I think behind all the hype, Apple has disappointed with the retina Macbook Pros. The 13" model is the worst of the set. The Macbook Pro Retina with 13" screen, 128GB SSD, and 8GB RAM has a value NO WHERE EVEN CLOSE to $1699 + Tax. They even have a 13" retina MBP configuration at $2700 + Tax. It is downright laughable. The icing on the cake is that they are using proprietary SSD blades, soldering the RAM to the $1200 logic board and virtually making the thing non-upgradeable and non-user serviceable. So you spend $1800-$2900 on a 13" laptop that has an shorter than normal lifespan due to technology advances and the fact that you can't upgrade normal basic components.
No need to bring out the haters. I own 2 iMacs, 2 MBPs, 3 iPads, 3 iPods, 3iPhones in my family. I love Apple Products which is why I spend more to buy them than I would have to if I bought PC, but if Apple thinks this year they are going to slim down to Macbook Airs and Macbook Pro Retinas, neither are serviceable by a user, I will be done with Apple Laptops and will need to find another. Nice to offer the Retinas to those that have the money to blow on them, but if you want a common user group, you will need to maintain some type of reasonable line of laptops.
Sales of Apple laptops are down 6%in spite of lack of new products. Sales of WIndows laptops are down 11% even with the much-hyped WIndows 8 launch.
ASP for Apple laptops is up $100. ASP for Windows laptops is up $2 (considerably less than inflation).
And somehow, this is bad news for Apple, but it's great news for Microsoft (at least, not as bad news for Microsoft - or you'd think so considering the way the market is reacting)?
ARM processors for laptops, unless they are dealing in arrays of them won't touch a present generation Intel or AMD CPU, not by a long shot. Neither will the ImgTec GPGPUs.
I think behind all the hype, Apple has disappointed with the retina Macbook Pros. The 13" model is the worst of the set. The Macbook Pro Retina with 13" screen, 128GB SSD, and 8GB RAM has a value NO WHERE EVEN CLOSE to $1699 + Tax. They even have a 13" retina MBP configuration at $2700 + Tax. It is downright laughable. The icing on the cake is that they are using proprietary SSD blades, soldering the RAM to the $1200 logic board and virtually making the thing non-upgradeable and non-user serviceable. So you spend $1800-$2900 on a 13" laptop that has an shorter than normal lifespan due to technology advances and the fact that you can't upgrade normal basic components.
No need to bring out the haters. I own 2 iMacs, 2 MBPs, 3 iPads, 3 iPods, 3iPhones in my family. I love Apple Products which is why I spend more to buy them than I would have to if I bought PC, but if Apple thinks this year they are going to slim down to Macbook Airs and Macbook Pro Retinas, neither are serviceable by a user, I will be done with Apple Laptops and will need to find another. Nice to offer the Retinas to those that have the money to blow on them, but if you want a common user group, you will need to maintain some type of reasonable line of laptops.
IMHO :-)
Then don't buy one and quityerbitchin.
In spite of all your complaints, Apple was down 6% - or half the decline that Windows laptops had. Apple's average selling price is up 50 times the amount of Windows laptops.
Obvously, someone doesn't agree with you. In particular, the market apparently doesn't care about expandability - so few people expand their laptops that it's just not an issue.
No. Period. Apple will kill laptops entirely, replacing them with the iPad (9.7", 11", 13.3", and a 15" once the weight can go down enough). They are NOT going to make laptops with touchscreens!
Most would agree that laptops with touchscreens is not really necessary, especially due to the iPad product line.
However, it does beg the question (and I'm serious about this question for which I do not have the answer, but believe it often impacts computer purchases)... how important is MS Office for computer shoppers?...because iOS doesn't do MS Office. Or is MS Office a non-issue?
Why? A traditional laptop with no software, a gimped OS, no Thunderbolt, and based on a mobile architecture would do better than the regular MacBook line, all of which would be vastly more capable? I mean, we've seen how well Surface RT did.
And again, they tried cellular telephony in a laptop. They decided against it.
