I guess my sale could be considered cannibalization. If the mini did not exist, I would have probably purchased the iPad4. (NO PRICE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH MY DECISION!)
I also wonder why everyone assumes that Apple makes less profit on the Mini? It very well may be the same profit level due to the higher component cost of the retina diaplay, larger batteries, and more powerful processor.
I do believe that the Mini is the smallest tablet that can be made to still get the full tablet experience. I see sales of the iPad declining and sales of the Mini increasing for the foreseeable future for this reason. A thinner, lighter iPad with a narrowed bezel might help them sale against the Mini, but it is still going to be less portable...
Also, as stated before, the iPad 4 coming out so soon after the iPad 3 will definitely limit it's sales because I would think few people would find the iPad 4 to be a big enough of an upgrade from the ipad 3....
Although I do know three people who own an iPad 3 that bought a Mini....
With 1000 as the sample size and a 99% confidence level you get a margin of error of just over 4%. With a confidence level of 90% you get a margin or error of just 2.6%.
I guess my sale could be considered cannibalization. If the mini did not exist, I would have probably purchased the iPad4. (NO PRICE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH MY DECISION!)
I see this is more like dimorphism than cannibalism. Take the Darwin Finches and feeding on cacti as an example. If you had the same number of finches and cacti the food source would be lower because they are fighting for the same part of the cacti and the finches have to struggle, but if you have them going for different parts of the cacti both types of finches can thrive without competing for the same resources.
I also wonder why everyone assumes that Apple makes less profit on the Mini? It very well may be the same profit level due to the higher component cost of the retina diaplay, larger batteries, and more powerful processor.
I do believe that the Mini is the smallest tablet that can be made to still get the full tablet experience. I see sales of the iPad declining and sales of the Mini increasing for the foreseeable future for this reason. A thinner, lighter iPad with a narrowed bezel might help them sale against the Mini, but it is still going to be less portable...
Also, as stated before, the iPad 4 coming out so soon after the iPad 3 will definitely limit it's sales because I would think few people would find the iPad 4 to be a big enough of an upgrade from the ipad 3....
Although I do know three people who own an iPad 3 that bought a Mini....
There are a couple of reasons. One, I think they stated in the last earnings call that their profit margin would be going down. Two, it's a cheaper device so even if the profit margin is the same they would have sell more of the higher end models and/or sell more units to match the profits. Still, I don't think it's an issue because all signs point to Apple selling more units to more people for a much larger total revenue and profit than had the iPad mini not existed at all.
I'm surprised to see the new to platform buyers higher for iPad than iPad mini. Also surprised the other tablets are growing while the Kindle Fire interest is decreasing.
Surface, Galaxy and Nexus tablets are taking market share away from someone, and its not Apple, not in statistically significant volume anyway. The obvious loser appears to be Amazon and Other.
I guess my sale could be considered cannibalization. If the mini did not exist, I would have probably purchased the iPad4. (NO PRICE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH MY DECISION!)
I also wonder why everyone assumes that Apple makes less profit on the Mini? It very well may be the same profit level due to the higher component cost of the retina diaplay, larger batteries, and more powerful processor.
I do believe that the Mini is the smallest tablet that can be made to still get the full tablet experience. I see sales of the iPad declining and sales of the Mini increasing for the foreseeable future for this reason. A thinner, lighter iPad with a narrowed bezel might help them sale against the Mini, but it is still going to be less portable...
Also, as stated before, the iPad 4 coming out so soon after the iPad 3 will definitely limit it's sales because I would think few people would find the iPad 4 to be a big enough of an upgrade from the ipad 3....
Although I do know three people who own an iPad 3 that bought a Mini....
Agreed. I bought an iPad3 a few months before the 4 came out. Yes, it has the much faster processor, but for what I use it for (and most people methink), the iPad4 is basically an iPad3 with the lightning connector.
I think they came out with the iPad4 so soon simply because they wanted to start the migration to the new connector ASAP and jettison the old legacy connector.
Also surprised the other tablets are growing while the Kindle Fire interest is decreasing.
I think the so-so-ness of the Fire cost Amazon some good will plus there was probably a good level of geek interest that transferred over to the Nexus. Plus this is "intentions" and not actual sales.
What I expected, the new size would attract people outside of those who would be attracted to the standard version. Expanding the potential sales customer pool.
Oh and chalk up another iPad3 owner that is open to buying a mini but is quite satisfied with the 3 thankyouverymuch. I'd be getting a mini for it's unique attribute of increased portability versus the standard size.
The very non scientific feedback i got from my loca apple store is that the mini is outselling the ipad4 2 to 1. Even if there is some cannibalisation, we have the potential to see a huge ipad number in q4.
But personnaly i think the mini is so popular because its cheaper and makes it a more affordable "gift" in the holiday season. The ratio may changed in january.
Two numbers really jump out at me from the "Purchase Intentions by Brand" chart.
1. Other Tablet dropping from 24% to 5%. Looks very bad for RIM and the other no-hopers.
Just a wild guess here, but I don't think RIM will be around as an independent corporation in a year.
