I ordered a Refurb MBP 13" on Dec. 17th. Apple shipped it to me for FREE PRIORITY OVERNIGHT on Dec. 19th and it arrived late Dec. 20th. What company does this but maybe Zappos.com?
agreed that this is likely a major factor in the disatistifaction. Especially when you consider that they were only asking during holiday shopping. Not to mention that I question the survey in general in terms of sample size and selection. I suspect it is far from statistically sound on either front. For all we know for every person asked there were 10 others who were very satisfied who simply weren't asked
...but that was NOT the case when Apple scored higher? The methodology has suddenly changed or something?
Bury your heads in the sand if you choose, but some of us are becoming frustrated with Apple, and the response to development of web site may be reflecting that. It's not terrible (obviously) but it *is* more difficult to find certain product details and support information than it was just a couple years ago. Shoppers may also be reacting to the exorbitantly priced BTO options now that they don't have third-party alternatives and choices are more limited than ever.
You've clearly come into this with the idea that Apple has somehow created it's profit margins up front and any upgrades should be down at some magical, near cost value you've imagined in your head. That isn't how reality works. You can't walk up to a bus or train and say "I don't have a ticket, but since you're going that way why not give me a ride?" just as as you can't say "I have already configured an iMac, now I want to add a couple upgrades so why not give them to me at cost? I'll even through an extra $5 because I'm a nice guy." That's fucking bullshit!
And what if I told you that's because the standard config iMacs are sold at less than their optimal sale value to achieve a lower starting price? Well, you'd probably erroneously call that bait-and-switch. You'd be wrong, of course. Bottom line is they figure out everything long before it goes on sale so they can try to make their profit margin. If you only want to support companies that don't how to make a profit instead of buying equipment that suits your particular needs then Apple isn't for you. In fact, talking about how you should be able to change out your components tells me the iMac certainly isn't for you.
Note that Intel's current price list has the Core i7-3770 (8M cache, 4 Cores, 8 Threads, 3.40 GHz. 22nm) at $294 and the Core i5-3470 (6M cache, 4 Cores, 4 Threads, 3.20 GHz, 22nm) at $184. That's a $110 difference. Yeah, right, Apple doesn't pay that, but the point is the difference in price. Sure, right, it will vary but which do you think Apple gets a better deal on the more expensive on in the BTO 27" iMac that they buy less of or one that is a standard build processor? That's right, the chances are that they get a bigger discount on the cheaper processor so that $110 difference could potentially be greater.
PS: It's only the 21.5" iMac that doesn't user accessible RAM, not iMacs.
PPS: If you want to build your own Hackintosh there are plenty of sites that detail how to do it and which HW is best supported. If you don't like the support they have then write your own drivers to better support your particular wishes but complaining about a company charging you for an upgrade is ridiculous.
First of all, no, you're wrong. What I point out is that they charge more for an upgrade of a mere 8GB for what I can buy 32 GB for, which is a huge difference in price, and they pay a lot less than I would. It costs $40 for an 8GB stick of high quality memory these dasys. Those processor prices are real prices - Core i7 3770 at Microcenter is $259 and the Core i5 $149. They surely pay less than that in quantity, despite Intel's "official" price list. So, nearly 100% markup for an upgrade? $110 real cost plus $90 markup? Ouch... It's all too easy for a good Mac with just a couple of upgrades to get astronomical in price.
First of all, no, you're wrong. What I point out is that they charge more for an upgrade of a mere 8GB for what I can buy 32 GB for, which is a huge difference in price, and they pay a lot less than I would. It costs $40 for an 8GB stick of high quality memory these dasys.
So if you want 32GB in the newest iMac you simply buy it and install it yourself. Not a big deal! That's what I'm doing. I'm spending $300 on 32GB from Newegg. That's half of what Apple charges for the 32GB. It'll take 2 minutes to complete. So where it the problem?
BTW, you brought up the cost of upgrading the processor.
Those processor prices are real prices - Core i7 3770 at Microcenter is $259 and the Core i5 $149. They surely pay less than that in quantity, despite Intel's "official" price list. So, nearly 100% markup for an upgrade? $110 real cost plus $90 markup? Ouch... It's all too easy for a good Mac with just a couple of upgrades to get astronomical in price.
