I think a tracking device in a closed environment like an amusement park is really not a big deal. What's the difference if they know what rides you went on and when or what food you bought? I think that the membership cards issued by supermarkets, drugstores and other retailers is much more onerous. I don't use them because I don't want my purchases tracked, although when you use a credit card, they're being somewhat tracked anyway.
Yes, this is a weird scenario as far as privacy/tracking goes. I would probably be okay with wearing a tracker around an amusement park, but only if it was purchased anonymously, i.e with cash. There's actually some good that could come of this type of tracking, such as figuring out the order that patrons go on certain rides, broken down by rough age perhaps; better placement of bathrooms and eateries, etc.
But as soon as it gets attached to individuals, via credit card or by hotel/room#, then forget it. At that point it's just like the fucking supermarket tracking, only worse. Yes Mr. Jones, we saw that you ate nothing but nasty, greasy food for 4 days leading up to your heart attack. I'm sorry, but your policy exemptions explicitly state that we are not responsible...
For those who think these scenarios aren't realistic, here are just a few real world documented examples:
The FBI was reported to have mined customer data collected by San Francisco-area grocery stores, hoping that sales records of Middle Eastern food would lead to Iranian terrorists. (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13739_3-9812473-46.html)
In a Washington state case a few years ago, a suspected arsonist was arrested after police tracked down a fire-starter unit with a Safeway label attached. Safeway provided police with his purchase history. The charges were later dropped, but the point is that the store gave access to the customer’s personal information to authorities. He spent more than 5 months on administrative leave from his job (as a firefighter!); if he was employed in the private sector he would most likely have lost his job.
The U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency subpoenaed records from the customer database of a supermarket chain in the Southwest looking to see if certain individuals had purchased large quantities of plastic bags commonly used in drug transactions. (Robert O’Harrow, “Bargains at a Price: Shoppers’ Privacy,” Washington Post, Dec. 31, 1998, p. A-1.)
In 2005, the drugstore chain CVS disabled a feature on its Web site after it was revealed that unauthorized persons could improperly obtain customer-purchase records by email. The company said the online feature was designed to provide customers with access to their own purchase information of over-the-counter medicines for tax purposes. (See Todd Weiss, “Privacy Fears Prompt CVS to Turn Off Online Service,” ComputerWorld, June 27, 2005.)
Users of General Nutrition Center’s Gold Card had their personal information posted on a Web site by one of the company executives who was selling the information to a partner company.
A California store that tried to use its loyalty card records in a court case involving a customer who slipped and was injured in the store. Von’s Supermarket believed the customer was under the influence of alcohol at the time and wanted to use its purchase data to support this claim. The evidence was ultimately not used in court, but the case clearly shows what it possible.
Sadly, I agree that libertyforall doesn't usually make a good case with his/her posts here, but it doesn't mean the issue is without merit. Take a look at a more moderate (sane), educational site for more info, like privacyrights.org, which is a great resource for understanding what's really happening now, and how to better protect yourself. For example: did you know that smartphone users are 33% more likely to be victims of identity theft than non-smartphone users?
Originally Posted by zoetmb
I agree (except for your "wrist" comment). It seems to me that passing through a turnstile would be much faster than having to line up in front of a person who has to move a device in order to scan. And once you're in the park, since it's still a pay-one-price park (right?), I don't understand why the wristband is necessary at all, except perhaps as a way to pay for food and other crap instead of using cash or a credit card.
I agree. I'm definitely not understanding the logistics of how this is being used for entry. If there are no gates, then what stops people from sauntering past the workers?
Having recently been down in Florida at the ESPN site, I can vouch for the problems that they face with the current RFID system. It works ~ 50% of the time. I think the problem is more with the fingerprint reader than with the RFID stuff.
I suspect that Disney is not happy with those issues and is looking for a better way. Remove the gates, remove the fingerprint reader (which is creepy, BTW) and move to bands and scanners.
