Samsung nixes plans for Windows RT tablets in US, citing 'modest' demand

13567

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 129
    Steve Ballmer is the best CEO i could possibly wish for !
  • Reply 42 of 129
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member

    I both agree and disagree.  I don't think the traditional Windows UI necessarily dooms a tablet to failure, much to the contrary, I think if you're vastly exceeding the cost of a full-on notebook, the full capabilities of Windows (the full desktop and the ability to run all you're x86 applications) is very important. 
    This flies in the face of real failure with respect to the Windows UI on tablets. Frankly I'm not sure how you can make such a statement considering how many times Windows UI on tablets has failed.
    I know iPads sell like hotcakes, but I, and a lot of others, simply aren't willing to spend upwards of $800 for a glorified smartphone. 
    If you see the iPad as a glorified smart phone, there is probably little that I can say to deal with that bit of ignorance. That is not to say that iPad is a replacement for a laptop running a conventional OS but the key here is that it was never intended to do that. It is a new way for people to solve their computing needs.
    Which is why, despite some of their decisions, I think Microsoft is on the right track with Windows 8 - provide a tablet friendly UI for basic and on-the-go tasks, and the full desktop for when you need to be productive with the "real" applications you need to use.  I know there's some overlap between "apps" and traditional "applications", but there's no denying that when real work needs to be done, there's no replacement for full desktop applications.
    Windows RT needs a massive overhaul to ever be competitive in the marketplace. It is basically junk code that will quickly develop a very negative opinion in the publics eyes.

    Clearly what's dooming Windows RT is that it's essentially nearly all the cost of a full Windows Pro system with none of the benefits - unlike iOS or Android tablets, the available app selection is extremely limited and limiting.  So you don't have access to your traditional applications, you don't have access to much in the way of apps, and the whole Metro UI is essentially barely out of beta status. 
    RT is junk in other words. Frankly I don't understand your need to promote junk even after you realize above that RT is junk.

    On the other hand, give it a generation or two, and I think Windows RT will be gone and Windows Pro will make a very compelling OS for truly dual-purpose tablets -
    The concept of a dual purpose tablet makes no sense at all. RT is so screwed up it will take the programming staff at MS another two years to iron it out to the point developer will take an interest. That gives Apple two years to evolve iOS in the same manner they have been over the last three years on iPads. It will give Apple a chance to implement new software features supported by new hardware.

    Don't get me wrong I honestly think that iCloud sucks terribly. There are more than few other issues with iOS but as I said Apple continuously evolves iOS. In a very literal sense iOS gets better with each revision.
    a touch friendly UI when it's used as a tablet, drop it into a dock and you have a full desktop OS for when you need those capabilities. 

    What is the point? A tablet by definition doesn't have the screen size to run full desktop apps well, nor does it have the memory and hardware support many desktop apps require. You obviously can't grasp why people make use of tablets in the 7-10 inch range, it isn't to replace a desktop that is for sure. Apple is on the right path here even if the implementation of some features leaves a lot to be desired. In a nut shell they have distilled down what is required when you are on the go and made it relatively easy to keep in sync with your primary machine.
  • Reply 43 of 129
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    wizard69 wrote: »
    This flies in the face of real failure with respect to the Windows UI on tablets. Frankly I'm not sure how you can make such a statement considering how many times Windows UI on tablets has failed.

    In all fairness, we don't know that.

    We know that Windows tablets have not been successful. But we can't be sure that it was the UI that failed. Perhaps it was the hardware. (My daughter had a Windows tablet for school and it was huge, heavy, and clunky).
  • Reply 44 of 129
    techboytechboy Posts: 183member
    Anyway you look at Surface, it is simply overpriced, lack of app library and an untested mobile OS. The real question is, does one really need to use Microsoft Office this badly???
  • Reply 45 of 129

    What is the killer app or reason for existence for Surface RT? For the Surface Pro?
  • Reply 46 of 129
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,757member


     


     


    Sure. And NUMBERS tell the tale. So far, they've been dismal for the Surface.

  • Reply 47 of 129
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    wizard69 wrote: »
    This may confuse some because underneath the UI there is the core of OS/X. They certainly peeled away much cruft and unneeded baggage but much of the underlying OS is the same as or very similar to OS/X. This is a very positive thing for software developers, especially if you have your code decoupled from the User Interface. Developers can at times write identical code (or copy and past) for each platform to access core features.