Again, any price you can find for some processor you think is the same in performance and power is irrelevant. What is comparable is the price difference between them (even you say they are $110 apart). But even that is irrelevant because that is not how upgrades work. They aren't rewarding your desire by selling you the non-standard, high-end options; you are rewarding yourself. They know there are plenty of people just like you that say 'I want the best (for the sake of being the best" that will buy it despite your bellyaching simply you want to use that for dick measuring. It's no different than any other well marketed product. The only thing that is relevant is if it's the product you want. If not, then shop somewhere else. If it is, then buy it. This is difficult to understand.
I say stop buying Apple products if you don't like them making a profit or like them making machines that you can't service. This is nothing new for the iMac (see first flatscreen iMacs).
Mine disappeared and I found it in another settings menu (forgot which one). Once I turned my phone off/on it came back to the main page of the settings menu. This was on Rogers.
OK, thanks for the reply. I already re-booted my phone twice, the hotspot option is still gone. I'll have to visit a Genius bar to see if they have a solution.
I say stop buying Apple products if you don't like them making a profit or like them making machines that you can't service. This is nothing new for the iMac (see first flatscreen iMacs).
Yes, people should stop feeling so entitled to various price points, but let's think about this... I've said before that Apple's pricing strategy should be reconsidered with respect to memory upgrades, not just for Macs but for iPads and iPhones as well. A lot of smart (and loyal Apple) customers are feeling ripped off when it comes to upgrades on memory. I'm not saying it's an Apple-only practice or an Apple-only sentiment. But we shouldn't ignore this sentiment as it's a very real concern.
I say, bring down the price of memory upgrades...just like most fast food places brought down the price of up-sized soda pop!
I've said before that Apple's pricing strategy should be reconsidered with respect to memory upgrades, not just for Macs but for iPads and iPhones as well. A lot of smart (and loyal Apple) customers are feeling ripped off when it comes to upgrades on memory. I'm not saying it's an Apple-only practice or an Apple-only sentiment. But we shouldn't ignore this sentiment as it's a very real concern.
Yes, people should stop feeling so entitled to various price points, but let's think about this... I've said before that Apple's pricing strategy should be reconsidered with respect to memory upgrades, not just for Macs but for iPads and iPhones as well. A lot of smart (and loyal Apple) customers are feeling ripped off when it comes to upgrades on memory. I'm not saying it's an Apple-only practice or an Apple-only sentiment. But we shouldn't ignore this sentiment as it's a very real concern.
If it's not priced right (as in too high or too low) then they hurt their sales. I'm certainly not being anymore than the 8GB minimum for my 27" iMac. In fact, I don't care about any additional upgrade except for the 3TB Fusion Drive. Now I'll likely get a better CPU and GPU but if they don't have that available then I'll likely just say screw it as both are much better than my 13" 2010 MBP.
I'll be getting my RAM from Newegg. It's $300 from them for 32GB rather than $600 from Apple. Now, with Apple I do get them to install it and warranty it which is better than having Newegg warranty it for 30 days and then the manufacturer warranty it for life. Why is Apple's 3 year warranty better than a lifetime warranty from the manufacture? It's simple, RAM doesn't have moving parts so any issues are likely going to occur well within those 3 years and if there is a problem Apple will fix it without any cost to me, whereas the manufacturer will require me to go to their site, fill out a form, find my receipt, make a copy, then ship in the RAM on their dime. They also don't tend to be as quick with repairs. For $300 I'll risk it for RAM since the chances of an issue are slim but for others this simply isn't a good option.
I say, bring down the price of memory upgrades...just like most fast food places brought down the price of up-sized soda pop!
Interesting you should mention that. This goes along with what I was saying about the pricing model. McDonald's can charge you a little more for a larger drink thus bringing down your cost per ounce because they are charging a lot for the lower capacity. They have most certainly figured what their desired profit margin is and what percentage of people buy drinks at very capacities.
Would you really want Apple to charge hundreds of dollars more per base Mac just so that the upgrade pricing looks like it's saving you money? No matter what Apple will still make the same profit on the decked out Mac as they would before.
