'iPad 5' rumored to debut in Oct. with mini-like design, 'iPhone 5S' & plastic iPhone also coming [u

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  • Reply 81 of 171
    blackbookblackbook Posts: 1,361member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by gwmac View Post


    I hope the 4.7" iPhone+ becomes a reality. If it doesn't make an appearance then the 5S or 6 along with iOS 7 needs to really have some major new draws to keep all the 4S owners in the fold as their upgrades mature.  Apple has never faced so much tough competition as they will in 2013 from Android. Not to mention a resurgent RIM that looks to have a pretty nice OS and a nostalgic but loyal base ready to stick with Blackberry or return if given a compelling reason. 


     


    A cheaper but not "cheap" iPhone also makes sense. The cheapest current new iPhone is the 8GB iPhone 4  which is still $450 - $500 depending on the country without subsidies. It is a quality phone but is perceived rightly or wrongly as old. Over 70% of the world's smartphone customers do not get any subsidy at all for a phone so they have to pay the full price. Even the U.S. has changed to an extent and has hurt Apple sales quite dramatically. If the carriers all had the same upgrade policies they had 2 or 3 years ago in place, Apple would have breezed by 50 million iPhone sales. I used to get a full upgrade every 12 months but now it is 18 months, and for some carriers 20 or 22 months. Phone geeks still upgrade often and own 3 or 4 phones, but they are a tiny minority. 


     


    Apple is good at making something cheaper in price without making it cheap. Even if that means taking essentially the guts out of the 4 or 4S and putting it into a plastic case to be able to offer a phone for $350. Many parents buy their kids those low end and dirt cheap Android phones that really are complete crap. But since kids lose and break phones it is a good choice since they are easy and cheap to replace. But once those kids get used to Android or any OS they tend to stay with what is familiar and comfortable and then buy a Galaxy or other expensive Android phone later. So a cheaper iPhone could serve as a gateway drug to lock them into the ecosystem. 



     


    The iPhone 5/5S's screen is already bigger than the 4S. Shouldn't that be enough draw for them since their all coming from 3.5 inch screens?


     


    I don't see why everyone here thinks a cheaper iPhone needs to be put in some nasty plastic case.


     


    As I said the $50 iPod shuffle doesn't have a plastic case why would a $300 iPhone?


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post


    no no no... are you guys blind? There's a brand new iPod touch with great margins for 329. put only 8gb, put a 3.5" retina (much cheaper), 800mhz a5 and you have an amazing new and great phone with 0 R&D, BOM of less than 160, machinery ready.


     


    299, GREAT BUILD QUALITY, margins of more than 40%, much more marketshare so stronger ecosystem revenue. Same stuff they did with the mini.


     



     


    I agree this what we should expect if and only if Apple made a cheaper iPhone.


     


    Top grade materials, likely using iPod Touch internals. That would be a good phone.

  • Reply 82 of 171
    blackbookblackbook Posts: 1,361member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by lghulm View Post


    When talking about a redesigned cheaper model I hate it when people say "they can just keep selling the iPhone 4 / 4S"


     


    The thing is, as a marketer (which I am) it is so much better to be selling a redesigned 2013 iPhone Mini than it is a 2010/2011 iPhone 4/4S.


     


    It can have the exact same chip, the exact same screen, the exact same OS, camera, the lot, but by virtue of being 'new' it will sell bucket loads more.


    This is why new car models come out year after year with merely a change to the headlight shape or the front grill... the fact that it is different to the last years model, no matter that it is a minor change and simply cosmetic guarantees enhanced sales.


    I understand this as a marketer and a consumer, I am not sure why so many people on this site miss it entirely.


     


    An iPhone Mini (with plastic shell if you like) will outsell an iPhone 4/4S with identical specs simply because it is something new for the public to fall in love with.


     


    The general public are not technology nerds (like us) and are looking for the latest product (not necessarily the best specs) at an affordable price, that looks attractive, works as advertised and fulfils the needs they have for purchasing the product: surfing the web, taking photos, making calls.


    An iPhone Mini meets these criteria an iPhone 4/4S does not.


     


    Of course Apple can further enhance the Mini's attractiveness by upping select specs above the 4/4S but it should be noted that this is not necessary for success but would help shift additional units if the price remained reasonable.


     


    Someone please repost my thoughts in rebuttal the next time this argument evolves because I am tired of seeing it made and not refuted.



     


    They could go either way IMO.


     


    The iPhone 4 is a great phone better than anything else at the $300 price.


     


    I don't think people perceive it as dated or less than.


     


    If the phone in question visibly looked outdated (like a 3GS for example) than what you're saying would be more pertinent.


