This is a brilliant simple idea. This was not possible with the 35mm camera. And it was difficult to impossible for digital camera to do because of lack of processing power. So Apple has cleverly utilized the resources of a mobile device to do things that was previously impossible. This is what I like of this company.
Galaxy S3 is one example. Burst mode, with "Best Photo" turned on.
Takes eight images (one every 0.3 secs).
Then it determines the "best photo" based on lighting, subject smiles, and least amount of blur... and puts a "thumbs up" on a mini of that image. You can decide otherwise and choose a different shot to save, if you were after a different effect. (Go to about 0:55 below if you want to skip the initial settings tutorial.)
This is different from Apple invention. The eight photos are taken after user press the camera button. I smell that Samsung will try to steal Apple invention and claim that it innovated it first.
This is different from Apple invention. The eight photos are taken after user press the camera button. I smell that Samsung will try to steal Apple invention and claim that it innovated it first.
Actually, burst mode will stop at 8 shots. Lets you pick best shot. Saves it. Disposes the other 7 shots after saving.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzeshan
This is a brilliant simple idea. This was not possible with the 35mm camera. And it was difficult to impossible for digital camera to do because of lack of processing power. So Apple has cleverly utilized the resources of a mobile device to do things that was previously impossible. This is what I like of this company.
Whatever works! Because of weakness in my arms, I am more likely to get a blurry picture from my iPhone 5 than a sharp one. When it's a bright scene, obviously there is less of a problem. I'm wondering why they haven't been able to institute some form of Image Stabilization technology to make it easier for everyone to get sharper images, even in less than ideal lighting situations!
As a sidebar, the Olympus OMD 4:3rds camera is without doubt THE best at image stabilization. I will be likely selling all my Nikon gear and switching to this for serious photography, particularly because of my condition. I love my Nikon D7000 setup, but I have to go to high ISOs for everyday shooting if I want to be sure my images are sharp. This introduces "graininess" that normal ISOs wouldn't. Not a good trade off.
Can such algorithms make an image as good as one that was not blurry in the first place? Too much for the imagination? I doubt it.
There's also this one. Not as good picture quality yet as even a top-notch camera phone, but it's expected to get better fast with a bit more processing power behind it.
This is different from Apple invention. The eight photos are taken after user press the camera button.
I see what you're saying. One captures photos before the shutter is clicked, and the other captures after.
Perhaps someone should get a patent on a method that does both, which would take care of the user clicking in anticipation of an action.
I smell that Samsung will try to steal Apple invention and claim that it innovated it first.
Oh for goodness' sake. This is not exactly a revolutionary invention, considering the number of apps that allow choosing still photos from a video. This variation simply requires the willingness to chew up resources during a time when the user normally doesn't think anything is happening. Personally, I'd rather let it know when I'm close to being ready.
Heck, it's basically doing the same thing that a DVR does when you turn it on... it starts recording the channel that you're flipped to, in case you later decide to pause, or go back a bit. I'd even guess that could've been the inspiration.
Apple could simply make use of the ISP already embedded on all A5 and above SoCs - would mean insignificant power consumption while processing the images.
Cameras in cell phones are tiny compared to what's in dedicated cameras. They cannot possibly capture the same amount of light and as such "shutter" speed will (most likely) always be much slower. Hence the reason for trying to develop other ways to capture higher quality images.
As far as cache space, we're probably talking about micro seconds of photo capturing before the person presses the capture button.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
It's a tiny lens. Very short 'shutter speeds' (in quotes because it doesn't actually use a shutter) may not allow for enough light capture.
So instead of increasing the lens size, or improving light gathering, let's try to enhance a poor exposure? I can see software assist as the filers assist when high ISO is used, however, the idea is always to first capture the best exposure.
I know that. I have read that article carefully. Apple's invention is revolutionary. It take the shots BEFORE you press the camera button.
Quote:
In a patent filing discovered on Thursday, Apple describes a digital camera implementation that continuously captures and stores images in a buffer until the user releases the shutter, at which time the system automatically selects the best picture based on a number of predetermined variables.
