It's obviously not a reflection on the quality of the iPhone, it'll be 1 of 2 reasons.
The bosses of the shops know that the iPhone sells itself so they tell their sales staff to recommend other phones because they have to sell a particular number of each type for them to get a bonus. Secondly there is probably more commission selling a Samsung. They are just low wage staff trying to make more money. Even I'd recommend an S3 if there was more money coming to me.
If the customer is happy (most women don't have a clue about phones but they do have a handbag for silly sized phones) then everything is ok, if they take the phone away and aren't happy then they bring it back and swap it for an iPhone.
It's obviously not a reflection on the quality of the iPhone, it'll be 1 of 2 reasons.
The bosses of the shops know that the iPhone sells itself so they tell their sales staff to recommend other phones because they have to sell a particular number of each type for them to get a bonus. Secondly there is probably more commission selling a Samsung. They are just low wage staff trying to make more money. Even I'd recommend an S3 if there was more money coming to me.
If the customer is happy (most women don't have a clue about phones but they do have a handbag for silly sized phones) then everything is ok, if they take the phone away and aren't happy then they bring it back and swap it for an iPhone.
Or reason 3 - The S3 offers better value for anyone not already locked into the iOS ecosystem.
I recently went into an O2 shop. The salesman I spoke to was dismissive of Apple. He said he had NEVER seen an Apple sales rep come into the shop. They had a brochure listing all the phones they were selling, but not a single mention of the iPhone. When I asked why he said that Apple wouldn't allow it. Strange!?
And, he said the best phone they sold was the Samsung! He said he was a convert from the iPhone. He must say the same pitch to dozens each day.
It's obviously not a reflection on the quality of the iPhone, it'll be 1 of 2 reasons.
The bosses of the shops know that the iPhone sells itself so they tell their sales staff to recommend other phones because they have to sell a particular number of each type for them to get a bonus. Secondly there is probably more commission selling a Samsung. They are just low wage staff trying to make more money. Even I'd recommend an S3 if there was more money coming to me.
If the customer is happy (most women don't have a clue about phones but they do have a handbag for silly sized phones) then everything is ok, if they take the phone away and aren't happy then they bring it back and swap it for an iPhone.
Exactly, there will always be those that can't be swayed to buy anything other than a iPhone. If there's 5 iPhones in stock and 30 SGS llls in stock guess which device will getppushed onto a uneducated first time smartphone buyer.
I recently went into an O2 shop. The salesman I spoke to was dismissive of Apple. He said he had NEVER seen an Apple sales rep come into the shop. They had a brochure listing all the phones they were selling, but not a single mention of the iPhone. When I asked why he said that Apple wouldn't allow it. Strange!?
And, he said the best phone they sold was the Samsung! He said he was a convert from the iPhone. He must say the same pitch to dozens each day.
Or maybe he actually is telling the truth? As was said before, not everything is a conspiracy. And Apple is also known to strongly control the marketing of their device, as well as pay some of the lowest commissions.
4 of my wife's family (uncle, cousins) recently went from the iPhone 4 to the Galaxy S3 (and they all prefer the S3), and I went from an iPhone 3G to an HTC (which I also prefer).
And we have what proof, exactly, that any of these retailers pay commission at all, let alone a higher commission for Samsung over Apple phones? Oh yeah... none. Please, don't let that stop you all though from speaking like you know anything on the matter.
Having worked in the telecom and retail industry, I know all carriers in my state pay nothing for handset sales. What they incentivize, however, are accessory sales. Chargers, cases, screen protectors etc. Brand of the phone means nothing, as long as they can bundle it with a car plug and a shiny new case. Some, but not all, carriers also reward selling features, like higher data plans etc. Again, brand doesn't matter, as most smartphone features are available on all makes now thanks the recent plan restructuring.
That some people prefer other brands than Apple, and recommend them to their customers, should not come as a surprise. Insulting them, their ethics, and their country, are all absolutely uncalled for.
And we have what proof, exactly, that any of these retailers pay commission at all, let alone a higher commission for Samsung over Apple phones? Oh yeah... none. Please, don't let that stop you all though from speaking like you know anything on the matter.
Whether they PAY commissions is irrelevant. If they RECEIVE commissions from Samsung or Google or anyone else, they're going to pressure their employees to sell that product.
Whether they PAY commissions is irrelevant. If they RECEIVE commissions from Samsung or Google or anyone else, they're going to pressure their employees to sell that product.
Why would Google pay commissions on Android phone sales?
That makes no sense to me at all, and there's zero evidence they've ever done so anymore than Apple has.
