Sounds good to me....do you really think a UK judge is going to buy that pitch though???
I fear this will end very badly for Apple. They were already given a reprieve during the appeal to only include a PROMINENT link on the homepage instead of the actual apology. However, a link in the last section of a page scanned in the English language (lower right), in the smallest font used on the page, is the exact opposite of prominent. And good luck convincing any judge that this "apology", taken in its entirety (which is how a court will evaluate it), meets the criteria of this court ruling.
So is this jumped up, nutty UK judge going to accuse his colleagues in other countries of contempt as well?
I want Apple to act like a grown up company and respect the law and the intent of the law, not try to circumvent judgements with snide underminings.
How did they "circumvent" the judgment? They stated on their website that those specific Samsung products did not infringe on their patent. You're confusing facts with your personal feelings about Apple. You're projecting contempt; you see what you wish to see.
How did they "circumvent" the judgment? They stated on their website that those specific Samsung products did not infringe on their patent. You're confusing facts with your personal feelings about Apple. You're projecting contempt; you see what you wish to see.
Apple were under no obligation to put any reference to German or US courts in their statement, and yet they chose to. That those courts made different judgements to the UK court is presented in a way that suggests the UK court decision is wrong, or at least questionable. That shows disrespect to the court, or, in other words, contempt.
I've already mentioned that I don't particularly agree with the court judgement, but I'm a private individual with little tie to the case. Apple were the defendant, they lost the case, and they lost the appeal, and in my opinion that's that; they shouldn't be messing around on legally required notices on their website.
Apple lost and needs to follow through with the judge's decision in good faith.
Bullshit.
If a judge condemns one to death, there is no law which states one has to go to the gallows "in good faith", whatever the f*ck that wishy washy statement means.
Basically it says Samsung was found not guilty by this court, but guilty by these other courts. By tacking on the commentary they are undermining the intent of the court.
The intent of the Court is contained in the Order. Namely, for Apple to post on its website that a UK court found Samsung's tablet to not infringe Apple's design patent. Apple has fully complied. If the Court wanted something different, it should have provided Apple with the exact language.
Anybody reading the link will know 1) the UK court found Samsung not guilty of infringing the at issue patent, 2) the reason being that the UK judge doesn't think Samsung's products are as cool as Apple's, and 3) other courts in other parts of the world disagree with the UK judge.
For what it is worth, the Judge's order was ridiculous to being with. Apple's view that Samsung infringed was reasonable. This is seen by other courts agreeing. The judge even said the Samsung tablet had a very similar front face to the iPad. The Judge paid particular attention to the back of the device. The part people don't see. Further, I can't think of any similar case where the plaintiff has had to post such nonsense. Based on Samsung's sales, it clearly hasn't been harmed.
Apple were under no obligation to put any reference to German or US courts in their statement, and yet they chose to. That those courts made different judgements to the UK court is presented in a way that suggests the UK court decision is wrong, or at least questionable. That shows disrespect to the court, or, in other words, contempt.
I've already mentioned that I don't particularly agree with the court judgement, but I'm a private individual with little tie to the case. Apple were the defendant, they lost the case, and they lost the appeal, and in my opinion that's that; they shouldn't be messing around on legally required notices on their website.
I had to go to the store to buy cold medicine. While there I bought a container of Ben and Jerry's ice cream. I was under no obligation to buy the ice cream so, but I choose to do it. As long as Apple complied with the Judge's Order, it was free to do whatever else it wished to do provided it was legal. If the judge wanted Apple to say something specifically, the Judge should have wrote the specific message for Apple.
Moreover, how can the judge complain? First, Apple was the plaintiff, not the defendant. Second, Apple clearly complies in the first paragraph. Third, Apple quotes the judge's basis for finding against Apple. Namely, Samsung's product is not as cool as Apple's product. Clearly, the Judge can't be upset about Apple providing the judge's reasoning for his decision. Fourth, Apple reiterates the Judge's decision in the last paragraph, but points out that in other places in the world different courts disagree. That is also a fact. Is Apple really supposed to not talk about facts?
Setting all that aside. THe judge's order was ridiculous. Based on the other court decisions, Apple's position was clearly reasonable. I can't think of another case where the plaintiff had to post such a notice. The judge was also an idiot. He essentially said the Samsung and iPad tablets are very similar in front, but largely issued his decision based on the back of the devices and the varying weights. When people go into a store to see these devices, the only thing they generally can see is the front. In the California case, the Samsung lawyer couldn't easily pick out which device was the Samsung device when the Judge held both devices up.
A fact of German or US law is of no relevance to a UK court-ruled clarification posted on Apple's UK website. Those facts should not be there, they serve only to undermine the UK judgement. So no, actually they shouldn't talk about them.
