Now that I got Gauntlet Dark Legacy to work on my current Mac mini, I do not have to worry too much about graphics. Having said that, I still want to care about graphics and have something really great to play a good game (whenever that game arrives) on.
Now that I got Gauntlet Dark Legacy to work on my current Mac mini, I do not have to worry too much about graphics. Having said that, I still want to care about graphics and have something really great to play a good game (whenever that game arrives) on.
If you are focused in gaming a Mac Mini with an AMD APU might make sense. Of course Apple doesn't make such a beast but even with Haswell Intel still trails AMD by a significant margin in GPU performance, especially for gaming. AMD's Richland variant can be anywhere from 25% to 50% faster than Intels GPUs. Of course that performance does mean more heat. So even though Haswells GPUs are much improved over Intel previous efforts they still aren't optimal for low cost high performance GPU based computing. Anandtech isn't a site I regularly reccomend but they have a Richland review up where you can see the battle between the two platforms.
In any event if your machine is handling current games I'd relax and enjoy until it doesn't. The goodness of Haswell will take a while to jell if you will. New drivers will likely get revved a few times until the hardware is fully exploited. Plus I'm still expecting more Haswell hardware to trickle out of Intel this year. Plus Haswell has features it may take awhile for the operating system to fully exploit.
I won't hold my breath but I am waiting for a few really good RPGs to drop on the PC. Some guys who used to work at Blizzard made a similar game to Diablo and I may check it out, we'll see.
The Iris Pro is going to be the big thing for me. I really would like to see it go into the quad core mini.
Wiz wanted a particular kind of pony, he got it at the expense of folks who liked the old pony. Who knows, maybe they'll spec bump the Mac Pro classic one last time but I doubt it.
Me, I got what I wanted too...it'll probably just cost a little more but even the base model will be faster than what I was hoping in a Mac Mini Pro. (E3 Haswell Xeon 1265L v3, a 750M, 2 SSD stick slots and 4 ECC RAM slots for $1999.).
I don't think the base model will be $1999 even if 4 core. If we're lucky we'll keep the $2499 price point with a single mid grade GPU. If marketed as a Mac Mini Pro we might have seen a sub-2K price point being non-expandable and all.
The thing is tiny and perfect for me IF I can get one for under 3K. Otherwise I'll get a MBP.
Why wouldn't they use a chip with Iris or Iris Pro? As for your questions about specific chips, I'm just not that excited over Intels marketing the same damn chip 100 different ways.
I look at this way, an ideal Mini these days needs four real cores to make the machine acceptable to a wide array of users. Four cores seem to be in the sweet spot where many apps benefit yet we don't end up with useless hardware for the majority of users.
As for a GPU, while Intel has vastly improved its GPU it still gets slaughtered by discrete offerings. I'd love to see a Mini with discrete GPU but tend to believe that we won't ever see them in this platform again. The little box doesn't have the power supply and thermal capacity apparently.
I'm so bummed by this realization that frankly my desire for an XMac is growing. Ideally what Apple could offer up XMac wise is a cut down Mac Pro. Literally cut the machine down in size so that it is maybe six inches tall, put a desktop Haswell processor in there coupled to a Southern Islands GPU of around 75 watts. One GPU would be fine as long as it can drive Apples coming retina displays. This would give us a "mainstream" desktop that could easily come into the same price range as the upper end Mini. The third wall of the thermal core might even allow the mounting of a magnetic drive to supplement the SSD.
I'm trying not to dis the Mini here but its major problem is the thermal limitations it has and will always have. Frankly the gap between what the Mini can do and what the New Mac Pro can do has just gotten bigger. Dual high performance GPUs put up against integrated Intel GPUs is actually funny. Depending upon how the new Mac Pro is marketed demand for an XMac might actually grow. It really depends upon the new Pros entry point.
It isn't on sale due to a rather pathetic attempt at protectionism. You guys need to get your government under control.
*grins. Follow the money trail, Wizard. *Points to that 'American' institution the 'Federal Reserve...'
Or the NDDA act that was signed quietly in by the 'great hope' a mere half a year ago...during Thanksgiving...?