@drewys808
I wish they made the iMac $7999 so we could skim out the current customer base.
They need to make it $8000 for the cheapest iMac and then knock off hundreds of dollars every time to upgrade to a better component. This way everyone would buy the top end Mac (at the same price it is now for a decked out Mac). How can you afford not to upgrade?¡
Interesting you should mention that. This goes along with what I was saying about the pricing model. McDonald's can charge you a little more for a larger drink thus bringing down your cost per ounce because they are charging a lot for the lower capacity. They have most certainly figured what their desired profit margin is and what percentage of people buy drinks at very capacities.
Would you really want Apple to charge hundreds of dollars more per base Mac just so that the upgrade pricing looks like it's saving you money? No matter what Apple will still make the same profit on the decked out Mac as they would before.
And that's a fair point to make. Because most often, it is perception (of the customer and bottom line profit for the corporation). I gather then, that you're saying that Apple's bottom end prices are in fact, cheaper than they need to be (as opposed to fast food beverages)?...you were kind of inferring that, right? IMO on the contrary... most probably perceive Apple's bottom end prices NOT at all low.
But let me clarify. I'm not trying to blow this out of proportion....just bringing some merit to others' posts....and hopefully bringing some sane/valuable discussion to the table.
People pay Apple's prices for upgrades, otherwise those wouldn't be the prices for upgrades. And as a growing number of people buy Apple's computers both every quarter and YoY, it's safe to say their prices are correct.
You also have to take into consideration that it is physically impossible for them to make their devices any faster. They have to "price people out" of buying them to even barely meet the demand of those who can pay for them as-is. Apple would gladly accept smaller marketshare and lower sales for the sake of being able to actually get product in people's hands, making customers satisfied.
You can make a $10,000, fully electric car. You can promise it to people. You can take pre-orders. You'll get about 200 million. But since you can't possibly make that many in an amount of time acceptable to those people, you quintuple the price. You can then add higher-end features to make the vehicle better, make a greater profit, AND cut your orders down to an amount that can be physically fulfilled. Then your orderers will be quite pleased (and more so than previously, as the vehicles can have more luxuries), your pocketbook will be filled (allowing you to build more facilities or research faster/better manufacturing techniques), and your reputation bolstered.
Additionally, you have to remember: they used to be "worse". RAM was ludicrously expensive all the time back in the day. As of late, it has been quite competitively priced at the time of the new product's launch. That the price then never drops during the run of the model is an Apple ideas that has one of their highest simple:shrewd ratios.
People pay Apple's prices for upgrades, otherwise those wouldn't be the prices for upgrades. And as a growing number of people buy Apple's computers both every quarter and YoY, it's safe to say their prices are correct.
You also have to take into consideration that it is physically impossible for them to make their devices any faster. They have to "price people out" of buying them to even barely meet the demand of those who can pay for them as-is. Apple would gladly accept smaller marketshare and lower sales for the sake of being able to actually get product in people's hands, making customers satisfied.
You can make a $10,000, fully electric car. You can promise it to people. You can take pre-orders. You'll get about 200 million. But since you can't possibly make that many in an amount of time acceptable to those people, you quintuple the price. You can then add higher-end features to make the vehicle better, make a greater profit, AND cut your orders down to an amount that can be physically fulfilled. Then your orderers will be quite pleased (and more so than previously, as the vehicles can have more luxuries), your pocketbook will be filled (allowing you to build more facilities or research faster/better manufacturing techniques), and your reputation bolstered.
Additionally, you have to remember: they used to be "worse". RAM was ludicrously expensive all the time back in the day. As of late, it has been quite competitively priced at the time of the new product's launch. That the price then never drops during the run of the model is an Apple ideas that has one of their highest simple:shrewd ratios.
You've made some good points. The supply/demand balance is always in play, I understand that and feel that Apple has typically played well in that regard. However, my point is actually more along the lines of GB of iPhone/iPad flash...so really, it was my fault in taking it a bit off tangent. Anecdotally, I often hear of customer grievances regarding prices of upgrades. Not sure if it's worth listening to or not. But yes, I totally agree with erring on the side of quality instead of quantity when it comes to anything Apple. Appreciate your above thoughts.