     


    I do agree though that Apple could generate more interest with a new case design, but they should avoid an entirely plastic case. If it were aluminum with maybe only a small plastic window for the wireless systems (ala the 7G iPod Nano) that would be nice.


     


    Make it sexy cool and maybe even colorful and that would have the potential to be a bigger hit than 3 year old phones.

  • Reply 83 of 171
    gwmacgwmac Posts: 1,797member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by blackbook View Post


     


     


     


     


     


    I don't see any of what has been said as major OS overhauling features.


     


    Most people on here are saying Apple needs to turn iOS completely upside down inside out and make it more like Android.


     


    Honestly iOS is fine and there are only a few tweaks that would make it better. IMO Apple should strive to make the UI and functionality closer to OS X. I was playing with a Nexus 7 and I hated how they implemented settings on that device. Apple needs to do their own thing and not copy anyone else.



    I don't see how my suggestions about using the blank space on the spotlight screen is turning iOS upside down. How is swiping from the bottom towards the top a radical idea either? iOS is very stable and has a lot of good points but there are also many improvements that can and should be made. Notifications for example. An app might have 3 or many more notifications. Why can't we swipe away certain ones and leave others to deal with later instead of only having a small X for the app itself. That is not very intuitive or helpful. I agree that iOS could take some cues from OS X and give us a bit more functionality. Let me give you an example, how about smart labels. We could choose our own categories or just use the ones Apple provides in the App store. The create a folder and ask it to place all the shopping apps for example in that folder. If you don't like folders, then at least offer a way to display certain types of apps when you can't remember the name of an app. And with many of us having hundreds of apps it is very easy to forget the name of them very easily. 


     


    iOS is nice but is staring to get a bit long in the tooth and stale. As basically an app selector it worked well when people had less than 100 apps, but now people have hundreds. We need some better tools to organize and quickly find what we are looking for instead of simply going hunting from screen to screen. There are many ways Apple could significantly improve and augment iOS without sacrificing any of the positive attributes.  

  • Reply 84 of 171
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,582member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by gwmac View Post


    ... iOS is nice but is staring to get a bit long in the tooth and stale. ...



     


    It's really not.

  • Reply 85 of 171


    Originally Posted by gwmac View Post


    iOS is nice but is staring to get a bit long in the tooth and stale.



     


    I'm sorry, do you WANT to be not be taken seriously?

  • Reply 86 of 171

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post





    Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

    You love those straw men arguments don't you…


     


    Tech moves faster now. 7 years then isn't 7 years now. You know this. Don't pretend otherwise.



     


    But everything new doesn't need to be the latest tech!  If we are talking an entry [smart]phone for the emerging world, the older tech is just fine for their needs -- after all they are currently buying new dumb phones or "smart" phones that have a 2-3-year-old Android OS -- that restricts their usage to "feature" phones.

  • Reply 87 of 171
    blackbookblackbook Posts: 1,361member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by gwmac View Post


    I don't see how my suggestions about using the blank space on the spotlight screen is turning iOS upside down. How is swiping from the bottom towards the top a radical idea either? iOS is very stable and has a lot of good points but there are also many improvements that can and should be made. Notifications for example. An app might have 3 or many more notifications. Why can't we swipe away certain ones and leave others to deal with later instead of only having a small X for the app itself. That is not very intuitive or helpful. I agree that iOS could take some cues from OS X and give us a bit more functionality. Let me give you an example, how about smart labels. We could choose our own categories or just use the ones Apple provides in the App store. The create a folder and ask it to place all the shopping apps for example in that folder. If you don't like folders, then at least offer a way to display certain types of apps when you can't remember the name of an app. And with many of us having hundreds of apps it is very easy to forget the name of them very easily. 


     


    iOS is nice but is staring to get a bit long in the tooth and stale. As basically an app selector it worked well when people had less than 100 apps, but now people have hundreds. We need some better tools to organize and quickly find what we are looking for instead of simply going hunting from screen to screen. There are many ways Apple could significantly improve and augment iOS without sacrificing any of the positive attributes.  



     


    My comment wasn't directed specifically at you, but at the general "iOS needs to be more like Android" crowd.


     


    Android is not a joy to use at all, and there's very little that I find more "intuitive". There may be a feature here or there that's nice, but the OS in its entirety is lacking.


     


    Some of your ideas sound interesting, but would implementing those make iOS less stale to you? Probably not I would presume.


     


    A lot of people have gripes with the look of iOS, but it's so functional.First thing you do when you turn on your smart phone is open and use apps. iOS has the apps are right there in front of you to select after you turn your phone on.


