I've seen that claim - near-field resonant magnetic coupling over large distances (many times the size of the devices) - but I've seen no data to support that and no indication of what they mean by "many". Consideration of the basic physics, in which the near field is ¼ ? or less and limited to only a few times the size of the resonator, that does not suggest that something the size of a phone could be coupled efficiently over more than ~ 1 m.
1 m. would be just great IMHO. Several family members could be using iOS devices, sitting around the kitchen counter for example, while all were being recharged.
I've seen that claim - near-field resonant magnetic coupling over large distances (many times the size of the devices) - but I've seen no data to support that and no indication of what they mean by "many". Consideration of the basic physics, in which the near field is ¼ ? or less and limited to only a few times the size of the resonator, that does not suggest that something the size of a phone could be coupled efficiently over more than ~ 1 m.
1 m. would be just great IMHO. Several family members could be using iOS devices, sitting around the kitchen counter for example, while all were being recharged.
I completely agree - that would be much better than having to plug in the devices and definitely worthwhile. I'm just not sure about the long-range concepts.
You are misunderstanding the technology. The energy is not being transported via radiative EM waves but by near-field magnetic coupling. Not only do those fields not decrease with the square of distance, but since it is resonant rather than radiative the rate and efficiency are decoupled. Near-field high-Q coupling of that kind can achieve much higher than 80% efficiency. We've had this discussion before though.
1. Still waiting for the evidence that it's over 80% in the real world.
2. Even if true, it certainly doesn't allow for 80% in the case that people are requesting several meters distance).
3. Even if it were true that the efficiency were 90%, it's still a significant amount of wasted energy.
In any event, if you've had that many broken connectors, then you need to handle your devices with a little more respect. In all the phones, tablets, and laptops around our house, we never had a failure - with just one exception. I had a MacBook Pro which had the first version of MagSafe and it failed at the connect. Since Apple admitted it was a design failure, they replaced it at no charge.
^ Exact same here. What do people do to wear out connectors? Swing your phone around by the cord? Unplug by yanking the cord at a weird angle instead of pulling on the plug itself?
Until they can make it work at 1m range minimum, IMO it's actually less convenient. Plugging in a cord takes what, a second, maybe two? But at least then you can move your device around without losing power. You can hold it up to your ear to make a call, play a power-sucking 3D game, check that text message that just came in without hunching over the charge etc. Not to mention the extra weight/thickness/cost it adds.... kudos to Samsung for making it an option at least for the sake of those who don't want it.
My prediction: Apple will implement wireless charging as soon as they can make it work at a 5 foot range. No soon, no later.
You are misunderstanding the technology. The energy is not being transported via radiative EM waves but by near-field magnetic coupling. Not only do those fields not decrease with the square of distance, but since it is resonant rather than radiative the rate and efficiency are decoupled. Near-field high-Q coupling of that kind can achieve much higher than 80% efficiency. We've had this discussion before though.
1. Still waiting for the evidence that it's over 80% in the real world.
2. Even if true, it certainly doesn't allow for 80% in the case that people are requesting several meters distance).
3. Even if it were true that the efficiency were 90%, it's still a significant amount of wasted energy.
Not sure what you define as real world - 90% transport efficiencies have been reported up to 1 meter or so. Correct that 80% is likely not achievable over several meters, but if your metric for success is whether or not a technology fulfills everyone's dreams then no technology is ever successful.
While I agree that energy conservation is important, 90% is actually pretty good efficiency for a charging system, especially when we are talking about low-power devices. The case for wireless is certainly easier to make if it permits powering, rather than charging, devices, but if, for example, an inductive charging station were able to charge multiple devices and models then there might be other associated savings in charging equipment manufacturing.
Okay something load sensitive so it would shut down when there wasn't a power draw of a unit sitting on it I could somewhat see.
Now in a wireless sync and update world wireless power would be consistent. Though I'm not quite feeble enough to find having to insert the connector all that daunting a challenge.....
Would never leave this plugged in so it wouldn't be of any use to me. Not interested in running up my electrical bill for something as gimmicky as 'wireless' charging. DVR's have already been found to use more electricity in a month than refrigerators. This wouldn't use nearly as much vampire power but still more than I'd like just have such a minor convenience.
Yeah, but what if the smart field could detect if a compatible device was in range and only turn on the recharge field in that case. Turning on a Bluetooth receiver ever few seconds and doing doing a quick "anyone there" check would use hardly any power. Likely there are more efficient ways to do it - just tossing darts right now.
In any event, if you've had that many broken connectors, then you need to handle your devices with a little more respect.
True, I do often let the kids and grandkids get the devices, and they're not always gentle. It's still another reason inductive charging would be nice.
Plus, of course, the MagSafe break was not my fault:
Quote:
In all the phones, tablets, and laptops around our house, we never had a failure - with just one exception. I had a MacBook Pro which had the first version of MagSafe and it failed at the connect. Since Apple admitted it was a design failure, they replaced it at no charge.
