I've known since I first picked a mini at the Apple Store that my next device would be an LTE 64GB once it has Retina.
Add phone capabilities, and it would replace my iPhone as well.
Agree 100%.
This is why I find the idea of reduced bezels on the larger iPad unlikely. The larger iPad is for casual users, dilettantes, seniors, those who still desperately need a keyboard, etc. Everyone I've met that really "gets" this new mobile paradigm and just wants to get things done, gravitates to the iPad mini and to a unified device stance (if only Apple would make it possible). The rest are still marvelling at Angry Birds on the iPhone and trying to use the iPad as if it were a laptop.
If they reduce the bezel on the larger iPad, all of a sudden large groups of older and less technical people will be dropped by the wayside. The whole point of starting out with the larger iPad was to rope these people in to the mobile revolution. To provide an idiot proof transitional device that even people who didn't like computers previously could use and to provide a bridge between the laptop and the new mobile devices. It's a good strategy and one I don't see them abandoning.
The iPad mini is more of a "pro" device.
If they put the phone app on the mini, I too would drop the iPhone like yesterday's news.
Do you actually believe this stuff, or are you just trying to be provocative? It's wrong, 270 degrees wrong.
Yeah, I do actually.
I find this comment disturbing in that I see you as one of the smarter people on here that I agree with about 90% of the time so your comment certainly gives me pause.
Unless your joking and I missed it (270 degrees would mean I'm half-way back towards being right???)
Time will tell I suppose.
My experience with the mini is that it does everything that the larger iPad does without anycompromises, (other than the single fact that it doesn't really need or work well with keyboard accessories.) But since the whole point of iOS devices is their lack of a need for a keyboard, I conclude that this is a "purer" iOS experience and that those that still need a keyboard case or a device that supports a keyboard, are actually "not doing it right." They are transitional users.
I don't see any of the kids going out and buying those thick leather keyboard cases, just adults and seniors.
And if it's truly necessary to have one, then the whole iOS touch-computer thing is kind of a failure or a boondoggle isn't it?
I find this comment disturbing in that I see you as one of the smarter people on here that I agree with about 90% of the time so your comment certainly gives me pause.
Unless your joking and I missed it (270 degrees would mean I'm half-way back towards being right???)
Time will tell I suppose.
My experience with the mini is that it does everything that the larger iPad does without anycompromises, (other than the single fact that it doesn't really need or work well with keyboard accessories.) But since the whole point of iOS devices is their lack of a need for a keyboard, I conclude that this is a "purer" iOS experience and that those that still need a keyboard case or a device that supports a keyboard, are actually "not doing it right." They are transitional users.
I don't see any of the kids going out and buying those thick leather keyboard cases, just adults and seniors.
And if it's truly necessary to have one, then the whole iOS touch-computer thing is kind of a failure or a boondoggle isn't it?
270° was to indicate that it was wrong in a way that wasn't even backwards, just completely off course. As for keyboards, I see plenty of people buying them for minis, more than I've seen for 9.7" iPads.
Why does everybody always assume Apple releasing a less expensive version of something = a race to the bottom? Apple has always offered a budget item in every product line they sell. And none of it constitutes a race to the bottom.
They already have less expensive versions: iPad mini, iPad 2, iPhone 4 and iPhone 4S. They may replace the "old models" with dedicated budget models that sell for similar prices, but going any more budget than what they have right now *is* racing to the bottom.
The only way they'll get cheaper is by designing for price instead of quality, and slashing their profit margins. The first hurts their brand, the second could well reduce their total profits. Sure they'll sell more, but will that compensate for the cannabilization of the more expensive models? We're already seeing that with the iPad mini, imagine what a $200 low end model would do. How many extra low margin $200 iPads would they have to sell to get the profit of a $400 high margin model? Four? Eight? Will they really sell that many more?
OMG, yet another isolated fragment of info about part supplies management - at one single factory no less - being spun by the hit-whoring tech web echo chamber into a mega-index of Apple's "troubles."
the fools are running wild these days.
the only thing Apple is doing "wrong" is waiting three weeks to report its actual sales every quarter. that gives the web idiots three weeks to run off at the mouth. and of course they are never held to account after their BS is revealed as smelly poop. they'll do it all over again next quarter.