    Now obviously some things have changed significantly, the process scheduler for one. The UI is obviously different but the API is not unfamiliar to Apple developers.
    Apple didn't build iOS from the ground up either. They however made far more wise decisions about what was needed to get the first products out the door. It has very much been a two way street at Apple, the original iOS borrowed heavily from Mac OS and then later Mac OS was pruned to remove cruft and incorporate ideas and code from iOS. As hardware has become more capable Apple has built back into iOS more and more capability again at times borrowing from Mac OS/X.

    The most interesting thing here is that iOS has evolved very rapidly as hardware capabilities have increased. Reading the developer release notes for each version of iOS is at times very interesting, it seems like every release comes with more stuff ported from Mac OS/X. IOS has become far more capable while leaving the UI virtually the same.

    Don't I know it but I've given up that battle expect for specifying Mac OS X in my comment even though Apple has also given up the Mac qualifier in the name as of Mountain Lion.

    IIRC the way we got to iOS is like this. Apple took Mac OS X, stripped it out everything it didn't need which means it's Darwin OS plus a great many frameworks and other aspects both need, plus a 32-bit ARM compatible kernel. From there they built a new UI framework called CocoaTouch from the ground up.

    To me, that's the less confusing part. When the iPhone was first announced there was no official name for the OS but the Apple community quickly adopted the 'i' branding to call it iOS. I seem to recall the first updates were referred to as firmware updates, which is laughable considering that they were hundreds of megabytes. I think it was at WWDC in 2008 that we saw the banners that read OS X iPhone and OS X Leopard but that didn't last long as it soon became iPhone OS. It wasn't until after the iPad was announced, launched and had been a success that they changed iPhone OS to iOS.

    I'm torn by using OS/X because it's not following the OS/2 designation but it does allow a subtle change in how one might see the OS even though there might only be two people in the world right now that would read OS X and OS/X and think of two very different things. I wonder if a Taxonomic Rank of Operating Systems could be created?

    Ignoring code as a preliminary requirement so that C, C++, and Objective-C are equivalent to proteins, molecules and enzymes. The building blocks of "life".

    Example:
    Kingdom: POSIX
    Phylum: XNU
    Class: Mach
    Order: BSD
    Family: Darwin
    Genus: CocoaTouch
    Species: iOS

    Too much of a geeky, science crossover? :D

    edit: Sorry, Carl Linnaeus, I think this looks better with the fake Latinizing of the names.

    I'll notify Next of Kin!

    Just be clear, you are aware the Surface is the next Kin, right?

    What is the killer app or reason for existence for Surface RT? For the Surface Pro?

    That's simple. Apple's iPad s killing their WinPC licensing.
  • Reply 48 of 129
    solipsismx wrote: »
    wizard69 wrote: »
    This may confuse some because underneath the UI there is the core of OS/X. They certainly peeled away much cruft and unneeded baggage but much of the underlying OS is the same as or very similar to OS/X. This is a very positive thing for software developers, especially if you have your code decoupled from the User Interface. Developers can at times write identical code (or copy and past) for each platform to access core features.

    Now obviously some things have changed significantly, the process scheduler for one. The UI is obviously different but the API is not unfamiliar to Apple developers.
    Apple didn't build iOS from the ground up either. They however made far more wise decisions about what was needed to get the first products out the door. It has very much been a two way street at Apple, the original iOS borrowed heavily from Mac OS and then later Mac OS was pruned to remove cruft and incorporate ideas and code from iOS. As hardware has become more capable Apple has built back into iOS more and more capability again at times borrowing from Mac OS/X.

    The most interesting thing here is that iOS has evolved very rapidly as hardware capabilities have increased. Reading the developer release notes for each version of iOS is at times very interesting, it seems like every release comes with more stuff ported from Mac OS/X. IOS has become far more capable while leaving the UI virtually the same.

    Don't I know it but I've given up that battle expect for specifying Mac OS X in my comment even though Apple has also given up the Mac qualifier in the name as of Mountain Lion.

    IIRC the way we got to iOS is like this. Apple took Mac OS X, stripped it out everything it didn't need which means it's Darwin OS plus a great many frameworks and other aspects both need, plus a 32-bit ARM compatible kernel. From there they built a new UI framework called CocoaTouch from the ground up.

    To me, that's the less confusing part. When the iPhone was first announced there was no official name for the OS but the Apple community quickly adopted the 'i' branding to call it iOS. I seem to recall the first updates were referred to as firmware updates, which is laughable considering that they were hundreds of megabytes. I think it was at WWDC in 2008 that we saw the banners that read OS X iPhone and OS X Leopard but that didn't last long as it soon became iPhone OS. It wasn't until after the iPad was announced, launched and had been a success that they changed iPhone OS to iOS.

