AAPL is now at a record low, it can only rise from here.
I hope °_°?
Don't be naive.
Do you know what is between Apple and 300$? Nothing! There's no reason behind APPL. It can go all the way down...
Since Apple is growing so much and is by far the most powerful/strong company, it means nothing to them, but for shareholders it can be a very dangerous game to play.
Don't be emotional, lot's of people are losing money because they are trying to use emotion/logic/tech knowledge to make decisions about buying shares, don't do that. Think like a stupid fandroid, or someone that only sees MTV, dress like a slut, etc. That's the right way to make money from Apple's stock. Wall street isn't for smart people/engineers/etc, otherwise we would have a lot of Warren Buffets. Wall street is for "sheep", the ones that follow digitime's rumors, etc. that sort of trash...
My guess is that 50% of those were low-end handsets. Apple doesn't play in this market.
No. All galaxy line of models sold less than 100 million since their creation... You can barely see high end samsung phones and they "only" had 6 billion on profit from fridges TVs missiles and tanks, etc.
My educated guess? Less than 20% were high end phones (note+s3+s2).
Weak in that their market share went down for the quarter.
I meant to say good "year" not good "war". I always have trouble with the mobile version of AI...
Apple sold a record num of iPhones and the market is growing at a faster pace. That is not weak. Now if Apple sold less than before or the market is shrinking, then that'll be worse.
So how many analysts actually wrote/said that Apple was "doomed". Please provide link in each case. Otherwise, you're liar, right?
I don't think I said any analyst said Apple was doomed in verbatim, but considering the P/E ratio is low and the fact Apple can back 1/3 of its market cap with cash/invest, what possible logic could there be in the steep drop? Why is it only Apple needs to create new markets. What's the point of market share if you're not making any money. At worse, Apple has 2/3 of the mobile profits. It sold a record number if iPhone/iPads. The Mac did drop but Cook did warn about that in the last qtr. Analysts fret about market share AND ASP. They want cheap product but they want the margins and ASP to be high. Apple can't win.
No. All galaxy line of models sold less than 100 million since their creation... You can barely see high end samsung phones and they "only" had 6 billion on profit from fridges TVs missiles and tanks, etc.
My educated guess? Less than 20% were high end phones (note+s3+s2).
According to the latest Samsung quarterly profit statements their handsets division "which sells about a quarter of all mobile phones in the world according to analysts, saw an operating profit of 5.44tn won, up from 2.56tn won a year earlier."
Also of note: Samsung is projecting that overall growth in smartphone sales will begin slowing this year worldwide, particularly noticeable in developed countries (ie US, GB, FR, etc).
Overall, Apple's share was 25% in 2012. But the Q4 share was 21%. Furthermore, it's lower than its Q4 share in 2011. So is Blackbook really completely wrong?
I understand the instinct to feel defensive when one is a holder of $AAPL. But objectivity is worth as much as money?
I am not a holder of AAPL, nor was their last quarter "weak" by any objective, rational measure. So, yes, he was completely wrong.
Looks like the data is saying it was a good war overall but a weak holiday quarter for Apple.
Samsung undoubtedly had a good quarter, but the numbers are slightly misleading. Every company other than Apple reports units shipped as opposed to units sold. Apple reports units sold. Inevitably Samsung has millions of units sitting in stores or in transit that are counted towards its sales figures. If Apple used the same counting method, it would undoubtedly have millions more units as well (at least in transit).
Samsung is beating up Apple mostly in emerging markets like China where it is selling devices on the world's largest carrier, but Apple is not. Apple will likely address this by bringing out a less expensive iPhone (perhaps just for those markets).
This isn't hard to figure out. Let's look at the sales over the past six months, to get an up to date estimate of what customers are currently buying.
Samsung sold ~116 million smartphones during that time period (3Q and 4Q).
The "100 million Galaxy S total" consists of 25 million S, 40 million S2 and 41 million S3.
The S3 was introduced at the beginning of June, but didn't hit the mass markets until the end of July. We'll cut that in half, and say it started mid-year. Therefore about 41 million S3s sold out of 116 million total smartphones, so...
~35% of Samsung's smartphone sales over the past six months were GS3 alone.
Throw in just three months of the Galaxy Note 2, which sold 5 million in 60 days and was averaging 2 million a month, and we get that about 41% of all their smartphones sold in the second half of 2012 were the newest high end units (Galaxy S3 and Note 2).
This leaves out any second half sales of older S2 and Note models, which would increase the high end percentage.
This isn't hard to figure out. Let's look at the sales over the past six months, to get an up to date estimate of what customers are currently buying.
Samsung sold ~116 million smartphones during that time period (3Q and 4Q).