Yeah, after I drove to the Apple Store and paid for the replacement charger, I later found out that it was a known problem. Apparently that's why they asked if I had a Genius appointment. Why would I need a Genius appointment if everyone knew it was a recall item? Cannot this be done by anyone else in the store? Instead, they made me pay full price.
this shows how out of touch iphone uers are with whats going on in the android world.
Samsung galaxy s3 has since it was released supported wireless charging with an official (or aftermarket) replacement battery cover. as well as the NOTE 2, etc.
additionally, so has RIM for some time..
QI charging is "cool" but who wants to charge with a 650-700ma charger when you can with a 2-2.1A charger?
Loved wireless charging on WebOS devices, especially the way they went into a different mode with speakerphone, etc.
We've had too many charging connectors break on other well used portable devices, from HTC phones to my MacBook's frayed MagSafe (that an Apple Store charged me $80 to replace because I "didn't have an appointment to see a Genius to knock the price down").
Now what would be really nice (but not likely) is if everyone had compatible chargers.
I just hate the potential loss of energy efficiency when it comes to charging these things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
I've seen various efficiency estimates for wireless charging. The BEST indicates that efficiency might hit 80% under the most ideal circumstances - but that's the ones where the device is in contact with the charger. But let's assume the most efficient 80% possible.
While I don't doubt you read that, I've never personally read claims that were that high. Personally I hope they go really conservative on adoption with this one. As you pointed out, it's a lot of electricity due to the widespread nature of the devices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling
Yeah, after I drove to the Apple Store and paid for the replacement charger, I later found out that it was a known problem. Apparently that's why they asked if I had a Genius appointment. Why would I need a Genius appointment if everyone knew it was a recall item? Cannot this be done by anyone else in the store? Instead, they made me pay full price.
Chargers are one of my biggest complaints. They like to make them compact, but there isn't an option for one that can drive the machine under heavy loads without leveraging the battery, which of course adds cycles while plugged in. That is truly ridiculous that they wouldn't just treat it as a recall item by default.
If they built this tech into an iMac or Mac mini how sweet would that be - if it could auto charge keyboard, trackpad/mouse and phone/pad/pod that are within a meter of the computer. No extra wires - it just works
Wireless charging is a pointless fad, surely it'd be better and more efficient to have a magsafe inspired pad that actually made contact to a pair of contacts on the back or base of the phone. The magnets could orientate the phone or the magnets and contacts could sit on a rotating platform so it span into the correct position.
The fact is, any charging that requires a pad for it to sit on is a step back.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
"Apple is likely to adopt the wireless charging technology developed internally," the report said,
As long as it is compatible with other devices's wireless charging technology. What we do NOT need is a wireless charger for each and every device.
1 m. would be just great IMHO. Several family members could be using iOS devices, sitting around the kitchen counter for example, while all were being recharged.
Galaxy S3 has wireless charging already. Probably rather important to include that in this article.
I'd be extremely surprised if it wasn't, at the very least, an add-on for the S4 or, possibly built it standard.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/04/verizon-samsung-galaxy-s3-wireless-charging-kit/
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry
I've seen that claim - near-field resonant magnetic coupling over large distances (many times the size of the devices) - but I've seen no data to support that and no indication of what they mean by "many". Consideration of the basic physics, in which the near field is ¼ ? or less and limited to only a few times the size of the resonator, that does not suggest that something the size of a phone could be coupled efficiently over more than ~ 1 m.
1 m. would be just great IMHO. Several family members could be using iOS devices, sitting around the kitchen counter for example, while all were being recharged.
I completely agree - that would be much better than having to plug in the devices and definitely worthwhile. I'm just not sure about the long-range concepts.
1. Still waiting for the evidence that it's over 80% in the real world.
2. Even if true, it certainly doesn't allow for 80% in the case that people are requesting several meters distance).
3. Even if it were true that the efficiency were 90%, it's still a significant amount of wasted energy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Yeah, wireless chargers never break. /s
In any event, if you've had that many broken connectors, then you need to handle your devices with a little more respect. In all the phones, tablets, and laptops around our house, we never had a failure - with just one exception. I had a MacBook Pro which had the first version of MagSafe and it failed at the connect. Since Apple admitted it was a design failure, they replaced it at no charge.
^ Exact same here. What do people do to wear out connectors? Swing your phone around by the cord? Unplug by yanking the cord at a weird angle instead of pulling on the plug itself?
Until they can make it work at 1m range minimum, IMO it's actually less convenient. Plugging in a cord takes what, a second, maybe two? But at least then you can move your device around without losing power. You can hold it up to your ear to make a call, play a power-sucking 3D game, check that text message that just came in without hunching over the charge etc. Not to mention the extra weight/thickness/cost it adds.... kudos to Samsung for making it an option at least for the sake of those who don't want it.
My prediction: Apple will implement wireless charging as soon as they can make it work at a 5 foot range. No soon, no later.
Taiwan tech industry publication DigiTimes… …citing unnamed industry sources.
"Yo! Ted! Got any new scoops from your grandson?"