    I'm torn by using OS/X because it's not following the OS/2 designation but it does allow a subtle change in how one might see the OS even though there might only be two people in the world right now that would read OS X and OS/X and think of two very different things. I wonder if a Taxonomy of Operating Systems could be created?

    Ignoring code as a preliminary requirement so that C, C++, and Objective-C are equivalent to proteins, molecules and enzymes. The building blocks of "life".

    Example:
    Kingdom: POSIX
    Phylum: XNU
    Class: Mach
    Order: BSD
    Family: Darwin
    Genus: CocoaTouch
    Species: iOS

    Too much of a geeky, science crossover? :D

    edit: Sorry, Carl Linnaeus, I think this looks better with the fake Latinizing of the names.

    I'll notify Next of Kin!

    Just be clear, you are aware the Surface is the next Kin, right?

    What is the killer app or reason for existence for Surface RT? For the Surface Pro?

    That's simple. Apple's iPad s killing their WinPC licensing.

    I meant from a buyer's perspective -- not from MS's perspective.


    Ha... Sol Linnaeus...

    Edit: Or is that Sol/X? Sol X?


    My best friend in HS Mom's name was Linnae... A direct descendent... She went by the name of Peg.
  • Reply 49 of 129
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    I meant from a buyer's perspective -- not from MS's perspective.

    I should have put a smiley face at the end to denote my attempt at humor.

    Ha... Sol Linnaeus...

    My best friend in HS Mom's name was Linnae... A direct descendent... She went by the name of Peg.

    I'm a huge fan of anthropology*. It's the one subject I read more of than technology. I'm a huge fan of Linnaeus's efforts in designing a modern method to cataloging every living thing on earth in a standard way and yet that jerk Melvil Dewey** is a known name and Linnaeus's isn't. There were people long before Linneaus who were on the right track but without the growing idea and then later adoption of Darwin's On the Origin of Species the classifications were mentally separate entities with no comparative starting point. There are some funny ones. Well, ones I think are funny. The giraffe, for example, has the species of camelopardalis as its appearance rsembled that of both a camel and a leopard and I've read that was believed then the most likely way in which animal had evolved.



    * Linguistics is a branch of anthropology.
    ** I have nothing against Dewey or his decimal system. Just being flippant for the sake of it.
  • Reply 50 of 129
    solipsismx wrote: »
    I meant from a buyer's perspective -- not from MS's perspective.

    I should have put a smiley face at the end to denote my attempt at humor.

    Ha... Sol Linnaeus...

    My best friend in HS Mom's name was Linnae... A direct descendent... She went by the name of Peg.

    I'm a huge fan of anthropology*. It's the one subject I read more of than technology. I'm a huge fan of Linnaeus's efforts in designing a modern method to cataloging every living thing on earth in a standard way and yet that jerk Melvil Dewey** is a known name and Linnaeus's isn't. There were people long before Linneaus who were on the right track but without the growing idea and then later adoption of Darwin's On the Origin of Species the classifications were mentally separate entities with no comparative starting point. There are some funny ones. Well, ones I think are funny. The giraffe, for example, has the species of camelopardalis as its appearance rsembled that of both a camel and a leopard and I've read that was believed then the most likely way in which animal had evolved.



    * Linguistics is a branch of anthropology.
    ** I have nothing against Dewey or his decimal system. Just being flippant for the sake of it.

    Re: your new sig... I got rid of the COWS... But I refuse to give up my LAMB...
  • Reply 51 of 129
    misamisa Posts: 827member
    alfiejr wrote: »
    many predicted the Surface RT would be DOA - and they were right. of course MS will never disclose the actual sales numbers. so few in the fawning media are going to call the RT the outright huge flop that it is.

    and rather than give up, MS will come out with a V.2 RT model later this year. it will fix whatever issues can be fixed. but it won't matter. too late. maybe it will be tightly integrated with the upcoming new XBox too - that would be its best chance. but that is still a niche market.

    the world just doesn't need a third media tablet platform, especially a second "walled" one like Apple's. the OEM's like Samsung and the web companies like Amazon don't want MS to control their tablets' OS. instead they want to do that themsevles. so more and more they skin or even fork Android with their own proprietary setups.

    so MS may keep pusing out these ARM tablets for a few more years to try to hold some niche position in the media tablet game. but it really has no where to go. you could call it an MS "hobby." but it's just the Zune story all over again.