Apple continues to change the world; Samsung simply keeps on copying Apple and trying to catch up in Apple's ability to throw off cash. I hope Apple realizes that market share does matter; they won the iPod market through marketshare, not just innovation. I'd hate to see Samsung win the marketshare using 80% of Apple's technology (and not quite getting it right, as usual).
Shocking!! Do you mean to say they scan fingerprints of customers for access??? Unbelievable... that is a waaay bigger issue than rfid scanning of a bracelet with no personal information if its used. How long is this information stored?
I would never ever go there if they use fingerprinting for salesidentification.
Shocking!! Do you mean to say they scan fingerprints of customers for access??? Unbelievable... that is a waaay bigger issue than rfid scanning of a bracelet with no personal information if its used. How long is this information stored?
Disney does not capture fingerprints. Their devices scan finger geometry and store a small set of points which are just statistically significant enough to tell if someone else was trying to use that ticket, but which don't have nearly enough info to pinpoint a particular person.
For example, if you gave your two day pass to someone else, odds are that their finger geometry wouldn't match yours, and Disney would then ask for photo id.
Trouble is, it's not super accurate, kids don't put their fingers on correctly, it fails with people with medical problems that make fingers swell during the day, and it's unsanitary. Some think that they might switch to facial recognition if that could be made fast enough.
The data points are purged when the ticket expires, or after 30 days with longer term passes.
Disney does not capture fingerprints. Their devices scan finger geometry and store a small set of points which are just statistically significant enough to tell if someone else was trying to use that ticket, but which don't have nearly enough info to pinpoint a particular person.
For example, if you gave your two day pass to someone else, odds are that their finger geometry wouldn't match yours, and Disney would then ask for photo id.
Trouble is, it's not super accurate, kids don't put their fingers on correctly, it fails with people with medical problems that make fingers swell during the day, and it's unsanitary. Some think that they might switch to facial recognition if that could be made fast enough.
The data points are purged when the ticket expires, or after 30 days with longer term passes.
And the difference of this method is? I thought that labs process fingerprints with similar algorithms?!?!
It's nice that they delete this information that we can never ever verify in any way!
Comments
Originally Posted by zoetmb
I think a tracking device in a closed environment like an amusement park is really not a big deal. What's the difference if they know what rides you went on and when or what food you bought? I think that the membership cards issued by supermarkets, drugstores and other retailers is much more onerous. I don't use them because I don't want my purchases tracked, although when you use a credit card, they're being somewhat tracked anyway.
Yes, this is a weird scenario as far as privacy/tracking goes. I would probably be okay with wearing a tracker around an amusement park, but only if it was purchased anonymously, i.e with cash. There's actually some good that could come of this type of tracking, such as figuring out the order that patrons go on certain rides, broken down by rough age perhaps; better placement of bathrooms and eateries, etc.
But as soon as it gets attached to individuals, via credit card or by hotel/room#, then forget it. At that point it's just like the fucking supermarket tracking, only worse. Yes Mr. Jones, we saw that you ate nothing but nasty, greasy food for 4 days leading up to your heart attack. I'm sorry, but your policy exemptions explicitly state that we are not responsible...
For those who think these scenarios aren't realistic, here are just a few real world documented examples:
The FBI was reported to have mined customer data collected by San Francisco-area grocery stores, hoping that sales records of Middle Eastern food would lead to Iranian terrorists. (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13739_3-9812473-46.html)
In a Washington state case a few years ago, a suspected arsonist was arrested after police tracked down a fire-starter unit with a Safeway label attached. Safeway provided police with his purchase history. The charges were later dropped, but the point is that the store gave access to the customer’s personal information to authorities. He spent more than 5 months on administrative leave from his job (as a firefighter!); if he was employed in the private sector he would most likely have lost his job.
The U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency subpoenaed records from the customer database of a supermarket chain in the Southwest looking to see if certain individuals had purchased large quantities of plastic bags commonly used in drug transactions. (Robert O’Harrow, “Bargains at a Price: Shoppers’ Privacy,” Washington Post, Dec. 31, 1998, p. A-1.)
