Here's what's STUPID. I've had this version for a while now and i went to a site that had this warning message and I'm trying to figure out why it came up when I already have it. I forget exactly what date I installed it, but it's been on my iMac for at least a week.
Ah, see, there's the problem with that. You don't.
Delete Flash. Delete Java. Live free.
I wish I could delete the two of them, but there are still a bunch of lazy web developers still using that crap and there are sites that I frequent (no, they aren't porn), that require Flash or Java.
I wish I could delete the two of them, but there are still a bunch of lazy web developers still using that crap and there are sites that I frequent (no, they aren't porn), that require Flash or Java.
Then don't frequent those sites. They'll get the picture when they have to pay hundreds out of pocket for hosting costs.
Vote with your browser ("wallet"). Teach them that '90s-level tech isn't acceptable anymore.
It is ironic that Disney, which Steve Jobs was a major shareholder, does a bunch of stuff in Flash. So, not deleting Flash for a while.
Yes, it's funny that Jobs was blind to some things and so easily went ballistic over others.
Another example is keeping Intuit's Campbell on the board in spite of decades of crappy software - where they were intentionally making lousy Mac versions in order to switch people over to Windows.
I wish I could delete the two of them, but there are still a bunch of lazy web developers still using that crap and there are sites that I frequent, that require Flash or Java.
I'm sure there are some lazy developers but there are also some really advanced developers that are unable to do what they need to do without Flash.
I have given examples in the past but here is another one which I mentioned earlier in this thread but I want to elaborate on it.
Open Street Maps editors need Flash because there is no practical way except using Flash to drag vector images on to a map and have it update the data base. It also has a lot of features such as drawing tools on top of satellite imagery. Google maps has similar technology running in Javascript but the drawing part has to be done programmatically where as with Flash you can just draw vectors right on the map. You would think that an organization like Open Street Maps would use open source tools if it were possible to do what they need to do using them. But they don't because those tools don't exist. They have to use Flash to accomplish what they need to accomplish.
It should be the user's choice. For example when I am far away from fast Internet and only have 3G, I suddenly discover that the latest Safari which I updated before leaving on my mapping excursion has blocked Flash, effectively preventing me from updating my Open Street Maps project which runs in Flash.
Edit: Of course now I know and I could always use Chrome but still...
It is the user's choice, you can turn off the auto removal in all 3 versions of OS X, just like you have the choice not to restrict apps to App Store or signed. Even a very tech saavy person could fall victim to one of these exploits, I'm personally glad Apple is being so proactive no matter how much it might inconvenience me. I don't blame Apple when my Java or Flash won't work. I blame Adobe & Oracle, that is after all the logical place for the blame to fall.
So you're saying that you would rather have X number of machines on your network with known vulnerabilities than have to deal with a user that whines that Flash is broken. Ooookay. I'm glad you work at an educational institution and not a bank or company that handles personal client info. For us, a known vulnerability on our network simply isn't tolerable.
You obviously have no idea what its like to work in an IT environment. Its not as simple as just upgrade the Macs all the time. Its a huge pain in the ass to do this. This isn't a consumer situation where sensitive tax data or whatever is stored on the Mac's HD. There isn't any sensitive data on a workstation and any environment where there would be wouldn't have flash installed anyways, possibly Java as well. There's really no reason for a server to have flash installed which is where the real threat is.
We have programs people depend on everyday for learning assessments and things like that. These are programs that HAVE to be up and running as both students and teachers are assessed based off these programs. To have to spend my day upgrading Macs is something I'd rather not be doing all the time. If the Mac doesn't work, then it gives the perception that this lab never works or is unreliable so it never gets used, thus wasting $40,000 worth of Macs which will never get upgraded because its never used.
I'm sure there are some lazy developers but there are also some really advanced developers that are unable to do what they need to do without Flash.
I have given examples in the past but here is another one which I mentioned earlier in this thread but I want to elaborate on it.
Open Street Maps editors need Flash because there is no practical way except using Flash to drag vector images on to a map and have it update the data base. It also has a lot of features such as drawing tools on top of satellite imagery. Google maps has similar technology running in Javascript but the drawing part has to be done programmatically where as with Flash you can just draw vectors right on the map. You would think that an organization like Open Street Maps would use open source tools if it were possible to do what they need to do using them. But they don't because those tools don't exist. They have to use Flash to accomplish what they need to accomplish.