I think you caught a mistake in the writing. Because later in the article it said
"Depending on the quality of the image, the processing logic can select the photo from either the buffer or concurrent to when the shutter is pressed."
lol why not just have a faster shutter speed? If you are going to spend all that die space for cache and processing a bad image, why not just increase the speed of your shutter and the ability of your sensor to gather light?
Blurry images are due to motion. Motion is offset by shutter speed. Fast shutter speed can be achieved when enough light is gathered (unless you want black images).
Lots of good reading on Canon's website. (I'm sure Nikon also has some great articles)
Obviously because they are ALREADY taking the most advantage of the image sensor they have. What this does is improve what the user captures.
I'm wondering if they might also be doing a bit of "HDR" -- changing focus and exposure to get more value on a combined image. I know what we see so far is just "find the most in focus of the samples." It's a bit like a video capture and you use the buffer to make them all photo quality for a brief moment.
It's an improvement -- so what's to complain about?
It would be nice to combine this with the technology that determines when people's eyes are open, so if two pictures are comparably sharp but one has a subject with open eyes, it chooses that one.
Always check the claims to see what the patent is really about:
"1. A method comprising: continuously, after entering a mode, capturing a sequence of images with an image capturing device; continuously, after entering the mode, storing a predetermined number of the sequence of images in a buffer; receiving a user request to capture an image; and in response to the user request, automatically selecting one of the buffered images based on an image contrast parameter that compares pixel values within each buffered image, wherein the sequence of images were captured prior to receiving the user request."
So, it captures pictures after entering a certain mode, and before the user touches the screen.
The main purpose noted later on, is to avoid shutter shake caused by tapping the screen shutter button.
I think it might end being kind of peculiar to use at first, because most of us expect the pictures to be taken AT or AFTER we click, not during the time beforehand.
I'm shocked they've even applied for this patent. I use to work for Apple and now work for *cough*. I'm somewhat of a Apple fan but as a camera engineer I have to say this method is extremely obvious. It pops up every single time deblurring comes up in discussions with customers. 3 times this year alone.
This is a natural consequence of implementations of NSL and burst in fact. You're already capturing repeated stills... picking the best one is not a patent IMHO. The method of determining which one is the best could be patentable but I think almost everyone that works in the field could figure that one out too...
FYI "blurry picture clearing technology" is a figment of Hollywood's imagination. If it was easy I could sell you a 1MP camera with no lens. It'll take a crappy blurry picture but you could just "blurry picture clear" it into a 10MP sharp image.
The best thing to do is avoid it in the first place which is what this patent is all about.
I think it might end being kind of peculiar to use at first, because most of us expect the pictures to be taken AT or AFTER we click, not during the time beforehand.
I think the opposite. You press the camera button thinking you want the picture shown on the screen. Because of the time taken to press the button and the shutter delay all cameras always take the picture AFTER the click. And often it is not what is wanted.
I'm shocked they've even applied for this patent. I use to work for Apple and now work for *cough*. I'm somewhat of a Apple fan but as a camera engineer I have to say this method is extremely obvious. It pops up every single time deblurring comes up in discussions with customers. 3 times this year alone.
This is a natural consequence of implementations of NSL and burst in fact. You're already capturing repeated stills... picking the best one is not a patent IMHO. The method of determining which one is the best could be patentable but I think almost everyone that works in the field could figure that one out too...
FYI "blurry picture clearing technology" is a figment of Hollywood's imagination. If it was easy I could sell you a 1MP camera with no lens. It'll take a crappy blurry picture but you could just "blurry picture clear" it into a 10MP sharp image.
The best thing to do is avoid it in the first place which is what this patent is all about.
I think whether it is patentable is whether it is prior art. If no company has implemented it then it is not a prior art. Samsung's Burst Mode is clearly not a prior art.
This is different from Apple invention. The eight photos are taken after user press the camera button. I smell that Samsung will try to steal Apple invention and claim that it innovated it first.
No really? I guess you want it to constantly take pictures.
Comments
This is a brilliant simple idea. This was not possible with the 35mm camera. And it was difficult to impossible for digital camera to do because of lack of processing power. So Apple has cleverly utilized the resources of a mobile device to do things that was previously impossible. This is what I like of this company.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling
Galaxy S3 is one example. Burst mode, with "Best Photo" turned on.