    Unfortunately, I actually I had some hope that the Microsoft tablet would be more successful. A tablet monoculture of iPad apps is not a good thing. Android is an utter failure as anything other than a "disposable" device, so developers don't want to target it.

    The fact that pretty much nobody wanted the Windows UI to change after Windows 98/2000, and microsoft ignored it (you can turn off the themeing system in Win7 and see the Win2K UI) points back to how much inertia needs to be overcome by the existing windows user base in order to get something changed... or maybe the occams razor answer of "Nobody who is used to Windows wants the OS to change"

    The last significant UI change was between Windows 3.1 and 95, back in 1994. So 18 years of this and Microsoft wants to make everyone learn something new. If Win8's Metro UI is just yet another layer over this UI, then people will just turn it off instead.

    Remember, that Microsoft eventually hid DOS in WindowsME to ween people off of using it. We still need to see people weened off of 32-bit Windows apps, and so far the inertia has been largely in the wrong direction (with most software developers not even bothering to write 64bit apps or games.) We're not going to see any substantial innovation on Windows without Microsoft forcing people to. Hence Metro.

    On the Apple side, it just made more sense to make a clean-break from Mac OS Classic to OS X, and from PPC to x86. Yes the backwards compatibility was there for about 3 versions, but after that, it was removed. OS X's next clean break is with 64-bit (boot)-only with 10.8. So I'd almost expect 32-bit x86 to be nixed entirely by 10.10
  • Reply 52 of 129

    great, the idea of another mickey mouse OS is mind bending - now if only Android and iOS would vanish or just stay home.


     


    we just tested our first batch of Dell Latitude 10 at work and they what a tablet should be - non of this watered down mobile trash. If I had one more marketing kid come into my office complaining that their crap iPad made presentation was rejected I was going to loose my hair from aggravation.


     


    If your trash toy app can not meet our implementation manual requirements you can not use it... Unless you are doing print material for some idiotic bar at Williamsburg a PDF is not a print ready file... what on earth do they teach at school these days?


     


    windows 8 pro (until Apple makes an OSX tablet) or go play with the other untalented kids.
  • Reply 53 of 129
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    Who cares about Windows RT. OEM's will make cheap low powered android tablets and convertible Windows 8 laptops. And the iPad/MacBook Air will still be more popular than either of those options. :D

    Of course I noticed the usual suspects like c|net and ZDNET are having a love affair with the Surface Pro right now, In fact the c|net review said it was everything they want. Really? I have a hard time believing the device is absolutely flawless.
  • Reply 54 of 129
    misa wrote: »
    alfiejr wrote: »
    many predicted the Surface RT would be DOA - and they were right. of course MS will never disclose the actual sales numbers. so few in the fawning media are going to call the RT the outright huge flop that it is.

    and rather than give up, MS will come out with a V.2 RT model later this year. it will fix whatever issues can be fixed. but it won't matter. too late. maybe it will be tightly integrated with the upcoming new XBox too - that would be its best chance. but that is still a niche market.

    the world just doesn't need a third media tablet platform, especially a second "walled" one like Apple's. the OEM's like Samsung and the web companies like Amazon don't want MS to control their tablets' OS. instead they want to do that themsevles. so more and more they skin or even fork Android with their own proprietary setups.

    so MS may keep pusing out these ARM tablets for a few more years to try to hold some niche position in the media tablet game. but it really has no where to go. you could call it an MS "hobby." but it's just the Zune story all over again.

    Unfortunately, I actually I had some hope that the Microsoft tablet would be more successful. A tablet monoculture of iPad apps is not a good thing. Android is an utter failure as anything other than a "disposable" device, so developers don't want to target it.

    The fact that pretty much nobody wanted the Windows UI to change after Windows 98/2000, and microsoft ignored it (you can turn off the themeing system in Win7 and see the Win2K UI) points back to how much inertia needs to be overcome by the existing windows user base in order to get something changed... or maybe the occams razor answer of "Nobody who is used to Windows wants the OS to change"

    The last significant UI change was between Windows 3.1 and 95, back in 1994. So 18 years of this and Microsoft wants to make everyone learn something new. If Win8's Metro UI is just yet another layer over this UI, then people will just turn it off instead.

    Remember, that Microsoft eventually hid DOS in WindowsME to ween people off of using it. We still need to see people weened off of 32-bit Windows apps, and so far the inertia has been largely in the wrong direction (with most software developers not even bothering to write 64bit apps or games.) We're not going to see any substantial innovation on Windows without Microsoft forcing people to. Hence Metro.

