Ship times for 21.5" iMac slips to 2-3 weeks on US Apple Online Store

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  • Reply 41 of 109


     





    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post





    I appreciate it when people take risks to accomplish useful goals, which this was not. They changed the design for the sake of it, not to accomplish any objective goal.

     


     


    So you were in the design meetings when they just pulled this design out of their butts. 


     


    Oh wait, no you probably weren't. So you don't know the reasons, or lack of. You just don't like what they did so you don't bother to ask why they might have done any of it. You just dump on it. Fine you don't like it, don't buy it. It's that simple. 


     


    You think Apple's gone moron and they don't know what they are doing. Don't buy their products, sell your stock and delete all your bookmarks to Apple related sites. Again that simple. You can spend your time designing and building your own computer that will be done the right way. With an OS done the way you think it should have been done along. etc. 


     


    Quote:


    Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post


    Furthermore, Apple used to be known for using EXISTING technologies in innovative ways, not for creating new technologies and using it to produce the same products.


     


    Based on YOUR definition. I happen to disagree and I think that many others, not just on this forum, would disagree with you and say that their definition of innovation like mine is all of those things. 


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post





    While he might have contributed to the current product like, you can not claim that he would have given it the green light to go into production in its current state.


     


    You aren't Steve Jobs and you likely never worked at Apple so you are a bit off base claiming to know what he would or wouldn't do. So don't even try it. 

  • Reply 42 of 109

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post


     


     


    Steve was at Apple until 2011.  As these devices take a couple of years to plan and put to market and any company worth its salt has a plan that goes several years forward, Steve is still all over the current Apple lineup.



     


    From plan to market is likely more like 5 years, even up to 10. I don't think we are close to seeing the end of Steve's touch on things

  • Reply 43 of 109

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


     


    It could be, in part, because there isn't a good enough "Tim Cook" equivalent paying the kind of attention that Tim Cook was, when Jobs was doing Cook's current job. With all that being a CEO entails, Cook himself is perhaps not able to provide the kind of operations oversight at which he was once so masterful.



     


    I said this a while ago.


     


    It seems to me like a version of the Peter Principle.


     


    It makes me wonder if Tim is the right guy for the job. Not that Tim Cook isn't a terrific executive but as a CEO (without SJ) I'm really beginning to wonder if he is truly screwing up or he's just trying to get his legs.


     


    I've always thought that 2013 will be Tim's year. Make or break.

  • Reply 44 of 109

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by charlituna View Post





    It's also classic Steve Jobs. Steve abhorred the notion of anyone announcing a product before Apple did. Yes there were rumors but nothing that could be deemed official like FCC papers or such. Steve had no issue with announcing somethng months before release so Apple was the first to give the official word.

     




    Really?


     


    When did Jobs announce a new Mac months ahead of time? Very rarely, if ever. The first iPhone was announced 6 months before launch because of FCC requirement. After that, I believe the longest gap between announcement and launch was 2 months.

  • Reply 45 of 109

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by stelligent View Post


    The first iPhone was announced 6 months before launch because of FCC requirement. 



     


    It wasn't, as your comment is toned, an FCC requirement to announce the iPhone early. Same with the iPad with cellular. They did it because the FCC papers are public knowledge and would be a confirmed announcement and as I said, Steve hated anyone saying anything official before Apple did. 


     


    In regards to your question about the iMac. The G3 was announced in May, didn't go on sale until August. 

  • Reply 46 of 109

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


     


    It wasn't, as your comment is toned, an FCC requirement to announce the iPhone early. Same with the iPad with cellular. They did it because the FCC papers are public knowledge and would be a confirmed announcement and as I said, Steve hated anyone saying anything official before Apple did. 


     


    In regards to your question about the iMac. The G3 was announced in May, didn't go on sale until August. 





    I misspoke (miswrote), and stand (sit) corrected about the FCC thing.