Takes eight images (one every 0.3 secs).
Then it determines the "best photo" based on lighting, subject smiles, and least amount of blur... and puts a "thumbs up" on a mini of that image. You can decide otherwise and choose a different shot to save, if you were after a different effect. (Go to about 0:55 below if you want to skip the initial settings tutorial.)
This is different from Apple invention. The eight photos are taken after user press the camera button. I smell that Samsung will try to steal Apple invention and claim that it innovated it first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzeshan
This is different from Apple invention. The eight photos are taken after user press the camera button. I smell that Samsung will try to steal Apple invention and claim that it innovated it first.
Actually, burst mode will stop at 8 shots. Lets you pick best shot. Saves it. Disposes the other 7 shots after saving.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzeshan
This is a brilliant simple idea. This was not possible with the 35mm camera. And it was difficult to impossible for digital camera to do because of lack of processing power. So Apple has cleverly utilized the resources of a mobile device to do things that was previously impossible. This is what I like of this company.
http://www.samsung.com/in/promotions/galaxycamera/#shoot camera with processing power.
Originally Posted by bleh1234
http://www.samsung.com/in/promotions/galaxycamera/#shoot camera with processing power.
And this disproves his point how?
As a sidebar, the Olympus OMD 4:3rds camera is without doubt THE best at image stabilization. I will be likely selling all my Nikon gear and switching to this for serious photography, particularly because of my condition. I love my Nikon D7000 setup, but I have to go to high ISOs for everyday shooting if I want to be sure my images are sharp. This introduces "graininess" that normal ISOs wouldn't. Not a good trade off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleh1234
Actually, burst mode will stop at 8 shots. Lets you pick best shot. Saves it. Disposes the other 7 shots after saving.
I know that. I have read that article carefully. Apple's invention is revolutionary. It take the shots BEFORE you press the camera button.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent
Can such algorithms make an image as good as one that was not blurry in the first place? Too much for the imagination? I doubt it.
There's also this one. Not as good picture quality yet as even a top-notch camera phone, but it's expected to get better fast with a bit more processing power behind it.
http://www.businessweek.com/videos/2013-02-12/how-the-lytro-camera-puts-blurry-photos-into-focus
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzeshan
This is different from Apple invention. The eight photos are taken after user press the camera button.
I see what you're saying. One captures photos before the shutter is clicked, and the other captures after.
Perhaps someone should get a patent on a method that does both, which would take care of the user clicking in anticipation of an action.
I smell that Samsung will try to steal Apple invention and claim that it innovated it first.
Oh for goodness' sake. This is not exactly a revolutionary invention, considering the number of apps that allow choosing still photos from a video. This variation simply requires the willingness to chew up resources during a time when the user normally doesn't think anything is happening. Personally, I'd rather let it know when I'm close to being ready.
Heck, it's basically doing the same thing that a DVR does when you turn it on... it starts recording the channel that you're flipped to, in case you later decide to pause, or go back a bit. I'd even guess that could've been the inspiration.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleh1234
Actually, burst mode will stop at 8 shots. Lets you pick best shot. Saves it. Disposes the other 7 shots after saving.
http://www.samsung.com/in/promotions/galaxycamera/#shoot camera with processing power.
There's a much better description of it here:
http://samsunggeeks.com/2012/08/08/galaxy-s3-best-photo-what-is-it-and-how-to-use-it/#.UR0z5h3UkSE
A bit fanboyish but still explains it pretty well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin
Apple could simply make use of the ISP already embedded on all A5 and above SoCs - would mean insignificant power consumption while processing the images.
Cameras in cell phones are tiny compared to what's in dedicated cameras. They cannot possibly capture the same amount of light and as such "shutter" speed will (most likely) always be much slower. Hence the reason for trying to develop other ways to capture higher quality images.
As far as cache space, we're probably talking about micro seconds of photo capturing before the person presses the capture button.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
It's a tiny lens. Very short 'shutter speeds' (in quotes because it doesn't actually use a shutter) may not allow for enough light capture.
So instead of increasing the lens size, or improving light gathering, let's try to enhance a poor exposure? I can see software assist as the filers assist when high ISO is used, however, the idea is always to first capture the best exposure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzeshan
I know that. I have read that article carefully. Apple's invention is revolutionary. It take the shots BEFORE you press the camera button.