     


    You don't have to go through loop holes, steps, or folders to get to what you're looking for. Apple could make the icons themselves more interactive (live tiles/mini widgets-esque), but that would probably just be distracting and not add much to the experience.

  • Reply 88 of 171
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,902member
    Why? The vast majority of iPhone users are not snobs.
    You can be assured that if there is a cheap plastic phone, there is no way that Apple can restrict it to 'developing markets.' It'll also be the handset for kids or the less well-off in the richer countries.
    Is there a problem with that? Further it might also be THE iPhone for people that simply have different priorities.
    This is a path down which Apple should not want to go, and likely will not. So I am calling b/s on that part of the rumor.

    It is Apples job to grab as much market share as possible and to not screw up like they did with the Mac. The management team at Apple has stated publicly many times now that they don't expect to repeat the mistakes of the past. As such I expect to see a variety of phones in the future, it is the only way to cover the vast difference in market need.
  • Reply 89 of 171
    Perhaps the cheap, plastic iPhone is really just a remote for the rumored Apple TV set...
  • Reply 90 of 171
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,902member
    anonymouse wrote: »
    This rumor of no side bezels on the 9.7" iPad simply doesn't seem credible. There's little to no benefit, and the ergonomics would be bad, to say the least. It just doesn't pass the smell test.
    Apple has already addressed the bezel issue.
    I think he's been duped, which leaves the rest of his rumors less than credible, too, as a result.
    These are rumors and as such they must be taken with a grain of salt. However I'm all for a new iPad that is smaller & lighter but more powerful at the same time. The one mistake you seem to make is to deny technologies march forward.
  • Reply 91 of 171

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post




    Quote:

    Originally Posted by gwmac View Post


    ... iOS is nice but is staring to get a bit long in the tooth and stale. ...



     


    It's really not.



     


    I agree, I've personally run an Apache web server on an iPhone, AppleTV, iPod, etc.


     


    iOS, is basically OS X with some non-essential (for a phone) stuff removed, some new stuff added and a different UI (Cocoa Touch) -- and a lot of things hidden.  For example if you JailBreak an iOS device what you will see is the OS X file system, folders...  all very familiar.


     


    In some ways iOS is more capable, refined and state-of -the-art than OS X.  Many of the old NeXT OS features in OS X implementations were rewritten and done "the right  way" for iOS.  These, in turn, are being / have been ported back from iOS to the OS X mothership.

  • Reply 92 of 171
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,902member
    blackbook wrote: »
    Only thing that makes sense is the iPhone 5S which we all already knew was coming.

    iPad 5? Some of what he said makes sense, but I don't think Apple is going to ditch the bezels, unless the iPad 5 is as light as the Mini (not likely).

    Plastic iPhone? No.
    And why would you say that? Plastic makes a lot of sense in a cell phone. Further the first couple of iPhones where plastic.
    iPhone +? "Plan B" against Android? Now he's just making stuff up.

    Come on now, Apple likely has plan B,C,D & etc running in development with the primary machine. Again Apple has basically acknowledged this multiple times. They often produce ten or more prototypes at a time. Without a doubt there are phones of different sizes in these offerings.
  • Reply 93 of 171
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,902member
    umrk_lab wrote: »
    no plastic, no fragile material, please .... I want something ROBUST

    A bit like Klingon design :

    Snipped

    Are plastics really any more fragile than glass in the context of a cell phone? They aren't of course and just like glass formulas there are different types of plastic that are incredibly durable. Comments like these highlight a woefully uninformed individual.
  • Reply 94 of 171
    blackbookblackbook Posts: 1,361member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post





    And why would you say that? Plastic makes a lot of sense in a cell phone. Further the first couple of iPhones where plastic.

    Come on now, Apple likely has plan B,C,D & etc running in development with the primary machine. Again Apple has basically acknowledged this multiple times. They often produce ten or more prototypes at a time. Without a doubt there are phones of different sizes in these offerings.


     


    I think an entirely plastic phone case would be unnecessary.


     


    The could develop a phone with a metal case much like the iPod Touch and sell it for $300. The case is NOT the most expensive component in an iPhone. 


     


    The most important thing is that this "cheaper iPhone" carry "Apple" look and feel so that people will want to buy the more expensive Apple products.


     


    I don't doubt they've experimented with larger screens, but to say this is their "plan B" against large screen Androids sounds rather foolish to me. It sounds like "if the 4 inch form factor fails we'll have to release this 5 inch screen". I'm sure Apple does more market research than throwing stuff out there hoping it works.