I used to enjoy reading the comments sections of AI because each contributor would add something from their area of expertise that gave me a more rounded understanding of the technical issues. Unfortunately I'm sad that it has largely been taken over by childish trolling (even by one of the moderators!).
Muppetry, they can't get much closer than "in a case tried in Germany regarding the same patent, the court found that Samsung engaged in unfair competition by copying the iPad design. A U.S. jury also found Samsung guilty of infringing on Apple's design and utility patents, awarding over one billion U.S. dollars in damages to Apple Inc. So while the U.K. court did not find Samsung guilty of infringement, other courts have recognized that in the course of creating its Galaxy tablet, Samsung willfully copied Apple's far more popular iPad."
BTW, my guess as to the Judge Birss' reasons for making such an order in the first place is apparently dead on correct. See points 44 and 45 from the judges order.
As an aside, I'm guessing Apple already confirmed they don't have any other cases arriving in that UK court in the foreseeable future. Any Apple penalties or admonitions in other UK proceedings might consider how Apple complied with this one. With the billions that Apple has they can certainly afford to be a bit arrogant if they wish, and absolutely have the means to back it up. In my opinion tho it wasn't the best way to go about this one, even if may meet the letter of the law and the judge's order. . . . but of course my opinion isn't the one that counts anyway.
EDIT: If you read item 51 in the judge's ruling on Apple's appeal, it speaks to the very same issue that Apple is again repeating in their court-ordered notice.
...Which is why the order to publish was upheld on appeal. Yet Apple again makes the same claims that led to the order in the first place. When this thread first started this morning I disagreed that Apple was in any danger of any further court sansctions on the matter. Now, after reading the reasons behind the order in the first place, I'm not as certain.
For those wondering why the order was made to begin with, but lacking the patience to read the entire document to know why, just read items 43 thru 58. It will take less than three minutes.
The problem is that the item you quoted involves Apple using innuendo to say that Samsung infringed without actually saying it. In the website statement, Apple is not using innuendo; it is merely stating facts.
The judge said Apple products are cool: fact
The judge said Samsung products are thin and insubstantial: fact
I'm not sure how he can sanction Apple for merely stating the bare facts, especially when the statements are those he said himself. Nowhere has Apple said the judge was wrong, or complained about the outcome. If he does attempt to suppress the truth then Apple may well decide to take the case further.
The only problem I can see is the final paragraph. The judge may decide that the cases in Germany and the US have no bearing and shouldn't be mentioned.
The only problem I can see is the final paragraph. The judge may decide that the cases in Germany and the US have no bearing and shouldn't be mentioned.
Then you and I agreeas that is the section I had a concern with as well. It seems at odds with the courts intent for dealing with the issue discussed in point 51 of the courts decision.
LOL! (when I heard the judge's order earlier I thought that THIS was exacty what they should do but I doubted Apple without Jobs would have dared to do it. Good for you Cook!)
and the judge had ordered Apple to print the ad in LARGE type as well...
it's time for Apple to run "Samsung UNCOOL" ads in U.K. samsung can't say anything about it as the judge had determined that fact... lol.
So while the U.K. court did not find Samsung guilty of infringement, other courts have recognized that in the course of creating its Galaxy tablet, Samsung willfully copied Apple's far more popular iPad.
Which other courts were those? In the US case it cited, the Galaxy tab was one of the few found not to infringe Apple's products. That leaves only the German court decision (which was invalid as the UK court had already ruled it non-infringing, and their decision should have been valid throughout the EC - the German local court shouldn't have contradicted it, the decision could only be overturned by a superior court.
Apple. basically mocked the orders of the UK judge and made a fool of him.
Not agreeing with his ruling is one thing, but to bring in other European courts decisions is going too far.
This is contempt of court.
Apple did exactly the right thing, by following the rule by the letter.
I am more concerned about people like you, I still don't get it, why you are wasting your time in this forum. You hate Apple that is completely fine with me, but to make yourself ridiculous with such nonsensical statements on an forum hosted and frequented manly by Apple favorable people is beyond my understanding.
Have some fun and try something constructive and creative. It helps! Believe me.
LOL! (when I heard the judge's order earlier I thought that THIS was exacty what they should do but I doubted Apple without Jobs would have dared to do it. Good for you Cook!)
and the judge had ordered Apple to print the ad in LARGE type as well...
it's time for Apple to run "Samsung UNCOOL" ads in U.K.
samsung can't say anything about it as the judge had determined that fact...
lol.
LOL!!
Looking forward to those ads!
And yes I really love the subtle humor behind Apples link on the UK website.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by e_veritas
Sounds good to me....do you really think a UK judge is going to buy that pitch though???
I fear this will end very badly for Apple. They were already given a reprieve during the appeal to only include a PROMINENT link on the homepage instead of the actual apology. However, a link in the last section of a page scanned in the English language (lower right), in the smallest font used on the page, is the exact opposite of prominent. And good luck convincing any judge that this "apology", taken in its entirety (which is how a court will evaluate it), meets the criteria of this court ruling.