From the 'country' that had Lincoln and Kennedy whacked...(I wonder why...)
Or guantanamo bay...which is a human rights outrage...
Still, you won't find me sticking up for the E.U. I hope it comes crashing down. We ought to follow Iceland's example and give the banks the 'finger' and take threats of 'marshall law' with the contempt they deserve.
Shame Ron Paul didn't make it during the 'big 6 media' white wash of his campaign. He'd have still been up against it even IF he'd have made it to office.
If you are focused in gaming a Mac Mini with an AMD APU might make sense. Of course Apple doesn't make such a beast but even with Haswell Intel still trails AMD by a significant margin in GPU performance, especially for gaming. AMD's Richland variant can be anywhere from 25% to 50% faster than Intels GPUs. Of course that performance does mean more heat. So even though Haswells GPUs are much improved over Intel previous efforts they still aren't optimal for low cost high performance GPU based computing. Anandtech isn't a site I regularly reccomend but they have a Richland review up where you can see the battle between the two platforms.
In any event if your machine is handling current games I'd relax and enjoy until it doesn't. The goodness of Haswell will take a while to jell if you will. New drivers will likely get revved a few times until the hardware is fully exploited. Plus I'm still expecting more Haswell hardware to trickle out of Intel this year. Plus Haswell has features it may take awhile for the operating system to fully exploit.
Nice idea. Aint going to happen. More heat? Def' aint going to happen.
Opterons look good bang for buck on Mac Pro. But teh Opterons aint going to happen either.
AMD for gpus? Sure. In the Pro. Or iMac.
Looks like Iris for Air. Iris for Mac Mini.
Given the emphasis on GPUs with Pro...be nice to see Apple put a damn good gpu in the Mini. Could be a killer little machine. But Apple are still playing their 'upsell' games. Nickle and dime...
Why wouldn't they use a chip with Iris or Iris Pro? As for your questions about specific chips, I'm just not that excited over Intels marketing the same damn chip 100 different ways.
I look at this way, an ideal Mini these days needs four real cores to make the machine acceptable to a wide array of users. Four cores seem to be in the sweet spot where many apps benefit yet we don't end up with useless hardware for the majority of users.
As for a GPU, while Intel has vastly improved its GPU it still gets slaughtered by discrete offerings. I'd love to see a Mini with discrete GPU but tend to believe that we won't ever see them in this platform again. The little box doesn't have the power supply and thermal capacity apparently.
I'm so bummed by this realization that frankly my desire for an XMac is growing. Ideally what Apple could offer up XMac wise is a cut down Mac Pro. Literally cut the machine down in size so that it is maybe six inches tall, put a desktop Haswell processor in there coupled to a Southern Islands GPU of around 75 watts. One GPU would be fine as long as it can drive Apples coming retina displays. This would give us a "mainstream" desktop that could easily come into the same price range as the upper end Mini. The third wall of the thermal core might even allow the mounting of a magnetic drive to supplement the SSD.
I'm trying not to dis the Mini here but its major problem is the thermal limitations it has and will always have. Frankly the gap between what the Mini can do and what the New Mac Pro can do has just gotten bigger. Dual high performance GPUs put up against integrated Intel GPUs is actually funny. Depending upon how the new Mac Pro is marketed demand for an XMac might actually grow. It really depends upon the new Pros entry point.
You're going to have a few choices.
The New Mac Pro.
Too expensive? Wait a couple of years and get a used/refurb one.
or 'Hope' Apple gets you a nice entry model for about £1495-£1695. (We'll see if they pass the savings on that giant case to the customer...don't hold your breath...they cut the DVD in the imac and bumped the entry price...and still charged £65 for the DVD player...bloody cheeky that is...)
The Iris/Iris Pro going into the new Mini should do just fine with Hi Def 3D content. Medium level on games...3D apps. 30-60fps. I'm guessing from the demos I've seen. The new Air gives a few clues...
Be nice if they could put an Nvidia 'M' gpu in the top end model. Again, let's not hold our breath.
You could always plump for a retina Macbook Pro (given that you already, strangely have a Macbook Pro 2008 model?)