And that's a fair point to make. Because most often, it is perception (of the customer and bottom line profit for the corporation). I gather then, that you're saying that Apple's bottom end prices are in fact, cheaper than they need to be (as opposed to fast food beverages)?...you were kind of inferring that, right? IMO on the contrary... most probably perceive Apple's bottom end prices NOT at all low.
But let me clarify. I'm not trying to blow this out of proportion....just bringing some merit to others' posts....and hopefully bringing some sane/valuable discussion to the table.
I didn't say they were low prices, I stated their lower end could be below their intended profit margins to help make a price point and to entice buyers. Bottom line is that no matter how you adjust the prices to suit what you want to pay for an upgrade you can't escape Apple wanting to maintain an average profit margin and total profit for a product category.
What PC and automobile vendors do with upgrades are very different from what fast food and movie theaters do with beverages. Why do you think you can buy a 2 liter of store-brand cola for 69¢ but it cost $2 at McDonalds for a large coke that is half filled with ice? People know they can get a cheaper beverage elsewhere so why don't they?
I didn't say they were low prices, I stated their lower end could be below their intended profit margins to help make a price point and to entice buyers. Bottom line is that no matter how you adjust the prices to suit what you want to pay for an upgrade you can't escape Apple wanting to maintain an average profit margin and total profit for a product category.
What PC and automobile vendors do with upgrades are very different from what fast food and movie theaters do with beverages. Why do you think you can buy a 2 liter of store-brand cola for 69¢ but it cost $2 at McDonalds for a large coke that is half filled with ice? People know they can get a cheaper beverage elsewhere so why don't they?
Not sure I understand your differentiation between low prices versus below their intended profit margin....seems to be pretty much the same in the eyes of the consumer in most cases.
I agree with everything you said except for 2 things in regards to "average profit margin":
1. Neither you nor me know what that number is.
2. That number (as defined by the Corporation) is a planned margin, but is not known until consumers "vote" with their wallet (i.e. buy the low end or the high end).
My point of contention is that it is quite possible that by reducing cost of the high end, more consumers will buy the high end, thereby actually increasing the average profit margin. It may not be viable for the Mac, but maybe more of a viable theory for flash storage (iPhones/iPads).
But hey, I'm not trying to quibble. I think that some here made some good points that Apple feels that its low end is good for the masses and that maybe it's the high end that really isn't really necessary or popular, so why reduce that price? In the end, Apple is almost always smarter than me. Almost always. :-)
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1
I ordered a Refurb MBP 13" on Dec. 17th. Apple shipped it to me for FREE PRIORITY OVERNIGHT on Dec. 19th and it arrived late Dec. 20th. What company does this but maybe Zappos.com?
Coincidentally, Amazon owns Zappos
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
agreed that this is likely a major factor in the disatistifaction. Especially when you consider that they were only asking during holiday shopping. Not to mention that I question the survey in general in terms of sample size and selection. I suspect it is far from statistically sound on either front. For all we know for every person asked there were 10 others who were very satisfied who simply weren't asked
...but that was NOT the case when Apple scored higher? The methodology has suddenly changed or something?
Bury your heads in the sand if you choose, but some of us are becoming frustrated with Apple, and the response to development of web site may be reflecting that. It's not terrible (obviously) but it *is* more difficult to find certain product details and support information than it was just a couple years ago. Shoppers may also be reacting to the exorbitantly priced BTO options now that they don't have third-party alternatives and choices are more limited than ever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
You've clearly come into this with the idea that Apple has somehow created it's profit margins up front and any upgrades should be down at some magical, near cost value you've imagined in your head. That isn't how reality works. You can't walk up to a bus or train and say "I don't have a ticket, but since you're going that way why not give me a ride?" just as as you can't say "I have already configured an iMac, now I want to add a couple upgrades so why not give them to me at cost? I'll even through an extra $5 because I'm a nice guy." That's fucking bullshit!
And what if I told you that's because the standard config iMacs are sold at less than their optimal sale value to achieve a lower starting price? Well, you'd probably erroneously call that bait-and-switch. You'd be wrong, of course. Bottom line is they figure out everything long before it goes on sale so they can try to make their profit margin. If you only want to support companies that don't how to make a profit instead of buying equipment that suits your particular needs then Apple isn't for you. In fact, talking about how you should be able to change out your components tells me the iMac certainly isn't for you.
