Um, my statement can't be possible without a drop in electronics prices. I'm being more specific than simply saying they are getting a better deal with the tech but saying they are getting newer tech that is doubling the capacity of NAND for about the same price as it was previously. It's also likely how we got the 128GB iPad. This wasn't possible in large quantities last year.
Or maybe it's simply process improvements and lower prices for the SAME technology. You can't rule that out on the basis of what's known.
Seems to be. But I could have sworn they had portables with soldered RAM before…
Many years ago, my parents had a Dell with soldered RAM, but it still had a slot to add more. I think it was manufactured 1999 or so. The ultraportable market pre MacBook Air might have had a lot of them, I don't know.
So what is the problem with focusing on the fact that they where overpriced at introduction? He said nothing wrong and is just highlighting the facts. Beyond that, in Apples case, they do it to moderate demand until production catches up. The only real problem here is that people make excuses for Apple or complain loudly, instead of just grasping what is going on and acting intelligently. It just isn't smart to be an early adopter of new technology if you aren't willing to pay the cost.
The problem, it sure looked like uneducated, self-entitled whining. "Overpriced" isn't a statement of fact, it's an opinion. I've also pointed out that Apple isn't the only tech company that charges an early adopter premium, only him "stating" (complaining) that about Apple doing it sounds pretty selective to me.
The problem, it sure looked like uneducated, self-entitled whining. "Overpriced" isn't a statement of fact, it's an opinion. I've also pointed out that Apple isn't the only tech company that charges an early adopter premium, only him "stating" (complaining) that about Apple doing it sounds pretty selective to me.
And there's a huge difference in stating "Macs are overpriced" and "This specific model of Mac with an integrated GPU is overpriced".
Many years ago, my parents had a Dell with soldered RAM, but it still had a slot to add more. I think it was manufactured 1999 or so. The ultraportable market pre MacBook Air might have had a lot of them, I don't know.
There were, I had an Asus M2 laptop in 2002. It was a super-thin laptop by the standards at the time. It has 128 MB soldered onto the mobo, and a slot to add more RAM later.
There were, I had an Asus M2 laptop in 2002. It was a super-thin laptop by the standards at the time. It has 128 MB soldered onto the mobo, and a slot to add more RAM later.
I'm pretty sure I had a Toshiba laptop with soldered RAM at one point, too. However, it was somewhat different - a base level of RAM soldered onto the board (maybe 1 MB way back then) and then a single slot so you could add more.
Or maybe it's simply process improvements and lower prices for the SAME technology. You can't rule that out on the basis of what's known.
It's a process change, which is what I stated, then it is DIFFERENT technology to make that change. I made no comment about the NAND being different in any other way expect the lithography. As for the price, it could be cheaper it could be more expensive or it could be exactly the same. I made no comment on that except to say around the same price.
Like I said it makes more sense at $1500 than $1700. The specs between the old price $1700 13" rMBP and the $2100 15" rMBP made the 13" a very very bad choice for what you get for youre $. imo it was overprice even for an Apple product.
I completely agree with you, which is why I opted for the 15" when I would have preferred a 13" form-factor - at the time. I am so glad I did. The 15" is the same weight as my old 13" and is only a few mm deeper, front to back, meaning it still fits my carry-on. A brilliant, though expensive, bit of gear.
As for the update, wow, 2.3 to 2.4 ghz - wish I had waited!.....not.
Quicker price drop from initial release of Macbook Air (took a couple years to drop price on them).
That being said, $200 is not much of a drop...I suppose for Apple it is.
I just bought a refurb (July 2012 model) MBP 13" 2.9-i7 with 750 ODD & 8gb RAM. So the extra $1330 i could have spent on this isn't much to change my mind.
What Apple needs to do is drop the prices of SDD upgrades...then perhaps the sales will go up. Charging $300 & $700 extra for the added SDD is robbery. Especially if you can't later-on upgrade yourself. My MBP is upgradable to Fusion Drive (should i drop my DVD drive) and RAM upgrades to 16gb (of which is not configurable in the Apple custom build section). And actually, I really wanted the MB Air with the same specs, but the refurb page didn't offer one in 512gb SDD and a brand new one was $800 more than mine.
So no, I don't regret a single thing. $1,269 (mine) VS. $2,599 (price drop Retina with same specs)...not a tough choice here. I land live without Retina and mine can be converted to Fusion Drive for about $300.
It's a process change, which is what I stated, then it is DIFFERENT technology to make that change.
Says who? Perhaps they've simply gotten more efficient. Maybe you haven't noticed, but semiconductor prices drop - even when nothing else changes. An Intel i7 Sandy bridge today is far less expensive than it was last year. The price of RAM has been dropping for years - even if you look at identical RAM. NAND has been dropping for years - even looking at exactly the same part.