They use Flash for the same reason anyone else does: It's an easy way to deliver eye candy for people with no programming skills, vulnerabilities be damned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
You would think that an organization like Open Street Maps would use open source tools if it were possible to do what they need to do using them. But they don't because those tools don't exist. They have to use Flash to accomplish what they need to accomplish.
The open source crowd tend to give themselves a fair bit of latitude when it comes to those (ahem) "exceptions". They take a stand on H.264 support but give MP3s and Adobe Flash a pass?
I wish I could delete the two of them, but there are still a bunch of lazy web developers still using that crap and there are sites that I frequent (no, they aren't porn), that require Flash or Java.
Can't we all just get along? LOL..
Sadly the BBC news web site is a an example of what you say, it is astounding how some major sites are still not embracing HTML5.
They use Flash for the same reason anyone else does: It's an easy way to deliver eye candy for people with no programming skills, vulnerabilities be damned.
The open source crowd tend to give themselves a fair bit of latitude when it comes to those (ahem) "exceptions". They take a stand on H.264 support but give MP3s and Adobe Flash a pass?
There are some designer oriented applications to create eye candy in HTML5 now such as Hype. Hopefully they will get better and more powerful soon.
You obviously have no idea what its like to work in an IT environment. Its not as simple as just upgrade the Macs all the time. Its a huge pain in the ass to do this. This isn't a consumer situation where sensitive tax data or whatever is stored on the Mac's HD. There isn't any sensitive data on a workstation and any environment where there would be wouldn't have flash installed anyways, possibly Java as well. There's really no reason for a server to have flash installed which is where the real threat is.
We have programs people depend on everyday for learning assessments and things like that. These are programs that HAVE to be up and running as both students and teachers are assessed based off these programs. To have to spend my day upgrading Macs is something I'd rather not be doing all the time. If the Mac doesn't work, then it gives the perception that this lab never works or is unreliable so it never gets used, thus wasting $40,000 worth of Macs which will never get upgraded because its never used.
Out of curiosity ...do you / can you... use OS X Server or Apple Desktop Remote to push upgrades out to all Macs on the network from a single Mac?
Out of curiosity ...do you / can you... use OS X Server or Apple Desktop Remote to push upgrades out to all Macs on the network from a single Mac?
Yes..I use ARD to push the Flash and Java updates out. However, it requires that all of the Macs be turned on and they're not all in one building. They're in separate buildings, 4 or 5 miles apart. You cannot use ARD to turn Macs on. This only works with the Xserve. This is part of the pain it the ass part...along with I just updated flash last week or the week before and now its blocked again. So I have to start all over again. I also just read someone found another exploit in Java so I assume that will be blocked again as well. As far as pushing the update out, it doesn't take very long. Its just a pain that I have to stop what I'm doing, try to get all of the Macs turned on in the entire district, and push the updates out one room at a time. Then you'll get someone who closes a lid of one of the MacBooks or something which puts the Mac to sleep, or they'll shut it off.
The other pain in the ass part is I'm not in that school district everyday. For example, I wasn't in that district today and of course flash was blocked today. So it ruined someone's teaching plans for the Mac lab at the elementary school because they wanted to use something on the internet that required flash. For anyone that doesn't have clue what its like working in an educational environment its not fair to the teacher to do all of this planning and then have something go wrong so they have to change their plans on the fly. Not only does it ruin their plans, but also the students productivity.
When updating flash you have to extract the pkg file out of the flash installer. Of course Adobe has to be a pain in the ass and go against standards for the Mac side when installing things. The installer for flash isn't a pkg file itself. You have to right click on the installer and Show Contents, then navigate to the Resources folder where you'll see the flashinstaller.pkg file.
To my knowledge, ARD installers being pushed out only work with .pkg files. Sucks when you have someone still using InstallerVISE. Yes...lazy developers still use this believe it or not.
So I think you can see where I'm coming from with this. It may seem like its simple, and doing it is...its just getting everything prepared and hope something doesn't happen in the meantime. Its just a hassle I'd rather not have to deal with. In a home environment you don't have to worry about this. You just download and install it.