     


    But my point about Jobs announcing products months ahead of time still stands. You named one example. But we can name many, many others that became available weeks rather than months after announcement.


     


    Digression: "as (my) comment is toned" ... I haven't seen the word "tone" used that way. Must try it some time.

  • Reply 47 of 109
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    vaelian wrote: »
    Changing existing products is not my definition of innovation. The iPod was innovation since it disrupted the market; the iPhone was innovation since it did the same; the iPad created an entire new market where people thought there wasn't one, so that too was innovation to me; the Retina MacBook Pros and new iMacs, however, are not innovation to me because they're both full of compromises without creating any new markets or disrupting existing ones. An awesome thing Jobs did was to simplify Apple's product line, and Cook is destroying that in an irrational bid for profit.

    So only a brand new product offering can be deemed innovation? You say the iPad was innovative when it's based completely off the innovations done to make the iPhone and the iPhone was originally going to be a tablet before they switched gears?

    Those are two distinct innovations but there are no innovation between the original Mac in 1984 and the new iMac in 2013? Really?!

    charlituna wrote: »
    It wasn't, as your comment is toned, an FCC requirement to announce the iPhone early. Same with the iPad with cellular. They did it because the FCC papers are public knowledge and would be a confirmed announcement and as I said, Steve hated anyone saying anything official before Apple did. 

    In regards to your question about the iMac. The G3 was announced in May, didn't go on sale until August. 

    The FCC keeps things under lock and key until you want it released. It has to be available by the time your product goes to market but they will release it that very day. There are also parts that you can keep hidden for longer periods of time, perhaps indefinitely.

    This was the case when the original iPhone was announced so the excuse given was not the whole truth. They did have to submit to the FCC which was say happen around February or March, if I remember correctly, but I think the real reasons for the 6 month lead time was to 1) prevent interested buyers from signing new 2 year contracts which allows 25% of American cell phone users the chance to be available, and 2) generate buzz to help bring on new international carriers. Did they any other than Cingular at the time? I can't recall.

    If there was any leaking Steve wanted to prevent it would have come from China as they ramped up production for this new device.
  • Reply 48 of 109
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    I said this a while ago.

    It seems to me like a version of the Peter Principle.

    It makes me wonder if Tim is the right guy for the job. Not that Tim Cook isn't a terrific executive but as a CEO (without SJ) I'm really beginning to wonder if he is truly screwing up or he's just trying to get his legs.

    I've always thought that 2013 will be Tim's year. Make or break.
    Jeff Williams who is SVP of Operations has been at Apple almost as long as Tim Cook has. One would assume he's filling the role Tim previously had. I think Cook is fine as CEO but maybe they need someone else (Schiller, Ive?) to be the face of the company. And I don't think it would hurt if they opened up just a bit. Last week I read a feature article on The Verge about Larry Page's design revolution at Google. They must have done it with some cooperation from Google because there were quotes from Google employees throughout the piece. There's been a ton of negative press around Apple these past few months. The perception is it's boring, stale, not innovative and Google and Microsoft are out designing them in the UI space. How long do you allow yourself to be punched in the gut without without fighting back? Tim Cook doing an interview with Brian Williams isn't going to get it done. Apple is allowing perception to become reality. And if we have no news, no product launches until summer/fall the stock will really take a beating this quarter.
  • Reply 49 of 109
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,510member
    I said this a while ago.

    It seems to me like a version of the Peter Principle.

    It makes me wonder if Tim is the right guy for the job. Not that Tim Cook isn't a terrific executive but as a CEO (without SJ) I'm really beginning to wonder if he is truly screwing up or he's just trying to get his legs.

    I've always thought that 2013 will be Tim's year. Make or break.