  • Reply 95 of 171
    gwmacgwmac Posts: 1,797member


    I am far from alone in thinking iOS is getting very stale and needs a major overhaul. It really is largely unchanged from iOS 3. It doesn't need to copy Android or Windows by any means, but there is room for a lot of improvements. I gave some examples of just a few ideas I had that do not exist on any platform that I feel I would personally love to have. I expect big things from iOS 7. 


     


    http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2012/07/iphone_google_glass_apple_s_tech_innovation_has_gotten_boring_it_s_time_for_something_new_.html


     


    http://www.theverge.com/2012/9/21/3363238/iphone-5-review


     


    http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-ios-software-2012-11

  • Reply 96 of 171
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,215member
    You can be assured that if there is a cheap plastic phone, there is no way that Apple can restrict it to 'developing markets.' It'll also be the handset for kids or the less well-off in the richer countries.

    This is a path down which Apple should not want to go, and likely will not. So I am calling b/s on that part of the rumor.

    Schiller is in record saying Apple isn't going to build an iPhones to a price point, and Apple doesn't make things 'cheap'

    Combine this with the new financing thing in china and I think we can put the cheap iPhone for poor countries crap to bed
  • Reply 97 of 171
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,902member
    I consider myself fairly well versed in UNIX and a number of other OS's and I wouldn't want such an arrangement either. IOS needs to continue to evolve of course, but the last thing we need is a modal OS. Frankly it isn't so much the OS but rather the apps included with iOS that need work. Things like text editing and formatting in notes for example. In a nut shell all of the Apple supplied base apps in iOS need an overhaul especially to expand editing capabilities.
    gazoobee wrote: »
    This is unlikely to be even possible given the horsepower of the average iPad/iPhone at the moment but even if it was it's easy to see that this is something that only the tiniest percentage of the market would actually want.  

    The tiny percentage of users that need such is the big problem, there just isn't enough to drive a shadow OS. Now granted Apple can do more to support power users but that is likely best handled at the app level.
  • Reply 98 of 171
    Plastic IPhone=Apple has gone nuts/not happening.(based on plastic means mini) the rest is self explanatory
  • Reply 99 of 171
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,215member
    "Apple wrote:
    [" url="/t/155638/ipad-5-rumored-to-debut-in-oct-with-mini-like-design-iphone-5s-plastic-iphone-also-coming-u#post_2264723"]I don't know about that prediction chart.

    Does it makes sense for Apple to release basically everything in Q3? I mean, it's not like we're likely to run into any supply or production issues right? Because that certainly hasn't happened before. Just for the sake of conversation, let's say that the chart is real.

    Agreed. The iOS devices in q3 makes sense with the new iOS. Release everything new in the new software. I think that was as much a reason as the lighting connector model iPad 4 this fall

    The laptops they might push to the start of summer for back to school. And who says there will be new iMacs every year. They could be more like every 18/24 months. Or even a baby bump this summer and then add that to the back to school clock

    The Mac Pro and a revamped display could appear in summer as well, perhaps with a bumped Mac OS.
  • Reply 100 of 171
    blackbookblackbook Posts: 1,361member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by gwmac View Post


    I am far from alone in thinking iOS is getting very stale and needs a major overhaul. It really is largely unchanged from iOS 3. It doesn't need to copy Android or Windows by any means, but there is room for a lot of improvements. I gave some examples of just a few ideas I had that do not exist on any platform that I feel I would personally love to have. I expect big things from iOS 7. 


     


    http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2012/07/iphone_google_glass_apple_s_tech_innovation_has_gotten_boring_it_s_time_for_something_new_.html


     


    http://www.theverge.com/2012/9/21/3363238/iphone-5-review


     


    http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-ios-software-2012-11



     


    Of course techies think the OS is stale. But funny thing is I rarely hear techies say Windows looks "stale" when it has looked relatively the same for 20 years.


     


    Android hasn't changed much either, but I guess they love how much you can "customize" Android.


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post



    I consider myself fairly well versed in UNIX and a number of other OS's and I wouldn't want such an arrangement either. IOS needs to continue to evolve of course, but the last thing we need is a modal OS. Frankly it isn't so much the OS but rather the apps included with iOS that need work. Things like text editing and formatting in notes for example. In a nut shell all of the Apple supplied base apps in iOS need an overhaul especially to expand editing capabilities.

    The tiny percentage of users that need such is the big problem, there just isn't enough to drive a shadow OS. Now granted Apple can do more to support power users but that is likely best handled at the app level.


     


    I agree.


     


    The native apps need help. Or maybe could give us the option to delete some of them and replace them with 3rd party apps.

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