Note that Intel's current price list has the Core i7-3770 (8M cache, 4 Cores, 8 Threads, 3.40 GHz. 22nm) at $294 and the Core i5-3470 (6M cache, 4 Cores, 4 Threads, 3.20 GHz, 22nm) at $184. That's a $110 difference. Yeah, right, Apple doesn't pay that, but the point is the difference in price. Sure, right, it will vary but which do you think Apple gets a better deal on the more expensive on in the BTO 27" iMac that they buy less of or one that is a standard build processor? That's right, the chances are that they get a bigger discount on the cheaper processor so that $110 difference could potentially be greater.
PS: It's only the 21.5" iMac that doesn't user accessible RAM, not iMacs.
PPS: If you want to build your own Hackintosh there are plenty of sites that detail how to do it and which HW is best supported. If you don't like the support they have then write your own drivers to better support your particular wishes but complaining about a company charging you for an upgrade is ridiculous.
First of all, no, you're wrong. What I point out is that they charge more for an upgrade of a mere 8GB for what I can buy 32 GB for, which is a huge difference in price, and they pay a lot less than I would. It costs $40 for an 8GB stick of high quality memory these dasys. Those processor prices are real prices - Core i7 3770 at Microcenter is $259 and the Core i5 $149. They surely pay less than that in quantity, despite Intel's "official" price list. So, nearly 100% markup for an upgrade? $110 real cost plus $90 markup? Ouch... It's all too easy for a good Mac with just a couple of upgrades to get astronomical in price.
So if you want 32GB in the newest iMac you simply buy it and install it yourself. Not a big deal! That's what I'm doing. I'm spending $300 on 32GB from Newegg. That's half of what Apple charges for the 32GB. It'll take 2 minutes to complete. So where it the problem?
BTW, you brought up the cost of upgrading the processor.
Again, any price you can find for some processor you think is the same in performance and power is irrelevant. What is comparable is the price difference between them (even you say they are $110 apart). But even that is irrelevant because that is not how upgrades work. They aren't rewarding your desire by selling you the non-standard, high-end options; you are rewarding yourself. They know there are plenty of people just like you that say 'I want the best (for the sake of being the best" that will buy it despite your bellyaching simply you want to use that for dick measuring. It's no different than any other well marketed product. The only thing that is relevant is if it's the product you want. If not, then shop somewhere else. If it is, then buy it. This is difficult to understand.
I say stop buying Apple products if you don't like them making a profit or like them making machines that you can't service. This is nothing new for the iMac (see first flatscreen iMacs).
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee
Off topic, but.....
Mine disappeared and I found it in another settings menu (forgot which one). Once I turned my phone off/on it came back to the main page of the settings menu. This was on Rogers.
OK, thanks for the reply. I already re-booted my phone twice, the hotspot option is still gone. I'll have to visit a Genius bar to see if they have a solution.
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
This is nothing new for the iMac (see first flatscreen iMacs).
Heck, the hard drives in the G3 models were hard enough to get to…
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
I say stop buying Apple products if you don't like them making a profit or like them making machines that you can't service. This is nothing new for the iMac (see first flatscreen iMacs).
Yes, people should stop feeling so entitled to various price points, but let's think about this... I've said before that Apple's pricing strategy should be reconsidered with respect to memory upgrades, not just for Macs but for iPads and iPhones as well. A lot of smart (and loyal Apple) customers are feeling ripped off when it comes to upgrades on memory. I'm not saying it's an Apple-only practice or an Apple-only sentiment. But we shouldn't ignore this sentiment as it's a very real concern.
I say, bring down the price of memory upgrades...just like most fast food places brought down the price of up-sized soda pop!
Originally Posted by drewys808
I've said before that Apple's pricing strategy should be reconsidered with respect to memory upgrades, not just for Macs but for iPads and iPhones as well. A lot of smart (and loyal Apple) customers are feeling ripped off when it comes to upgrades on memory. I'm not saying it's an Apple-only practice or an Apple-only sentiment. But we shouldn't ignore this sentiment as it's a very real concern.
