Samsung sues Apple in Korea over iOS Notification Center

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  • Reply 41 of 118
    kr00kr00 Posts: 99member
    frood wrote: »
    Google owns a patent on the notification center.  Samsung also holds a patent on how they implemented it on their phones.  Like most innovations these days, everybody adds a minor twist and tries to use that minor twist to block others from using the whole technology.  The current system encourages micropatented nifty but relatively underwhelming things.  Mobile patents seem to be among the worst since a huge number of the patents are things that have been done for years- but people are patenting that same functionality with the innovation being that it is now 'on a mobile device'

    Google has not chosen to sue Apple using its patent.  Just because you have a patent doesn't mean you have to sue everyone.  They may choose to sue Apple at a later date (and may even be encouraged to do so if Samsung wins, or it may encourage Apple to settle out of court with Google)
    Samsung has chosen to sue Apple using its patent.  This particular case is about Samsung vs Apple.


    The courts and lawyers should just save a lot of time and money and use my verdict.

    Verdict:
    Notifications were a highly innovative and extremely useful addition to mobile devices.  No mobile device (not even the iPhone) could even really be considered modern without it.  Google came up with it, Samsung implemented it, and Apple saw its benefit.  Apple copied it fairly blatantly, with barely even a minor cosmetic difference.

    Apple:  Guilty of infringing on Samsungs patent.
    Samsungs patent (and Googles if they choose to 'expose' it to the courts):  Useful.  Innovative.  Obvious.  Fairly trivial.  Invalid.
    Damages: 0

    If the courts keep doing this consistently to both sides, they will learn that paying a lot of money for lawyers to argue with each other isn't panning out and patenting trivial things isn't going to get you a billion dollars nor gain an injunction to prevent any competition in the market. 

    The 'bar' for what constitutes a patent needs to be set far closer to an invention than an innovation:
    You come to the patent office with something more akin to 'electricity'  Yep.  That's a patent.  FRAND only.
    You come to the patent office with:
    Cut and paste has been on desktops for years via highlighting and dragging with a mouse.  My 'amazing' invention is you do the same thing on a touchscreen, but now you're using your finger!  Other companies can still compete if I choose not to license my patent, they'll just have to have their users carry around a mouse and connect it to their cell phones (*snicker*).   No patent for you. 

    Except NC existed on the iPhone long before samescum or google stole the idea. Lockinfo by David Ashman, late 2008, for JB iPhones. Who stole who's idea? Look it up. http://www.lockinfo.net/ version 1.1 was available for download through Cydia in January 2009. Google can't sue as prior art will kill any suit dead in its tracks."Google came up with it". The word is STOLE. Google don't create anything, like samescum, they just steal. Show me NC on android prior to 2008, please, I beg you!!!!! You can't.

    Your verdict. Shot down. In flames. Prior art, prior art. You lose. Go dance on someone else's grave.
  • Reply 42 of 118
    hmmhmm Posts: 3,405member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Kr00 View Post





    Except NC existed on the iPhone long before samescum or google stole the idea. Lockinfo by David Ashman, late 2008, for JB iPhones. Who stole who's idea? Look it up. http://www.lockinfo.net/ version 1.1 was available for download through Cydia in January 2009. Google can't sue as prior art will kill any suit dead in its tracks."Google came up with it". The word is STOLE. Google don't create anything, like samescum, they just steal. Show me NC on android prior to 2008, please, I beg you!!!!! You can't.

    Your verdict. Shot down. In flames. Prior art, prior art. You lose. Go dance on someone else's grave.




    I'd like to see that happen. If it shouldn't have been granted, it's an unnecessary impediment to other companies. Cydia developers have always been extremely creative, so it wouldn't surprise me. I recall much of what originated there, but I haven't specifically compared this. I just hate seeing trivial concepts tied to patents. Note the word concepts. That aside, your writing style is far too emotional.

  • Reply 43 of 118
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Speaking of JB apps/utilities...

    [VIDEO]
  • Reply 44 of 118
    habihabi Posts: 317member
    cnocbui wrote: »

    Not true.  Bada had the notification bar from inception and it's introduction in the Wave S8500, which would be around Jan 2010.  iOS didn't get the notification bar until June 2011 and iOS 5

    What the f(€&/ guys!?! I had notifications on my ms pocket pc:s on the end of the 90:s!!!

    There is way long ago prior art on this one so please stop the crap talk NOW.
  • Reply 45 of 118
    alexnalexn Posts: 119member
    If it moves, sue it. If it doesn't move, kick it 'til it does, then sue it ;).

    All very sad - the latest Samsuit smacks a wee little bit o' the desparation...
  • Reply 46 of 118
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 12,985member
    frxntier wrote: »
    What a ridiculous statement. LED-backlit LED displays give the best picture you'll find on the market today. If the picture is overexposed, then adjust the contrast. Use a proper colour and gamma correction blu-ray to calibrate your display.
    Yes, plasma is the closest thing to a CRT (bar a CRT) but who the hell wants that? The colour is terrible, as is the picture quality.

