Tim Cook: Apple's product pipeline is 'chock full' of 'incredible stuff'

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  • Reply 41 of 145
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,860member


    First off; the Mini doesn't sell well at all.   Sales have been negative for some time in the USA.  


     


    Second; the Pro as it currently is will never sell well.   The configuration is simply out of step with time.     It is too expensive in the low end models for what you get and frankly it is just too big.  Apple could give the Mac Pro a weekly rub down with essential oils and it wouldn't sell.  


     


    Third; a future machine really has no point in this discussion, they could address the Pros issues or they could screw it up even more.  We really don't know what Apple is up to with the 2013 Pro.   It could be a winner or another looser like the current machine.  


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post




    But this isn't the case. The Mini sells well, and the Pro would if they cared about it. They're consciously not updating it, which means any appearance of a "lack of caring" is by design. Also by design is their stated promise of an update to it this year.


     


    They don't need a screenless, mid-range desktop for any reason. That actually goes far and away against just about everything they've ever done as well as what their future looks to be.



    They need a rational desktop line up not one that forces buyers to buy MBP to get a midrange like machine.    That means either an XMac or a totally refactored Pro that can serve the mid range needs of a desktop user.   Here is the reality the people that need a GPU supporting desktop Mac can't buy a Mini for their needs, even the 2011 model was a disgrace.   The iMac for many reasons can't be used either.   The Pro can obviously fill the need but the technology of the machine is generally far behind the rest of the world and it is far to expensive.   It is pretty obvious that Apple either needs an XMac or a significantly refactored Pro.  

  • Reply 42 of 145
    winterwinter Posts: 1,238member
    Can you show me sales figures of all Apple machines? Just how bad are mini sales? Bad enough that it could be canceled soon?
  • Reply 43 of 145


    Did I ever mention that in the exact same situation as you, I have the opposite conclusion?


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by macslut View Post


     


    This can't be emphasized enough.  I recently bought a Nexus 7.  Sorry, I need one for development work.  It SUCKS.


  • Reply 44 of 145

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    First off; the Mini doesn't sell well at all.   Sales have been negative for some time in the USA. 



    People are selling their Mini to Apple?

  • Reply 45 of 145

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by lightknight View Post


    Is it even legal to state this?





    Why would it not be legal to state this? What exactly is illegal about not making money for money's sake? Can you show me the law that says it's a crime to not make money for money's sake? Did someone stick an amendment into the constitution that says you shall make money for money's sake?

  • Reply 46 of 145


    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

    It could be a winner or another looser like the current machine.  


     


    Okay, there's nothing "losing" about the current model. It's just old. That's it. Hasn't had an update since 2010. 







    They need a rational desktop line up not one that forces buyers to buy MBP to get a midrange like machine. 




     


    Why are you pretending this is the case? I'm trying to understand.






    That means either an XMac or a totally refactored Pro that can serve the mid range needs of a desktop user.



     


    Or, you know, buy the iMac. Been sitting there since 1998.






    The Pro can obviously fill the need but the technology of the machine is generally far behind the rest of the world and it is far to expensive.



     


    And this is somehow Apple's fault? Blame Intel for ludicrously expensive chips that never go down in price and have a far longer refresh rate than any of their others.






    It is pretty obvious that Apple either needs an XMac or a significantly refactored Pro.



     


    I'd say it's almost assured we're getting the latter. Stay tuned; it's all we can do.





    Originally Posted by White Lotus View Post

    Did someone stick an amendment into the constitution that says you shall make money for money's sake?


     


    GETTIN' P'LITICAL: Some people seem to believe that.

  • Reply 47 of 145
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,860member


    The fact that the Mac Pro hasn't had an update since 2010 has nothing to do with the fact that sales are quickly approaching zero.   It is the idea that this very expensive machine just isn't competive in its low end configurations. 


     


    Nobody is pretending when it comes to the reality that often the best choice in a midrange machine is the purchase of one of Apples laptops.  Honestly if you can't see this drink some coffee and then look at Apple lineup with open eyes.  


     


    No body in their right mind would buy an iMac if they needed any of the Pro like features of the Mac Pro.   IMac is pretty much the anti desktop box.   In a nut shell iMac gets zero consideration from those looking for a desktop machine.     It is an all in one box with all the limitations that implies.  


     


    As to blaming Intel, that is garbage because Apple does have a choice here.   They can build a MacPro  machine at a reasonable cost with alternative hardware.     Nobody is forcing them to use Xeon hardware for a market that just doesn't need it.    By not needing it I'm talking about the majority of Mac Pro users out there.   There is a market for a Xeon based machine but as we have seen it isn't large enough to drive the sales of the Mac Pro.  