Why? People pay them.
I wish they made the iMac $7999 so we could skim out the current customer base.
If it's not priced right (as in too high or too low) then they hurt their sales. I'm certainly not being anymore than the 8GB minimum for my 27" iMac. In fact, I don't care about any additional upgrade except for the 3TB Fusion Drive. Now I'll likely get a better CPU and GPU but if they don't have that available then I'll likely just say screw it as both are much better than my 13" 2010 MBP.
I'll be getting my RAM from Newegg. It's $300 from them for 32GB rather than $600 from Apple. Now, with Apple I do get them to install it and warranty it which is better than having Newegg warranty it for 30 days and then the manufacturer warranty it for life. Why is Apple's 3 year warranty better than a lifetime warranty from the manufacture? It's simple, RAM doesn't have moving parts so any issues are likely going to occur well within those 3 years and if there is a problem Apple will fix it without any cost to me, whereas the manufacturer will require me to go to their site, fill out a form, find my receipt, make a copy, then ship in the RAM on their dime. They also don't tend to be as quick with repairs. For $300 I'll risk it for RAM since the chances of an issue are slim but for others this simply isn't a good option.
Interesting you should mention that. This goes along with what I was saying about the pricing model. McDonald's can charge you a little more for a larger drink thus bringing down your cost per ounce because they are charging a lot for the lower capacity. They have most certainly figured what their desired profit margin is and what percentage of people buy drinks at very capacities.
Would you really want Apple to charge hundreds of dollars more per base Mac just so that the upgrade pricing looks like it's saving you money? No matter what Apple will still make the same profit on the decked out Mac as they would before.
They need to make it $8000 for the cheapest iMac and then knock off hundreds of dollars every time to upgrade to a better component. This way everyone would buy the top end Mac (at the same price it is now for a decked out Mac). How can you afford not to upgrade?¡
edit: Quoted wrong person.
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
They need to make it $8000 for the cheapest iMac and then knock off hundreds of dollars every time to upgrade to a better component.
The worst model is the most expensive…
That would actually work because people would still buy it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by muffinman
Coincidentally, Amazon owns Zappos
It's not really a coincidence, Amazon bought them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Why? People pay them.
Please expand/clarify.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Interesting you should mention that. This goes along with what I was saying about the pricing model. McDonald's can charge you a little more for a larger drink thus bringing down your cost per ounce because they are charging a lot for the lower capacity. They have most certainly figured what their desired profit margin is and what percentage of people buy drinks at very capacities.
Would you really want Apple to charge hundreds of dollars more per base Mac just so that the upgrade pricing looks like it's saving you money? No matter what Apple will still make the same profit on the decked out Mac as they would before.http://www.helium.com/items/2377226-beverages-the-secret-profit-makers-for-fast-food-restaurants
And that's a fair point to make. Because most often, it is perception (of the customer and bottom line profit for the corporation). I gather then, that you're saying that Apple's bottom end prices are in fact, cheaper than they need to be (as opposed to fast food beverages)?...you were kind of inferring that, right? IMO on the contrary... most probably perceive Apple's bottom end prices NOT at all low.
But let me clarify. I'm not trying to blow this out of proportion....just bringing some merit to others' posts....and hopefully bringing some sane/valuable discussion to the table.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie
@drewys808
I wish they made the iMac $7999 so we could skim out the current customer base.
Excuse me? Why even make that comment? Feel free to clarify.
Originally Posted by drewys808
Please expand/clarify.
People pay Apple's prices for upgrades, otherwise those wouldn't be the prices for upgrades. And as a growing number of people buy Apple's computers both every quarter and YoY, it's safe to say their prices are correct.
You also have to take into consideration that it is physically impossible for them to make their devices any faster. They have to "price people out" of buying them to even barely meet the demand of those who can pay for them as-is. Apple would gladly accept smaller marketshare and lower sales for the sake of being able to actually get product in people's hands, making customers satisfied.
You can make a $10,000, fully electric car. You can promise it to people. You can take pre-orders. You'll get about 200 million. But since you can't possibly make that many in an amount of time acceptable to those people, you quintuple the price. You can then add higher-end features to make the vehicle better, make a greater profit, AND cut your orders down to an amount that can be physically fulfilled. Then your orderers will be quite pleased (and more so than previously, as the vehicles can have more luxuries), your pocketbook will be filled (allowing you to build more facilities or research faster/better manufacturing techniques), and your reputation bolstered.