Comments
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1
…making us keep…
Ah, see, there's the problem with that. You don't.
Delete Flash. Delete Java. Live free.
Here's what's STUPID. I've had this version for a while now and i went to a site that had this warning message and I'm trying to figure out why it came up when I already have it. I forget exactly what date I installed it, but it's been on my iMac for at least a week.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Ah, see, there's the problem with that. You don't.
Delete Flash. Delete Java. Live free.
I wish I could delete the two of them, but there are still a bunch of lazy web developers still using that crap and there are sites that I frequent (no, they aren't porn), that require Flash or Java.
Can't we all just get along? LOL..
Originally Posted by drblank
I wish I could delete the two of them, but there are still a bunch of lazy web developers still using that crap and there are sites that I frequent (no, they aren't porn), that require Flash or Java.
Then don't frequent those sites. They'll get the picture when they have to pay hundreds out of pocket for hosting costs.
Vote with your browser ("wallet"). Teach them that '90s-level tech isn't acceptable anymore.
Why would anyone still be using Safari on their computers is beyond comprehension
Originally Posted by agramonte
Why would anyone still be using Safari on their computers is beyond comprehension
Why we're not allowed to delete absolute stupidity like this is beyond comprehension.
You have ZERO explanation or excuse for saying this. NOTHING you claim could ever possibly be a valid reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neiltc13
Can you explain how I can choose to only use "the very newest version" of JavaScript in Safari?
My mistake, I was thinking about Flash And Java.
Quote:
Originally Posted by agramonte
Why would anyone still be using Safari on their computers is beyond comprehension
What a dumb comment.
I have all of the other browsers installed, but yet, I choose to use Safari, because that's what I prefer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Ah, see, there's the problem with that. You don't.
Delete Flash. Delete Java. Live free.
It is ironic that Disney, which Steve Jobs was a major shareholder, does a bunch of stuff in Flash. So, not deleting Flash for a while.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
The only safe computer is one that is unplugged and turned off.
Yes, it's funny that Jobs was blind to some things and so easily went ballistic over others.
Another example is keeping Intuit's Campbell on the board in spite of decades of crappy software - where they were intentionally making lousy Mac versions in order to switch people over to Windows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank
I wish I could delete the two of them, but there are still a bunch of lazy web developers still using that crap and there are sites that I frequent, that require Flash or Java.
I'm sure there are some lazy developers but there are also some really advanced developers that are unable to do what they need to do without Flash.
I have given examples in the past but here is another one which I mentioned earlier in this thread but I want to elaborate on it.
Open Street Maps editors need Flash because there is no practical way except using Flash to drag vector images on to a map and have it update the data base. It also has a lot of features such as drawing tools on top of satellite imagery. Google maps has similar technology running in Javascript but the drawing part has to be done programmatically where as with Flash you can just draw vectors right on the map. You would think that an organization like Open Street Maps would use open source tools if it were possible to do what they need to do using them. But they don't because those tools don't exist. They have to use Flash to accomplish what they need to accomplish.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
It should be the user's choice. For example when I am far away from fast Internet and only have 3G, I suddenly discover that the latest Safari which I updated before leaving on my mapping excursion has blocked Flash, effectively preventing me from updating my Open Street Maps project which runs in Flash.
Edit: Of course now I know and I could always use Chrome but still...
It is the user's choice, you can turn off the auto removal in all 3 versions of OS X, just like you have the choice not to restrict apps to App Store or signed. Even a very tech saavy person could fall victim to one of these exploits, I'm personally glad Apple is being so proactive no matter how much it might inconvenience me. I don't blame Apple when my Java or Flash won't work. I blame Adobe & Oracle, that is after all the logical place for the blame to fall.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress
Therefore, let me decide on whether or not I want to disable flash. Its my network so let ME decide!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
It should be the user's choice.
Simple.
Run Firefox or Chrome on your Mac. (Though Firefox has been blocking older versions of Flash as well.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Rick_V_
So you're saying that you would rather have X number of machines on your network with known vulnerabilities than have to deal with a user that whines that Flash is broken. Ooookay. I'm glad you work at an educational institution and not a bank or company that handles personal client info. For us, a known vulnerability on our network simply isn't tolerable.