EVEN IF there are no changes in the SSD (same process, same size, same design, same packaging), the price this year is likely to be lower than the price last year.
Says who? Perhaps they've simply gotten more efficient. Maybe you haven't noticed, but semiconductor prices drop - even when nothing else changes. An Intel i7 Sandy bridge today is far less expensive than it was last year. The price of RAM has been dropping for years - even if you look at identical RAM. NAND has been dropping for years - even looking at exactly the same part.
EVEN IF there are no changes in the SSD (same process, same size, same design, same packaging), the price this year is likely to be lower than the price last year.
Maybe, but based on Apple's pricing history and the other factors mentioned I don't think a potential price drop in Intel's Core processors is the reason for any of this.
And I have no idea what your "Says who?" means. Clearly these are my words about how I think the change has happened, unless you are referring to the process change which is a change and therefore inherently different.
This is not a new trend. MacBook Air started off more expensive than it is today, when SSD drives were not as cheap.
Having said that, I do believe the marvels of Retina Display on a laptop are totally under-appreciated. I wish it was available on more Windows laptops, as I need to work on both Windows and Mac OS.
It took years for the MBA's price to drop, not months.
Maybe, but based on Apple's pricing history and the other factors mentioned I don't think a potential price drop in Intel's Core processors is the reason for any of this.
And I have no idea what your "Says who?" means. Clearly these are my words about how I think the change has happened, unless you are referring to the process change which is a change and therefore inherently different.
I was referring to your repeated assertion that a lower price means that the process has changed - and your claim that there's no other explanation.
Clearly, prices can drop even for the same product WITHOUT any product or process change, so your statement is obviously false.
I was referring to your repeated assertion that a lower price means that the process has changed - and your claim that there's no other explanation.
Yes, my assertion is what I think and you've done nothing to change my mind by presenting other evidence that would make me see it differently. Instead you seem trying to say I'm not allowed to think that as if I've stated it as an undeniable fact.
Clearly, prices can drop even for the same product WITHOUT any product or process change, so your statement is obviously false.
They can but based on all the info previously presented I don't think that is even close to the most likely reason.
Yes, my assertion is what I think and you've done nothing to change my mind by presenting other evidence that would make me see it differently. Instead you seem trying to say I'm not allowed to think that as if I've stated it as an undeniable fact.
Wrong. You said that there was no other explanation.
Wrong. You said that there was no other explanation.
I gave an alternative explanation.
Ergo, you were wrong.
I ran back through the quotes to see where he said that, and I found "I don't see any other explanation". That doesn't sound like "is no other explanation".
Wrong. You said that there was no other explanation.
I gave an alternative explanation.
Ergo, you were wrong.
I can't find me writing "no other explanation" once in this thread or making any comparable statement that would exclude anyone else from having an opinion or asserting my opinion as an incontrovertible truth
Shall we examine the post you decided to jump on?
If that's the case thenI don't see any other conclusion than the are now using a smaller node process to double the NAND density.
But why the 64GB MBA still holding on? I assume that will be gone when they get updated.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
Hmm...must not have been selling as well as they hoped?
Most likely they've run out of early adopters and have adjusted the prices accordingly.
Standard MO for every tech company since the beginning of time.
Edit: I see now they changed it into a BTO option. My fault. I like that.
Or maybe it's simply process improvements and lower prices for the SAME technology. You can't rule that out on the basis of what's known.
Originally Posted by Rogifan
Hmm...must not have been selling as well as they hoped?
Originally Posted by crazy_mac_lover
AAPL will further drop as this news show Apple MacBook Pro demand is weaker than expected .
Originally Posted by karas11
This is what I expected...
At least Apple start to clean up their inventories.
I think soon, Apple will release without Retina screen with new body at $1199 and $1799.
I guess that will be part of Intel Haswell CPU update.
Apple should drop Air 11" model as well. Air 13" 128GB SSD should be $1099 starting point.
11" Air has no place to go.. iPad now has 128GB SSD(Wifi+4G) price very close to 11"Air 64GB model.
Originally Posted by Rayz
Most likely they've run out of early adopters and have adjusted the prices accordingly.
We need something on these. "/s", "¡"… something.
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie
I believe also the first with the RAM soldered to the MB.
Seems to be. But I could have sworn they had portables with soldered RAM before…
Many years ago, my parents had a Dell with soldered RAM, but it still had a slot to add more. I think it was manufactured 1999 or so. The ultraportable market pre MacBook Air might have had a lot of them, I don't know.
The problem, it sure looked like uneducated, self-entitled whining. "Overpriced" isn't a statement of fact, it's an opinion. I've also pointed out that Apple isn't the only tech company that charges an early adopter premium, only him "stating" (complaining) that about Apple doing it sounds pretty selective to me.