ARM chips are improving in performance faster than intel is improving power management. Recompiling an app that runs on intel to run on arm is trivial
I think behind all the hype, Apple has disappointed with the retina Macbook Pros. The 13" model is the worst of the set. The Macbook Pro Retina with 13" screen, 128GB SSD, and 8GB RAM has a value NO WHERE EVEN CLOSE to $1699 + Tax. They even have a 13" retina MBP configuration at $2700 + Tax. It is downright laughable. The icing on the cake is that they are using proprietary SSD blades, soldering the RAM to the $1200 logic board and virtually making the thing non-upgradeable and non-user serviceable. So you spend $1800-$2900 on a 13" laptop that has an shorter than normal lifespan due to technology advances and the fact that you can't upgrade normal basic components.
I agree with you, as you'll see in my last comment, I chose the same model as the 13" retina, minus the drawbacks. The Standard MBP is a great machine and an even better value not that they offer the 2012 (fully upgraded, saved for HDD) as a refurbished...which is what I got. I got the 2.9 Ghtz i7, 750 GB HDD (user-upgradable to SSD, or even drop the DVD for a combo "Fusion Drive Setup), 8 GB RAM (user-upgradable to 16 GB), all for $1,269 + tax!
It doesn't bother me one bit that it's not retina, nor is it a pound lighter. I debated long and hard between that and the refurb 13" 2012 MBA, but for $600 less, I got a much more capable and upgradable machine.
The Retina MBP is nice, it may be the latest in tech, but for most (non-gamers and non-pro-sumers), the Air and the Standar Pro is more than you'll ever need...
Edit/Add: I also don't see the standard MBPs going away this year either. They might even do what a lot of people like me are doing, Dropping the DVD drive in favor of a SDD/Fusion Dirve setup. They kind of did something like this in the Mac Mini, but why they didn't place a fusion drive in the updated 2012 model is kind of a missed opportunity IMO.
However, it does beg the question (and I'm serious about this question for which I do not have the answer, but believe it often impacts computer purchases)... how important is MS Office for computer shoppers?...because iOS doesn't do MS Office. Or is MS Office a non-issue?
I'd say roughly zero percent. The iPad isn't suffering for lack thereof; it has iWork. The Surface isn't succeeding (by anyone's definition!) because it has Office; it's just terrible.
And if you're talking all iOS devices, that's even more readily apparent. All Windows Phone 7 and Windows Phone (is it still phone when phone, or is it just "Windows") 8 devices never took off, despite having access to Office.
I mean, iWork exports to DOC. Even in environments where Office still has a greater presence than iWork, that exporting is apparently all that is needed.
One of my biggest dreams right now is that the DOC format is dead in the first world by January 1, 2020. By extension, all of Microsoft Office. That'll require a push by Apple on two fronts: first into business as a whole and second to make iOS iWork and OS X (XI) iWork have absolute feature parity. They'll need to be identical applications, simply with different UI and UX.
Originally Posted by ifij775
ARM chips are improving in performance faster than intel is improving power management.
Sure, and I see that. Intel sees that. I know a guy there in chip design; he said ARM's their biggest worry.
Thing is, X86 still affords far more than ARM on every front, and it will for quite some time. Most of them visible to all, but some of the most important aren't readily apparent. I forget, uh, what was it, "ARM's just not ready to be a professional chip" or something…
I don't understand why these groups can keep such good track of Apple computer sales, but they can't ever find out about Kindle Fire sales. Wouldn't Amazon investors want to know how well or how poorly Amazon's tablet sales are doing? These groups are always so quick to jump on how poorly Apple product sales are doing. I'm sure many of not most companies will have lower sales than last year due to the poor economy, not just Apple.
I believe it's called a "netbook". Perhaps you heard of it? It's the cheaper-than-dirt notebooks that were supposed to decimate the PC (and Apple) and has just recently been been declared dead.
Apparently even consumers realized just how bad those pieces of junk actually were.
I never suggested any thing like a netbook, I am only saying that intel never really figured how to optimize their chips for power management.