I know my daughter, until recently, had thought the iPhone and iPad were expensive toys that I waste money on, and mere status symbols for the upper income crowd. Fresh out of college and moving into the work world, she is finally understanding that her MBP, iPad-mini, and iPhone are not just for fun, but for the business of making a living, for continuing one's education through ebooks and also, for maintaining contacts and support among her friends and colleagues. And, for entertainment, after a hard day's work.
You can do that with other alternative products that are generally cheaper and varied in selection. That added savings could help her accomplish other tasks and goals. Her initial judgement about "status symbol" was spot on. People living to impress others makes me laugh all the time.
You can do that with other alternative products that are generally cheaper and varied in selection. That added savings could help her accomplish other tasks and goals. Her initial judgement about "status symbol" was spot on. People living to impress others makes me laugh all the time.
You know what makes me laugh? Generally, that is. (I mean, you always do, but that's not what I'm talking about.) People deliberately not buying the best tools for a job just to impress others with how "above it" they are.
I hope Apple's smarter than to try and race everyone to the bottom. Their market share is shrinking, but their share of the industry's *profits* is still huge. That's where Apple excels. As long as they hold on to the high end, they're fine with a 20-30% market share by device count. The days of Apple having >50% market share are gone, it was only like that because there was no one who could compete. Now there are other companies flooding the market with low-end devices, but low end = low profit, even if you sell a lot of them. Apple just needs to keep innovating to hold on to the high end, keeping their competitors on their heels.
I know a lot of people would disagree, but I stand by my prediction that it's getting close to time for a larger iPad. More and more consumers are buying tablets instead of laptops/desktops. Most consumers don't actually *need* a laptop or desktop, but the ~10" screen size of iOS/Android tablets is very limiting. Windows 8 is a frankenstein monster, but it also has no competition in the larger touch screen device market.
So my prediction: either this year or next, Apple will release their take on the larger touch screen device. Windows 8 has proven that taking a desktop OS and making it more like a tablet is a bad idea. Apple will go about it the other way - make a larger iOS device with additional capability bringing it closer to a desktop OS (closer to, not on par with). It will be enough to fully replace a laptop for most consumers, and the OS X line will persist for pros and the remainder of consumers.
I don't agree with your prediction of a larger touch screen. But, what is inevitably in the cards is increased power and functionality of the iPhone, but especially the iPad devices. Apple is moving, and has to move, more functionality to these devices because of the need for these devices to not be tethered to a PC/MBP. The basic app that Apple provides are short on functionality. I'm thinking Calendar and Email especially.
The iOS calendar app is not capable of creating custom repeatable groups, such as "every third Sunday of the month"; it is also limited to entering two alerts for a calendar event. Both functions are available under OSX devices, so I often need to edit calendar events on my MBP to create these more complex repeating events and alerts.
Email under iOS is severely limited because it does not support rules. I used rules extensively in the Email on my MBP; in fact, I always need to have my MBP running with Email active so it can execute the rules so things are set appropriately when I read the emails on my iOS devices (of course this requires that my email accounts support the IMAP protocol).
These are just specifics, but I see the need for tablets attain reasonably full computer functionality in a touch-screen form factor, with iOS adding more OSX functionality, and the apps following along.
270° was to indicate that it was wrong in a way that wasn't even backwards, just completely off course. As for keyboards, I see plenty of people buying them for minis, more than I've seen for 9.7" iPads.
Oh well. Different experiences and different points of view I guess. YMMV.
IMO buying a keyboard case for a mini is tres stupide.
The original iPad keyboard case is already so small due to the length of the iPad that you end up with something like a nasty little netbook once you've put it all together. The iPad mini is even smaller making any kind of touch typing on those keyboard cases truly impossible. If a person truly values that keyboard over the built in soft keyboard, then they are just valuing plastic keys over virtual ones. I have the same lack of intellectual respect for those folks as I do for those blackberry users that think their little plastic keyboards are king.
Neither is any better, bigger, or easier to use than the other. These people are just expressing a bias for physical keys over virtual keys. A bias based on their position in the history of computing IMO (thus my "seniors" and "transitional users" language). I don't see as there is any real evidence that physical keys are better than virtual ones, it's just a preference, and one that on the balance of evidence, I think will fade. Physical keyboards on iOS devices will only survive if they have some concrete advantage over virtual ones and I haven't seen anyone elucidate those advantages yet.
IMO if you really want to do extremely fast touch typing, then you should use a 'proper' keyboard on a proper laptop or desktop. Apple's wireless keyboard is an excellent choice there and the perfect size. If on the other hand you want a truly mobile device, then you should give up on a tiny bit of speed and switch to a typing style more suited for the device. Add to this the fact that most folks (even die-hard techies and many "writers") don't actually touch type at all and type less than 40 wpm and the "need" for that proper keyboard really disappears altogether.
