Apple provides their 12 months warranty which includes some telephone support + will fix problems that arise during the warranty period.
They also provide the 2 year EU warranty which only covers defects that exist when the product was purchased, not faults that arise during the warranty period.
1 - Lack of conformity arising up to 6 months after the time of purchase is to be regarded as being present at the time of purchase (Apple can not even attempt to prove otherwise in this case);
2 - Lack of conformity reported a day before the end of the 2-year period is considered present at the time of purchase by default unless Apple can prove that it was caused by incorrect use of the product;
3 - Lack of conformity has to be reported within 2 months of detection (this prevents people from waiting the full 2 year period to get a refund over something minimal).
These laws extend to all EU countries, with no exceptions. If a country is not fully implementing Directive 99/44/EC, any EU citizen can file a complaint against that country at the EC.
Wow! That is actually a very sad thing to happen. Although the law requires 2 years warranty, you will get way more service through Apple Care.
Yep, but if the lawmakers don't get that then why bother continuing to try to educate them. They don't want AppleCare sold in Italy so Apple will oblige. At the consumers loss when they can't prove delivery defect etc and have to pay insane amounts for service, have to pay for phone support etc
how does this equate to the uk?
apple still advertise their products as having a 12 month warranty here when it should be 2 years because of the eu ruling.
Not exactly. The EU law requires the seller to repair or replace goods for any defect present at time of delivery for two years. In many countries after six months the consumer has to prove it was such a defect.
The one year warranty Apple proves is on all Apple products no matter the seller or when the defect occurred. If they can't prove it was damage related, they cover it.
Under the Sale Of Goods Act 1979 Section 14-2, the 'durability' of a product must be what... 'a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking account of any description of the goods, the price (if relevant) and all the other relevant circumstances'
I believe for an Apple computer that this is definitely more than two years and so this law is of a higher standard than the EU directive and so takes precedence.
Edit: I forgot to say, the law has a maximum of six years.
From the seller, which isn't always Apple.
Apples warranty doesn't care if you bought it from them, Dixons, JoJo's authorized Apple reseller etc.
how does this equate to the uk?
apple still advertise their products as having a 12 month warranty here when it should be 2 years because of the eu ruling.
The quote from Apple's site is wrong - in that Apple are being disingenuous again, which is what has got them into trouble in Italy in the first place and with the UK Judge in the second.. UK consumer law is tougher than the EU law and warrants a reasonable use from a product, and that absolutely includes defects that develop which either shouldn't - given 'reasonable expectations' - or which only developed because of an initial intrinsic fault. Basically, The EU protection is worded in that it is a 'minimum' requirement which EU member states must comply with through legislation, however it does allow for it not to be incorporated in a member states legislation if they already have legislation which provides greater consumer protection - which is the case with the UK.
Apple can say what they like about not fixing faults that develop, but I am sure a Uk Judge will quickly put them right on the issue if they wan't to get smart - yet again.
It's not about being good for business, but about being good for consumers. You speak as if this is some unique piece of legislation that is singling out poor persecuted Apple and no one else. It isn't.
As for a sense of entitlement - you jest? I recently paid a small fortune for a 15" MBPR. I seriously think that it should last a good bit longer than 12 months without malfunctioning or hidden defects or deficiencies developing. Would you buy a car that only had a 12 month warranty? Given it's difficulty of repair, I would not have bought it if it had only been covered by a 12 month warranty - so that's one way that legislation is good for business, it gives consumers the confidence to purchase.
So you're arguing that Apple isn't being singled out - yet you then argue that they SHOULD be singled out because their products are more expensive.
So you're arguing that Apple isn't being singled out - yet you then argue that they SHOULD be singled out because their products are more expensive.
*head spinning*
Please explain what it was I said that leads you to think I singled Apple out. Was it the mention of cars as a corollary?
And as it so happens, the UK legislation does take into account the cost of an item as a factor in determining a reasonable expectation of service life.
Quote:
Satisfactory quality is defined as what a ‘reasonable person’ would regard as acceptable, and takes into account factors such as price paid
The EU and the Euro are not mutually inclusive. Joining the Euro was never a condition of remaining a member of the EU. Some countries joined the Euro, and some didn't.
The sales of goods act applies to the retailer not the manufacturer so this isn't really the same thing. Granted if you purchase at an Apple store then it applies.
It isn't just Apple though, I would challenge you to find any manufacturer or retailer than gives advise on the Sales of Goods act as a way to obtain repairs over and above a standard warranty. Personally I would argue that it isn't their responsibility, certainly in the UK they are not required by law to do so - consumers need to take some responsibility in knowing their rights. My understanding is it is different in Italy where they are required to highlight consumer rights which is where Apple were failing.
To my knowledge it is required by (EU) law to state that a product has 2 (or more) years warranty.
So Apple has to put that information on its website when a customer views a specific product.