One of my biggest dreams right now is that the DOC format is dead in the first world by January 1, 2020. By extension, all of Microsoft Office. That'll require a push by Apple on two fronts: first into business as a whole and second to make iOS iWork and OS X (XI) iWork have absolute feature parity. They'll need to be identical applications, simply with different UI and UX.
That might happen, but I doubt it. Unless Apple can make their current iWork Suite of Apps just as capable as Office Apps, it will still be around for another 7 years or more.
The current complaint i hear A LOT is that iWork is just not as capable as Office. Sure Pages reads and writes to .doc format (i might also mention the current standard, post-Office 2010 is .docx) but iWork Apps often have issues in the translations and compatibilities. I'm going to give iWork a chance to be my home/personal use Apps, but the world of business would never (right now or in the near future) rely 100% on it. Office is a much better Suite of programs than most Mac Users realize. Sure it's highly complex suite of Apps, but they need to be for business to function.
I don't understand why these groups can keep such good track of Apple computer sales, but they can't ever find out about Kindle Fire sales. Wouldn't Amazon investors want to know how well or how poorly Amazon's tablet sales are doing? These groups are always so quick to jump on how poorly Apple product sales are doing. I'm sure many of not most companies will have lower sales than last year due to the poor economy, not just Apple.
Overall retail sales in the US disappointed this holiday season. If this report is accurate, Apple actually outperformed considering that they dropped only 6% vs. 11% for Windows PC manufacturers, and managed a larger increase in average selling price. My guess is that the 13" rMBP is a bit pricey for a Christmas gift for most (the one I bought on 12/26/12 apparently was 4 days too late for NPD).
...as are creative pros like myself. Those who claim touch screens are tiring are wrong, what IS tiring is performing gestures in the air, but that is not the same.
I'm sure you're a 'creative type' (however self-proclaimed.)
But I'm a 'creative type' too. Want to know how much my creative output has gone up now that I have an intuitive way to do music, recording and even painting since I got my iPad?
To me, using a mouse designed for selecting text to do anything truly 'creative' is ridiculous.
The balance in advantage between tablet and old keyboard-based computing is just about at the tipping point.
On the whole, I agree, and wasn't praising Windows 8, as a UX designer myself, it is a disaster, but then so has every build of Windows and yet it owns 95% of the market as of Friday January 4 2013.
Further, I was not advocating a switch away from keyboards and mice - choice is better. My best ever phone was the Sony Ericsson P9XX series, because you could choose between:
1. Stylus
2. Touch
3. On screen keyboard
4. Mechanical keyboard
And the OS (Symbian) was far more intelligent than anything today. For example, to create an entry on the calendar, you just hold down over the appropriate day - little touches like that are priceless.
As I think most are hinting at, Apple need to release transportables, IE, a MacBook Air formfactor with a display that snaps off (using magnets perhaps?) and can be positioned either upside down on top of the keyboard, or even function on it's own with the battery in the display - NOT the keyboard.
Me thinks Apple will do this. If not, there are other contenders waiting in the wings...
See what Fujitsu, HP and Toshiba have done in this space over the last 15 years, some hardware quite innovative, just let down by rubbish software.
Comments
I think behind all the hype, Apple has disappointed with the retina Macbook Pros. The 13" model is the worst of the set. The Macbook Pro Retina with 13" screen, 128GB SSD, and 8GB RAM has a value NO WHERE EVEN CLOSE to $1699 + Tax. They even have a 13" retina MBP configuration at $2700 + Tax. It is downright laughable. The icing on the cake is that they are using proprietary SSD blades, soldering the RAM to the $1200 logic board and virtually making the thing non-upgradeable and non-user serviceable. So you spend $1800-$2900 on a 13" laptop that has an shorter than normal lifespan due to technology advances and the fact that you can't upgrade normal basic components.
No need to bring out the haters. I own 2 iMacs, 2 MBPs, 3 iPads, 3 iPods, 3iPhones in my family. I love Apple Products which is why I spend more to buy them than I would have to if I bought PC, but if Apple thinks this year they are going to slim down to Macbook Airs and Macbook Pro Retinas, neither are serviceable by a user, I will be done with Apple Laptops and will need to find another. Nice to offer the Retinas to those that have the money to blow on them, but if you want a common user group, you will need to maintain some type of reasonable line of laptops.