I asked several days ago in another thread if anyone had any proof that commissions on Android or Windows phones were any higher than those paid for Apple, or even if commissions are typically paid to carrier salespeople at all on phone sales. Jrogosta, perhaps you have something that shows there's merit to the claim, or even your implication that Google might be commissions to carriers to push Android phones. In all the time I've been here I've not seen anyone provide that, which increasingly points to it simply being an unsupported talking point.
Of course. Consider that most usage surveys show that iDevices get used on the Internet far more than Android devices. If the customer buys an iPhone, the carrier will actually have to earn its money. If they buy an Android phone, they collect the fees, but the phone isn't tying up the network.
When the surveys include ALL iOS devices (iPads and iPod touch), and access over WiFi, that's true.
When the surveys ONLY include phones or celluar data, it turns out that the internet usage is basically the same. The Chitika ad reports specifically state this about phones (but of course fansites never repeat it). Akamai charts show the same thing:
Quote:
Originally Posted by pembroke
I recently went into an O2 shop. The salesman I spoke to was dismissive of Apple. He said he had NEVER seen an Apple sales rep come into the shop. They had a brochure listing all the phones they were selling, but not a single mention of the iPhone. When I asked why he said that Apple wouldn't allow it. Strange!?
Not strange. Many stores have to get Apple preapproval for advertising and brochures. Apple likes to control how they're presented.
Heck, Apple even likes controlling the ads that other companies present, which is why advertisers have pulled out of Apple's iAds program.
Why would Google pay commissions on Android phone sales?
That makes no sense to me at all, and there's zero evidence they've ever done so anymore than Apple has.
I asked several days ago in another thread if anyone had any proof that commissions on Android or Windows phones were any higher than those paid for Apple, or even if commissions are typically paid to carrier salespeople at all on phone sales. Jrogosta, perhaps you have something that shows there's merit to the claim, or even your implication that Google might be commissions to carriers to push Android phones. In all the time I've been here I've not seen anyone provide that, which increasingly points to it simply being an unsupported talking point.
Regardless of whether sales staff are receiving spiffs or higher commissions for selling Android phones, it's very clear that carriers are heavily pushing Android phones on customers because it benefits them. They pay less for the phones themselves, they get more control over the user experience (including the ability to install key loggers), and all of that adds up to more money for the carriers. So, it doesn't really matter whether sales staff are pushing Android down people's throats because they benefit by supplementing their pay (which is very likely the case) or simply by being allowed to keep their jobs. It's clear, from this and other surveys among other evidence, that this is happening, and it's not necessary to identify the precise ultimate cause to establish that it is, and that it's the primary reason for what market success Android has had. Pretend all you want, but average users really don't love Android, and recent numbers confirm that they switch to iPhone in significant numbers when they are free to do so, and iPhone users don't switch in significant numbers.
Android and Android phones represent the typical crappy experience that carriers have traditionally provided, and consumers don't like it.
On the other hand, there's no reason we should entirely reject the notion that Google is itself incentivizing carriers to push Android phones through financial or other means. That we don't have a smoking gun doesn't mean they aren't. And, in fact we do. Google cut that deal with Verizon to undermine net neutrality, after paying lip service to how important it was for years, which was very likely a deal that involved Verizon agreeing to favor Android, even when they got the iPhone. So, it's not like we don't know that Google is a two-faced liar that will whore out any expressed principle for financial gain.
On the other hand, there's no reason we should entirely reject the notion that Google is itself incentivizing carriers to push Android phones through financial or other means. That we don't have a smoking gun doesn't mean they aren't. And, in fact we do. Google cut that deal with Verizon to undermine net neutrality, after paying lip service to how important it was for years, which was very likely a deal that involved Verizon agreeing to favor Android, even when they got the iPhone. So, it's not like we don't know that Google is a two-faced liar that will whore out any expressed principle for financial gain.
What would be the advantage there? The retailers including carrier stores are likely to sell whatever generates the highest profit. Why do you think there must be some conspiracy behind this when something as simple as better retail margins would be enough to guide their behavior once you're in the store.
.... Why do you think there must be some conspiracy behind this when something as simple as better retail margins would be enough to guide their behavior once you're in the store.
they get more control over the user experience (including the ability to install key loggers)
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
sales staff are pushing Android down people's throats because they benefit by supplementing their pay (which is very likely the case)
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
but average users really don't love Android
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
recent numbers confirm that they switch to iPhone in significant numbers when they are free to do so, and iPhone users don't switch in significant numbers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
Android and Android phones represent the typical crappy experience that carriers have traditionally provided, and consumers don't like it
Citations needed on all of those points please.