Additionally, you have to remember: they used to be "worse". RAM was ludicrously expensive all the time back in the day. As of late, it has been quite competitively priced at the time of the new product's launch. That the price then never drops during the run of the model is an Apple ideas that has one of their highest simple:shrewd ratios.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
People pay Apple's prices for upgrades, otherwise those wouldn't be the prices for upgrades. And as a growing number of people buy Apple's computers both every quarter and YoY, it's safe to say their prices are correct.
You also have to take into consideration that it is physically impossible for them to make their devices any faster. They have to "price people out" of buying them to even barely meet the demand of those who can pay for them as-is. Apple would gladly accept smaller marketshare and lower sales for the sake of being able to actually get product in people's hands, making customers satisfied.
You can make a $10,000, fully electric car. You can promise it to people. You can take pre-orders. You'll get about 200 million. But since you can't possibly make that many in an amount of time acceptable to those people, you quintuple the price. You can then add higher-end features to make the vehicle better, make a greater profit, AND cut your orders down to an amount that can be physically fulfilled. Then your orderers will be quite pleased (and more so than previously, as the vehicles can have more luxuries), your pocketbook will be filled (allowing you to build more facilities or research faster/better manufacturing techniques), and your reputation bolstered.
Additionally, you have to remember: they used to be "worse". RAM was ludicrously expensive all the time back in the day. As of late, it has been quite competitively priced at the time of the new product's launch. That the price then never drops during the run of the model is an Apple ideas that has one of their highest simple:shrewd ratios.
You've made some good points. The supply/demand balance is always in play, I understand that and feel that Apple has typically played well in that regard. However, my point is actually more along the lines of GB of iPhone/iPad flash...so really, it was my fault in taking it a bit off tangent. Anecdotally, I often hear of customer grievances regarding prices of upgrades. Not sure if it's worth listening to or not. But yes, I totally agree with erring on the side of quality instead of quantity when it comes to anything Apple. Appreciate your above thoughts.
I didn't say they were low prices, I stated their lower end could be below their intended profit margins to help make a price point and to entice buyers. Bottom line is that no matter how you adjust the prices to suit what you want to pay for an upgrade you can't escape Apple wanting to maintain an average profit margin and total profit for a product category.
What PC and automobile vendors do with upgrades are very different from what fast food and movie theaters do with beverages. Why do you think you can buy a 2 liter of store-brand cola for 69¢ but it cost $2 at McDonalds for a large coke that is half filled with ice? People know they can get a cheaper beverage elsewhere so why don't they?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
I didn't say they were low prices, I stated their lower end could be below their intended profit margins to help make a price point and to entice buyers. Bottom line is that no matter how you adjust the prices to suit what you want to pay for an upgrade you can't escape Apple wanting to maintain an average profit margin and total profit for a product category.
What PC and automobile vendors do with upgrades are very different from what fast food and movie theaters do with beverages. Why do you think you can buy a 2 liter of store-brand cola for 69¢ but it cost $2 at McDonalds for a large coke that is half filled with ice? People know they can get a cheaper beverage elsewhere so why don't they?
Not sure I understand your differentiation between low prices versus below their intended profit margin....seems to be pretty much the same in the eyes of the consumer in most cases.
I agree with everything you said except for 2 things in regards to "average profit margin":
1. Neither you nor me know what that number is.
2. That number (as defined by the Corporation) is a planned margin, but is not known until consumers "vote" with their wallet (i.e. buy the low end or the high end).
My point of contention is that it is quite possible that by reducing cost of the high end, more consumers will buy the high end, thereby actually increasing the average profit margin. It may not be viable for the Mac, but maybe more of a viable theory for flash storage (iPhones/iPads).
But hey, I'm not trying to quibble. I think that some here made some good points that Apple feels that its low end is good for the masses and that maybe it's the high end that really isn't really necessary or popular, so why reduce that price? In the end, Apple is almost always smarter than me. Almost always. :-)