So is this jumped up, nutty UK judge going to accuse his colleagues in other countries of contempt as well?
What, is crack legal in England?
EDIT;
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley
I want Apple to act like a grown up company and respect the law and the intent of the law, not try to circumvent judgements with snide underminings.
How did they "circumvent" the judgment? They stated on their website that those specific Samsung products did not infringe on their patent. You're confusing facts with your personal feelings about Apple. You're projecting contempt; you see what you wish to see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
How did they "circumvent" the judgment? They stated on their website that those specific Samsung products did not infringe on their patent. You're confusing facts with your personal feelings about Apple. You're projecting contempt; you see what you wish to see.
Apple were under no obligation to put any reference to German or US courts in their statement, and yet they chose to. That those courts made different judgements to the UK court is presented in a way that suggests the UK court decision is wrong, or at least questionable. That shows disrespect to the court, or, in other words, contempt.
I've already mentioned that I don't particularly agree with the court judgement, but I'm a private individual with little tie to the case. Apple were the defendant, they lost the case, and they lost the appeal, and in my opinion that's that; they shouldn't be messing around on legally required notices on their website.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing
...nothing more than playing a complicated game of semantics.
Welcome to Law 101, lesson 1, topic 1, sentence 1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing
Apple lost and needs to follow through with the judge's decision in good faith.
Bullshit.
If a judge condemns one to death, there is no law which states one has to go to the gallows "in good faith", whatever the f*ck that wishy washy statement means.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo42
Basically it says Samsung was found not guilty by this court, but guilty by these other courts. By tacking on the commentary they are undermining the intent of the court.
The intent of the Court is contained in the Order. Namely, for Apple to post on its website that a UK court found Samsung's tablet to not infringe Apple's design patent. Apple has fully complied. If the Court wanted something different, it should have provided Apple with the exact language.
Anybody reading the link will know 1) the UK court found Samsung not guilty of infringing the at issue patent, 2) the reason being that the UK judge doesn't think Samsung's products are as cool as Apple's, and 3) other courts in other parts of the world disagree with the UK judge.
For what it is worth, the Judge's order was ridiculous to being with. Apple's view that Samsung infringed was reasonable. This is seen by other courts agreeing. The judge even said the Samsung tablet had a very similar front face to the iPad. The Judge paid particular attention to the back of the device. The part people don't see. Further, I can't think of any similar case where the plaintiff has had to post such nonsense. Based on Samsung's sales, it clearly hasn't been harmed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley
Apple were under no obligation to put any reference to German or US courts in their statement, and yet they chose to. That those courts made different judgements to the UK court is presented in a way that suggests the UK court decision is wrong, or at least questionable. That shows disrespect to the court, or, in other words, contempt.
I've already mentioned that I don't particularly agree with the court judgement, but I'm a private individual with little tie to the case. Apple were the defendant, they lost the case, and they lost the appeal, and in my opinion that's that; they shouldn't be messing around on legally required notices on their website.
I had to go to the store to buy cold medicine. While there I bought a container of Ben and Jerry's ice cream. I was under no obligation to buy the ice cream so, but I choose to do it. As long as Apple complied with the Judge's Order, it was free to do whatever else it wished to do provided it was legal. If the judge wanted Apple to say something specifically, the Judge should have wrote the specific message for Apple.
Moreover, how can the judge complain? First, Apple was the plaintiff, not the defendant. Second, Apple clearly complies in the first paragraph. Third, Apple quotes the judge's basis for finding against Apple. Namely, Samsung's product is not as cool as Apple's product. Clearly, the Judge can't be upset about Apple providing the judge's reasoning for his decision. Fourth, Apple reiterates the Judge's decision in the last paragraph, but points out that in other places in the world different courts disagree. That is also a fact. Is Apple really supposed to not talk about facts?
Setting all that aside. THe judge's order was ridiculous. Based on the other court decisions, Apple's position was clearly reasonable. I can't think of another case where the plaintiff had to post such a notice. The judge was also an idiot. He essentially said the Samsung and iPad tablets are very similar in front, but largely issued his decision based on the back of the devices and the varying weights. When people go into a store to see these devices, the only thing they generally can see is the front. In the California case, the Samsung lawyer couldn't easily pick out which device was the Samsung device when the Judge held both devices up.
I can't believe it, they really did it. How Embarrassing.
Originally Posted by mocseg
"..the Galaxy Tab 10.1, Tab 8.9 and Tab 7.7 do not infringe Apple’s registered design No. 0000181607-0001."
I can't believe it, they really did it. How Embarrassing.
Eventually the English court system will have to apologize to Apple. It all evens out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell
Is Apple really supposed to not talk about facts?
