Yeah need to specify Windows RT there... the idea that an iPad (any of them) will eat into Windows 8/pro tablets is like saying Crayons will eat into Artist level pastels - One is for talented people, the other is for kids to play games on.
Yeah need to specify Windows RT there... the idea that an iPad (any of them) will eat into Windows 8/pro tablets is like saying Crayons will eat into Artist level pastels - One is for talented people, the other is for kids to play games on.
Creative people and talented people love Macs.
Who needs a Windows tablet? Some boring, no-talent, 9-5 office worker, so that they can use Office?
Windows is a disgusting looking OS. I question the aesthetics of anybody who uses and likes Windows.
Being a Geek does not exclude you from being a well heeled, affluent, educated, discerning, quality conscious consumer. Just that we have the ability to see when a tech corporation has a good solid product like say a Unix Platform with a nice usable GUI or is trying to shove shit down our throats like permanently locking our media and documents into their eco system.
So... Looking at my iTunes library...
70 GB of music and +1 TB of video and NONE of it is locked into Apple's ecosystem. It all plays on my iPhone and iPad and AppleTV, but it also plays on any other device I care to put it on.
My iOS devices can play any .avi or .mkv file I throw at it... So how am I "locked" to any "ecosystem"?
I'm an MSDN member as well as an iOS and OS X developer... I simply cannot understand what the hell Balmer is thinking with Win8. You're spot on sunspot42... No pun intended. Microsoft server/enterprise products are still the bees knees, but they are seriously misunderstanding the tablet market... and it might be at the expense of their desktop dominance.
$329 for iPad Mini is surely a death blow to Apple. That sentiment from the same folks who called the $499 iPad "a big iPod" and predicted certain failure. What do they know. Apple has sold 100 million of them and counting. Nobody else has ever sold a hundred million of anything (maybe I'm wrong -- sue me.)
So the conventional wisdom is that Apple should have priced it at $199 and killed the competition. But don't you think that sorry competition in the form of plasticky low end tablets is a good thing for Apple? I do. It doesn't take a genius to see that next year we'll see a $329 iPad Mini (2nd Gen) with Retina Display and A6 processor. The Mini (1st Gen) drops to $249. The press will complain endlessly about that.
This year we get a BMW 3 series for just $130 more than a Chevy Malibu. I think it's a great deal — I just bought two of them. Next year, we get it for the price of a used Ford. The tech press will continue to be clueless while Apple owns the category.
Being a Geek does not exclude you from being a well heeled, affluent, educated, discerning, quality conscious consumer. Just that we have the ability to see when a tech corporation has a good solid product like say a Unix Platform with a nice usable GUI or is trying to shove shit down our throatslike permanently locking our media and documents into their eco system.
Is that geek-speak for "I don't really have a good argument"...?
No, their "worst nightmare" would have been if Apple had been able to price the low-end model at $199. Then competitors would be run right out of business. $329 leaves room for them in the market.
The biggest thing a $329 price point leaves room for is next year's announcement:
Being a Geek does not exclude you from being a well heeled, affluent, educated, discerning, quality conscious consumer. Just that we have the ability to see when a tech corporation has a good solid product like say a Unix Platform with a nice usable GUI or is trying to shove shit down our throats like permanently locking our media and documents into their eco system.
People who choose to buy a BMW do not change their own oil nor do they take their car to Jiffylube. Most Apple iPad buyers don't care about the lock-in. Its purpose is to protect them and everyone else from low life digital pirates. You can enable several devices in your home to share the content from iTunes or you can import your own music if your want. I don't see where the problem is. Shell scripting Nix geeks are not the target market here.
Which is just fine. If Apples goal was to eliminate competitors they could, but thankfully it isn't.
I don't think so. At least not until Apple has complete control over components production.
As it is, likes of Samsung, LG... always can sell for razor-thin margins and make their products cheaper than Apple (who has to purchase components elsewhere), if it is a question of life and death..
And Apple can push their suppliers only that much. At some points, they will choose to follow their own path than to be just Apple's supplier. Like Samsung did. LG, for example, is much below Samsung in terms of worldwide marketshare and sales, so their production capacities have to be employed somewhere... but should they manage to build their brand name a bit, I'd be surprised if they don't (at least try) to pull Samsung on Apple in a year or two. There is potentially much more money in selling complete products compared to selling components, even if your buyer is Apple.
Windows is a disgusting looking OS. I question the aesthetics of anybody who uses and likes Windows.
It's not just disgusting looking OS but software which fails in the usability department too.