Seriously, all these companies are bothered about is the bottom line, nothing else. There doesn't have to be anything evil or sneaky about it, its called business. Do you think a car dealership, or a jewellers, or a travel agent is any different? As with any non-trivial purchase, depending on the advice of the seller to make your decision is a fool's game.
The faces that the cell phone guys make when I pull out an iPhone hilarious. Such disappointment.
They even lied to my family about getting prepay service for an old iPhone. I had to go in there and ask for pre-pay and not bring up the iPhone until the very end.
Seriously, all these companies are bothered about is the bottom line, nothing else. There doesn't have to be anything evil or sneaky about it, its called business. Do you think a car dealership, or a jewellers, or a travel agent is any different? As with any non-trivial purchase, depending on the advice of the seller to make your decision is a fool's game.
To be fair I have seen at least one article in support for a single one of those claims, the one about a significant percentage of Android users trying out an iPhone when their contract ran out. I don't recall the time period for the study so I don't know for sure how current it was, nor even the scope of it. I imagine the OP can clarify that, as well as offer the other citations you requested.
No, they really aren't. Unless you just discovered the Internet or don't usually read any tech coverage, none of this would come as a shock to you.
Oh yeah, sorry, we play by the AI rules here don't we. Anything you or TS say requires no data to back it up, the rest of us have to provide evidence in triplicate signed in blood. Silly me.
I'd like to see the evidence that says carriers install key loggers, average users don't love Android (which is a bit weird - who loves an OS?) and that iOS users don't migrate to Android in significant numbers (which is actually exactly what I am seeing with users I know). I won't hold my breath though.
I just don't understand why you see something evil and underhand in what is a normal business practice.
It's obviously not a reflection on the quality of the iPhone, it'll be 1 of 2 reasons.
The bosses of the shops know that the iPhone sells itself so they tell their sales staff to recommend other phones because they have to sell a particular number of each type for them to get a bonus. Secondly there is probably more commission selling a Samsung. They are just low wage staff trying to make more money. Even I'd recommend an S3 if there was more money coming to me.
If the customer is happy (most women don't have a clue about phones but they do have a handbag for silly sized phones) then everything is ok, if they take the phone away and aren't happy then they bring it back and swap it for an iPhone.
Or a third reason - That the S3 is simply a more capable / better value phone?
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress
What do the British know anyways....
Grow up.
It's obviously not a reflection on the quality of the iPhone, it'll be 1 of 2 reasons.
The bosses of the shops know that the iPhone sells itself so they tell their sales staff to recommend other phones because they have to sell a particular number of each type for them to get a bonus. Secondly there is probably more commission selling a Samsung. They are just low wage staff trying to make more money. Even I'd recommend an S3 if there was more money coming to me.
If the customer is happy (most women don't have a clue about phones but they do have a handbag for silly sized phones) then everything is ok, if they take the phone away and aren't happy then they bring it back and swap it for an iPhone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilution
Grow up.
It's obviously not a reflection on the quality of the iPhone, it'll be 1 of 2 reasons.
The bosses of the shops know that the iPhone sells itself so they tell their sales staff to recommend other phones because they have to sell a particular number of each type for them to get a bonus. Secondly there is probably more commission selling a Samsung. They are just low wage staff trying to make more money. Even I'd recommend an S3 if there was more money coming to me.
If the customer is happy (most women don't have a clue about phones but they do have a handbag for silly sized phones) then everything is ok, if they take the phone away and aren't happy then they bring it back and swap it for an iPhone.
Or reason 3 - The S3 offers better value for anyone not already locked into the iOS ecosystem.
I recently went into an O2 shop. The salesman I spoke to was dismissive of Apple. He said he had NEVER seen an Apple sales rep come into the shop. They had a brochure listing all the phones they were selling, but not a single mention of the iPhone. When I asked why he said that Apple wouldn't allow it. Strange!?
And, he said the best phone they sold was the Samsung! He said he was a convert from the iPhone. He must say the same pitch to dozens each day.
Exactly, there will always be those that can't be swayed to buy anything other than a iPhone. If there's 5 iPhones in stock and 30 SGS llls in stock guess which device will getppushed onto a uneducated first time smartphone buyer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pembroke
I recently went into an O2 shop. The salesman I spoke to was dismissive of Apple. He said he had NEVER seen an Apple sales rep come into the shop. They had a brochure listing all the phones they were selling, but not a single mention of the iPhone. When I asked why he said that Apple wouldn't allow it. Strange!?