Originally Posted by JeffDM
The problem, it sure looked like uneducated, self-entitled whining. "Overpriced" isn't a statement of fact, it's an opinion. I've also pointed out that Apple isn't the only tech company that charges an early adopter premium, only him "stating" (complaining) that about Apple doing it sounds pretty selective to me.
And there's a huge difference in stating "Macs are overpriced" and "This specific model of Mac with an integrated GPU is overpriced".
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
Many years ago, my parents had a Dell with soldered RAM, but it still had a slot to add more. I think it was manufactured 1999 or so. The ultraportable market pre MacBook Air might have had a lot of them, I don't know.
There were, I had an Asus M2 laptop in 2002. It was a super-thin laptop by the standards at the time. It has 128 MB soldered onto the mobo, and a slot to add more RAM later.
I'm pretty sure I had a Toshiba laptop with soldered RAM at one point, too. However, it was somewhat different - a base level of RAM soldered onto the board (maybe 1 MB way back then) and then a single slot so you could add more.
It's a process change, which is what I stated, then it is DIFFERENT technology to make that change. I made no comment about the NAND being different in any other way expect the lithography. As for the price, it could be cheaper it could be more expensive or it could be exactly the same. I made no comment on that except to say around the same price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou
Like I said it makes more sense at $1500 than $1700. The specs between the old price $1700 13" rMBP and the $2100 15" rMBP made the 13" a very very bad choice for what you get for youre $. imo it was overprice even for an Apple product.
I completely agree with you, which is why I opted for the 15" when I would have preferred a 13" form-factor - at the time. I am so glad I did. The 15" is the same weight as my old 13" and is only a few mm deeper, front to back, meaning it still fits my carry-on. A brilliant, though expensive, bit of gear.
As for the update, wow, 2.3 to 2.4 ghz - wish I had waited!.....not.
Quicker price drop from initial release of Macbook Air (took a couple years to drop price on them).
That being said, $200 is not much of a drop...I suppose for Apple it is.
I just bought a refurb (July 2012 model) MBP 13" 2.9-i7 with 750 ODD & 8gb RAM. So the extra $1330 i could have spent on this isn't much to change my mind.
What Apple needs to do is drop the prices of SDD upgrades...then perhaps the sales will go up. Charging $300 & $700 extra for the added SDD is robbery. Especially if you can't later-on upgrade yourself. My MBP is upgradable to Fusion Drive (should i drop my DVD drive) and RAM upgrades to 16gb (of which is not configurable in the Apple custom build section). And actually, I really wanted the MB Air with the same specs, but the refurb page didn't offer one in 512gb SDD and a brand new one was $800 more than mine.
So no, I don't regret a single thing. $1,269 (mine) VS. $2,599 (price drop Retina with same specs)...not a tough choice here. I land live without Retina and mine can be converted to Fusion Drive for about $300.
Says who? Perhaps they've simply gotten more efficient. Maybe you haven't noticed, but semiconductor prices drop - even when nothing else changes. An Intel i7 Sandy bridge today is far less expensive than it was last year. The price of RAM has been dropping for years - even if you look at identical RAM. NAND has been dropping for years - even looking at exactly the same part.
EVEN IF there are no changes in the SSD (same process, same size, same design, same packaging), the price this year is likely to be lower than the price last year.
Maybe, but based on Apple's pricing history and the other factors mentioned I don't think a potential price drop in Intel's Core processors is the reason for any of this.
And I have no idea what your "Says who?" means. Clearly these are my words about how I think the change has happened, unless you are referring to the process change which is a change and therefore inherently different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent
This is not a new trend. MacBook Air started off more expensive than it is today, when SSD drives were not as cheap.
Having said that, I do believe the marvels of Retina Display on a laptop are totally under-appreciated. I wish it was available on more Windows laptops, as I need to work on both Windows and Mac OS.
It took years for the MBA's price to drop, not months.
I was referring to your repeated assertion that a lower price means that the process has changed - and your claim that there's no other explanation.
Clearly, prices can drop even for the same product WITHOUT any product or process change, so your statement is obviously false.
Yes, my assertion is what I think and you've done nothing to change my mind by presenting other evidence that would make me see it differently. Instead you seem trying to say I'm not allowed to think that as if I've stated it as an undeniable fact.
They can but based on all the info previously presented I don't think that is even close to the most likely reason.
Wrong. You said that there was no other explanation.
I gave an alternative explanation.
Ergo, you were wrong.
Originally Posted by jragosta
Wrong. You said that there was no other explanation.
I gave an alternative explanation.
Ergo, you were wrong.
I ran back through the quotes to see where he said that, and I found "I don't see any other explanation". That doesn't sound like "is no other explanation".
I can't find me writing "no other explanation" once in this thread or making any comparable statement that would exclude anyone else from having an opinion or asserting my opinion as an incontrovertible truth
Shall we examine the post you decided to jump on?