Important options buried inside nested menus...
Failure to support drag and drop where is makes intuititive sense...
Forcing everyone onto tabbed toolbars (AKA the ribbon)...
In the time that Apple has implemented enormous changes which make maintaining a computer easier (app store, expose, Time machine, retina display, iCloud, wireless syncing) Microsoft has done what? Pushed out three major OS's cobbled around the same crappy start button.
Exactly what Apple wants. Apple wants a bunch of manufacturers squabbling over the crumbs at the low end of the market in a race to the bottom. While they might be able to move a lot of worthless units, it won't be enough to fund the development of powerful next-generation systems and they won't attract the kind of customers who spend $100 or more a month on software, services and media - which is where Apple makes big money and expands its ecosystem.
Remember the home computer wars of the early '80s, when Commodore, TI, Atari, Coleco and Tandy got sucked into a raging price war at the low end of the market. They pretty much all outsold Apple, ended up not making any money and their el-cheapo userbase pirated software instead of buying it, so only the biggest seller (Commodore) had anything in the way of a platform. Even then, Commodore was pretty much wiped out by the arrival of the clones, their profit margins were so low and their platform incapable of keeping up with IBM's. Only Apple survived.
This is gonna be the exact same deal. You'll see Samsung, Amazon, a bunch of Chinese Android craplets and whatever Surface junk Microsoft pumps out all competing with one another on price and spec sheets. Margins will collapse, they'll be giving their cruddy tablets away, their cheapskate users won't buy any software or services and finally Apple will release some disruptive device - again - that makes them all obsolete, anyhow.
History doesn't repeat, but it does rhyme.
Commodores, Ataris... died not because they were working on razor-thin margins, but because they could not compete with emerging PC standard. They remained expensive and were overtaken by PCs on performance level for less money.
I was Amiga user, and recall well - Amiga 600, sold in mid '90, was prety much repacked Amiga 500 I had from '87. That was over 5 years of selling same product, with really minor updates. Amiga 1200 was the only logical upgrade for home users, and even that one was shamelessly expensive in regard of HDD options, for example, and not that much faster than original Amiga (relative to timespan between releases). Amiga 3000, 4000... were out of this world price wise, and were overtaken on performance level by cheaper PC boxes.
Apple survived, but barely. If it wasn't for Return of the Jobs, question is would they survive either.
[" url="/t/153974/ipad-mini-is-windows-8-hardware-makers-worst-nightmare-analyst-says#post_2225232"]Creative people and talented people love Macs.
Who needs a Windows tablet? Some boring, no-talent, 9-5 office worker, so that they can use Office?
Windows is a disgusting looking OS. I question the aesthetics of anybody who uses and likes Windows.
The same stupid clueless question was being made by many when iPad came out. How about we wait and actually see who needs Windows tablet? You may even come out being right. But for now, you are only coming out being arrogant prick. If someone like that questions anything, I think it is actually quite good perspective for that anything.
Nice to compare the price of the 7.9" 16GB mini to the 32GB Surface that includes the keyboard cover.
The amount of remaining space is much less than the difference of 16GB, since the Win8 OS takes up so much damn space. Also, most reviews I read categorized the keyboard cover anywhere from 'passable' to 'horrible', and in no way approximates a real keyboard. Taking into account the fact that Surface RT is useless as a desktop system (ie. cant install Windows applications) then its an apt comparison. What exactly are you getting for all that money? A compromised machine that doesnt do any task particularly well.
The same stupid clueless question was being made by many when iPad came out. How about we wait and actually see who needs Windows tablet? You may even come out being right. But for now, you are only coming out being arrogant prick. If someone like that questions anything, I think it is actually quite good perspective for that anything.
Except for the fact that I never did question the iPad when it came out. To the contrary, I predicted that it would be a massive success.
As for any Windows Tablet, I really don't need to wait until it comes out. I've managed just fine without ever using Windows for my entire life, I doubt that I'm going to start now. Microsoft's hybrid tablet approach is fundamentally wrong. It's worse than a real laptop and worse than a real tablet. It does neither better. I don't need to try one to see the error in their ways.
As for being an arrogant prick, I've been called worse before.
And did you somehow miss that my reply was in response to somebody who is nothing but a third rate troll? Trolls do not get any respect from me.
Yeah need to specify Windows RT there... the idea that an iPad (any of them) will eat into Windows 8/pro tablets is like saying Crayons will eat into Artist level pastels - One is for talented people, the other is for kids to play games on.