And, he said the best phone they sold was the Samsung! He said he was a convert from the iPhone. He must say the same pitch to dozens each day.
Or maybe he actually is telling the truth? As was said before, not everything is a conspiracy. And Apple is also known to strongly control the marketing of their device, as well as pay some of the lowest commissions.
4 of my wife's family (uncle, cousins) recently went from the iPhone 4 to the Galaxy S3 (and they all prefer the S3), and I went from an iPhone 3G to an HTC (which I also prefer).
Having worked in the telecom and retail industry, I know all carriers in my state pay nothing for handset sales. What they incentivize, however, are accessory sales. Chargers, cases, screen protectors etc. Brand of the phone means nothing, as long as they can bundle it with a car plug and a shiny new case. Some, but not all, carriers also reward selling features, like higher data plans etc. Again, brand doesn't matter, as most smartphone features are available on all makes now thanks the recent plan restructuring.
That some people prefer other brands than Apple, and recommend them to their customers, should not come as a surprise. Insulting them, their ethics, and their country, are all absolutely uncalled for.
Whether they PAY commissions is irrelevant. If they RECEIVE commissions from Samsung or Google or anyone else, they're going to pressure their employees to sell that product.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Whether they PAY commissions is irrelevant. If they RECEIVE commissions from Samsung or Google or anyone else, they're going to pressure their employees to sell that product.
Why would Google pay commissions on Android phone sales?
That makes no sense to me at all, and there's zero evidence they've ever done so anymore than Apple has.
I asked several days ago in another thread if anyone had any proof that commissions on Android or Windows phones were any higher than those paid for Apple, or even if commissions are typically paid to carrier salespeople at all on phone sales. Jrogosta, perhaps you have something that shows there's merit to the claim, or even your implication that Google might be commissions to carriers to push Android phones. In all the time I've been here I've not seen anyone provide that, which increasingly points to it simply being an unsupported talking point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Of course. Consider that most usage surveys show that iDevices get used on the Internet far more than Android devices. If the customer buys an iPhone, the carrier will actually have to earn its money. If they buy an Android phone, they collect the fees, but the phone isn't tying up the network.
When the surveys include ALL iOS devices (iPads and iPod touch), and access over WiFi, that's true.
When the surveys ONLY include phones or celluar data, it turns out that the internet usage is basically the same. The Chitika ad reports specifically state this about phones (but of course fansites never repeat it). Akamai charts show the same thing:
Quote:
Originally Posted by pembroke
I recently went into an O2 shop. The salesman I spoke to was dismissive of Apple. He said he had NEVER seen an Apple sales rep come into the shop. They had a brochure listing all the phones they were selling, but not a single mention of the iPhone. When I asked why he said that Apple wouldn't allow it. Strange!?
Not strange. Many stores have to get Apple preapproval for advertising and brochures. Apple likes to control how they're presented.
Heck, Apple even likes controlling the ads that other companies present, which is why advertisers have pulled out of Apple's iAds program.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress
What do the British know anyways....
They know not to put an unnecessary "s" on the end of "anyway".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Why would Google pay commissions on Android phone sales?
That makes no sense to me at all, and there's zero evidence they've ever done so anymore than Apple has.
I asked several days ago in another thread if anyone had any proof that commissions on Android or Windows phones were any higher than those paid for Apple, or even if commissions are typically paid to carrier salespeople at all on phone sales. Jrogosta, perhaps you have something that shows there's merit to the claim, or even your implication that Google might be commissions to carriers to push Android phones. In all the time I've been here I've not seen anyone provide that, which increasingly points to it simply being an unsupported talking point.
Regardless of whether sales staff are receiving spiffs or higher commissions for selling Android phones, it's very clear that carriers are heavily pushing Android phones on customers because it benefits them. They pay less for the phones themselves, they get more control over the user experience (including the ability to install key loggers), and all of that adds up to more money for the carriers. So, it doesn't really matter whether sales staff are pushing Android down people's throats because they benefit by supplementing their pay (which is very likely the case) or simply by being allowed to keep their jobs. It's clear, from this and other surveys among other evidence, that this is happening, and it's not necessary to identify the precise ultimate cause to establish that it is, and that it's the primary reason for what market success Android has had. Pretend all you want, but average users really don't love Android, and recent numbers confirm that they switch to iPhone in significant numbers when they are free to do so, and iPhone users don't switch in significant numbers.
