Sure, there's a good chance that Apple will continue to be super successful. But if you are responsible for a LOT of money, chances are you'll invest in something a bit less volatile right now. The 10+ years of success were on a much smaller level than from 2007 (more like 2008) on. And there was the visionary Steve Jobs. And there was no real competition in 2008, 2009, 2010 for the iPhone.
Now you have extreme competition in the smart phone space and an unproven CEO at Apple. And other massive changes at the executive level. And a relatively stagnant differentiator with their mobile OS, which was light years ahead during the mega growth years but is arguably a bit unimaginative lately.
And yet Apple still has 70% of the mobile profits and still sells record numbers of iDevices.
Are you telling me no execs left during Jobs tenure?
And yet Apple still has 70% of the mobile profits and still sells record numbers of iDevices.
Are you telling me no execs left during Jobs tenure?
No. But you can't deny that the change in iOS leadership was extraordinary.
From a stock future point of view, the current 70% share in profits are a liability because it's more likely to shrink than grow, given the vastly improved competition.
This is getting so old that we can smell it across the internet.
Hey, we stopped the return crowd from saying it about new product releases. We pushed so hard that we managed to lower into complete ridicule the serious posting of that stuff.
I personally figure this will work in a broader scale. Eventually people will shut up about the stock price and "failed" leadership because even they won't want to appear that stupid.
Any positive news doesn't help at this point. This is probably the most scrutinized stock ever, and almost all the pundits are wrong. Wall Street will never understand Apple, also Apples justifiable secret habits make all the big hedge fund managers very nervous. In a short time from now they will jump on board again, late out of the gate. Take a look at that Greenlight shumck, from what I understand he didn't get in till it was in the 500s. Let all the joyriders go, those of us in it for the long run and do know Apple will be handsomely rewarded.
Right on.
Warren Buffett said Apple should just ignore the hedge fund and others BS and continue doing their successful thing.
It bears mentioning that much of the $1500 you refer to goes to building towers, which Verizon has more than any other carrier, as well as all the back haul infrastructure, stores, employees, taxes, legal fees, advertising, and many other necessary expenditures. I guess those things don't occur to people who have never had a real job. They just see that $1500 as pure profit in the pockets of the greedy corporation.
I know exactly what Verizon's income is used for.
My point was... Verizon might get $1500 over 2 years from an iPhone activation... or maybe $1700 from a non-iPhone activation...
But is that extra couple hundred dollars worth it if the person really wanted an iPhone but instead they got talked into a phone they didn't want?
BTW... I'm 35 years old and I know how the world works and I know customer satisfaction is very important to Verizon as well.
You could say Verizon is ignoring "extra" money when they sell someone an iPhone... but it sounds like Verizon wants to keep their customers happy.
Sorry I guess I misunderstood your remark "<span style="background-color:rgb(241,241,241);color:rgb(24,24,24);font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;line-height:18px;">The customer gets the "free" iPhone 4 they want... and Verizon gets tons of money."</span>
Yeah... I meant both parties are happy.
You're right... some of that money gets rolled back into the network... but carriers are usually left with plenty of profit.
No. But you can't deny that the change in iOS leadership was extraordinary.
From a stock future point of view, the current 70% share in profits are a liability because it's more likely to shrink than grow, given the vastly improved competition.
Sometimes change is good. Like you said, some people are tired of iOS. Not me, though.
It's only a liability if it shrinks along with the market. The market isn't shrinking.
I think that's the big Verizon... not specifically Verizon Wireless.
But it's still shocking news. Verizon had $30 BILLION in revenue last quarter... but they made ZERO dollars in profit?
How the hell does that even happen?
I believe there is only one Verizon: NYSE: VZ
I think it had to do with Hurricane Sandy. You get a disaster like that and a lot of profits go down the drain or up in smoke as you have to completely rebuild your entire infrastructure from the ground up in one of the most heavily saturated markets.
Even if Verizon has to write a $450 check to Apple to subsidize the iPhone 4... Verizon still ends up with around $1500 over the life of that contract.
The customer gets the "free" iPhone 4 they want... and Verizon gets tons of money.
I don't know why this is such a shock.
$1500 minus costs.
You think network equipment costs nothing, needs no one to service and maintain it and runs on air, that phones deliver, store, service and sell themselves?
I'm sick of this naive argument, even people buying outright handsets still have to cover usage costs unless they just want paperweights.
I think it had to do with Hurricane Sandy. You get a disaster like that and a lot of profits go down the drain or up in smoke as you have to completely rebuild your entire infrastructure from the ground up in one of the most heavily saturated markets.
There is one Verizon corporation... but there are different divisions inside it:
Wireless
Land line phone
DSL
FIOS
etc...
Wireless can make money... while the land line division loses money. That happens quite often in huge corporations.
You think network equipment costs nothing, needs no one to service and maintain it and runs on air, that phones deliver, store, service and sell themselves?
I'm sick of this naive argument, even people buying outright handsets still have to cover usage costs unless they just want paperweights.
No doubt there are costs... I never said there weren't.
But I don't think every single penny of people's monthly wireless fees get poured back into employees wages and infrastructure.
If they do... how is that sustainable? Do we really think wireless carriers are running at break-even?
Verizon Wireless has 40% profit margin... that doesn't sound like break-even at all.