Windows is for 'talented people'? What the ****? When did this happen? Its the default OS for most of the worlds population, and now its suddenly for the super talented? Or are you talking about the interface composed of massive, pastel colored tiles? Is that the one for pros and talented people?
Also, I'd send you all the creative stuff I've produced on my iPad (that also took talent), but it would be a waste of time because you're obviously full of shit, and a chronic, mindless troll. Like it or not, the iPad is beyind used and deployed in a ton of industries, from creative, to manufacturing, to education, to medical, to engineering, etc. Pretty impressive for a toy that 'kids play on'.
Amazing how some people (like you) get their jollies by registering on a messageboard for a fansite of a company solely to bash and troll their products, as if they're on some sort of righteous crusade. Beyond pathetic.
Comments
Yeah need to specify Windows RT there... the idea that an iPad (any of them) will eat into Windows 8/pro tablets is like saying Crayons will eat into Artist level pastels - One is for talented people, the other is for kids to play games on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by agramonte
Yeah need to specify Windows RT there... the idea that an iPad (any of them) will eat into Windows 8/pro tablets is like saying Crayons will eat into Artist level pastels - One is for talented people, the other is for kids to play games on.
Creative people and talented people love Macs.
Who needs a Windows tablet? Some boring, no-talent, 9-5 office worker, so that they can use Office?
Windows is a disgusting looking OS. I question the aesthetics of anybody who uses and likes Windows.
Whoa! What an AMAZING prediction. This analyst must be like…clairvoyant. I hope he gets paid a lot of money!
So... Looking at my iTunes library...
70 GB of music and +1 TB of video and NONE of it is locked into Apple's ecosystem. It all plays on my iPhone and iPad and AppleTV, but it also plays on any other device I care to put it on.
My iOS devices can play any .avi or .mkv file I throw at it... So how am I "locked" to any "ecosystem"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackieTreehorn
I'm an MSDN member as well as an iOS and OS X developer... I simply cannot understand what the hell Balmer is thinking with Win8. You're spot on sunspot42... No pun intended. Microsoft server/enterprise products are still the bees knees, but they are seriously misunderstanding the tablet market... and it might be at the expense of their desktop dominance.
So I take it you didn't buy the Surface, lol?
$329 for iPad Mini is surely a death blow to Apple. That sentiment from the same folks who called the $499 iPad "a big iPod" and predicted certain failure. What do they know. Apple has sold 100 million of them and counting. Nobody else has ever sold a hundred million of anything (maybe I'm wrong -- sue me.)
So the conventional wisdom is that Apple should have priced it at $199 and killed the competition. But don't you think that sorry competition in the form of plasticky low end tablets is a good thing for Apple? I do. It doesn't take a genius to see that next year we'll see a $329 iPad Mini (2nd Gen) with Retina Display and A6 processor. The Mini (1st Gen) drops to $249. The press will complain endlessly about that.
This year we get a BMW 3 series for just $130 more than a Chevy Malibu. I think it's a great deal — I just bought two of them. Next year, we get it for the price of a used Ford. The tech press will continue to be clueless while Apple owns the category.
clicked twice. oops.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcel655
Being a Geek does not exclude you from being a well heeled, affluent, educated, discerning, quality conscious consumer. Just that we have the ability to see when a tech corporation has a good solid product like say a Unix Platform with a nice usable GUI or is trying to shove shit down our throats like permanently locking our media and documents into their eco system.
Is that geek-speak for "I don't really have a good argument"...?
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky
Is that geek-speak for "I don't really have a good argument"...?
I thought he was talking about Microsoft there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe
No, their "worst nightmare" would have been if Apple had been able to price the low-end model at $199. Then competitors would be run right out of business. $329 leaves room for them in the market.
The biggest thing a $329 price point leaves room for is next year's announcement:
"iPad Mini. Now from $299"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcel655
Being a Geek does not exclude you from being a well heeled, affluent, educated, discerning, quality conscious consumer. Just that we have the ability to see when a tech corporation has a good solid product like say a Unix Platform with a nice usable GUI or is trying to shove shit down our throats like permanently locking our media and documents into their eco system.
People who choose to buy a BMW do not change their own oil nor do they take their car to Jiffylube. Most Apple iPad buyers don't care about the lock-in. Its purpose is to protect them and everyone else from low life digital pirates. You can enable several devices in your home to share the content from iTunes or you can import your own music if your want. I don't see where the problem is. Shell scripting Nix geeks are not the target market here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman
Which is just fine. If Apples goal was to eliminate competitors they could, but thankfully it isn't.