     


    As to a refactored Mac Pro I could easily see such a machine looking like the fabled XMac and cost about the same in a base model.    In fact if Apple is to have any success at all with the new Mac Pro they will have to address the pricing structure and the machines size.  I'm seeing the new Mac Pro as a radical departure from the previous design.   Now maybe it won't be an XMac departure but it certainly will be smaller.  


     


     


     


     


    In any event one can't deny that desktop sales are becoming a much smaller percentage of over all Mac sales.   Apple pretty much says so every quarter.   So if you look at the desktop where do most of the sales go to - the iMac of course.   If you accept that then you have to ask why.   I come back to the reality that neither the Pro nor the Mini is worth a damn when it ones to attracting fresh sales.  


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    Okay, there's nothing "losing" about the current model. It's just old. That's it. Hasn't had an update since 2010. 


     


    Why are you pretending this is the case? I'm trying to understand.


     


    Or, you know, buy the iMac. Been sitting there since 1998.


     


    And this is somehow Apple's fault? Blame Intel for ludicrously expensive chips that never go down in price and have a far longer refresh rate than any of their others.


     


    I'd say it's almost assured we're getting the latter. Stay tuned; it's all we can do.


     


    GETTIN' P'LITICAL: Some people seem to believe that.


  • Reply 48 of 145


    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    No body in their right mind would buy an iMac if they needed any of the Pro like features of the Mac Pro.



     


    Right, they'll buy a Mac Pro.






    In a nut shell iMac gets zero consideration from those looking for a desktop machine.



     


    Completely wrong.






    Nobody is forcing them to use Xeon hardware for a market that just doesn't need it.



     


    See, the market that does need it? BUYS IT. The market that doesn't need it? BUYS THE IMAC.






    By not needing it I'm talking about the majority of Mac Pro users out there.



     


    Exactly! Which is why people are buying the iMac.


     


    You've fallen into a crack where you're not a true workstation computer user (and that's the only market the Mac Pro has ever been marketed toward), and you're unwilling to get an iMac for… I dunno. 


     


    Apple doesn't sell you a product right now. When the Mac Pro gets an update this year, we'll see if that changes.

  • Reply 49 of 145
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,798member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    In a nut shell iMac gets zero consideration from those looking for a desktop machine.



     


    Nope. Plenty of people accept the iMac as a compromise. I went from a Pro to an iMac (though it has driven me mad at times.)


     


    If the iMac's hard drive could be replaced by the user, there are plenty of Pro buyers who would switch.

  • Reply 50 of 145


    Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

    Plenty of people accept the iMac as a compromise.


     


    Plenty more accept it as the machine they actually wanted and which serves their needs.

  • Reply 51 of 145
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,798member


    I was referring specifically to pro/prosumer users. His comment referenced the machine's 'limitations' for those users.

  • Reply 52 of 145
    hmmhmm Posts: 3,405member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post


    I was referring specifically to pro/prosumer users. His comment referenced the machine's 'limitations' for those users.





    There are always limitations with generic as opposed to specialized hardware. I suspect these will continue to diminish. There are some significant limitations to the imac displays, yet a lot of people are happy with them. It's usually a matter of once it hits a point of good enough, more people will grab everything from the same source. I'm thinking in terms of the younger generations of professional/prosumer users. That is where you're more likely to see changing trends. If they've been working for a few years, they may have much more interdependent hardware in their overall setup. There are areas where hardware speeds have simply outpaced growth in software demands.

  • Reply 53 of 145
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,798member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by hmm View Post




    There are always limitations with generic as opposed to specialized hardware. I suspect these will continue to diminish. There are some significant limitations to the imac displays, yet a lot of people are happy with them.



     


    Yes. The new 27" iMac actually works quite well for most pros if you're willing to write off the 1TB hard drive within and connect it to a TB based RAID setup.


     


    You have a large screen, upgradable memory slots, good graphics, up-to-date IO options and expandable/swappable hard drive options via TB.


    It's a pity to waste a good 1TB drive like that, but it's better than having to haul your work machine to the Apple Store and leave it for 5 days if the drive fails.


     


    If the Mac Pro update isn't a good value, this is probably the setup I'm going with.

  • Reply 54 of 145
    thttht Posts: 3,240member
    The iMac option or the Mac mini option seems unsavory or not Apple like for my needs.

    I don't need a big GPU or a big CPU or 3 expansion slots, but I do want 4+ TB of storage with backups. I've got nearly a decade of family photos. Started with a 5 MP camera, then 10 MP, and now a T3i at 18 MP + RAW files + 1080p video. My need for storage is exponentially growing.

    If I want any semblance of sanity, I need 2 backups. Using a Mac mini or an iMac means using 2 external storage drives or multi drive enclosure. This represents a gigantic mess of cables, and it'll look ugly.