Comments
And yet Apple still has 70% of the mobile profits and still sells record numbers of iDevices.
Are you telling me no execs left during Jobs tenure?
No. But you can't deny that the change in iOS leadership was extraordinary.
From a stock future point of view, the current 70% share in profits are a liability because it's more likely to shrink than grow, given the vastly improved competition.
Originally Posted by ankleskater
This is getting so old that we can smell it across the internet.
Hey, we stopped the return crowd from saying it about new product releases. We pushed so hard that we managed to lower into complete ridicule the serious posting of that stuff.
I personally figure this will work in a broader scale. Eventually people will shut up about the stock price and "failed" leadership because even they won't want to appear that stupid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by forangels
Any positive news doesn't help at this point. This is probably the most scrutinized stock ever, and almost all the pundits are wrong. Wall Street will never understand Apple, also Apples justifiable secret habits make all the big hedge fund managers very nervous. In a short time from now they will jump on board again, late out of the gate. Take a look at that Greenlight shumck, from what I understand he didn't get in till it was in the 500s. Let all the joyriders go, those of us in it for the long run and do know Apple will be handsomely rewarded.
Right on.
Warren Buffett said Apple should just ignore the hedge fund and others BS and continue doing their successful thing.
http://bgr.com/2013/03/04/warren-buffett-apple-advice-359185/
WARREN BUFFETT’S ADVICE TO APPLE: IGNORE WALL STREET NOISE
I know exactly what Verizon's income is used for.
My point was... Verizon might get $1500 over 2 years from an iPhone activation... or maybe $1700 from a non-iPhone activation...
But is that extra couple hundred dollars worth it if the person really wanted an iPhone but instead they got talked into a phone they didn't want?
BTW... I'm 35 years old and I know how the world works
You could say Verizon is ignoring "extra" money when they sell someone an iPhone... but it sounds like Verizon wants to keep their customers happy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip
I know exactly what Verizon's income is used for.
My point was... Verizon might get $1500 over 2 years from an iPhone activation... or maybe $1700 from a non-iPhone activation...
But is that extra couple hundred dollars worth it if the person really wanted an iPhone but instead they got talked into a phone they didn't want?
BTW... I'm 35 years old and I know how the world works
You could say Verizon is ignoring "extra" money when they sell someone an iPhone... but it sounds like Verizon wants to keep their customers happy.
Sorry I guess I misunderstood your remark "The customer gets the "free" iPhone 4 they want... and Verizon gets tons of money."
Yeah... I meant both parties are happy.
You're right... some of that money gets rolled back into the network... but carriers are usually left with plenty of profit.
Sometimes change is good. Like you said, some people are tired of iOS. Not me, though.
It's only a liability if it shrinks along with the market. The market isn't shrinking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Sorry I guess I misunderstood your remark "The customer gets the "free" iPhone 4 they want... and Verizon gets tons of money."
Yeah... I meant both parties are happy.
You're right... some of that money gets rolled back into the network... but carriers are usually left with plenty of profit.
Quote:
From CNBC:
Jan 22, 2013 – Verizon shares dropped in pre-open trading after the company reported a fourth- quarter loss per share of $1.48.
I think that's the big Verizon... not specifically Verizon Wireless.
But it's still shocking news. Verizon had $30 BILLION in revenue last quarter... but they made ZERO dollars in profit?
How the hell does that even happen?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip
I think that's the big Verizon... not specifically Verizon Wireless.
But it's still shocking news. Verizon had $30 BILLION in revenue last quarter... but they made ZERO dollars in profit?
How the hell does that even happen?
I believe there is only one Verizon: NYSE: VZ
I think it had to do with Hurricane Sandy. You get a disaster like that and a lot of profits go down the drain or up in smoke as you have to completely rebuild your entire infrastructure from the ground up in one of the most heavily saturated markets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip
File this under "DUH"
Even if Verizon has to write a $450 check to Apple to subsidize the iPhone 4... Verizon still ends up with around $1500 over the life of that contract.
The customer gets the "free" iPhone 4 they want... and Verizon gets tons of money.
I don't know why this is such a shock.
$1500 minus costs.
You think network equipment costs nothing, needs no one to service and maintain it and runs on air, that phones deliver, store, service and sell themselves?
I'm sick of this naive argument, even people buying outright handsets still have to cover usage costs unless they just want paperweights.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip
I think that's the big Verizon... not specifically Verizon Wireless.
But it's still shocking news. Verizon had $30 BILLION in revenue last quarter... but they made ZERO dollars in profit?
How the hell does that even happen?
...because people don't like working for free.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshA
WARREN BUFFETT’S ADVICE TO APPLE: IGNORE WALL STREET NOISE
Just like Steve Jobs advised, since the earliest days.
There is one Verizon corporation... but there are different divisions inside it:
Wireless
Land line phone
DSL
FIOS
etc...
Wireless can make money... while the land line division loses money. That happens quite often in huge corporations.
No doubt there are costs... I never said there weren't.
But I don't think every single penny of people's monthly wireless fees get poured back into employees wages and infrastructure.
If they do... how is that sustainable? Do we really think wireless carriers are running at break-even?
Verizon Wireless has 40% profit margin... that doesn't sound like break-even at all.