IMHO :-)
Well, can't blame me for the decline. I bought a 13" MBP of the holidays.
Granted I bought an iPad Mini (pre-order at launch) but I don't think that quite cancels each other out
Sales of Apple laptops are down 6%in spite of lack of new products. Sales of WIndows laptops are down 11% even with the much-hyped WIndows 8 launch.
ASP for Apple laptops is up $100. ASP for Windows laptops is up $2 (considerably less than inflation).
And somehow, this is bad news for Apple, but it's great news for Microsoft (at least, not as bad news for Microsoft - or you'd think so considering the way the market is reacting)?
Then don't buy one and quityerbitchin.
In spite of all your complaints, Apple was down 6% - or half the decline that Windows laptops had. Apple's average selling price is up 50 times the amount of Windows laptops.
Obvously, someone doesn't agree with you. In particular, the market apparently doesn't care about expandability - so few people expand their laptops that it's just not an issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
No. Period. Apple will kill laptops entirely, replacing them with the iPad (9.7", 11", 13.3", and a 15" once the weight can go down enough). They are NOT going to make laptops with touchscreens!
Most would agree that laptops with touchscreens is not really necessary, especially due to the iPad product line.
However, it does beg the question (and I'm serious about this question for which I do not have the answer, but believe it often impacts computer purchases)... how important is MS Office for computer shoppers?...because iOS doesn't do MS Office. Or is MS Office a non-issue?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macboy Pro
I think behind all the hype, Apple has disappointed with the retina Macbook Pros. The 13" model is the worst of the set. The Macbook Pro Retina with 13" screen, 128GB SSD, and 8GB RAM has a value NO WHERE EVEN CLOSE to $1699 + Tax. They even have a 13" retina MBP configuration at $2700 + Tax. It is downright laughable. The icing on the cake is that they are using proprietary SSD blades, soldering the RAM to the $1200 logic board and virtually making the thing non-upgradeable and non-user serviceable. So you spend $1800-$2900 on a 13" laptop that has an shorter than normal lifespan due to technology advances and the fact that you can't upgrade normal basic components.
I agree with you, as you'll see in my last comment, I chose the same model as the 13" retina, minus the drawbacks. The Standard MBP is a great machine and an even better value not that they offer the 2012 (fully upgraded, saved for HDD) as a refurbished...which is what I got. I got the 2.9 Ghtz i7, 750 GB HDD (user-upgradable to SSD, or even drop the DVD for a combo "Fusion Drive Setup), 8 GB RAM (user-upgradable to 16 GB), all for $1,269 + tax!
It doesn't bother me one bit that it's not retina, nor is it a pound lighter. I debated long and hard between that and the refurb 13" 2012 MBA, but for $600 less, I got a much more capable and upgradable machine.
The Retina MBP is nice, it may be the latest in tech, but for most (non-gamers and non-pro-sumers), the Air and the Standar Pro is more than you'll ever need...
Edit/Add: I also don't see the standard MBPs going away this year either. They might even do what a lot of people like me are doing, Dropping the DVD drive in favor of a SDD/Fusion Dirve setup. They kind of did something like this in the Mac Mini, but why they didn't place a fusion drive in the updated 2012 model is kind of a missed opportunity IMO.
Originally Posted by drewys808
However, it does beg the question (and I'm serious about this question for which I do not have the answer, but believe it often impacts computer purchases)... how important is MS Office for computer shoppers?...because iOS doesn't do MS Office. Or is MS Office a non-issue?
I'd say roughly zero percent. The iPad isn't suffering for lack thereof; it has iWork. The Surface isn't succeeding (by anyone's definition!) because it has Office; it's just terrible.
And if you're talking all iOS devices, that's even more readily apparent. All Windows Phone 7 and Windows Phone (is it still phone when phone, or is it just "Windows") 8 devices never took off, despite having access to Office.