Quote:
In a patent filing discovered on Thursday, Apple describes a digital camera implementation that continuously captures and stores images in a buffer until the user releases the shutter, at which time the system automatically selects the best picture based on a number of predetermined variables.
The button is pressed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleh1234
The button is pressed.
I think you caught a mistake in the writing. Because later in the article it said
"Depending on the quality of the image, the processing logic can select the photo from either the buffer or concurrent to when the shutter is pressed."
lol why not just have a faster shutter speed? If you are going to spend all that die space for cache and processing a bad image, why not just increase the speed of your shutter and the ability of your sensor to gather light?
Blurry images are due to motion. Motion is offset by shutter speed. Fast shutter speed can be achieved when enough light is gathered (unless you want black images).
Lots of good reading on Canon's website. (I'm sure Nikon also has some great articles)
Obviously because they are ALREADY taking the most advantage of the image sensor they have. What this does is improve what the user captures.I'm wondering if they might also be doing a bit of "HDR" -- changing focus and exposure to get more value on a combined image. I know what we see so far is just "find the most in focus of the samples." It's a bit like a video capture and you use the buffer to make them all photo quality for a brief moment.
It's an improvement -- so what's to complain about?
Always check the claims to see what the patent is really about:
"1. A method comprising: continuously, after entering a mode, capturing a sequence of images with an image capturing device; continuously, after entering the mode, storing a predetermined number of the sequence of images in a buffer; receiving a user request to capture an image; and in response to the user request, automatically selecting one of the buffered images based on an image contrast parameter that compares pixel values within each buffered image, wherein the sequence of images were captured prior to receiving the user request."
So, it captures pictures after entering a certain mode, and before the user touches the screen.
The main purpose noted later on, is to avoid shutter shake caused by tapping the screen shutter button.
I think it might end being kind of peculiar to use at first, because most of us expect the pictures to be taken AT or AFTER we click, not during the time beforehand.
This is a natural consequence of implementations of NSL and burst in fact. You're already capturing repeated stills... picking the best one is not a patent IMHO. The method of determining which one is the best could be patentable but I think almost everyone that works in the field could figure that one out too...
FYI "blurry picture clearing technology" is a figment of Hollywood's imagination. If it was easy I could sell you a 1MP camera with no lens. It'll take a crappy blurry picture but you could just "blurry picture clear" it into a 10MP sharp image.
The best thing to do is avoid it in the first place which is what this patent is all about.
Originally Posted by Serendip
I'm shocked they've even applied for this patent. I use to work for Apple and now work for *cough*.
The draw to Apple forums was so great you switched companies. 'Course now you can't post on *cough*'s forums…
FYI "blurry picture clearing technology" is a figment of Hollywood's imagination.
Really (as posted earlier)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling
I think it might end being kind of peculiar to use at first, because most of us expect the pictures to be taken AT or AFTER we click, not during the time beforehand.
I think the opposite. You press the camera button thinking you want the picture shown on the screen. Because of the time taken to press the button and the shutter delay all cameras always take the picture AFTER the click. And often it is not what is wanted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serendip
I'm shocked they've even applied for this patent. I use to work for Apple and now work for *cough*. I'm somewhat of a Apple fan but as a camera engineer I have to say this method is extremely obvious. It pops up every single time deblurring comes up in discussions with customers. 3 times this year alone.
This is a natural consequence of implementations of NSL and burst in fact. You're already capturing repeated stills... picking the best one is not a patent IMHO. The method of determining which one is the best could be patentable but I think almost everyone that works in the field could figure that one out too...
FYI "blurry picture clearing technology" is a figment of Hollywood's imagination. If it was easy I could sell you a 1MP camera with no lens. It'll take a crappy blurry picture but you could just "blurry picture clear" it into a 10MP sharp image.
The best thing to do is avoid it in the first place which is what this patent is all about.
I think whether it is patentable is whether it is prior art. If no company has implemented it then it is not a prior art. Samsung's Burst Mode is clearly not a prior art.
No really? I guess you want it to constantly take pictures.