    A third possibility: the logistics and strategies of running a monster like Apple, growing the way it is growing and carrying out production revolutions every time it does a new product, is an operation so far-flung and complex that the world's greatest operations genius—Tim Cook, or SJ wouldn't have backed him so completely—can't magically make everything happen smoothly at once.
  • Reply 50 of 109

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post





    A third possibility: the logistics and strategies of running a monster like Apple, growing the way is is growing and carrying out production revolutions every time it does a new product, is an operation so far-flung and complex that the world's greatest operations genius—Tim Cook, or SJ wouldn't have backed him so completely—can't magically make everything happen smoothly at once.




    Well, if it is your third possibility then Steve didn't pick the right guy because Steve didn't seem to have quite so many problems.

  • Reply 51 of 109

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Vaelian View Post





    I appreciate it when people take risks to accomplish useful goals, which this was not. They changed the design for the sake of it, not to accomplish any objective goal.

    This is not a question of sensibility but rather of practicability. The new designs accomplish absolutely nothing in terms of usability or practicability, they do not have an objective goal; they do not actually improve anything; but they come with compromises; therefore they can not be called innovation. The manufacturing process may be innovative, but the manufacturing process is not a product, therefore it is outside the scope of this debate. Furthermore, Apple used to be known for using EXISTING technologies in innovative ways, not for creating new technologies and using it to produce the same products.


     


    I admit there can be a debate here. To me, the bold decision is to remove the built-in disc (CD/DVD) reader. I have no doubt that everyone will soon copy this, after criticizing it, as usual. This makes easier the shrinking of the screen thickness. Admitedly, this point is positive from design point of view only, and may even be detrimental to functionality , as already noted (because the speakers will be even smaller).


     


    Obsession for smaller, thinner, lighter, minimal design is in Apple's DNA.


     


    It contributes to positive side effects, such as energy savings. Of course , this is something very few people care about when it comes to Desktop machines, but mastering these issues has been key to success on mobiles, and will gain greater importance in the future, I believe.


     


    So, in short, whether the underlying logic can be criticized, it is at work, and moves on in a very coherent and predictable way.

  • Reply 52 of 109
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member

    Well, if it is your third possibility then Steve didn't pick the right guy because Steve didn't seem to have quite so many problems.

    Are you kidding? The internet is filled with doom and gloom for Apple over minor and short term issues that were blown out of proportion. A year from now something else will be the issue and the anti-Apple brigade will once again move their goalposts. I expect something along the lines of, "The only reason Tim Cook did so well the first couple years was because he was riding on Steve Jobs's fumes. Now that's gone and Tim Cook is showing us that he can't do the job. Apple is Doomed™."

    Case in point. Apple had to create an impromptu event to deal with the claims that the iPhone 4 couldn't hold a signal if it was touched.
  • Reply 53 of 109

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    Are you kidding? The internet is filled with doom and gloom for Apple over minor and short term issues that were blown out of proportion. A year from now something else will be the issue and the anti-Apple brigade will once again move their goalposts. I expect something along the lines of, "The only reason Tim Cook did so well the first couple years was because he was riding on Steve Jobs's fumes. Now that's gone and Tim Cook is showing us that he can't do the job. Apple is Doomed™."



    Case in point. Apple had to create an impromptu event to deal with the claims that the iPhone 4 couldn't hold a signal if it was touched.


     


    I gave 2 possibilities:


     


    1. Tim is above his station and worked better when he was Steve's wing man and Steve did well when he had Tim at his side. [which in turn gives at least two more possibilities... either a new CEO and Tim goes back to his old job (not likely) or Tim is fine as CEO but he needs to find another Tim for operations management]


     


    2. Tim is just getting his legs.


     


    Flaneur gave a third possibility which basically came down to Tim not being capable of running the company at any level... a point with which I don't agree in Tim's case... yet. I replied saying that "if" "his" (Flaneur) possibility was the case "then" Steve picked the wrong man... but I'm not ready to say that yet and would like to see another year with Tim at the helm.