They're following the same end-of-life trajectory as Palm. Too little, too late, consumers won't buy.
2. Microsoft Surface 12%, twice that of Google Nexus. Microsoft is too big to die (quickly.)
Another wild guess: Surface RT sales will quickly taper off after the first month, as will sales of
Surface with Windows 8 Pro after it's released. Whatever pent-up demand there is, for a
Microsoft tablet, will be satisfied. The novelty and sympathy factors will wear off and both
Surface models will be utter sales duds. Ballmer will say that sales are "moderate" ad nauseam.
Of course, Microsoft will keep selling both Surface models. To avoid losing face. Hoping sales
will eventually pick up, say, by the 3.0 release. It's just another cost of doing business. Just the
price Microsoft is willing to pay in order to keep up the appearance of knowing what they're doing.
The Windows + Office + Enterprise businesses will easily cover their Surface division losses.
Same as it ever was.
They'll keep shipping Surface because it allows them to cross off all those marketing check-boxes.
You know, the check-boxes on the list they came up with when they tried to respond to iPad.
"Looks good on paper. Ship it."
Forget the MSFT surface numbers shown for purchase intent. Once people actually see them, read the reviews on the hardware and performance, as well as the reviews on the horrible OS, they will quickly lose interest. It is mostly uninformed consumers that are even thinking about te Surface.
Apple offered 1 iPad. Now they offer the iPad Mini. If not for the iPad Mini...wouldn't those same users pick the bigger iPad if they were gonna get one?
Isnt that cannibalizing? Taking sales from the other one?
Apple offered 1 iPad. Now they offer the iPad Mini. If not for the iPad Mini...wouldn't those same users pick the bigger iPad if they were gonna get one?
Isnt that cannibalizing? Taking sales from the other one?
Yes, that is what is meant by a companying cannibalizing its own products. A company is more than happy to do if the result in additional profits exceeds that of any profit lost from the cannibalization. Apple has been very aggressive with cannibalizing its products before a competitor can eliminate that product. The iPhone cannibalizing the iPod is probably the greatest example of this.
Apple offered 1 iPad. Now they offer the iPad Mini. If not for the iPad Mini...wouldn't those same users pick the bigger iPad if they were gonna get one?
Thing is, plenty of people weren't going to buy the iPad at all, either because it was too small, too large, too heavy, etc.
Apple made a smaller one, sticking their net further out into the stream to catch some of that fully lost revenue. If some of their old coverage slips into the new, at least it's an Apple product.
Apple offered 1 iPad. Now they offer the iPad Mini. If not for the iPad Mini...wouldn't those same users pick the bigger iPad if they were gonna get one?
Many did buy the larger iPad because it was the only choice in an Apple device.
However, many decided to buy an Android 7" tablet instead(*), because they wanted the smaller form factor. That's partly why Apple decided to do the Mini.
(*) Or in addition to the larger iPad. Somewhere there's a chart that shows how many Americans own both iPads and 7" Android tablets / readers. Have to look for it.
Comments
Two numbers really jump out at me from the "Purchase Intentions by Brand" chart.
1. Other Tablet dropping from 24% to 5%. Looks very bad for RIM and the other no-hopers.
Just a wild guess here, but I don't think RIM will be around as an independent corporation in a year.
They're following the same end-of-life trajectory as Palm. Too little, too late, consumers won't buy.
2. Microsoft Surface 12%, twice that of Google Nexus. Microsoft is too big to die (quickly.)
Another wild guess: Surface RT sales will quickly taper off after the first month, as will sales of
Surface with Windows 8 Pro after it's released. Whatever pent-up demand there is, for a
Microsoft tablet, will be satisfied. The novelty and sympathy factors will wear off and both
Surface models will be utter sales duds. Ballmer will say that sales are "moderate" ad nauseam.
Of course, Microsoft will keep selling both Surface models. To avoid losing face. Hoping sales
will eventually pick up, say, by the 3.0 release. It's just another cost of doing business. Just the
price Microsoft is willing to pay in order to keep up the appearance of knowing what they're doing.
The Windows + Office + Enterprise businesses will easily cover their Surface division losses.
Same as it ever was.
They'll keep shipping Surface because it allows them to cross off all those marketing check-boxes.
You know, the check-boxes on the list they came up with when they tried to respond to iPad.
"Looks good on paper. Ship it."
I also wonder why everyone assumes that Apple makes less profit on the Mini? It very well may be the same profit level due to the higher component cost of the retina diaplay, larger batteries, and more powerful processor.
I do believe that the Mini is the smallest tablet that can be made to still get the full tablet experience. I see sales of the iPad declining and sales of the Mini increasing for the foreseeable future for this reason. A thinner, lighter iPad with a narrowed bezel might help them sale against the Mini, but it is still going to be less portable...
Also, as stated before, the iPad 4 coming out so soon after the iPad 3 will definitely limit it's sales because I would think few people would find the iPad 4 to be a big enough of an upgrade from the ipad 3....
