Then why would you give that money to the State for goodness sake?!?!
Because the state provides the majority of education, law enforcement and healthcare in most civilised countries?
I think it's pretty shameful that large corporations do everything they can to avoid paying tax and then complain that they can't find educated staff. Maybe there's a link between the two?
Good for you. We all should have that attitude. That doesn't have anything to do with paying taxes though.
Yes, it does.
It helps that there's a correlation between tax and happiness, and not in the direction that you'd think.
Mj1970: your posts are hilarious! You do know that you have to do more to win an argument than post emoticons of sad faces and endless rhetorical questions in bullet point form, right?
There is no bigger scam going in the United States than owning a corporation. You can write-off all sorts of stuff: cars, offices, computers, trips, clothing, tools, raw materials...assuming you have revenue, of course. NOBODY pays that corporate tax rate you reference. My company doesn't. We pay very little in taxes due to all these deductions.
The corporate share of all taxes paid in the U.S. is 20% of what it was 50 years ago. I think that's bad, because it means more money has to be shouldered by the middle-class, who can't afford it.
Apple is a U.S. corporation, and ALL of its profits (worldwide) should be taxed as income to that U.S. corporation, no matter how Apple has structured its phantom corporations in Ireland and The Netherlands to minimize its taxes. Of course, that will never happen, because Apple is lobbying to make sure its taxes go down, not up.
That makes them no different than any other company in the Fortune 500. That's how our laws and tax code allow them to act.
That said, have you seen what Apple's tax rate is in the U.S.? It's like 27%! Apple is paying a phenomenal amount of money in taxes because they're making an incredible amount of money in profits. That makes me happy to support them, but I still wish they wouldn't lobby to lower their taxes.
The defense that "all corporations do it" isn't good enough. Apple should be a cut above, not running with the crowd.
I dont think Apple needs to be a cut above - Cars etc may be deductible from corp taxes - but the users will pay handsomely for every mile they are not on corp business.
If your company needs to add to retained earnings, as Apple has been doing you cannot avoid the 15 to 35% tax, UNLESS you avoid it by registering income earned overseas.
Why is there an enticement to send more of my work overseas to avoid taxes? you would think that you would get a benefit from investing domestically
This is tax on Foreign profits -- isn't it likely that Apple PAID TAX in those other nations?
Does any accountant have knowledge of how this works? I'd hate to be suckered into another "hate Apple" for doing what all the other corporations are doing. Last month it was "hate Apple because they pay 5% in taxes" -- which is wrong. But then their competitors are paying 2% and some are paying nothing at all.
We have to change the rules that apply to all large corporations -- they pay far too little now.
There are loopholes and entire departments in major companies dedicated into finding said loopholes to minimize the tax burden of each corporation.
I have friends who work in the tax department of Xerox, GE, Proctor and Gamble who do nothing but scour thousands upon thousands of pages of legal tax code to find and utilize those loopholes. Their compliance department only consists of 10% of their entire tax staff with the rest going to "tax planning", a legal practice where they try to pay the least amount of tax as possible. The majority of the Fortune 500 companies pay less than maximum 35% of the corporate tax. Sometimes, companies specifically report a loss on their financials to gain a deferred tax savings in the future.
Dont bet on the tax code changing anytime soon for the lobbyists has Capital Hill by its throat.
Tax holidays were previously introduced in the US tax system, however, according to academia, the economic impact on the economy was negligent.
Apple's cash is only going to be in the books and perhaps never be repatriated back to the US.
I'm so tired of people bitching about who's not paying some made up "pie-in-the-sky" percentage of taxes that they deem appropriate based on no empirical data. I'm guessing most (US) folks here on this board claim their home mortgages as a tax deduction? If so, that's a government tax subsidy that NO one is forced to take. Why are you taking that deduction? How about paying taxes on all of those Internet purchases? At least in California, you're supposed to claim your Internet purchases and pay the appropriate tax on same. Is anyone paying that tax? You married? If so, you're claiming single so you can pay your "fair share", right? Again, NOT! Stop pointing fingers at those who are simply using the tax laws to their advantage. Whether a business or a person, they may be a lot like you! Unless any of this is illegal, let's move on.