A fact of German or US law is of no relevance to a UK court-ruled clarification posted on Apple's UK website. Those facts should not be there, they serve only to undermine the UK judgement. So no, actually they shouldn't talk about them.
It should also be noted that freedom of expression in the UK is not the same as freedom of speech in the US. See the following about scandalising of judges: http://lawcommission.justice.gov.uk/docs/cp207_Scandalising_the_Court_for_web.pdf
I used to enjoy reading the comments sections of AI because each contributor would add something from their area of expertise that gave me a more rounded understanding of the technical issues. Unfortunately I'm sad that it has largely been taken over by childish trolling (even by one of the moderators!).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Muppetry, they can't get much closer than "in a case tried in Germany regarding the same patent, the court found that Samsung engaged in unfair competition by copying the iPad design. A U.S. jury also found Samsung guilty of infringing on Apple's design and utility patents, awarding over one billion U.S. dollars in damages to Apple Inc. So while the U.K. court did not find Samsung guilty of infringement, other courts have recognized that in the course of creating its Galaxy tablet, Samsung willfully copied Apple's far more popular iPad."
BTW, my guess as to the Judge Birss' reasons for making such an order in the first place is apparently dead on correct. See points 44 and 45 from the judges order.
http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Patents/2012/2049.html
As an aside, I'm guessing Apple already confirmed they don't have any other cases arriving in that UK court in the foreseeable future. Any Apple penalties or admonitions in other UK proceedings might consider how Apple complied with this one. With the billions that Apple has they can certainly afford to be a bit arrogant if they wish, and absolutely have the means to back it up. In my opinion tho it wasn't the best way to go about this one, even if may meet the letter of the law and the judge's order. . . . but of course my opinion isn't the one that counts anyway.
EDIT: If you read item 51 in the judge's ruling on Apple's appeal, it speaks to the very same issue that Apple is again repeating in their court-ordered notice.
"In my judgment, Apple are carefully trying to say something which contains an innuendo that Samsung infringe without actually saying it. The reference to copying is exactly that. It is clear that copying plays no part in this case for Registered Community Design infringement, but to many people outside the circles of intellectual property law to say something infringes a Registered Community Design and to say someone copied your design or your product is to say the same thing."
...Which is why the order to publish was upheld on appeal. Yet Apple again makes the same claims that led to the order in the first place. When this thread first started this morning I disagreed that Apple was in any danger of any further court sansctions on the matter. Now, after reading the reasons behind the order in the first place, I'm not as certain.
For those wondering why the order was made to begin with, but lacking the patience to read the entire document to know why, just read items 43 thru 58. It will take less than three minutes.
The problem is that the item you quoted involves Apple using innuendo to say that Samsung infringed without actually saying it. In the website statement, Apple is not using innuendo; it is merely stating facts.
The judge said Apple products are cool: fact
The judge said Samsung products are thin and insubstantial: fact
I'm not sure how he can sanction Apple for merely stating the bare facts, especially when the statements are those he said himself. Nowhere has Apple said the judge was wrong, or complained about the outcome. If he does attempt to suppress the truth then Apple may well decide to take the case further.
The only problem I can see is the final paragraph. The judge may decide that the cases in Germany and the US have no bearing and shouldn't be mentioned.
Originally Posted by dave2012
Unfortunately I'm sad that it has largely been taken over by childish trolling (even by one of the moderators!).
So either explain what you mean by this or don't expect to be taken seriously either!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayz
The only problem I can see is the final paragraph. The judge may decide that the cases in Germany and the US have no bearing and shouldn't be mentioned.
Then you and I agree
http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Patents/2012/2049.html
and the judge had ordered Apple to print the ad in LARGE type as well...
it's time for Apple to run "Samsung UNCOOL" ads in U.K.
samsung can't say anything about it as the judge had determined that fact...
lol.
Quote:
So while the U.K. court did not find Samsung guilty of infringement, other courts have recognized that in the course of creating its Galaxy tablet, Samsung willfully copied Apple's far more popular iPad.
Which other courts were those? In the US case it cited, the Galaxy tab was one of the few found not to infringe Apple's products. That leaves only the German court decision (which was invalid as the UK court had already ruled it non-infringing, and their decision should have been valid throughout the EC - the German local court shouldn't have contradicted it, the decision could only be overturned by a superior court.
You know what they:
"Don't fook with the Cook".
I am more concerned about people like you, I still don't get it, why you are wasting your time in this forum. You hate Apple that is completely fine with me, but to make yourself ridiculous with such nonsensical statements on an forum hosted and frequented manly by Apple favorable people is beyond my understanding.
Have some fun and try something constructive and creative. It helps! Believe me.
LOL!!
Looking forward to those ads!
And yes I really love the subtle humor behind Apples link on the UK website.
Well done TC!