Although I do know three people who own an iPad 3 that bought a Mini....
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
With 1000 as the sample size and a 99% confidence level you get a margin of error of just over 4%. With a confidence level of 90% you get a margin or error of just 2.6%.
Damn you beat me to it.
I see this is more like dimorphism than cannibalism. Take the Darwin Finches and feeding on cacti as an example. If you had the same number of finches and cacti the food source would be lower because they are fighting for the same part of the cacti and the finches have to struggle, but if you have them going for different parts of the cacti both types of finches can thrive without competing for the same resources.
There are a couple of reasons. One, I think they stated in the last earnings call that their profit margin would be going down. Two, it's a cheaper device so even if the profit margin is the same they would have sell more of the higher end models and/or sell more units to match the profits. Still, I don't think it's an issue because all signs point to Apple selling more units to more people for a much larger total revenue and profit than had the iPad mini not existed at all.
Surface, Galaxy and Nexus tablets are taking market share away from someone, and its not Apple, not in statistically significant volume anyway. The obvious loser appears to be Amazon and Other.
Huberty said these numbers show her that the cannibalization risk Apple faces with the iPad mini is "manageable."
Is this not a silly thing to say? 'cannabalization' is just a word for some strange imaginary concept. There is nothing to 'manange'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sranger
I guess my sale could be considered cannibalization. If the mini did not exist, I would have probably purchased the iPad4. (NO PRICE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH MY DECISION!)
I also wonder why everyone assumes that Apple makes less profit on the Mini? It very well may be the same profit level due to the higher component cost of the retina diaplay, larger batteries, and more powerful processor.
I do believe that the Mini is the smallest tablet that can be made to still get the full tablet experience. I see sales of the iPad declining and sales of the Mini increasing for the foreseeable future for this reason. A thinner, lighter iPad with a narrowed bezel might help them sale against the Mini, but it is still going to be less portable...
Also, as stated before, the iPad 4 coming out so soon after the iPad 3 will definitely limit it's sales because I would think few people would find the iPad 4 to be a big enough of an upgrade from the ipad 3....
Although I do know three people who own an iPad 3 that bought a Mini....
Agreed. I bought an iPad3 a few months before the 4 came out. Yes, it has the much faster processor, but for what I use it for (and most people methink), the iPad4 is basically an iPad3 with the lightning connector.
I think they came out with the iPad4 so soon simply because they wanted to start the migration to the new connector ASAP and jettison the old legacy connector.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalogJack
Huberty said these numbers show her that the cannibalization risk Apple faces with the iPad mini is "manageable."
Is this not a silly thing to say? 'cannabalization' is just a word for some strange imaginary concept. There is nothing to 'manange'.
Why is it imaginary?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Also surprised the other tablets are growing while the Kindle Fire interest is decreasing.
I think the so-so-ness of the Fire cost Amazon some good will plus there was probably a good level of geek interest that transferred over to the Nexus. Plus this is "intentions" and not actual sales.
What I expected, the new size would attract people outside of those who would be attracted to the standard version. Expanding the potential sales customer pool.
Oh and chalk up another iPad3 owner that is open to buying a mini but is quite satisfied with the 3 thankyouverymuch. I'd be getting a mini for it's unique attribute of increased portability versus the standard size.
Apple has said over and over that they love making products that cannibalize their own products.
It's much better to cannibalize yourself then have a competitor do it for you.
But personnaly i think the mini is so popular because its cheaper and makes it a more affordable "gift" in the holiday season. The ratio may changed in january.
Apple offered 1 iPad. Now they offer the iPad Mini. If not for the iPad Mini...wouldn't those same users pick the bigger iPad if they were gonna get one?
Isnt that cannibalizing? Taking sales from the other one?
Yes, that is what is meant by a companying cannibalizing its own products. A company is more than happy to do if the result in additional profits exceeds that of any profit lost from the cannibalization. Apple has been very aggressive with cannibalizing its products before a competitor can eliminate that product. The iPhone cannibalizing the iPod is probably the greatest example of this.
Originally Posted by jroc
Apple offered 1 iPad. Now they offer the iPad Mini. If not for the iPad Mini...wouldn't those same users pick the bigger iPad if they were gonna get one?
Thing is, plenty of people weren't going to buy the iPad at all, either because it was too small, too large, too heavy, etc.
Apple made a smaller one, sticking their net further out into the stream to catch some of that fully lost revenue. If some of their old coverage slips into the new, at least it's an Apple product.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jroc
I'm curious about something....
Apple offered 1 iPad. Now they offer the iPad Mini. If not for the iPad Mini...wouldn't those same users pick the bigger iPad if they were gonna get one?
Many did buy the larger iPad because it was the only choice in an Apple device.
However, many decided to buy an Android 7" tablet instead(*), because they wanted the smaller form factor. That's partly why Apple decided to do the Mini.
(*) Or in addition to the larger iPad. Somewhere there's a chart that shows how many Americans own both iPads and 7" Android tablets / readers. Have to look for it.