You have never been to a socialist country have you? People there have it a lot better than the majority of Americans.
You're post is interesting. It's as if you think the US isn't socialist at all. And you also appear to believe that people are better off under socialism. Odd. Better off in what way(s) precisely?
Just from reading some of the posts it looks like as Apple's profits grow, everyone wants a bigger piece of the pie. But why they even had to pay 2.5% on FOREIGN profits is puzzling. If they paid taxes on the money in the country they sold the device in then it should be free and clear to the investor, you know, so they can pay another tax on Capital Gains. I really don't know how people get so worked up over this, their sense of entitlement must be overwhelming. The US Treasury gets plenty of money from Apple but it's never enough for an ever expanding govenment.
It's stupid to have corporations paying taxes. Corporations are pieces of paper. People pay taxes. Incomes taxes, taxes on investments, sales taxes, etc.
Tax on profits should be eliminated ... businesses can either make additional profits which in turn are passed to shareholders, or spend it on capital or more employees.
We can't bitch about this. Apple is just being smart about it, even though they can afford to do what they're doing. We can only be mad at the government, who spends our taxes on many undisclosed projects. Try to get details on what they actually use our money for, and see how far you get.
Regardless %u2013 thanks, news, for rubbing it in our face.
Comments
All I'm saying that it's not exclusive to socialist governments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
All I'm saying that it's not exclusive to socialist governments.
First: Re-read the signature. Carefully and slowly this time.
@
MJ1970
All your comments are useless
Get a clue
Because the state provides the majority of education, law enforcement and healthcare in most civilised countries?
I think it's pretty shameful that large corporations do everything they can to avoid paying tax and then complain that they can't find educated staff. Maybe there's a link between the two?
Yes, it does.
It helps that there's a correlation between tax and happiness, and not in the direction that you'd think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL
Because the state provides the majority of education, law enforcement and healthcare in most civilised countries?
I assume that you presume a) that's the only way to get those things, and b) that the State does theme best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL
Yes, it does.
If you say so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL
It helps that there's a correlation between tax and happiness, and not in the direction that you'd think.
Yeah. I'll bet the correlation isn't what you think though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
I wonder who will claim Apple didn't pay what was legally required of them.
I think this makes Apple a 47%-er, doesn't it???
(There, that makes 300. Nice and round. And I'm done)
Good effort, but I'd really like to see that number at 0%. I'm serious.
As compared to GE who got a huge check BACK. 3.2 BILLION back.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/25/business/economy/25tax.html?pagewanted=all
"The company reported worldwide profits of $14.2 billion, and said $5.1 billion of the total came from its operations in the United States.
Its American tax bill? None. In fact, G.E. claimed a tax benefit of $3.2 billion."
APPLE needs better accountants!
You have never been to a socialist country have you? People there have it a lot better than the majority of Americans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macsimcon
There is no bigger scam going in the United States than owning a corporation. You can write-off all sorts of stuff: cars, offices, computers, trips, clothing, tools, raw materials...assuming you have revenue, of course. NOBODY pays that corporate tax rate you reference. My company doesn't. We pay very little in taxes due to all these deductions.
The corporate share of all taxes paid in the U.S. is 20% of what it was 50 years ago. I think that's bad, because it means more money has to be shouldered by the middle-class, who can't afford it.
Apple is a U.S. corporation, and ALL of its profits (worldwide) should be taxed as income to that U.S. corporation, no matter how Apple has structured its phantom corporations in Ireland and The Netherlands to minimize its taxes. Of course, that will never happen, because Apple is lobbying to make sure its taxes go down, not up.
That makes them no different than any other company in the Fortune 500. That's how our laws and tax code allow them to act.
That said, have you seen what Apple's tax rate is in the U.S.? It's like 27%! Apple is paying a phenomenal amount of money in taxes because they're making an incredible amount of money in profits. That makes me happy to support them, but I still wish they wouldn't lobby to lower their taxes.