  • Reply 54 of 109
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    umrk_lab wrote: »
    I admit there can be a debate here. To me, the bold decision is to remove the built-in disc (CD/DVD) reader. I have no doubt that everyone will soon copy this, after criticizing it, as usual. This makes easier the shrinking of the screen thickness. Admitedly, this point is positive from design point of view only, and may even be detrimental to functionality , as already noted (because the speakers will be even smaller).

    Obsession for smaller, thinner, lighter, minimal design is in Apple's DNA.

    It contributes to positive side effects, such as energy savings. Of course , this is something very few people care about when it comes to Desktop machines, but mastering these issues has been key to success on mobiles, and will gain greater importance in the future, I believe.

    So, in short, whether the underlying logic can be criticized, it is at work, and moves on in a very coherent and predictable way.

    1) I do worry about the speakers, especially in the next ATD which I assume will follow the same form and process as the new iMacs. If they have to reduce the sounds quality of the built-in speakers to make the iMacs that tun then to me that it's not ready to go that thin. It would have been nice to get RAM access on the 21.5" iMac and an option for a VESA mount, even it required some additional process but those aren't likely something that matter to many users. I'm fine with TV speakers or box PCs not being good as I've never had expectations and they've always been included as a fallback but notebooks and AIOs should try to give you equal or better audio then the previous model.

    2) I doubt many will think of this but having a lighter machine does make it more portable when you do move it. That's not enough reason for the user to want it to be lighter but when you consider Apple having to ship these products it makes a big difference to them. The box is no longer a cuboid but a trapezium box(?) which only makes sense if they are stacking them in alternative right-side-up and upside-down configurations to save on space during transport. I assume this would also require testing and perhaps new innovations to make sure the product can be safely transported and stored that way. Remember the issues (under Jobs, BTW) where magnetically attached iMac displays were arriving askew and sometimes chipped on the end?
  • Reply 55 of 109
    rogifan wrote: »
    Jeff Williams who is SVP of Operations has been at Apple almost as long as Tim Cook has. One would assume he's filling the role Tim previously had. I think Cook is fine as CEO but maybe they need someone else (Schiller, Ive?) to be the face of the company. And I don't think it would hurt if they opened up just a bit. Last week I read a feature article on The Verge about Larry Page's design revolution at Google. They must have done it with some cooperation from Google because there were quotes from Google employees throughout the piece. There's been a ton of negative press around Apple these past few months. The perception is it's boring, stale, not innovative and Google and Microsoft are out designing them in the UI space. How long do you allow yourself to be punched in the gut without without fighting back? Tim Cook doing an interview with Brian Williams isn't going to get it done. Apple is allowing perception to become reality. And if we have no news, no product launches until summer/fall the stock will really take a beating this quarter.

    But the rap against Cook was the exact opposite a few months ago, when he came out and apologized for the maps fiasco. Many people felt that he needn't or shouldn't have.

    I am betting that they will address this negative market sentiment sooner than later, especially with the annual shareholder meeting coming up. I would, however, wish for much sooner.
  • Reply 56 of 109

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post





    But the rap against Cook was the exact opposite a few months ago, when he came out and apologized for the maps fiasco. Many people felt that he needn't or shouldn't have.



    I am betting that they will address this negative market sentiment sooner than later, especially with the annual shareholder meeting coming up. I would, however, wish for much sooner.


     


    The shareholders "might" be appeased by a statement but I think the overall negative sentiment will only dissipate with yet another knockout product (not knockoff).

  • Reply 57 of 109
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    But the rap against Cook was the exact opposite a few months ago, when he came out and apologized for the maps fiasco. Many people felt that he needn't or shouldn't have.

    I am betting that they will address this negative market sentiment sooner than later, especially with the annual shareholder meeting coming up. I would, however, wish for much sooner.

    I personally think a new major product category is coming. I think last Autumn they pushed out so much stuff at once that the only things not recently updated are the Mac Pro, ATD (Apple Thunderbolt Display), AirPort routers, and Apple TV.