I do 70-80 wpm touch typing on a "proper" keyboard, but I also do about 30-40 wpm "thumb typing" on an iOS device in portrait orientation. What iOS has taught me is that this is more than sufficient for almost every use case and I can leave the clumsy keyboard at home. When you consider that most users are even less talented with a keyboard and don't do much more than hunt and peck and rarely have to type more than a short email or text ...
Anyway, shutting up now. I realise that no one agrees with me and that somehow without intending to, I've wound some folks up again.
If things really don't pick up for Apple this year, I'm afraid that in a few more there won't be an Apple. Google and Samsung more than any others have really screwed it over, in that their products are nearly as good (in some cases better) just as 'cool', more affordable and far more widely used nowadays. Apple is starting to feel like a dinosaur by comparison, and I really don't want to be saying that, or that it was just Steve's baby and RIP Apple! I've been a fan of the company since 1983 when I first started to learn Basic on an Apple II - hence my user name. 30 years trumpeting the cause! Ha ha.
Going any more budget than what they have right now *is* racing to the bottom.
How is it racing to the bottom if they aren't trying to UNDERCUT the competition?
As for reducing total profits, I don't see it. There will be canibalization, which Tim Cook says he's not afraid of, which I take to mean volume increases will offset. But moreover, everybody thinks this is about hardware. It's not. Apple is not competing against Google, Amazon and Microsoft over hardware. It's about content -- iTunes, iBooks and the App Store. Lets say they lose profit on overall hardware but gain a larger share of customers than they otherwise would have had, and those customers buy a larger share of books, music, games and apps than they otherwise would have sold. I trust Apple to make the correct calculations to ensure they keep their overall profit margins in check.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB
I've known since I first picked a mini at the Apple Store that my next device would be an LTE 64GB once it has Retina.
Add phone capabilities, and it would replace my iPhone as well.
Agree 100%.
This is why I find the idea of reduced bezels on the larger iPad unlikely. The larger iPad is for casual users, dilettantes, seniors, those who still desperately need a keyboard, etc. Everyone I've met that really "gets" this new mobile paradigm and just wants to get things done, gravitates to the iPad mini and to a unified device stance (if only Apple would make it possible). The rest are still marvelling at Angry Birds on the iPhone and trying to use the iPad as if it were a laptop.
If they reduce the bezel on the larger iPad, all of a sudden large groups of older and less technical people will be dropped by the wayside. The whole point of starting out with the larger iPad was to rope these people in to the mobile revolution. To provide an idiot proof transitional device that even people who didn't like computers previously could use and to provide a bridge between the laptop and the new mobile devices. It's a good strategy and one I don't see them abandoning.
The iPad mini is more of a "pro" device.
If they put the phone app on the mini, I too would drop the iPhone like yesterday's news.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
...
FWIW, here's the first prototype of the IGZO tablet:
Notice the new rhomboid form factor, rounded corners and bezel-less display!
Non-back-lit Retina display of 333 PPI (Pokes Per Inch).
This baby is a svelte 1 1/8" thick and weighs-in at a mere 12 lbs.
It seems a bit buggy. Isn't that an addition error in the third column, second cell?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
... The larger iPad is for casual users, dilettantes, seniors, those who still desperately need a keyboard, etc. ...
The iPad mini is more of a "pro" device. ...
Do you actually believe this stuff, or are you just trying to be provocative? It's wrong, 270 degrees wrong.
They are a very vocal, self-important subculture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
Do you actually believe this stuff, or are you just trying to be provocative? It's wrong, 270 degrees wrong.
Yeah, I do actually.
I find this comment disturbing in that I see you as one of the smarter people on here that I agree with about 90% of the time so your comment certainly gives me pause.
Unless your joking and I missed it (270 degrees would mean I'm half-way back towards being right???)
Time will tell I suppose.
My experience with the mini is that it does everything that the larger iPad does without any compromises, (other than the single fact that it doesn't really need or work well with keyboard accessories.) But since the whole point of iOS devices is their lack of a need for a keyboard, I conclude that this is a "purer" iOS experience and that those that still need a keyboard case or a device that supports a keyboard, are actually "not doing it right." They are transitional users.
I don't see any of the kids going out and buying those thick leather keyboard cases, just adults and seniors.