The "100 million Galaxy S total" consists of 25 million S, 40 million S2 and 41 million S3.
The S3 was introduced at the beginning of June, but didn't hit the mass markets until the end of July. We'll cut that in half, and say it started mid-year. Therefore about 41 million S3s sold out of 116 million total smartphones, so...
~35% of Samsung's smartphone sales over the past six months were GS3 alone.
Throw in just three months of the Galaxy Note 2, which sold 5 million in 60 days and was averaging 2 million a month, and we get that about 41% of all their smartphones sold in the second half of 2012 were the newest high end units (Galaxy S3 and Note 2).
This leaves out any second half sales of older S2 and Note models, which would increase the high end percentage.
So what you are saying is that Apple sold more high end smartphones in one quarter than Samsung did in half a year?
So what you are saying is that Apple sold more high end smartphones in one quarter than Samsung did in half a year?
Probably. Haven't looked, since I'm not doing any such comparison. Let the kids fight the meaningless fan wars about "who's winning" etc . I guarantee that in a fairly short period of time, few here will even remember these threads.
I'm only posting numbers for others to use in their debates; numbers which are more than just wild guesses.
Samsung undoubtedly had a good quarter, but the numbers are slightly misleading. Every company other than Apple reports units shipped as opposed to units sold. Apple reports units sold.
Apple reports a sale either when (1) a unit is sold directly to an end user from their own stores, or (2) when a unit is shipped to a retailer to be resold to an end user later.
In Samsung's SEC filing, they state that they record a sale when the unit is delivered to a retailer.
Quote:
Inevitably Samsung has millions of units sitting in stores or in transit that are counted towards its sales figures. If Apple used the same counting method, it would undoubtedly have millions more units as well (at least in transit).
For BOTH companies, there are times that units already counted as sales are not retailed immediately to end users. For example, the infamous time a couple of years ago when Samsung's first tablets didn't sell through to end users as much as retailers had ordered.
Another example occurred last year for iPhones and iPads, when retailers bought more units in one quarter than they could sell through to end users, and therefore bought less the next quarter, due to millions of extra units still in their retailer inventory.
Apple sold a record num of iPhones and the market is growing at a faster pace. That is not weak. Now if Apple sold less than before or the market is shrinking, then that'll be worse.
I don't think I said any analyst said Apple was doomed in verbatim, but considering the P/E ratio is low and the fact Apple can back 1/3 of its market cap with cash/invest, what possible logic could there be in the steep drop? Why is it only Apple needs to create new markets. What's the point of market share if you're not making any money. At worse, Apple has 2/3 of the mobile profits. It sold a record number if iPhone/iPads. The Mac did drop but Cook did warn about that in the last qtr. Analysts fret about market share AND ASP. They want cheap product but they want the margins and ASP to be high. Apple can't win.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
I am not a holder of AAPL, nor was their last quarter "weak" by any objective, rational measure. So, yes, he was completely wrong.
Probably a better analysis of the situation is that the low end smartphone market (Samsung) grew faster than the high end (Apple)
Apple didn't have a "bad" quarter, but it was weaker than many expected. I do find it interesting how well the iPhone 4 sold this holiday quarter. The demand for cheaper handsets seems to be strong not only in the "3rd world" but also here in the US as well.
I thought that when I bought at 455 yesterday. Yet it is still sinking while the rest of the market raises.
I wrote a few days ago that I'll be buying back into AAPL soon, but I haven't done it yet. Buying now is just rolling the dice, IMO. I need to see confirmation first, and time my moves at the right time. Buying at the absolute bottom is not a big priority for me. Buying when it is trending up is more of a priority for me. If AAPL stays flat for a while, then I guess that I will be patient, and I won't be making any moves at all, at least not in AAPL.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
Samsung, meanwhile, shipped 63.7 million smartphones in the holiday quarter,
My guess is that 50% of those were low-end handsets. Apple doesn't play in this market.
OK, one more time for those who can' be bothered to click the links I posted above.
Total smartphones for the year is NOT 545.2 million, according to IDC's own figures.
excellent links with much more detailed information on the smartphone market. Should be required reading before posting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach
Yep! Saw That and bought some shares today.
AAPL is now at a record low, it can only rise from here.
I hope °_°?
it'll start rising once the product rumors start rolling out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach
Yep! Saw That and bought some shares today.
AAPL is now at a record low, it can only rise from here.
I hope °_°?
Don't be naive.
Do you know what is between Apple and 300$? Nothing! There's no reason behind APPL. It can go all the way down...
Since Apple is growing so much and is by far the most powerful/strong company, it means nothing to them, but for shareholders it can be a very dangerous game to play.