    I think the HEC (Home Entertainment Center) is the next obvious push. Apple already owns the living room, a definition I have extended to include the actual room because we now have so many portable and handheld devices we are rarely without, but they don't own the HEC and there is a lot they can do in that space.

    We know that Jobs said he "cracked it"… whatever that means. I think it could be an HDTV but if that's the only option then it's a foolish one. I think it's more likely deals with leaders in this area possibly with a profit-sharing plan in place. HD cable boxes are expensive which means Apple would be interested but end users typically don't know this because they rent them. I think this is where Apple could make the most profit and get their product utilized the most.

    But will the cable companies let them in? Didn't seem like they have a chance until recently.

  • Reply 58 of 109

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    1) I do worry about the speakers, especially in the next ATD which I assume will follow the same form and process as the new iMacs. If they have to reduce the sounds quality of the built-in speakers to make the iMacs that tun then to me that it's not ready to go that thin. It would have been nice to get RAM access on the 21.5" iMac and an option for a VESA mount, even it required some additional process but those aren't likely something that matter to many users. I'm fine with TV speakers or box PCs not being good as I've never had expectations and they've always been included as a fallback but notebooks and AIOs should try to give you equal or better audio then the previous model.



    2) I doubt many will think of this but having a lighter machine does make it more portable when you do move it. That's not enough reason for the user to want it to be lighter but when you consider Apple having to ship these products it makes a big difference to them. The box is no longer a cuboid but a trapezium box(?) which only makes sense if they are stacking them in alternative right-side-up and upside-down configurations to save on space during transport. I assume this would also require testing and perhaps new innovations to make sure the product can be safely transported and stored that way. Remember the issues (under Jobs, BTW) where magnetically attached iMac displays were arriving askew and sometimes chipped on the end?


     


     


    In fact, regarding speakers, the issue comes from the fact that they do not want to put them on the front panel screen.... When I had a PC at home, I had a separate sound system (including bass speaker) ---> spaghetti of wires, and the modest speakers of my iMac 27" are now OK for my usage, at low level (if I want to hear at high level, I know I have to use something else ..).


     


    When I recently had to decide on how to listen to music in my new bathroom, I finally disregarded what would have been the obvious solution a few years ago : buy a mini sound system. I just bought X-Mini capsules, which can be connected to an iPhone, or and iPad (possibly through an AirPlay plug). So, yes, I have been influenced by Apple minimalism ...


     


    Lighter also means less material (including rare metals, etc ...) , which is not innocent for the planet when you ship by millions ...


     


    So, yes, I believe Apple plays its (modest) role in the "less is better" philosophy, which might reveal as a condition for human species survival.

  • Reply 59 of 109

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post



    I think the HEC (Home Entertainment Center) is the next obvious push. Apple already owns the living room, a definition I have extended to include the actual room because we now have so many portable and handheld devices we are rarely without, but they don't own the HEC and there is a lot they can do in that space.


     


    When my Wife and I are sitting in the living room, mainly to watch tv, there seems to always be an iPad or an iPhone operating at the same time. I always wish that I was able to check out on an iPad the other shows running at the same time while keeping the show presently being watched at full screen. Being in full control of movie/show previews but at the same time being transparent to the operation of the tv just seems like a natural fit to me. (just one example)


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post



    But will the cable companies let them in? Didn't seem like they have a chance until recently.



     


    Did you read the comment section? Har!

  • Reply 60 of 109
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    But the rap against Cook was the exact opposite a few months ago, when he came out and apologized for the maps fiasco. Many people felt that he needn't or shouldn't have.

    I am betting that they will address this negative market sentiment sooner than later, especially with the annual shareholder meeting coming up. I would, however, wish for much sooner.
    Cook was right to apologize for maps. Forstall over promised and under delivered. When is Apple's shareholder meeting? I fear the quarter could be very bad if Apple is completely silent. But on the other hand if they are silent it could mean they are working on some big stuff, not just updates to existing stuff.
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