Look at it this way, a new iPhone requires complete reworking of the production line.
That's because they have to ship 100 million units a year though, not 0.5 million and there's a display process involved. With the Mac Pro and Mini, it's just machining the cases separately and then the conveyer belt moves them down the line for hand-assembly.
The easiest setup would be to have it so that most parts connect to a small metal frame like the PSU, motherboard with soldered RAM and HDD. Then slot this into the case, screw on the back, screw on the fan, Airport and cover and that's it ready to ship. Each one should take under 10 minutes to assemble. If they allow 20 minutes per unit, say 8 hour shifts, that's just over 200 staff needed to handle assembly.
They are really proud of their "Assembled in the USA" mark and I reckon they'll try to get this on their products wherever they can.
I'm really perplexed with your non sense in this forum. I specifically excluded less demanding users from the picture. That isn't FUD it is an accurate representation of the product. The reality is the majority of Mini owners fit into that less demanding category.
I really fail to see how anything I've said is FUD, in fact I generally praise the Haswell GPUs as being a big step forward.
The bolded part is FUD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
Right now the Minis have only adequate GPU performance for less demanding users. If you want to drive a 30" display I'd highly recommend waiting for a Mini with an Iris or Iris Pro or better GPU. It isn't a given that the Mini is good enough for that display or will be even with Haswell or something better. Rather it depends very much upon how you intend to use that machine.
The mini can drive the 30" ACD today. There are always use cases that will drive any machine to it's knees. The HD4000 is not a gaming GPU. This is well known but the resolution of the 30" ACD is not an issue.
Implying that he cannot use his 30" ACD with the current Mini is FUD Implying that even a Haswell mini with a HD4600 might not be capable of driving a 30" ACD is FUD. It IS a given that a 4600 equipped Mini will be able to drive a 30" ACD.
Christ. Given that folks regularly run Photoshop on their older 2012 13" MBPrs the Mini GPU is good enough for many uses cases beyond "less demanding". Granted out of the box it's pixel doubled but folks have forced their MBPr into native by various means. Like in some games:
Now the game might be scaling too or just lying to him but it's playing.
No buckets in an Apple factory!????. Seriously though parts handling is a big factor in the success of modern production lines. Often the mechanical systems are custom tailored to the parts in question.
It's funny. I'm such a nerd that when I read buckets, I thought of renderers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
Funny thing here is that, that is exactly what I thought I said, effectively saying it is suitable for less demanding users.
My point was that I wouldn't be concerned with what display the user intends to use. If they wanted to game at high settings on that thing or move around a really heavy CAD file, that could easily displace a number of machine options. I don't know that I would feel any different suggesting an iris pro mini vs an HD 4000 mini just based on the display they intend to use. The one exception would be when it's a matter of whether a feature is supported. If the user intends to purchase a 4K display over the life of that machine, they won't find it supported at 60Hz. There have been things like 10 bit displayport 1.2 drivers on Windows. Only certain cards supported them. Outside of that kind of stuff, it's at a point where I focus more on the software used, and it's really really divided in terms of what makes good use of certain features like OpenCL as opposed to little nice to have things that are sped up for maybe 3% of the time you spend in a given application.
I think the Mac Mini will still be assembled in China unfortunately.That stinks!
You're right although while I am a huge proponent of buying American whenever possible, I realize that not everything can be made in America and that yes many things will still be made in China.
I bought a Nintendo 2DS and it was made in China. Nintendo products used to be made in Japan although I have learned from people that at one time post World War II, Japan was basically the China of today (minus the unhealthy food they shipped) in terms of appliances.
I bought a Nintendo 2DS and it was made in China. Nintendo products used to be made in Japan although I have learned from people that at one time post World War II, Japan was basically the China of today (minus the unhealthy food they shipped) in terms of appliances.
That isn't a good comparison really. Japan had to completely rebuild their economy after WW2. China's march to industrialization has come about due to other factors but they have always had some amount of industry there. You don't have a country of billions without industry. The difference with China is the almost unlimited amounts of labor they have, labor that is willing to leave the country side to better themselves. The only thing China did, that is unique for China, is to open up that massive labor pool to outside corporations. Since many of those corporation use to have reputations for quality, the lack of quality is a sign of a lack of ethics from these corporations. In a real sense many have basically punted on quality to enjoy the massive profits possible As can be seen with Apples products, quality in China is very possible, it is a matter of the company being willing.
In a nut shell if you believe that poor quality is the result of the products being built in China it might be a good idea to ask who owns the companies building those products. If the company transferred the production from the US or Europe and quality went down who is really to blame?
Yet we are stupid enough to buy their products here from electronics to clothing.
Buying from China is no where near as stupid as buying products from Pakistan or any number of countries that fuel hate for America. For the most part the Chinese people don't hate us and in fact admire us. Frankly they don't like their government anymore than we do.
Comments
Same with the Mac Pro redesign though. There were no leaks at all.
That's because they have to ship 100 million units a year though, not 0.5 million and there's a display process involved. With the Mac Pro and Mini, it's just machining the cases separately and then the conveyer belt moves them down the line for hand-assembly.
The easiest setup would be to have it so that most parts connect to a small metal frame like the PSU, motherboard with soldered RAM and HDD. Then slot this into the case, screw on the back, screw on the fan, Airport and cover and that's it ready to ship. Each one should take under 10 minutes to assemble. If they allow 20 minutes per unit, say 8 hour shifts, that's just over 200 staff needed to handle assembly.