Just checked, and no, currently only one year limited warranty on Apple products in the Dutch Apple store.
How many other "opt outs" has the UK "negotiated", pertaining to consumer law, for instance?
The currency situation proves that not all EU rules are implemented.
First it doesn't prove anything, it creates doubt. Secondly, not that I'm aware of. As far as I know, the UK has 4 opt-outs: one from the EMU (Euro), another for the Charter of Fundamental Rights (a kind of European constitution), and two for the open borders.
I would say the EU works, it's the Euro that doesn't.
The euro is actually around 1.30 dollar since years, I would rather say that it is overvalued yet pretty stable if you ignore most of the press inflated if not oriented drama about it. People tend to mix things up with the sovereign debt crisis of the PIGS (portugal, ireland, Italy, greece, spain), etc.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX
troll
You're new here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich
You're new here.
Newer than you I see by your post number. Impressive.
That's not exactly how it works:
1 - Lack of conformity arising up to 6 months after the time of purchase is to be regarded as being present at the time of purchase (Apple can not even attempt to prove otherwise in this case);
2 - Lack of conformity reported a day before the end of the 2-year period is considered present at the time of purchase by default unless Apple can prove that it was caused by incorrect use of the product;
3 - Lack of conformity has to be reported within 2 months of detection (this prevents people from waiting the full 2 year period to get a refund over something minimal).
These laws extend to all EU countries, with no exceptions. If a country is not fully implementing Directive 99/44/EC, any EU citizen can file a complaint against that country at the EC.
Yep, but if the lawmakers don't get that then why bother continuing to try to educate them. They don't want AppleCare sold in Italy so Apple will oblige. At the consumers loss when they can't prove delivery defect etc and have to pay insane amounts for service, have to pay for phone support etc
Not exactly. The EU law requires the seller to repair or replace goods for any defect present at time of delivery for two years. In many countries after six months the consumer has to prove it was such a defect.
The one year warranty Apple proves is on all Apple products no matter the seller or when the defect occurred. If they can't prove it was damage related, they cover it.
From the seller, which isn't always Apple.
Apples warranty doesn't care if you bought it from them, Dixons, JoJo's authorized Apple reseller etc.
Do you pay in Euros?
That's an EU ruling too. Isn't it?
So why does the UK still use their own currency?
Are they in the EU or not ?
They have negotiated opt-outs (this also applies to Denmark and informally to Sweden).
So you're arguing that Apple isn't being singled out - yet you then argue that they SHOULD be singled out because their products are more expensive.
*head spinning*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian
They have negotiated opt-outs (this also applies to Denmark and informally to Sweden).
How many other "opt outs" has the UK "negotiated", pertaining to consumer law, for instance?
The currency situation proves that not all EU rules are implemented.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
So you're arguing that Apple isn't being singled out - yet you then argue that they SHOULD be singled out because their products are more expensive.
*head spinning*
Please explain what it was I said that leads you to think I singled Apple out. Was it the mention of cars as a corollary?
And as it so happens, the UK legislation does take into account the cost of an item as a factor in determining a reasonable expectation of service life.
Quote:
Satisfactory quality is defined as what a ‘reasonable person’ would regard as acceptable, and takes into account factors such as price paid
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60
So why does the UK still use their own currency?
Are they in the EU or not ?
The EU and the Euro are not mutually inclusive. Joining the Euro was never a condition of remaining a member of the EU. Some countries joined the Euro, and some didn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScartArt
The sales of goods act applies to the retailer not the manufacturer so this isn't really the same thing. Granted if you purchase at an Apple store then it applies.
It isn't just Apple though, I would challenge you to find any manufacturer or retailer than gives advise on the Sales of Goods act as a way to obtain repairs over and above a standard warranty. Personally I would argue that it isn't their responsibility, certainly in the UK they are not required by law to do so - consumers need to take some responsibility in knowing their rights. My understanding is it is different in Italy where they are required to highlight consumer rights which is where Apple were failing.
To my knowledge it is required by (EU) law to state that a product has 2 (or more) years warranty.
So Apple has to put that information on its website when a customer views a specific product.
Just checked, and no, currently only one year limited warranty on Apple products in the Dutch Apple store.
J.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60
So why does the UK still use their own currency?
Are they in the EU or not ?
Good question.
I saw some valid answers.
I would like to add that this is one of the reasons the EU doesn't work.
J.
First it doesn't prove anything, it creates doubt. Secondly, not that I'm aware of. As far as I know, the UK has 4 opt-outs: one from the EMU (Euro), another for the Charter of Fundamental Rights (a kind of European constitution), and two for the open borders.
I would say the EU works, it's the Euro that doesn't.
So it seems now they don't and only ever did by denying statutory EU rights.
Get it fixed Apple.
Originally Posted by cnocbui
I would say the EU works, it's the Euro that doesn't.
So just rename the currency to "Urow". Problem solved.