Don't be emotional, lot's of people are losing money because they are trying to use emotion/logic/tech knowledge to make decisions about buying shares, don't do that. Think like a stupid fandroid, or someone that only sees MTV, dress like a slut, etc. That's the right way to make money from Apple's stock. Wall street isn't for smart people/engineers/etc, otherwise we would have a lot of Warren Buffets. Wall street is for "sheep", the ones that follow digitime's rumors, etc. that sort of trash...
Please, don't risk it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OllieWallieWhiskers
My guess is that 50% of those were low-end handsets. Apple doesn't play in this market.
No. All galaxy line of models sold less than 100 million since their creation... You can barely see high end samsung phones and they "only" had 6 billion on profit from fridges TVs missiles and tanks, etc.
My educated guess? Less than 20% were high end phones (note+s3+s2).
Apple sold a record num of iPhones and the market is growing at a faster pace. That is not weak. Now if Apple sold less than before or the market is shrinking, then that'll be worse.
I don't think I said any analyst said Apple was doomed in verbatim, but considering the P/E ratio is low and the fact Apple can back 1/3 of its market cap with cash/invest, what possible logic could there be in the steep drop? Why is it only Apple needs to create new markets. What's the point of market share if you're not making any money. At worse, Apple has 2/3 of the mobile profits. It sold a record number if iPhone/iPads. The Mac did drop but Cook did warn about that in the last qtr. Analysts fret about market share AND ASP. They want cheap product but they want the margins and ASP to be high. Apple can't win.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
No. All galaxy line of models sold less than 100 million since their creation... You can barely see high end samsung phones and they "only" had 6 billion on profit from fridges TVs missiles and tanks, etc.
My educated guess? Less than 20% were high end phones (note+s3+s2).
According to the latest Samsung quarterly profit statements their handsets division "which sells about a quarter of all mobile phones in the world according to analysts, saw an operating profit of 5.44tn won, up from 2.56tn won a year earlier."
I think that's around $4.7B in US dollars.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21191431
Also of note: Samsung is projecting that overall growth in smartphone sales will begin slowing this year worldwide, particularly noticeable in developed countries (ie US, GB, FR, etc).
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/samsung-puts-lid-capex-1st-time-since-financial-123102850--finance.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent
Overall, Apple's share was 25% in 2012. But the Q4 share was 21%. Furthermore, it's lower than its Q4 share in 2011. So is Blackbook really completely wrong?
I understand the instinct to feel defensive when one is a holder of $AAPL. But objectivity is worth as much as money?
I am not a holder of AAPL, nor was their last quarter "weak" by any objective, rational measure. So, yes, he was completely wrong.
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie
Nokia at 6.4% - they never knew what hit them.
"Well, just change the title… 'Sometimes You Hear The Bullet'…"
Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach
AAPL is now at a record low, it can only rise from here.
Record low is like a dollar. If Apple hits that, I'll buy 100,000 shares. I'll take out a loan to do it, but I'll buy the 100,000 shares!
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbook
Looks like the data is saying it was a good war overall but a weak holiday quarter for Apple.
Samsung undoubtedly had a good quarter, but the numbers are slightly misleading. Every company other than Apple reports units shipped as opposed to units sold. Apple reports units sold. Inevitably Samsung has millions of units sitting in stores or in transit that are counted towards its sales figures. If Apple used the same counting method, it would undoubtedly have millions more units as well (at least in transit).
Samsung is beating up Apple mostly in emerging markets like China where it is selling devices on the world's largest carrier, but Apple is not. Apple will likely address this by bringing out a less expensive iPhone (perhaps just for those markets).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach
Yep! Saw That and bought some shares today.
AAPL is now at a record low, it can only rise from here.
I hope °_°?
I thought that when I bought at 455 yesterday. Yet it is still sinking while the rest of the market raises.
This isn't hard to figure out. Let's look at the sales over the past six months, to get an up to date estimate of what customers are currently buying.
Samsung sold ~116 million smartphones during that time period (3Q and 4Q).
The "100 million Galaxy S total" consists of 25 million S, 40 million S2 and 41 million S3.
The S3 was introduced at the beginning of June, but didn't hit the mass markets until the end of July. We'll cut that in half, and say it started mid-year. Therefore about 41 million S3s sold out of 116 million total smartphones, so...
~35% of Samsung's smartphone sales over the past six months were GS3 alone.
Throw in just three months of the Galaxy Note 2, which sold 5 million in 60 days and was averaging 2 million a month, and we get that about 41% of all their smartphones sold in the second half of 2012 were the newest high end units (Galaxy S3 and Note 2).