You obviously have no idea what its like to work in an IT environment. Its not as simple as just upgrade the Macs all the time. Its a huge pain in the ass to do this. This isn't a consumer situation where sensitive tax data or whatever is stored on the Mac's HD. There isn't any sensitive data on a workstation and any environment where there would be wouldn't have flash installed anyways, possibly Java as well. There's really no reason for a server to have flash installed which is where the real threat is.
We have programs people depend on everyday for learning assessments and things like that. These are programs that HAVE to be up and running as both students and teachers are assessed based off these programs. To have to spend my day upgrading Macs is something I'd rather not be doing all the time. If the Mac doesn't work, then it gives the perception that this lab never works or is unreliable so it never gets used, thus wasting $40,000 worth of Macs which will never get upgraded because its never used.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
I'm sure there are some lazy developers but there are also some really advanced developers that are unable to do what they need to do without Flash.
I have given examples in the past but here is another one which I mentioned earlier in this thread but I want to elaborate on it.
Open Street Maps editors need Flash because there is no practical way except using Flash to drag vector images on to a map and have it update the data base. It also has a lot of features such as drawing tools on top of satellite imagery. Google maps has similar technology running in Javascript but the drawing part has to be done programmatically where as with Flash you can just draw vectors right on the map. You would think that an organization like Open Street Maps would use open source tools if it were possible to do what they need to do using them. But they don't because those tools don't exist. They have to use Flash to accomplish what they need to accomplish.
They use Flash for the same reason anyone else does: It's an easy way to deliver eye candy for people with no programming skills, vulnerabilities be damned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
You would think that an organization like Open Street Maps would use open source tools if it were possible to do what they need to do using them. But they don't because those tools don't exist. They have to use Flash to accomplish what they need to accomplish.
The open source crowd tend to give themselves a fair bit of latitude when it comes to those (ahem) "exceptions". They take a stand on H.264 support but give MP3s and Adobe Flash a pass?
Sadly the BBC news web site is a an example of what you say, it is astounding how some major sites are still not embracing HTML5.
There are some designer oriented applications to create eye candy in HTML5 now such as Hype. Hopefully they will get better and more powerful soon.
Out of curiosity ...do you / can you... use OS X Server or Apple Desktop Remote to push upgrades out to all Macs on the network from a single Mac?
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
Out of curiosity ...do you / can you... use OS X Server or Apple Desktop Remote to push upgrades out to all Macs on the network from a single Mac?
Yes..I use ARD to push the Flash and Java updates out. However, it requires that all of the Macs be turned on and they're not all in one building. They're in separate buildings, 4 or 5 miles apart. You cannot use ARD to turn Macs on. This only works with the Xserve. This is part of the pain it the ass part...along with I just updated flash last week or the week before and now its blocked again. So I have to start all over again. I also just read someone found another exploit in Java so I assume that will be blocked again as well. As far as pushing the update out, it doesn't take very long. Its just a pain that I have to stop what I'm doing, try to get all of the Macs turned on in the entire district, and push the updates out one room at a time. Then you'll get someone who closes a lid of one of the MacBooks or something which puts the Mac to sleep, or they'll shut it off.
The other pain in the ass part is I'm not in that school district everyday. For example, I wasn't in that district today and of course flash was blocked today. So it ruined someone's teaching plans for the Mac lab at the elementary school because they wanted to use something on the internet that required flash. For anyone that doesn't have clue what its like working in an educational environment its not fair to the teacher to do all of this planning and then have something go wrong so they have to change their plans on the fly. Not only does it ruin their plans, but also the students productivity.
When updating flash you have to extract the pkg file out of the flash installer. Of course Adobe has to be a pain in the ass and go against standards for the Mac side when installing things. The installer for flash isn't a pkg file itself. You have to right click on the installer and Show Contents, then navigate to the Resources folder where you'll see the flashinstaller.pkg file.
To my knowledge, ARD installers being pushed out only work with .pkg files. Sucks when you have someone still using InstallerVISE. Yes...lazy developers still use this believe it or not.
So I think you can see where I'm coming from with this. It may seem like its simple, and doing it is...its just getting everything prepared and hope something doesn't happen in the meantime. Its just a hassle I'd rather not have to deal with. In a home environment you don't have to worry about this. You just download and install it.