And if it's truly necessary to have one, then the whole iOS touch-computer thing is kind of a failure or a boondoggle isn't it?
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
My experience with the mini is that it does everything that the larger iPad does without any compromises…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
This man/woman has developed a leak?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
Yeah, I do actually.
I find this comment disturbing in that I see you as one of the smarter people on here that I agree with about 90% of the time so your comment certainly gives me pause.
Unless your joking and I missed it (270 degrees would mean I'm half-way back towards being right???)
Time will tell I suppose.
My experience with the mini is that it does everything that the larger iPad does without any compromises, (other than the single fact that it doesn't really need or work well with keyboard accessories.) But since the whole point of iOS devices is their lack of a need for a keyboard, I conclude that this is a "purer" iOS experience and that those that still need a keyboard case or a device that supports a keyboard, are actually "not doing it right." They are transitional users.
I don't see any of the kids going out and buying those thick leather keyboard cases, just adults and seniors.
And if it's truly necessary to have one, then the whole iOS touch-computer thing is kind of a failure or a boondoggle isn't it?
270° was to indicate that it was wrong in a way that wasn't even backwards, just completely off course. As for keyboards, I see plenty of people buying them for minis, more than I've seen for 9.7" iPads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128
Why does everybody always assume Apple releasing a less expensive version of something = a race to the bottom? Apple has always offered a budget item in every product line they sell. And none of it constitutes a race to the bottom.
They already have less expensive versions: iPad mini, iPad 2, iPhone 4 and iPhone 4S. They may replace the "old models" with dedicated budget models that sell for similar prices, but going any more budget than what they have right now *is* racing to the bottom.
The only way they'll get cheaper is by designing for price instead of quality, and slashing their profit margins. The first hurts their brand, the second could well reduce their total profits. Sure they'll sell more, but will that compensate for the cannabilization of the more expensive models? We're already seeing that with the iPad mini, imagine what a $200 low end model would do. How many extra low margin $200 iPads would they have to sell to get the profit of a $400 high margin model? Four? Eight? Will they really sell that many more?
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
This man/woman has developed a leak?
I really need to change that to "*snort*"…
OMG, yet another isolated fragment of info about part supplies management - at one single factory no less - being spun by the hit-whoring tech web echo chamber into a mega-index of Apple's "troubles."
the fools are running wild these days.
the only thing Apple is doing "wrong" is waiting three weeks to report its actual sales every quarter. that gives the web idiots three weeks to run off at the mouth. and of course they are never held to account after their BS is revealed as smelly poop. they'll do it all over again next quarter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman
I know my daughter, until recently, had thought the iPhone and iPad were expensive toys that I waste money on, and mere status symbols for the upper income crowd. Fresh out of college and moving into the work world, she is finally understanding that her MBP, iPad-mini, and iPhone are not just for fun, but for the business of making a living, for continuing one's education through ebooks and also, for maintaining contacts and support among her friends and colleagues. And, for entertainment, after a hard day's work.
You can do that with other alternative products that are generally cheaper and varied in selection. That added savings could help her accomplish other tasks and goals. Her initial judgement about "status symbol" was spot on. People living to impress others makes me laugh all the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi
You can do that with other alternative products that are generally cheaper and varied in selection. That added savings could help her accomplish other tasks and goals. Her initial judgement about "status symbol" was spot on. People living to impress others makes me laugh all the time.
You know what makes me laugh? Generally, that is. (I mean, you always do, but that's not what I'm talking about.) People deliberately not buying the best tools for a job just to impress others with how "above it" they are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluefish86
I hope Apple's smarter than to try and race everyone to the bottom. Their market share is shrinking, but their share of the industry's *profits* is still huge. That's where Apple excels. As long as they hold on to the high end, they're fine with a 20-30% market share by device count. The days of Apple having >50% market share are gone, it was only like that because there was no one who could compete. Now there are other companies flooding the market with low-end devices, but low end = low profit, even if you sell a lot of them. Apple just needs to keep innovating to hold on to the high end, keeping their competitors on their heels.
I know a lot of people would disagree, but I stand by my prediction that it's getting close to time for a larger iPad. More and more consumers are buying tablets instead of laptops/desktops. Most consumers don't actually *need* a laptop or desktop, but the ~10" screen size of iOS/Android tablets is very limiting. Windows 8 is a frankenstein monster, but it also has no competition in the larger touch screen device market.