This leaves out any second half sales of older S2 and Note models, which would increase the high end percentage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling
This isn't hard to figure out. Let's look at the sales over the past six months, to get an up to date estimate of what customers are currently buying.
Samsung sold ~116 million smartphones during that time period (3Q and 4Q).
The "100 million Galaxy S total" consists of 25 million S, 40 million S2 and 41 million S3.
The S3 was introduced at the beginning of June, but didn't hit the mass markets until the end of July. We'll cut that in half, and say it started mid-year. Therefore about 41 million S3s sold out of 116 million total smartphones, so...
~35% of Samsung's smartphone sales over the past six months were GS3 alone.
Throw in just three months of the Galaxy Note 2, which sold 5 million in 60 days and was averaging 2 million a month, and we get that about 41% of all their smartphones sold in the second half of 2012 were the newest high end units (Galaxy S3 and Note 2).
This leaves out any second half sales of older S2 and Note models, which would increase the high end percentage.
So what you are saying is that Apple sold more high end smartphones in one quarter than Samsung did in half a year?
Originally Posted by KDarling
…41% of all their smartphones sold in the second half of 2012 were the newest high end units…
Funny how copying Apple's devices and strategy shows that the strategy is the most successful one after all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndirishfan1975
So what you are saying is that Apple sold more high end smartphones in one quarter than Samsung did in half a year?
Probably. Haven't looked, since I'm not doing any such comparison. Let the kids fight the meaningless fan wars about "who's winning" etc . I guarantee that in a fairly short period of time, few here will even remember these threads.
I'm only posting numbers for others to use in their debates; numbers which are more than just wild guesses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
"Well, just change the title… 'Sometimes You Hear The Bullet'…"
Record low is like a dollar. If Apple hits that, I'll buy 100,000 shares. I'll take out a loan to do it, but I'll buy the 100,000 shares!
Yeah, If you take it by the letter, it might sink even below that.
http://www.moneycontrol.com/india/stockpricequote/electricequipment/birlapowersolutions/BPS01
I still hope, AAPL doesn't follow that lead. ;-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell
Samsung undoubtedly had a good quarter, but the numbers are slightly misleading. Every company other than Apple reports units shipped as opposed to units sold. Apple reports units sold.
Apple reports a sale either when (1) a unit is sold directly to an end user from their own stores, or (2) when a unit is shipped to a retailer to be resold to an end user later.
In Samsung's SEC filing, they state that they record a sale when the unit is delivered to a retailer.
Quote:
Inevitably Samsung has millions of units sitting in stores or in transit that are counted towards its sales figures. If Apple used the same counting method, it would undoubtedly have millions more units as well (at least in transit).
For BOTH companies, there are times that units already counted as sales are not retailed immediately to end users. For example, the infamous time a couple of years ago when Samsung's first tablets didn't sell through to end users as much as retailers had ordered.
Another example occurred last year for iPhones and iPads, when retailers bought more units in one quarter than they could sell through to end users, and therefore bought less the next quarter, due to millions of extra units still in their retailer inventory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark
Apple sold a record num of iPhones and the market is growing at a faster pace. That is not weak. Now if Apple sold less than before or the market is shrinking, then that'll be worse.
I don't think I said any analyst said Apple was doomed in verbatim, but considering the P/E ratio is low and the fact Apple can back 1/3 of its market cap with cash/invest, what possible logic could there be in the steep drop? Why is it only Apple needs to create new markets. What's the point of market share if you're not making any money. At worse, Apple has 2/3 of the mobile profits. It sold a record number if iPhone/iPads. The Mac did drop but Cook did warn about that in the last qtr. Analysts fret about market share AND ASP. They want cheap product but they want the margins and ASP to be high. Apple can't win.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
I am not a holder of AAPL, nor was their last quarter "weak" by any objective, rational measure. So, yes, he was completely wrong.
Probably a better analysis of the situation is that the low end smartphone market (Samsung) grew faster than the high end (Apple)
Apple didn't have a "bad" quarter, but it was weaker than many expected. I do find it interesting how well the iPhone 4 sold this holiday quarter. The demand for cheaper handsets seems to be strong not only in the "3rd world" but also here in the US as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell
I thought that when I bought at 455 yesterday. Yet it is still sinking while the rest of the market raises.
I wrote a few days ago that I'll be buying back into AAPL soon, but I haven't done it yet. Buying now is just rolling the dice, IMO. I need to see confirmation first, and time my moves at the right time. Buying at the absolute bottom is not a big priority for me. Buying when it is trending up is more of a priority for me. If AAPL stays flat for a while, then I guess that I will be patient, and I won't be making any moves at all, at least not in AAPL.