They are really proud of their "Assembled in the USA" mark and I reckon they'll try to get this on their products wherever they can.
I think it's a great option as a dedicated server. With the PCI SSD, it would stand up to a lot of traffic:
http://www.macminiserver.com/can-a-mac-mini-handle-high-traffic-sites/
There's not much point in having things like redundant PSUs because it has to be taken offline to replace it anyway.
I'm really perplexed with your non sense in this forum. I specifically excluded less demanding users from the picture. That isn't FUD it is an accurate representation of the product. The reality is the majority of Mini owners fit into that less demanding category.
I really fail to see how anything I've said is FUD, in fact I generally praise the Haswell GPUs as being a big step forward.
The bolded part is FUD.
Right now the Minis have only adequate GPU performance for less demanding users. If you want to drive a 30" display I'd highly recommend waiting for a Mini with an Iris or Iris Pro or better GPU. It isn't a given that the Mini is good enough for that display or will be even with Haswell or something better. Rather it depends very much upon how you intend to use that machine.
The mini can drive the 30" ACD today. There are always use cases that will drive any machine to it's knees. The HD4000 is not a gaming GPU. This is well known but the resolution of the 30" ACD is not an issue.
Implying that he cannot use his 30" ACD with the current Mini is FUD Implying that even a Haswell mini with a HD4600 might not be capable of driving a 30" ACD is FUD. It IS a given that a 4600 equipped Mini will be able to drive a 30" ACD.
Christ. Given that folks regularly run Photoshop on their older 2012 13" MBPrs the Mini GPU is good enough for many uses cases beyond "less demanding". Granted out of the box it's pixel doubled but folks have forced their MBPr into native by various means. Like in some games:
Now the game might be scaling too or just lying to him but it's playing.
No buckets in an Apple factory!????. Seriously though parts handling is a big factor in the success of modern production lines. Often the mechanical systems are custom tailored to the parts in question.
It's funny. I'm such a nerd that when I read buckets, I thought of renderers.
Funny thing here is that, that is exactly what I thought I said, effectively saying it is suitable for less demanding users.
My point was that I wouldn't be concerned with what display the user intends to use. If they wanted to game at high settings on that thing or move around a really heavy CAD file, that could easily displace a number of machine options. I don't know that I would feel any different suggesting an iris pro mini vs an HD 4000 mini just based on the display they intend to use. The one exception would be when it's a matter of whether a feature is supported. If the user intends to purchase a 4K display over the life of that machine, they won't find it supported at 60Hz. There have been things like 10 bit displayport 1.2 drivers on Windows. Only certain cards supported them. Outside of that kind of stuff, it's at a point where I focus more on the software used, and it's really really divided in terms of what makes good use of certain features like OpenCL as opposed to little nice to have things that are sped up for maybe 3% of the time you spend in a given application.
I think the Mac Mini will still be assembled in China unfortunately.That stinks!
I think the Mac Mini will still be assembled in China unfortunately.That stinks!
At one point Jobs said he was as proud of his automated NeXT factory in California as the machines.
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1990/02/26/73121/
Of course it only made 60 machines a day...
You're right although while I am a huge proponent of buying American whenever possible, I realize that not everything can be made in America and that yes many things will still be made in China.
Unfortunately you are right about that. MADE IN AMERICA That is what we want here.
I 100% agree and maybe Apple will change that in the future as wages rise in China.
At one point Jobs said he was as proud of his automated NeXT factory in California as the machines.
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1990/02/26/73121/
Of course it only made 60 machines a day...
That was a fun read. Thanks for the link.
I hope so. I understand the new Mac Pro is being made in the states now.Is this correct?
Seems like the mini-desktop form factor is starting to take off and is also impacting corporate sales in tough economic times.
Does Apple not want a piece of this action? Where's the new Mini?
Have patience okay. It will be coming soon.Life is to short to worry about this.
I hope so. I understand the new Mac Pro is being made in the states now.Is this correct?
Assembled here. Big difference.
Think of it as Taco Bell.
All the food is made somewhere else. Your taco and burrito are only assembled at your local restaurant.
Except with Apple all the food plants are in China.
Dam shame most of their products are assembled in China.
Funny, particularly since Nintendo products are banned in China.
Yet we are stupid enough to buy their products here from electronics to clothing.
That isn't a good comparison really. Japan had to completely rebuild their economy after WW2. China's march to industrialization has come about due to other factors but they have always had some amount of industry there. You don't have a country of billions without industry. The difference with China is the almost unlimited amounts of labor they have, labor that is willing to leave the country side to better themselves. The only thing China did, that is unique for China, is to open up that massive labor pool to outside corporations. Since many of those corporation use to have reputations for quality, the lack of quality is a sign of a lack of ethics from these corporations. In a real sense many have basically punted on quality to enjoy the massive profits possible As can be seen with Apples products, quality in China is very possible, it is a matter of the company being willing.
In a nut shell if you believe that poor quality is the result of the products being built in China it might be a good idea to ask who owns the companies building those products. If the company transferred the production from the US or Europe and quality went down who is really to blame?
Buying from China is no where near as stupid as buying products from Pakistan or any number of countries that fuel hate for America. For the most part the Chinese people don't hate us and in fact admire us. Frankly they don't like their government anymore than we do.