    Are you kidding? LCD/LED cannot reproduce the same amount of colors as a plasma. Colors look natural and not every show looks like Yo Gabba Gabba.
  • Reply 47 of 118


    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

    …not every show looks like Yo Gabba Gabba.


     


    Though they certainly seem to be trending that way. Ludicrously lit, unnatural colors, etc.

  • Reply 48 of 118
    Wonder how much the price of Apple & Samsung products would be reduced if these incessant law suits were eliminated? Contrary wise , how much of our tech dollar is spent defending our favorite tech supplier? Where are those oh-so-knowledgeable tech infotainers when they're needed?
  • Reply 49 of 118
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,930member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Kr00 View Post





    Except NC existed on the iPhone long before samescum or google stole the idea. Lockinfo by David Ashman, late 2008, for JB iPhones. Who stole who's idea? Look it up. http://www.lockinfo.net/ version 1.1 was available for download through Cydia in January 2009. Google can't sue as prior art will kill any suit dead in its tracks."Google came up with it". The word is STOLE. Google don't create anything, like samescum, they just steal. Show me NC on android prior to 2008, please, I beg you!!!!! You can't.

    Your verdict. Shot down. In flames. Prior art, prior art. You lose. Go dance on someone else's grave.


    The notification bar has been part of the Android OS since version 1.0, and predating the Cydia app for the iPhone from David Ashman that you mentioned.


     


    EDIT: Android notifications are shown here on the first shipping consumer smartphone that ever used that OS. Note the date of the article.


    http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/16/t-mobile-g1-review-part-2-software-and-wrap-up/

  • Reply 50 of 118
    "Reason for return:  Noticed it was made by Samsung "

    Yep. But be sure to open the box if you can.
  • Reply 51 of 118
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    gatorguy wrote: »
    The notification bar has been part of the Android OS since version 1.0, and predating the Cydia app for the iPhone from David Ashman that you mentioned.

    EDIT: Android notifications are shown here on the first shipping consumer smartphone that ever used that OS. Note the date of the article.
    http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/16/t-mobile-g1-review-part-2-software-and-wrap-up/

    Android 1.0 - 23.09.2008 — Notifications appear in the Status bar
    Android 3.0 - 22.02.2011 — Added System Bar, featuring quick access to notifications, status, and soft navigation buttons, available at the bottom of the screen

    iOS (JB) - 14.05.2008 — IntelliScreen
    iOS (JB) - 30.09.2008 — StatusNotifier

    And, of course, Newton.
  • Reply 52 of 118
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,930member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    Android 1.0 - 23.09.2008 — Notifications appear in the Status bar

    Android 3.0 - 22.02.2011 — Added System Bar, featuring quick access to notifications, status, and soft navigation buttons, available at the bottom of the screen

    iOS (JB) - 14.05.2008 — IntelliScreen

    iOS (JB) - 30.09.2008 — StatusNotifier

    And, of course, Newton.


    12/17/2007  Hmm... Is that a notification bar I see at the top of this pic? I'll see you and raise you one.image


    http://gizmodo.com/334909/google-android-prototype-in-the-wild?tag=gadgetsandroidhardwareinthewild


     


    I can go further back and add more detail if you'd like, for instance the API's. (FWIW there was Android support for touchscreens too) The Android status bar goes back at least as early as Fall/2007, months before anything similar from even 3rd party developers for iOS, and certainly nothing from Apple themselves.


     


    That doesn't mean Apple "stole" their notifications bar from Android, but it proves beyond a doubt that Android didn't borrow the idea from any Cydia developer. Seems more likely to be the other way around if anything.


     


    EDIT: For those that want to still insist that Google got the idea for the notifications/status bar from iOS jailbreakers, here's a video link demonstrating the feature (@2:19). Upload date: Nov 11th, 2007. And gosh gee whiz there's even a touchscreen model demoed beginning at the 3:00 minute mark.


  • Reply 53 of 118
    Notifications has been a thing on IPhones for years, it was just sent above the screen in IOS 5, I do not see why this is worth trying.
  • Reply 54 of 118
    Notifications has been a thing on IPhones for years, it was just sent above the screen in IOS 5, I do not see why this is worth trying.

    It's not about notifications themselves but the way they're done.

    As far as I can tell this is a South Korean patent case though so it'll have little or no bearing on Apple's cases ultimately.
  • Reply 55 of 118
    solipsismx wrote: »
    Android 1.0 - 23.09.2008 — Notifications appear in the Status bar
    Android 3.0 - 22.02.2011 — Added System Bar, featuring quick access to notifications, status, and soft navigation buttons, available at the bottom of the screen
    iOS (JB) - 14.05.2008 — IntelliScreen
    iOS (JB) - 30.09.2008 — StatusNotifier
    And, of course, Newton.

    Intelliscreen was a bunch of widgets over the lock screen initially.