    On the Apple side, it just made more sense to make a clean-break from Mac OS Classic to OS X, and from PPC to x86. Yes the backwards compatibility was there for about 3 versions, but after that, it was removed. OS X's next clean break is with 64-bit (boot)-only with 10.8. So I'd almost expect 32-bit x86 to be nixed entirely by 10.10

    I think that MS is doomed by the inertia of its own successes -- Windows and Office... They do not have the will or ability to change directions.

    They will continue to serve the customers in the current PC market -- as that market dwindles... The Surface/WinPhone solutions will not stem the tide -- rather they will accellerate the process -- if they have any effect at all.

    The primary growth and breakthroughs will come from the appliance computers like the iPad and iPhone (tablet and smartphone) -- which will bring computer solutions to the masses.

    It matters not if millions still [think they] need WinTel Office and legacy apps -- when billions will be using appliance computer apps.

    Within 5 years, every child in school will have an appliance computer as their primary or only computer.

    The die is cast... "Windows Everywhere" and the supporting devices just don't matter!
  • Reply 55 of 129
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    agramonte wrote: »
    great, the idea of another mickey mouse OS is mind bending - now if only Android and iOS would vanish or just stay home.
     
    we just tested our first batch of Dell Latitude 10 at work and they what a tablet should be - non of this watered down mobile trash. If I had one more marketing kid come into my office complaining that their crap iPad made presentation was rejected I was going to loose my hair from aggravation.
     
    If your trash toy app can not meet our implementation manual requirements you can not use it... Unless you are doing print material for some idiotic bar at Williamsburg a PDF is not a print ready file... what on earth do they teach at school these days?
     
    windows 8 pro (until Apple makes an OSX tablet) or go play with the other untalented kids.

    That reads like you think iOS as an OS is incapable of having software can create and show good presentations. Care to elaborate or explain?

    I think that MS is doomed by the inertia of its own successes -- Windows and Office... They do not have the will or ability to change directions.

    I agree with you on principle but disagree with you on the specifics.

    I think MS is doomed by their own myopicy*, apathy, fear and hubris. I think this is a result of their early and amazing success with Windows but I don't think that such success means they will fail later on. They could careless and stupid; now they are paying that price in a very, very long and hard way. Sometimes I think it might be better to have been Palm because the fall was so short. This fall is going to be long and excruciating.



    * I made an adjective word into a noun word.
  • Reply 56 of 129
    kr00kr00 Posts: 99member
    Without MS office, Microsoft would have hit the junk heap when vista was excreted. With so many cheaper alternatives for WP, MS is treading on very thin ice. If Google can get their Chrome OS out and to the masses, Microsoft will inevadably go the way of the Dodo. It's only people's reliance on windows that stop this from happening. As soon as they realise they don't need it, they are finished. Their fanboys will deny this until its dying day.
  • Reply 57 of 129
    mr. memr. me Posts: 3,221member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Paul Connell View Post






    I both agree and disagree.  I don't think the traditional Windows UI necessarily dooms a tablet to failure, much to the contrary, I think if you're vastly exceeding the cost of a full-on notebook, the full capabilities of Windows (the full desktop and the ability to run all you're x86 applications) is very important.  I know iPads sell like hotcakes, but I, and a lot of others, simply aren't willing to spend upwards of $800 for a glorified smartphone.  Which is why, despite some of their decisions, I think Microsoft is on the right track with Windows 8 - provide a tablet friendly UI for basic and on-the-go tasks, and the full desktop for when you need to be productive with the "real" applications you need to use.  I know there's some overlap between "apps" and traditional "applications", but there's no denying that when real work needs to be done, there's no replacement for full desktop applications.



    Clearly what's dooming Windows RT is that it's essentially nearly all the cost of a full Windows Pro system with none of the benefits - unlike iOS or Android tablets, the available app selection is extremely limited and limiting.  So you don't have access to your traditional applications, you don't have access to much in the way of apps, and the whole Metro UI is essentially barely out of beta status. 



    On the other hand, give it a generation or two, and I think Windows RT will be gone and Windows Pro will make a very compelling OS for truly dual-purpose tablets - a touch friendly UI when it's used as a tablet, drop it into a dock and you have a full desktop OS for when you need those capabilities. 