Why not just go for the new Air? Fantastic battery life...decent gpu and cpu...basically what the Mini will be when Apple gets around to releasing it...
Will the mini be anything but nominally more powerful?
Or just save (if you've been waiting since 2008...surely you've been saving for a new Mac...and just go all out and get the new Mac Pro? Put down a cash deposit and pay the rest over 12 months...)
I took advantage of the % to get the new iMac. Good deal.
If they can include it in the Air...why not the Mini AND the iMac given what they are asking you to pay?
For the bump in entry price of £100 they could have included a 256 gig SSD...
Lemon Bon Bon.
If the costs lined up, they could do fusion drive standard or eventually move to hybrid drives in these models. The problems with ssds is capacity. In the mac pro they're betting on centralized or at storage.
If the costs lined up, they could do fusion drive standard or eventually move to hybrid drives in these models. The problems with ssds is capacity. In the mac pro they're betting on centralized or at storage.
Capacity is an issue but you also have the issue of wear which small capacity drives have less ability to resist. In some sorts of server based usage, SSDs are known to wear out. Obviously this isn't a big issue with the Mini, except for when it is pressed into server duties it isn't well engineered for.
On the Mac Pro I don't see them betting at all, most users with high storage capacity needs are already using attached storage. Likewise many users are already required to make use of centralized storage. The only people that really loose are those that got by with just the internal expansion capability of the old Mac Pro. I'd be the first to admit that those are a significant number of users, but we will only know the full impact after the complete Mac Pro system debuts. That is I fully expect that the Mac Pro will be paired with some sort of low cost Apple storage array.
Iris Pro graphics in this year's Mac mini could carry me 2-3 years at the very least possibly more.
It is a feature that is certainly worth waiting for. Still the big issue in my mind is drivers. It looks like Mavericks will finally address some of those issues as it looks like Apple will be shipping a complete version of OpenGL for one. I still don't know if they will resolve the OpenCL issues though. I'm very much in a wait and see mode right now.
Comments
If you are focused in gaming a Mac Mini with an AMD APU might make sense. Of course Apple doesn't make such a beast but even with Haswell Intel still trails AMD by a significant margin in GPU performance, especially for gaming. AMD's Richland variant can be anywhere from 25% to 50% faster than Intels GPUs. Of course that performance does mean more heat. So even though Haswells GPUs are much improved over Intel previous efforts they still aren't optimal for low cost high performance GPU based computing. Anandtech isn't a site I regularly reccomend but they have a Richland review up where you can see the battle between the two platforms.
In any event if your machine is handling current games I'd relax and enjoy until it doesn't. The goodness of Haswell will take a while to jell if you will. New drivers will likely get revved a few times until the hardware is fully exploited. Plus I'm still expecting more Haswell hardware to trickle out of Intel this year. Plus Haswell has features it may take awhile for the operating system to fully exploit.
The Iris Pro is going to be the big thing for me. I really would like to see it go into the quad core mini.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
If you are focused in gaming a Mac Mini with an AMD APU might make sense.
Well you got your wish...
What do you mean?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter
What do you mean?
Wiz wanted a particular kind of pony, he got it at the expense of folks who liked the old pony. Who knows, maybe they'll spec bump the Mac Pro classic one last time but I doubt it.
Me, I got what I wanted too...it'll probably just cost a little more but even the base model will be faster than what I was hoping in a Mac Mini Pro. (E3 Haswell Xeon 1265L v3, a 750M, 2 SSD stick slots and 4 ECC RAM slots for $1999.).
I don't think the base model will be $1999 even if 4 core. If we're lucky we'll keep the $2499 price point with a single mid grade GPU. If marketed as a Mac Mini Pro we might have seen a sub-2K price point being non-expandable and all.
The thing is tiny and perfect for me IF I can get one for under 3K. Otherwise I'll get a MBP.
Why wouldn't they use a chip with Iris or Iris Pro? As for your questions about specific chips, I'm just not that excited over Intels marketing the same damn chip 100 different ways.
I look at this way, an ideal Mini these days needs four real cores to make the machine acceptable to a wide array of users. Four cores seem to be in the sweet spot where many apps benefit yet we don't end up with useless hardware for the majority of users.