Right. They leave that task to the legal department these days.
I don't think so. At least not until Apple has complete control over components production.
As it is, likes of Samsung, LG... always can sell for razor-thin margins and make their products cheaper than Apple (who has to purchase components elsewhere), if it is a question of life and death..
And Apple can push their suppliers only that much. At some points, they will choose to follow their own path than to be just Apple's supplier. Like Samsung did. LG, for example, is much below Samsung in terms of worldwide marketshare and sales, so their production capacities have to be employed somewhere... but should they manage to build their brand name a bit, I'd be surprised if they don't (at least try) to pull Samsung on Apple in a year or two. There is potentially much more money in selling complete products compared to selling components, even if your buyer is Apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
Windows is a disgusting looking OS. I question the aesthetics of anybody who uses and likes Windows.
It's not just disgusting looking OS but software which fails in the usability department too.
Important options buried inside nested menus...
Failure to support drag and drop where is makes intuititive sense...
Forcing everyone onto tabbed toolbars (AKA the ribbon)...
In the time that Apple has implemented enormous changes which make maintaining a computer easier (app store, expose, Time machine, retina display, iCloud, wireless syncing) Microsoft has done what? Pushed out three major OS's cobbled around the same crappy start button.
Commodores, Ataris... died not because they were working on razor-thin margins, but because they could not compete with emerging PC standard. They remained expensive and were overtaken by PCs on performance level for less money.
I was Amiga user, and recall well - Amiga 600, sold in mid '90, was prety much repacked Amiga 500 I had from '87. That was over 5 years of selling same product, with really minor updates. Amiga 1200 was the only logical upgrade for home users, and even that one was shamelessly expensive in regard of HDD options, for example, and not that much faster than original Amiga (relative to timespan between releases). Amiga 3000, 4000... were out of this world price wise, and were overtaken on performance level by cheaper PC boxes.
Apple survived, but barely. If it wasn't for Return of the Jobs, question is would they survive either.
The same stupid clueless question was being made by many when iPad came out. How about we wait and actually see who needs Windows tablet? You may even come out being right. But for now, you are only coming out being arrogant prick. If someone like that questions anything, I think it is actually quite good perspective for that anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by clexman
Nice to compare the price of the 7.9" 16GB mini to the 32GB Surface that includes the keyboard cover.
The amount of remaining space is much less than the difference of 16GB, since the Win8 OS takes up so much damn space. Also, most reviews I read categorized the keyboard cover anywhere from 'passable' to 'horrible', and in no way approximates a real keyboard. Taking into account the fact that Surface RT is useless as a desktop system (ie. cant install Windows applications) then its an apt comparison. What exactly are you getting for all that money? A compromised machine that doesnt do any task particularly well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133
The same stupid clueless question was being made by many when iPad came out. How about we wait and actually see who needs Windows tablet? You may even come out being right. But for now, you are only coming out being arrogant prick. If someone like that questions anything, I think it is actually quite good perspective for that anything.
Except for the fact that I never did question the iPad when it came out. To the contrary, I predicted that it would be a massive success.
As for any Windows Tablet, I really don't need to wait until it comes out. I've managed just fine without ever using Windows for my entire life, I doubt that I'm going to start now. Microsoft's hybrid tablet approach is fundamentally wrong. It's worse than a real laptop and worse than a real tablet. It does neither better. I don't need to try one to see the error in their ways.
As for being an arrogant prick, I've been called worse before.
And did you somehow miss that my reply was in response to somebody who is nothing but a third rate troll? Trolls do not get any respect from me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by agramonte
Yeah need to specify Windows RT there... the idea that an iPad (any of them) will eat into Windows 8/pro tablets is like saying Crayons will eat into Artist level pastels - One is for talented people, the other is for kids to play games on.
Windows is for 'talented people'? What the ****? When did this happen? Its the default OS for most of the worlds population, and now its suddenly for the super talented? Or are you talking about the interface composed of massive, pastel colored tiles? Is that the one for pros and talented people?
Also, I'd send you all the creative stuff I've produced on my iPad (that also took talent), but it would be a waste of time because you're obviously full of shit, and a chronic, mindless troll. Like it or not, the iPad is beyind used and deployed in a ton of industries, from creative, to manufacturing, to education, to medical, to engineering, etc. Pretty impressive for a toy that 'kids play on'.
Amazing how some people (like you) get their jollies by registering on a messageboard for a fansite of a company solely to bash and troll their products, as if they're on some sort of righteous crusade. Beyond pathetic.