The defense that "all corporations do it" isn't good enough. Apple should be a cut above, not running with the crowd.
I dont think Apple needs to be a cut above - Cars etc may be deductible from corp taxes - but the users will pay handsomely for every mile they are not on corp business.
If your company needs to add to retained earnings, as Apple has been doing you cannot avoid the 15 to 35% tax, UNLESS you avoid it by registering income earned overseas.
Why is there an enticement to send more of my work overseas to avoid taxes? you would think that you would get a benefit from investing domestically
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fake_William_Shatner
This is tax on Foreign profits -- isn't it likely that Apple PAID TAX in those other nations?
Does any accountant have knowledge of how this works? I'd hate to be suckered into another "hate Apple" for doing what all the other corporations are doing. Last month it was "hate Apple because they pay 5% in taxes" -- which is wrong. But then their competitors are paying 2% and some are paying nothing at all.
We have to change the rules that apply to all large corporations -- they pay far too little now.
There are loopholes and entire departments in major companies dedicated into finding said loopholes to minimize the tax burden of each corporation.
I have friends who work in the tax department of Xerox, GE, Proctor and Gamble who do nothing but scour thousands upon thousands of pages of legal tax code to find and utilize those loopholes. Their compliance department only consists of 10% of their entire tax staff with the rest going to "tax planning", a legal practice where they try to pay the least amount of tax as possible. The majority of the Fortune 500 companies pay less than maximum 35% of the corporate tax. Sometimes, companies specifically report a loss on their financials to gain a deferred tax savings in the future.
Dont bet on the tax code changing anytime soon for the lobbyists has Capital Hill by its throat.
Tax holidays were previously introduced in the US tax system, however, according to academia, the economic impact on the economy was negligent.
Apple's cash is only going to be in the books and perhaps never be repatriated back to the US.
I'm so tired of people bitching about who's not paying some made up "pie-in-the-sky" percentage of taxes that they deem appropriate based on no empirical data. I'm guessing most (US) folks here on this board claim their home mortgages as a tax deduction? If so, that's a government tax subsidy that NO one is forced to take. Why are you taking that deduction? How about paying taxes on all of those Internet purchases? At least in California, you're supposed to claim your Internet purchases and pay the appropriate tax on same. Is anyone paying that tax? You married? If so, you're claiming single so you can pay your "fair share", right? Again, NOT! Stop pointing fingers at those who are simply using the tax laws to their advantage. Whether a business or a person, they may be a lot like you! Unless any of this is illegal, let's move on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by philster1919
Mj1970: your posts are hilarious!
Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by philster1919
You do know that you have to do more to win an argument than post emoticons of sad faces and endless rhetorical questions in bullet point form, right?
Yes. But I often have to play down to the audience.
What rhetorical questions are you referring to?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerryb
You have never been to a socialist country have you? People there have it a lot better than the majority of Americans.
You're post is interesting. It's as if you think the US isn't socialist at all. And you also appear to believe that people are better off under socialism. Odd. Better off in what way(s) precisely?
Quote:
Originally Posted by freddych
Yes, the US has the highest corporate tax rates in the world, but theres enough loopholes so that companies like GE essentially pay nothing.
I believe GE's effective rate is about 12%.. far from "nothing".
Just from reading some of the posts it looks like as Apple's profits grow, everyone wants a bigger piece of the pie. But why they even had to pay 2.5% on FOREIGN profits is puzzling. If they paid taxes on the money in the country they sold the device in then it should be free and clear to the investor, you know, so they can pay another tax on Capital Gains. I really don't know how people get so worked up over this, their sense of entitlement must be overwhelming. The US Treasury gets plenty of money from Apple but it's never enough for an ever expanding govenment.
Tax on profits should be eliminated ... businesses can either make additional profits which in turn are passed to shareholders, or spend it on capital or more employees.
Regardless %u2013 thanks, news, for rubbing it in our face.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerryb
You have never been to a socialist country have you? People there have it a lot better than the majority of Americans.
Um, have YOU ever been to a socialist country? Not just at the tourist spots, the real, everyday life part of the country?