As for a GPU, while Intel has vastly improved its GPU it still gets slaughtered by discrete offerings. I'd love to see a Mini with discrete GPU but tend to believe that we won't ever see them in this platform again. The little box doesn't have the power supply and thermal capacity apparently.
I'm so bummed by this realization that frankly my desire for an XMac is growing. Ideally what Apple could offer up XMac wise is a cut down Mac Pro. Literally cut the machine down in size so that it is maybe six inches tall, put a desktop Haswell processor in there coupled to a Southern Islands GPU of around 75 watts. One GPU would be fine as long as it can drive Apples coming retina displays. This would give us a "mainstream" desktop that could easily come into the same price range as the upper end Mini. The third wall of the thermal core might even allow the mounting of a magnetic drive to supplement the SSD.
I'm trying not to dis the Mini here but its major problem is the thermal limitations it has and will always have. Frankly the gap between what the Mini can do and what the New Mac Pro can do has just gotten bigger. Dual high performance GPUs put up against integrated Intel GPUs is actually funny. Depending upon how the new Mac Pro is marketed demand for an XMac might actually grow. It really depends upon the new Pros entry point.
Quote:
It isn't on sale due to a rather pathetic attempt at protectionism. You guys need to get your government under control.
*grins. Follow the money trail, Wizard. *Points to that 'American' institution the 'Federal Reserve...'
Or the NDDA act that was signed quietly in by the 'great hope' a mere half a year ago...during Thanksgiving...?
From the 'country' that had Lincoln and Kennedy whacked...(I wonder why...)
Or guantanamo bay...which is a human rights outrage...
Still, you won't find me sticking up for the E.U. I hope it comes crashing down. We ought to follow Iceland's example and give the banks the 'finger' and take threats of 'marshall law' with the contempt they deserve.
Shame Ron Paul didn't make it during the 'big 6 media' white wash of his campaign. He'd have still been up against it even IF he'd have made it to office.
Anyway...back on thread...
Lemon Bon Bon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
If you are focused in gaming a Mac Mini with an AMD APU might make sense. Of course Apple doesn't make such a beast but even with Haswell Intel still trails AMD by a significant margin in GPU performance, especially for gaming. AMD's Richland variant can be anywhere from 25% to 50% faster than Intels GPUs. Of course that performance does mean more heat. So even though Haswells GPUs are much improved over Intel previous efforts they still aren't optimal for low cost high performance GPU based computing. Anandtech isn't a site I regularly reccomend but they have a Richland review up where you can see the battle between the two platforms.
In any event if your machine is handling current games I'd relax and enjoy until it doesn't. The goodness of Haswell will take a while to jell if you will. New drivers will likely get revved a few times until the hardware is fully exploited. Plus I'm still expecting more Haswell hardware to trickle out of Intel this year. Plus Haswell has features it may take awhile for the operating system to fully exploit.
Nice idea. Aint going to happen. More heat? Def' aint going to happen.
Opterons look good bang for buck on Mac Pro. But teh Opterons aint going to happen either.
AMD for gpus? Sure. In the Pro. Or iMac.
Looks like Iris for Air. Iris for Mac Mini.
Given the emphasis on GPUs with Pro...be nice to see Apple put a damn good gpu in the Mini. Could be a killer little machine. But Apple are still playing their 'upsell' games. Nickle and dime...
Lemon Bon Bon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
Why wouldn't they use a chip with Iris or Iris Pro? As for your questions about specific chips, I'm just not that excited over Intels marketing the same damn chip 100 different ways.
I look at this way, an ideal Mini these days needs four real cores to make the machine acceptable to a wide array of users. Four cores seem to be in the sweet spot where many apps benefit yet we don't end up with useless hardware for the majority of users.
As for a GPU, while Intel has vastly improved its GPU it still gets slaughtered by discrete offerings. I'd love to see a Mini with discrete GPU but tend to believe that we won't ever see them in this platform again. The little box doesn't have the power supply and thermal capacity apparently.
