistent with different font sizes and when printed. This works with either orientation as well. Use of a Retina display resolves the crispness complaint.


     


    I went looking for comparisons, and found this article. I haven't read it in detail, but it looks informative:


    http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2012/04/24/a-closer-look-at-font-rendering/

  • Reply 31 of 71
    macrulezmacrulez Posts: 2,455member


    deleted

  • Reply 32 of 71


    Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

    Great post, because that could never happen with an iPad.


     


    Hmm. That search isn't for "iPad locking up on stage during its introduction".


     


    Maybe it should be, if you weren't just lashing out in anger.

  • Reply 33 of 71
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    Does Surface have a gyroscope?
  • Reply 34 of 71


    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

    Does Surface have a gyroscope?


     


    Yes. Hardware-wise, it's really similar to the iPad. The pooch is only screwed in the fact that it's running Windows, which is inexcusably pathetic, and the design is unusable. Windows has a domino effect whereby its laughable power management will ruin the battery life (neither model's is even stated yet), etc. 

  • Reply 35 of 71
    will dorin wrote: »
    Now that, I don't quite get. Would it really be impossible to keep subpixel rendering independent of the screen orientation?
    It's not.  Whether or not MS has implemented it in both orientations is anyone's guess.

    I don't really know why everyone here is crapping on subpixel rendering.  It's a pretty cool technology and probably does help clarity.

    Wouldn't that depend upon the physical juxtaposition of the subpixels to one another?

    Wouldn't that be different in portrait and landscape modes?
  • Reply 36 of 71
    gtrgtr Posts: 3,231member
    That my good sir was brilliant!!

    As was yours... ;-)
  • Reply 37 of 71
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DCJ001 View Post


    I have heard that the Surface looks pretty good, as long as it doesn't lock up:


     


    (as shown in ten seconds through the end of the video).


     




     


    It was lucky he had a back up unit there, ready and waiting for just such an unexpected occurrence.

  • Reply 38 of 71
    Help me understand this........

    I understand the tech behind all the pixels and whatnot.....

    But.....

    I just realized that I have never seen a picture of the Surface or any Windows RT/8 tablet on any news or tech website.....

    In portrait orientation.....

    What the hell?

    Anyone have any non photoshopped links...

    I use an iPad in portrait mode 95% of the time, like right now.

    I don't read books or websites in landscape mode...

    What is the tech or marketing thinking behind always showing the device in landscape mode?

    Are they tryinging to convey the message that you can use it like a laptop? Are they implying that users need a keyboard??? Will most consumers use it on a table or handheld?

    Does it suck in portrait mode and that's why they have allowed very little hands on demos?

    I'm sincerely interested in this....

    Amazon mostly shows their devices in portrait mode while other Android manufacturers display their products in landscape. Amazon has a goal of emphasizing ebooks. The others don't seem to know how to tell consumers how to use thei tablets.

    Any ideas?
  • Reply 39 of 71

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    Yes. Hardware-wise, it's really similar to the iPad. The pooch is only screwed in the fact that it's running Windows, which is inexcusably pathetic, and the design is unusable. Windows has a domino effect whereby its laughable power management will ruin the battery life (neither model's is even stated yet), etc. 



     


    http://www.microsoft.com/Surface/en-US/surface-with-windows-rt/help-me-choose


     


    They have talked about teh RT one for awhile now.

  • Reply 40 of 71


    Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

    They have talked about teh RT one for awhile now.


     


    Where? 

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