     


    You may have been born yesterday, but many of us were not. Windows RT is not Microsoft's first rodeo. Bill Gates has a fetish for tablets. When he ran Microsoft, he did his damnedest to make a go of tablets. Gates released tablet computers based on Windows extant. This was years before Apple's iPad showed Microsoft how to do the job correctly. With nothing to compete against them, tablets based on traditional Windows were dismal failures. Given a choice between a Windows tablet computer and nothing, buyers chose nothing. Nothing is better than Windows tablets—literally.

  • Reply 58 of 129
    blackbookblackbook Posts: 1,361member
    mr. me wrote: »
    You may have been born yesterday, but many of us were not. Windows RT is not Microsoft's first rodeo. Bill Gates has a fetish for tablets. When he ran Microsoft, he did his damnedest to make a go of tablets. Gates released tablet computers based on Windows extant. This was years before Apple's iPad showed Microsoft how to do the job correctly. With nothing to compete against them, tablets based on traditional Windows were dismal failures. Given a choice between a Windows tablet computer and nothing, buyers chose nothing. Nothing is better than Windows tablets—literally.

    Yup the convertible tablets advertised today aren't much different from the convertible laptops of 10 years ago.

    A friend of mine had a convertible laptop running XP that was so cool at the time. I remember wondering why Apple didn't have one.
  • Reply 59 of 129
    solipsismx wrote: »
    agramonte wrote: »
    great, the idea of another mickey mouse OS is mind bending - now if only Android and iOS would vanish or just stay home.
     
    we just tested our first batch of Dell Latitude 10 at work and they what a tablet should be - non of this watered down mobile trash. If I had one more marketing kid come into my office complaining that their crap iPad made presentation was rejected I was going to loose my hair from aggravation.
     
    If your trash toy app can not meet our implementation manual requirements you can not use it... Unless you are doing print material for some idiotic bar at Williamsburg a PDF is not a print ready file... what on earth do they teach at school these days?
     
    windows 8 pro (until Apple makes an OSX tablet) or go play with the other untalented kids.

    That reads like you think iOS as an OS is incapable of having software can create and show good presentations. Care to elaborate or explain?

    I think that MS is doomed by the inertia of its own successes -- Windows and Office... They do not have the will or ability to change directions.

    I agree with you on principle but disagree with you on the specifics.

    steveI think MS is doomed by their own myopicy*, apathy, fear and hubris. I think this is a result of their early and amazing success with Windows but I don't think that such success means they will fail later on. They could careless and stupid; now they are paying that price in a very, very long and hard way. Sometimes I think it might be better to have been Palm because the fall was so short. This fall is going to be long and excruciating.



    * I made an adjective word into a noun word.

    Here's something that you may not know...

    The "management" that brought success to Microsoft was not Bill Gates, Paul Allen or Steve Ballmer... Rather, Jon Shirley!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Shirley


    Oddly, the history of Jon Shirley's tenure as COO of MS has largely been rewritten -- elided as if he were a non-entity.

    Jon was COO of MS from 1983-1990.. 7 years,,,,. The formative years where MS gained market domination.

    Like Mike Markkula at Apple,, Jon Shirley brought the skill and perspective of a "businessman" to MS.

    Gates was "wet behind the ears"... or "wet under the arms"... while Shirley brought legitimacy trust/respect and stability To MS.

    The Shirley years were the apex... It has been downhill ever since.

    Gates and Ballmer are posers.
  • Reply 60 of 129
    misa wrote: »
    Unfortunately, I actually I had some hope that the Microsoft tablet would be more successful. A tablet monoculture of iPad apps is not a good thing. Android is an utter failure as anything other than a "disposable" device, so developers don't want to target it.

    Rewriting history, I see. Remember that, before 2010, Microsoft virtually had the tablet market all to themselves. It was a "tablet monoculture" of Windows for Pen Computing. And these tablets ran all kinds of desktop apps, including the vaunted and flaunted Microsoft Office (which I consider overrated, but that's another thread). And yet I don't see you complaining about Microsoft's tablet "monoculture." And, no, it wasn't a good thing: as far as usability goes, they promised more than they could deliver. Being Pentium based and power hungry didn't help, but the Pen Computing UI and device weight were atrocious and always made them feel like compromised laptops, rather than fulfill some vision of usable & ubiquitous portable computing.

    On the other hand, Apple's supposed "tablet monoculture" which you dismiss as somehow "not a good thing" was created by we the consumers who overwhelmingly voted for the success of this platform with our non-subsidized dollars. Out of all the choices available: iPad, Android, and Windows tablets, most consumers picked iPad, creating said "monoculture." It's a reflection of free market success, not the only choice available. That's a good thing.
Sign In or Register to comment.