I'm so bummed by this realization that frankly my desire for an XMac is growing. Ideally what Apple could offer up XMac wise is a cut down Mac Pro. Literally cut the machine down in size so that it is maybe six inches tall, put a desktop Haswell processor in there coupled to a Southern Islands GPU of around 75 watts. One GPU would be fine as long as it can drive Apples coming retina displays. This would give us a "mainstream" desktop that could easily come into the same price range as the upper end Mini. The third wall of the thermal core might even allow the mounting of a magnetic drive to supplement the SSD.
I'm trying not to dis the Mini here but its major problem is the thermal limitations it has and will always have. Frankly the gap between what the Mini can do and what the New Mac Pro can do has just gotten bigger. Dual high performance GPUs put up against integrated Intel GPUs is actually funny. Depending upon how the new Mac Pro is marketed demand for an XMac might actually grow. It really depends upon the new Pros entry point.
You're going to have a few choices.
The New Mac Pro.
Too expensive? Wait a couple of years and get a used/refurb one.
or 'Hope' Apple gets you a nice entry model for about £1495-£1695. (We'll see if they pass the savings on that giant case to the customer...don't hold your breath...they cut the DVD in the imac and bumped the entry price...and still charged £65 for the DVD player...bloody cheeky that is...)
The Iris/Iris Pro going into the new Mini should do just fine with Hi Def 3D content. Medium level on games...3D apps. 30-60fps. I'm guessing from the demos I've seen. The new Air gives a few clues...
Be nice if they could put an Nvidia 'M' gpu in the top end model. Again, let's not hold our breath.
You could always plump for a retina Macbook Pro (given that you already, strangely have a Macbook Pro 2008 model?)
Why not just go for the new Air? Fantastic battery life...decent gpu and cpu...basically what the Mini will be when Apple gets around to releasing it...
Will the mini be anything but nominally more powerful?
Or just save (if you've been waiting since 2008...surely you've been saving for a new Mac...and just go all out and get the new Mac Pro? Put down a cash deposit and pay the rest over 12 months...)
I took advantage of the % to get the new iMac. Good deal.
Lemon Bon Bon.
http://www.barefeats.com/imac12p1.html
That iMac is looking good vs the hexcore too.
Good job they finally got around to releasing a new Pro in half a year's time.
Lemon Bon Bon.
http://www.barefeats.com/imac12p2.html
...and the iMac comes with a stunning display. I wonder what price you have to pay to beat the display that's included in the iMac?
iMac wish list?
New Hexcore cpu. And faster gpu!
oh...and Retina!!! (2014?)
Lemon Bon Bon.
...yeah...and SSD as STANDARD.
If they can include it in the Air...why not the Mini AND the iMac given what they are asking you to pay?
For the bump in entry price of £100 they could have included a 256 gig SSD...
Lemon Bon Bon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon.
...yeah...and SSD as STANDARD.
If they can include it in the Air...why not the Mini AND the iMac given what they are asking you to pay?
For the bump in entry price of £100 they could have included a 256 gig SSD...
Lemon Bon Bon.
If the costs lined up, they could do fusion drive standard or eventually move to hybrid drives in these models. The problems with ssds is capacity. In the mac pro they're betting on centralized or at storage.
Capacity is an issue but you also have the issue of wear which small capacity drives have less ability to resist. In some sorts of server based usage, SSDs are known to wear out. Obviously this isn't a big issue with the Mini, except for when it is pressed into server duties it isn't well engineered for.
On the Mac Pro I don't see them betting at all, most users with high storage capacity needs are already using attached storage. Likewise many users are already required to make use of centralized storage. The only people that really loose are those that got by with just the internal expansion capability of the old Mac Pro. I'd be the first to admit that those are a significant number of users, but we will only know the full impact after the complete Mac Pro system debuts. That is I fully expect that the Mac Pro will be paired with some sort of low cost Apple storage array.
It is a feature that is certainly worth waiting for. Still the big issue in my mind is drivers. It looks like Mavericks will finally address some of those issues as it looks like Apple will be shipping a complete version of OpenGL for one. I still don't know if they will resolve the OpenCL issues though. I'm very much in a wait and see mode right now.