I mean, iWork exports to DOC. Even in environments where Office still has a greater presence than iWork, that exporting is apparently all that is needed.
One of my biggest dreams right now is that the DOC format is dead in the first world by January 1, 2020. By extension, all of Microsoft Office. That'll require a push by Apple on two fronts: first into business as a whole and second to make iOS iWork and OS X (XI) iWork have absolute feature parity. They'll need to be identical applications, simply with different UI and UX.
Originally Posted by ifij775
ARM chips are improving in performance faster than intel is improving power management.
Sure, and I see that. Intel sees that. I know a guy there in chip design; he said ARM's their biggest worry.
Thing is, X86 still affords far more than ARM on every front, and it will for quite some time. Most of them visible to all, but some of the most important aren't readily apparent. I forget, uh, what was it, "ARM's just not ready to be a professional chip" or something…
Funny, I burn DVDs with my MacBook Air all the time. Guess some people are easily stumped by simple problems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
One of my biggest dreams right now is that the DOC format is dead in the first world by January 1, 2020. By extension, all of Microsoft Office. That'll require a push by Apple on two fronts: first into business as a whole and second to make iOS iWork and OS X (XI) iWork have absolute feature parity. They'll need to be identical applications, simply with different UI and UX.
That might happen, but I doubt it. Unless Apple can make their current iWork Suite of Apps just as capable as Office Apps, it will still be around for another 7 years or more.
The current complaint i hear A LOT is that iWork is just not as capable as Office. Sure Pages reads and writes to .doc format (i might also mention the current standard, post-Office 2010 is .docx) but iWork Apps often have issues in the translations and compatibilities. I'm going to give iWork a chance to be my home/personal use Apps, but the world of business would never (right now or in the near future) rely 100% on it. Office is a much better Suite of programs than most Mac Users realize. Sure it's highly complex suite of Apps, but they need to be for business to function.
It's how Amazon keeps its stock price up there.
Arrrgh.
Apple portables down 6% (in article title.)
Windows down 11%. (buried in article.)
How about a more accurate "iPads eating PC market for everyone"?
Apple still comes out on top.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifij775
A cheaper, lighter, longer-battery, arm-based notebook would destroy PC sales. Throw in LTE FTW
Would be an interesting product. Not sure how much lighter you can get than a MBA, but maybe longer battery life even though its already quite long.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oflife
...as are creative pros like myself. Those who claim touch screens are tiring are wrong, what IS tiring is performing gestures in the air, but that is not the same.
I'm sure you're a 'creative type' (however self-proclaimed.)
But I'm a 'creative type' too. Want to know how much my creative output has gone up now that I have an intuitive way to do music, recording and even painting since I got my iPad?
To me, using a mouse designed for selecting text to do anything truly 'creative' is ridiculous.
The balance in advantage between tablet and old keyboard-based computing is just about at the tipping point.
On the whole, I agree, and wasn't praising Windows 8, as a UX designer myself, it is a disaster, but then so has every build of Windows and yet it owns 95% of the market as of Friday January 4 2013.
Further, I was not advocating a switch away from keyboards and mice - choice is better. My best ever phone was the Sony Ericsson P9XX series, because you could choose between:
1. Stylus
2. Touch
3. On screen keyboard
4. Mechanical keyboard
And the OS (Symbian) was far more intelligent than anything today. For example, to create an entry on the calendar, you just hold down over the appropriate day - little touches like that are priceless.
As I think most are hinting at, Apple need to release transportables, IE, a MacBook Air formfactor with a display that snaps off (using magnets perhaps?) and can be positioned either upside down on top of the keyboard, or even function on it's own with the battery in the display - NOT the keyboard.
Me thinks Apple will do this. If not, there are other contenders waiting in the wings...
See what Fujitsu, HP and Toshiba have done in this space over the last 15 years, some hardware quite innovative, just let down by rubbish software.
Dooooooooomed.
Why? Because it's Apple and I don't recall the last time I heard anyone claim that Microsoft was doomed, or that anyone would be upset by that.