    Statusnotifier was a bunch of icons on the status bar though but that doesn't predate Android. Or anything for that matter as I recall all manner of phone having status bar icons.
  • Reply 56 of 118
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,930member


    BTW, a little side-note I've mentioned in the past. Before the Blackberry-clone Android phone that seems to be a favorite subject here, there was an even earlier leak of a supposed touchscreen-enabled smartphone running Android, the Google Switch or GPhone. That one goes all the way back to January of 2007. Search and ye will find.


     


    The Blackberry-esque leak was nearly a year later, in Dec/07.

  • Reply 57 of 118
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    gatorguy wrote: »
    BTW, a little side-note I've mentioned in the past. Before the Blackberry-clone Android phone that seems to be a favorite subject here, there was an even earlier leak of a supposed touchscreen-enabled smartphone running Android, the Google Switch or GPhone. That one goes all the way back to January of 2007. Search and ye will find.

    The Blackberry-esque leak was nearly a year later, in Dec/07.

    This is not even close to being a real product. At least with the BB copy for Android it looked like a real product. As sites were saying with this blurry "leak" that came out 9 days after the iPhone was announced to the world, it looks photoshopped. The only arguments I have to support to that being real is that 1) I'd consider any PS user to design something less horrific, and 2) the use of a scroll bar and small touch points do make it seem like it was conceived pre-iPhone as the usage would have clearly required a stylus, which also means it's more likely to resistive touch, and there is certainly no evidence of it being multi-touch.

  • Reply 58 of 118
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,930member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    This is not even close to being a real product. At least with the BB copy for Android it looked like a real product. As sites were saying with this blurry "leak" that came out 9 days after the iPhone was announced to the world, it looks photoshopped. The only arguments I have to support to that being real is that 1) I'd consider any PS user to design something less horrific, and 2) the use of a scroll bar and small touch points do make it seem like it was conceived pre-iPhone as the usage would have clearly required a stylus, which also means it's more likely to resistive touch, and there is certainly no evidence of it being multi-touch.


    Did you watch the video I linked where Android features were demoed on a touchscreen model posted up in early November 2007, so obviously working even earlier than that? Skip to the 3:00 minute mark if you don't care about watching the entire thing. Look ma, no stylus.



     


    As for multi-touch it's been widely reported why Google held back on offering that particular touchscreen feature. Since you didn't mention the notification bar, I'm guessing you're giving me that one. 

  • Reply 59 of 118
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    gatorguy wrote: »
    Did you watch the video I linked where Android features were demoed on a touchscreen model posted up in early November 2007, so obviously working even earlier than that. As for multi-touch it's been widely reported why Google held back on offering that particular touchscreen feature.

    Since you didn't mention the notification bar, I'm guessing you're giving me that one. 

    You mean the video with what appears to be a roller-ball on the device for scrolling and using buttons (the volume buttons?) on the side of the device to zoom the page in and out? Now that video does appear to show capacitance scrolling but it's notably jaggy and only demos single-touch. For being nearly a year after the iPhone was debuted they surely didn't seem to do much... or were so woefully behind (read: going in the wrong direction) that they had to start so much over from scratch just to get to that point.

    You can tell from the part of the clip you pointed out (at 3m:45 and 3m50s) that the OS was still designed for a WinCE type device with a stylus (or scrollwheel or D-pad) and for the small display a device with a physical keyboard, respectively. He doesn't even place his finger on the display to play Quake and to switch to Street View there is a physical button that is pressed to bring up a contextual menu.

    All of this is just reinforcing Android just playing follow-the-leader.
  • Reply 60 of 118
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    gatorguy wrote: »
    12/17/2007  Hmm... Is that a notification bar I see at the top of this pic? I'll see you and raise you one.:)
    http://gizmodo.com/334909/google-android-prototype-in-the-wild?tag=gadgetsandroidhardwareinthewild

    I can go further back and add more detail if you'd like, for instance the API's. (FWIW there was Android support for touchscreens too) The Android status bar goes back at least as early as Fall/2007, months before anything similar from even 3rd party developers for iOS, and certainly nothing from Apple themselves.

    That doesn't mean Apple "stole" their notifications bar from Android, but it proves beyond a doubt that Android didn't borrow the idea from any Cydia developer. Seems more likely to be the other way around if anything.

    EDIT: For those that want to still insist that Google got the idea for the notifications/status bar from iOS jailbreakers, here's a video link demonstrating the feature (@2:19). Upload date: Nov 11th, 2007. And gosh gee whiz there's even a touchscreen model demoed beginning at the 3:00 minute mark.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FJHYqE0RDg&feature=player_embedded#!

    Too bad Apple's method doesn't use a "notification bar" which is where your whole argument falls apart, in much the same way any attempt by Google to use their specific patent to sue Apple would also call apart.

    Apple introduced drop downs with the Lisa in the early eighties, if you want prior art more like Apple's implementation.
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