So my prediction: either this year or next, Apple will release their take on the larger touch screen device. Windows 8 has proven that taking a desktop OS and making it more like a tablet is a bad idea. Apple will go about it the other way - make a larger iOS device with additional capability bringing it closer to a desktop OS (closer to, not on par with). It will be enough to fully replace a laptop for most consumers, and the OS X line will persist for pros and the remainder of consumers.
I don't agree with your prediction of a larger touch screen. But, what is inevitably in the cards is increased power and functionality of the iPhone, but especially the iPad devices. Apple is moving, and has to move, more functionality to these devices because of the need for these devices to not be tethered to a PC/MBP. The basic app that Apple provides are short on functionality. I'm thinking Calendar and Email especially.
The iOS calendar app is not capable of creating custom repeatable groups, such as "every third Sunday of the month"; it is also limited to entering two alerts for a calendar event. Both functions are available under OSX devices, so I often need to edit calendar events on my MBP to create these more complex repeating events and alerts.
Email under iOS is severely limited because it does not support rules. I used rules extensively in the Email on my MBP; in fact, I always need to have my MBP running with Email active so it can execute the rules so things are set appropriately when I read the emails on my iOS devices (of course this requires that my email accounts support the IMAP protocol).
These are just specifics, but I see the need for tablets attain reasonably full computer functionality in a touch-screen form factor, with iOS adding more OSX functionality, and the apps following along.
SHARP was touting it's IGZO screens at CES.
APPLE has invested money in what company?
SHARP.
The next screen for the iPad? Any guesses?
Yeah, me too.
Huge bump in battery life would be welcomed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilution
How ironic that the mini size is such a big hit.
Sorry but that does class as irony.
Lesson passed.
Dude... oh never mind...
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
270° was to indicate that it was wrong in a way that wasn't even backwards, just completely off course. As for keyboards, I see plenty of people buying them for minis, more than I've seen for 9.7" iPads.
Oh well. Different experiences and different points of view I guess. YMMV.
IMO buying a keyboard case for a mini is tres stupide.
The original iPad keyboard case is already so small due to the length of the iPad that you end up with something like a nasty little netbook once you've put it all together. The iPad mini is even smaller making any kind of touch typing on those keyboard cases truly impossible. If a person truly values that keyboard over the built in soft keyboard, then they are just valuing plastic keys over virtual ones. I have the same lack of intellectual respect for those folks as I do for those blackberry users that think their little plastic keyboards are king.
Neither is any better, bigger, or easier to use than the other. These people are just expressing a bias for physical keys over virtual keys. A bias based on their position in the history of computing IMO (thus my "seniors" and "transitional users" language). I don't see as there is any real evidence that physical keys are better than virtual ones, it's just a preference, and one that on the balance of evidence, I think will fade. Physical keyboards on iOS devices will only survive if they have some concrete advantage over virtual ones and I haven't seen anyone elucidate those advantages yet.
IMO if you really want to do extremely fast touch typing, then you should use a 'proper' keyboard on a proper laptop or desktop. Apple's wireless keyboard is an excellent choice there and the perfect size. If on the other hand you want a truly mobile device, then you should give up on a tiny bit of speed and switch to a typing style more suited for the device. Add to this the fact that most folks (even die-hard techies and many "writers") don't actually touch type at all and type less than 40 wpm and the "need" for that proper keyboard really disappears altogether.
I do 70-80 wpm touch typing on a "proper" keyboard, but I also do about 30-40 wpm "thumb typing" on an iOS device in portrait orientation. What iOS has taught me is that this is more than sufficient for almost every use case and I can leave the clumsy keyboard at home. When you consider that most users are even less talented with a keyboard and don't do much more than hunt and peck and rarely have to type more than a short email or text ...
Anyway, shutting up now. I realise that no one agrees with me and that somehow without intending to, I've wound some folks up again.
My apologies if I offended your sensibilities.
<quietly walks away from computer>
As for reducing total profits, I don't see it. There will be canibalization, which Tim Cook says he's not afraid of, which I take to mean volume increases will offset. But moreover, everybody thinks this is about hardware. It's not. Apple is not competing against Google, Amazon and Microsoft over hardware. It's about content -- iTunes, iBooks and the App Store. Lets say they lose profit on overall hardware but gain a larger share of customers than they otherwise would have had, and those customers buy a larger share of books, music, games and apps than they otherwise would have sold. I trust Apple to make the correct calculations to ensure they keep their overall profit margins in check.