In 2005, the drugstore chain CVS disabled a feature on its Web site after it was revealed that unauthorized persons could improperly obtain customer-purchase records by email. The company said the online feature was designed to provide customers with access to their own purchase information of over-the-counter medicines for tax purposes. (See Todd Weiss, “Privacy Fears Prompt CVS to Turn Off Online Service,” ComputerWorld, June 27, 2005.)
Users of General Nutrition Center’s Gold Card had their personal information posted on a Web site by one of the company executives who was selling the information to a partner company.
A California store that tried to use its loyalty card records in a court case involving a customer who slipped and was injured in the store. Von’s Supermarket believed the customer was under the influence of alcohol at the time and wanted to use its purchase data to support this claim. The evidence was ultimately not used in court, but the case clearly shows what it possible.
Sadly, I agree that libertyforall doesn't usually make a good case with his/her posts here, but it doesn't mean the issue is without merit. Take a look at a more moderate (sane), educational site for more info, like privacyrights.org, which is a great resource for understanding what's really happening now, and how to better protect yourself. For example: did you know that smartphone users are 33% more likely to be victims of identity theft than non-smartphone users?
Originally Posted by zoetmb
I agree (except for your "wrist" comment). It seems to me that passing through a turnstile would be much faster than having to line up in front of a person who has to move a device in order to scan. And once you're in the park, since it's still a pay-one-price park (right?), I don't understand why the wristband is necessary at all, except perhaps as a way to pay for food and other crap instead of using cash or a credit card.
I agree. I'm definitely not understanding the logistics of how this is being used for entry. If there are no gates, then what stops people from sauntering past the workers?
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
Mickey Mouse is out to get you!!!!
It's high time to upgrade your tinfoil hat. In case you didn't know, the aliens from Zorb embedded RFID in your genome many ages ago.
This was supposed to be directed at libertyforall, not sure how it picked up on your post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwoloszynski
Having recently been down in Florida at the ESPN site, I can vouch for the problems that they face with the current RFID system. It works ~ 50% of the time. I think the problem is more with the fingerprint reader than with the RFID stuff.
I suspect that Disney is not happy with those issues and is looking for a better way. Remove the gates, remove the fingerprint reader (which is creepy, BTW) and move to bands and scanners.
Apple continues to change the world; Samsung simply keeps on copying Apple and trying to catch up in Apple's ability to throw off cash. I hope Apple realizes that market share does matter; they won the iPod market through marketshare, not just innovation. I'd hate to see Samsung win the marketshare using 80% of Apple's technology (and not quite getting it right, as usual).
Shocking!! Do you mean to say they scan fingerprints of customers for access??? Unbelievable... that is a waaay bigger issue than rfid scanning of a bracelet with no personal information if its used. How long is this information stored?
I would never ever go there if they use fingerprinting for salesidentification.
Quote:
Originally Posted by habi
Shocking!! Do you mean to say they scan fingerprints of customers for access??? Unbelievable... that is a waaay bigger issue than rfid scanning of a bracelet with no personal information if its used. How long is this information stored?
Disney does not capture fingerprints. Their devices scan finger geometry and store a small set of points which are just statistically significant enough to tell if someone else was trying to use that ticket, but which don't have nearly enough info to pinpoint a particular person.
For example, if you gave your two day pass to someone else, odds are that their finger geometry wouldn't match yours, and Disney would then ask for photo id.
Trouble is, it's not super accurate, kids don't put their fingers on correctly, it fails with people with medical problems that make fingers swell during the day, and it's unsanitary. Some think that they might switch to facial recognition if that could be made fast enough.
The data points are purged when the ticket expires, or after 30 days with longer term passes.
And the difference of this method is? I thought that labs process fingerprints with similar algorithms?!?!
It's nice that they delete this information that we can never ever verify in any way!