"Yeah, hang on, here's the tape…"
*click*
"Awww, you know what'd be cool? If you could shoot electricity around the room! Neeerrrr, neeeerrrr, bzzzzzzt! Aughlalughl…"
…
"So wireless power, then?"
"Sounds about right."
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry
You are misunderstanding the technology. The energy is not being transported via radiative EM waves but by near-field magnetic coupling. Not only do those fields not decrease with the square of distance, but since it is resonant rather than radiative the rate and efficiency are decoupled. Near-field high-Q coupling of that kind can achieve much higher than 80% efficiency. We've had this discussion before though.
1. Still waiting for the evidence that it's over 80% in the real world.
2. Even if true, it certainly doesn't allow for 80% in the case that people are requesting several meters distance).
3. Even if it were true that the efficiency were 90%, it's still a significant amount of wasted energy.
Not sure what you define as real world - 90% transport efficiencies have been reported up to 1 meter or so. Correct that 80% is likely not achievable over several meters, but if your metric for success is whether or not a technology fulfills everyone's dreams then no technology is ever successful.
While I agree that energy conservation is important, 90% is actually pretty good efficiency for a charging system, especially when we are talking about low-power devices. The case for wireless is certainly easier to make if it permits powering, rather than charging, devices, but if, for example, an inductive charging station were able to charge multiple devices and models then there might be other associated savings in charging equipment manufacturing.
Okay something load sensitive so it would shut down when there wasn't a power draw of a unit sitting on it I could somewhat see.
Now in a wireless sync and update world wireless power would be consistent. Though I'm not quite feeble enough to find having to insert the connector all that daunting a challenge.....
Yeah, but what if the smart field could detect if a compatible device was in range and only turn on the recharge field in that case. Turning on a Bluetooth receiver ever few seconds and doing doing a quick "anyone there" check would use hardly any power. Likely there are more efficient ways to do it - just tossing darts right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
In any event, if you've had that many broken connectors, then you need to handle your devices with a little more respect.
True, I do often let the kids and grandkids get the devices, and they're not always gentle. It's still another reason inductive charging would be nice.
Plus, of course, the MagSafe break was not my fault:
Quote:
In all the phones, tablets, and laptops around our house, we never had a failure - with just one exception. I had a MacBook Pro which had the first version of MagSafe and it failed at the connect. Since Apple admitted it was a design failure, they replaced it at no charge.
Yeah, after I drove to the Apple Store and paid for the replacement charger, I later found out that it was a known problem. Apparently that's why they asked if I had a Genius appointment. Why would I need a Genius appointment if everyone knew it was a recall item? Cannot this be done by anyone else in the store? Instead, they made me pay full price.
Samsung galaxy s3 has since it was released supported wireless charging with an official (or aftermarket) replacement battery cover. as well as the NOTE 2, etc.
additionally, so has RIM for some time..
QI charging is "cool" but who wants to charge with a 650-700ma charger when you can with a 2-2.1A charger?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling
Loved wireless charging on WebOS devices, especially the way they went into a different mode with speakerphone, etc.
We've had too many charging connectors break on other well used portable devices, from HTC phones to my MacBook's frayed MagSafe (that an Apple Store charged me $80 to replace because I "didn't have an appointment to see a Genius to knock the price down").
Now what would be really nice (but not likely) is if everyone had compatible chargers.
I just hate the potential loss of energy efficiency when it comes to charging these things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
I've seen various efficiency estimates for wireless charging. The BEST indicates that efficiency might hit 80% under the most ideal circumstances - but that's the ones where the device is in contact with the charger. But let's assume the most efficient 80% possible.
While I don't doubt you read that, I've never personally read claims that were that high. Personally I hope they go really conservative on adoption with this one. As you pointed out, it's a lot of electricity due to the widespread nature of the devices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling
Yeah, after I drove to the Apple Store and paid for the replacement charger, I later found out that it was a known problem. Apparently that's why they asked if I had a Genius appointment. Why would I need a Genius appointment if everyone knew it was a recall item? Cannot this be done by anyone else in the store? Instead, they made me pay full price.
Chargers are one of my biggest complaints. They like to make them compact, but there isn't an option for one that can drive the machine under heavy loads without leveraging the battery, which of course adds cycles while plugged in. That is truly ridiculous that they wouldn't just treat it as a recall item by default.
Originally Posted by realized
this shows how out of touch iphone uers are with whats going on in the android world.
We just couldn't care less.
QI charging is "cool" but who wants to charge with a 650-700ma charger when you can with a 2-2.1A charger?
Who wants to charge wirelessly when it wastes more power than is transferred and isn't actually wireless?
Well as a Nokia 920 owner as well, the pad charging thing is kinda cool.
Wireless charging is a pointless fad, surely it'd be better and more efficient to have a magsafe inspired pad that actually made contact to a pair of contacts on the back or base of the phone. The magnets could orientate the phone or the magnets and contacts could sit on a rotating platform so it span into the correct position.
The fact is, any charging that requires a pad for it to sit on is a step back.