Android and Android phones represent the typical crappy experience that carriers have traditionally provided, and consumers don't like it.
On the other hand, there's no reason we should entirely reject the notion that Google is itself incentivizing carriers to push Android phones through financial or other means. That we don't have a smoking gun doesn't mean they aren't. And, in fact we do. Google cut that deal with Verizon to undermine net neutrality, after paying lip service to how important it was for years, which was very likely a deal that involved Verizon agreeing to favor Android, even when they got the iPhone. So, it's not like we don't know that Google is a two-faced liar that will whore out any expressed principle for financial gain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
On the other hand, there's no reason we should entirely reject the notion that Google is itself incentivizing carriers to push Android phones through financial or other means. That we don't have a smoking gun doesn't mean they aren't. And, in fact we do. Google cut that deal with Verizon to undermine net neutrality, after paying lip service to how important it was for years, which was very likely a deal that involved Verizon agreeing to favor Android, even when they got the iPhone. So, it's not like we don't know that Google is a two-faced liar that will whore out any expressed principle for financial gain.
What would be the advantage there? The retailers including carrier stores are likely to sell whatever generates the highest profit. Why do you think there must be some conspiracy behind this when something as simple as better retail margins would be enough to guide their behavior once you're in the store.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm
.... Why do you think there must be some conspiracy behind this when something as simple as better retail margins would be enough to guide their behavior once you're in the store.
Three letters: R, D, and F.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
they get more control over the user experience (including the ability to install key loggers)
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
sales staff are pushing Android down people's throats because they benefit by supplementing their pay (which is very likely the case)
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
but average users really don't love Android
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
recent numbers confirm that they switch to iPhone in significant numbers when they are free to do so, and iPhone users don't switch in significant numbers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
Android and Android phones represent the typical crappy experience that carriers have traditionally provided, and consumers don't like it
Citations needed on all of those points please.
Seriously, all these companies are bothered about is the bottom line, nothing else. There doesn't have to be anything evil or sneaky about it, its called business. Do you think a car dealership, or a jewellers, or a travel agent is any different? As with any non-trivial purchase, depending on the advice of the seller to make your decision is a fool's game.
The faces that the cell phone guys make when I pull out an iPhone hilarious. Such disappointment.
They even lied to my family about getting prepay service for an old iPhone. I had to go in there and ask for pre-pay and not bring up the iPhone until the very end.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefoid
Citations needed on all of those points please.
No, they really aren't. Unless you just discovered the Internet or don't usually read any tech coverage, none of this would come as a shock to you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefoid
Citations needed on all of those points please.
Seriously, all these companies are bothered about is the bottom line, nothing else. There doesn't have to be anything evil or sneaky about it, its called business. Do you think a car dealership, or a jewellers, or a travel agent is any different? As with any non-trivial purchase, depending on the advice of the seller to make your decision is a fool's game.
To be fair I have seen at least one article in support for a single one of those claims, the one about a significant percentage of Android users trying out an iPhone when their contract ran out. I don't recall the time period for the study so I don't know for sure how current it was, nor even the scope of it. I imagine the OP can clarify that, as well as offer the other citations you requested.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
No, they really aren't. Unless you just discovered the Internet or don't usually read any tech coverage, none of this would come as a shock to you.
Oh yeah, sorry, we play by the AI rules here don't we. Anything you or TS say requires no data to back it up, the rest of us have to provide evidence in triplicate signed in blood. Silly me.
I'd like to see the evidence that says carriers install key loggers, average users don't love Android (which is a bit weird - who loves an OS?) and that iOS users don't migrate to Android in significant numbers (which is actually exactly what I am seeing with users I know). I won't hold my breath though.
I just don't understand why you see something evil and underhand in what is a normal business practice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by facethefire
I have been a long time apple devotee but...
Just joined, one post, false flag intro followed by uniformly negative view of iPhone and uniformly positive view of Android.
Credibility: zero.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilution
Grow up.
It's obviously not a reflection on the quality of the iPhone, it'll be 1 of 2 reasons.
The bosses of the shops know that the iPhone sells itself so they tell their sales staff to recommend other phones because they have to sell a particular number of each type for them to get a bonus. Secondly there is probably more commission selling a Samsung. They are just low wage staff trying to make more money. Even I'd recommend an S3 if there was more money coming to me.
If the customer is happy (most women don't have a clue about phones but they do have a handbag for silly sized phones) then everything is ok, if they take the phone away and aren't happy then they bring it back and swap it for an iPhone.
Or a third reason - That the S3 is simply a more capable / better value phone?