    Would much rather have everything in one box. So, I'm very much in favor of a xMac or redesign, and cheaper, Mac Pro. My current system is bursting at the seems. Hard to buy the current options. And stepping up to a Mac Pro is hugely expensive, especially now when the design is on its last legs.
  • Reply 55 of 145
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,860member


    I suspect your needs reflect those of many of us!    However do yourself a favor your first level of backup ought to be in a separate box.     You can't realistically call an extra disk inside your PC a backup disk.  


     


    In any event I agree that storage demand does grow rapidly.  This is one of the reasons I want an XMac.   That is easy access to internal storage bays to expand storage to cover media and other files.      The reality is many of us end up needing a storage upgrade before the machine itself needs an upgrade.   Like you I say no to external drives as a primary storage devices.    That is the place for backup devices.   


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by THT View Post



    The iMac option or the Mac mini option seems unsavory or not Apple like for my needs.



    I don't need a big GPU or a big CPU or 3 expansion slots, but I do want 4+ TB of storage with backups. I've got nearly a decade of family photos. Started with a 5 MP camera, then 10 MP, and now a T3i at 18 MP + RAW files + 1080p video. My need for storage is exponentially growing.



    If I want any semblance of sanity, I need 2 backups. Using a Mac mini or an iMac means using 2 external storage drives or multi drive enclosure. This represents a gigantic mess of cables, and it'll look ugly.



    Would much rather have everything in one box. So, I'm very much in favor of a xMac or redesign, and cheaper, Mac Pro. My current system is bursting at the seems. Hard to buy the current options. And stepping up to a Mac Pro is hugely expensive, especially now when the design is on its last legs.

  • Reply 56 of 145
    thttht Posts: 3,240member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    I suspect your needs reflect those of many of us!    However do yourself a favor your first level of backup ought to be in a separate box.     You can't realistically call an extra disk inside your PC a backup disk.  



     


    My plan was either 1 internal, 1 time machine, plus wireless backup, or 2 internal, plus wireless backup. 


     


    Problems still are getting cheap 4 TB drives, the cabling and the Mac. If Apple made an external Fusion drive that looked exactly like the Mac mini, I'd be tempted. If the internal and external drive could fused, I'd be tempted. If they made a thunderbolt GPU in the same enclosure as a Mac mini, I'd be tempted too. Still, a lot of cabling though. 

  • Reply 57 of 145
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,946member
    wizard69 wrote: »
    First off; the Mini doesn't sell well at all.   Sales have been negative for some time in the USA.

    (citation needed)

    Why would it not be legal to state this? What exactly is illegal about not making money for money's sake? Can you show me the law that says it's a crime to not make money for money's sake? Did someone stick an amendment into the constitution that says you shall make money for money's sake?

    I don't think it's illegal per se. But corporations do need to follow the mission statement it filed, and if they deviate from it, shareholders have a right to sue. I don't remember the specific details. Also related, if not part of the same concept, they legally need to maximize shareholder value.
  • Reply 58 of 145


    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

    But corporations do need to follow the mission statement it filed, and if they deviate from it, shareholders have a right to sue.


     


    Isn't their mission statement "to make fricking awesome products" or something along those lines?

  • Reply 59 of 145
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,946member
    Isn't their mission statement "to make fricking awesome products" or something along those lines?


    That would be interesting. It turns out to be pretty boring, in my opinion. I also thought it would at least have guiding principles, not just tell us what they make.

    What is Apple's mission statement?
    Apple designs Macs, the best personal computers in the world, along with OS X, iLife, iWork and professional software. Apple leads the digital music revolution with its iPods and iTunes online store. Apple has reinvented the mobile phone with its revolutionary iPhone and App Store, and is defining the future of mobile media and computing devices with iPad.

    http://investor.apple.com/faq.cfm?FaqSetID=6
  • Reply 60 of 145


    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

    That would be interesting. It turns out to be pretty boring, in my opinion. I also thought it would at least have guiding principles, not just tell us what they make.



    What is Apple's mission statement?

    Apple designs Macs, the best personal computers in the world, along with OS X, iLife, iWork and professional software. Apple leads the digital music revolution with its iPods and iTunes online store. Apple has reinvented the mobile phone with its revolutionary iPhone and App Store, and is defining the future of mobile media and computing devices with iPad.



    http://investor.apple.com/faq.cfm?FaqSetID=6


     


    Let's pretend we're diagramming a sentence and break it down to its key "parts of speech".


     


    I see "leads", "reinvents", and "defines" in there. I believe a valid case could be made that these are their guiding principles. It's certainly what they've done, multiple times, since 1976.

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