"Apple has been looking to block class action status for their suit, claiming that the plaintiffs are unable to demonstrate harm or to even prove their claims.
"
That's a tough call. It does look as though apple are saying "we are not willing to tell you what we do, now prove that we are indeed doing what you think we are doing" .
I shouldn't imagine that such practices endear them to judges.
The most popular free apps on Apple's iOS platform are sharing significantly more user data
I don't think you read or understood what was being reported...
Free apps on iOS may transfer more information, but the user has to give those apps permission to access most of that data. Maybe you were confused by the use of the word "leak" which is sometimes used to refer to ill-gotten data, here it just is used to mean transferred over the network.
Quote: "Apple's own assurances that it is complying with court orders to turn over evidence in a privacy lawsuit are insufficient according to the judge presiding over the case, who has ruled that the company must now turn over all documents related to the matter."
Yes, and that'd almost certainly violate the very privacy that this lawsuit is supposed to be protecting.
Personally, I think these lawyers suing Apple are blowing hot air. I looked at the location data on my iPhone. It included locations I've never been, a strong indication those locations were the cell tower my phone was using. That vague locale is something my cell company always knows, so it is hardly a big deal. And all the data revealed is that I was in NW Seattle. Since I live and work there, it's hardly a great revelation.
This lawsuit illustrates what greedy tort lawyers often do. They find some petty complaint that affects millions of alleged complainants and file a class action lawsuit. Check the history of the lawsuits filed against Apple and you'll notice a consistent pattern. Those allegedly hurt get a pittance, typically $5-20. Given the paperwork that has to be done, those who claim are likely to be earning less than the minimum wage for their labors of claiming. That's not accidental.
On the other hand, the tort lawyers make out like the bandits they are, billing perhaps $400/hour for their often inflated time totals (i.e. any part of an hour billed as an hour). They and Apple's lawyers work out the cozy little deal that benefits on the lawyers. Paying millions of allegedly harmed consumers any significant sum would cost Apple a fortune, so those payments are small and, by mutual agreement, accompanied by troublesome filing woes. On the other hand, the lawyers who filed the lawsuit, because there's just a few of them, can make well into the six figures for a few months work. Paying them off is cheaper than either continuing the fight in court or actually paying any significant money to the alleged clients.
My own sense is that the courts should track just how much money is claimed by the 'victims' and when it's less than what their lawyers want to collect by some ratio, say 10 to 1, the lawyers get not a penny for their time. After all, why should the supposedly harmed, get a measly $10 when the lawyer, who's supposed to be looking out for their interests, rakes in $100,000? These lawyers ought to be glad they're not getting disbarred for these sorts of 'enrich the lawyer' settlements.
One final note. Our legal system is screwed up and it's going to stay that way until we quit electing Democrats who, as any quick check on political donations will demonstrate, are in the pockets of these greedy and unprincipled tort lawyers.
I had some sympathy for your post until the last sentence. To suggest that the USA has attained the dubious honour of being the most litigious country in the world is the result of democrats is rather trite.
That's a tough call. It does look as though apple are saying "we are not willing to tell you what we do, now prove that we are indeed doing what you think we are doing" .
I shouldn't imagine that such practices endear them to judges.
Well when you're being asked to turn over information regarding how you review apps that could in fact give hackers inside information that render your app approval system insecure... yeah I'd be a little hesitant giving that information away.
You're batting for 1,000 today. Google does in fact sell data. I'm simply in awe someone actually claims they don't.
It's possible they do, but do you have some reference for claiming it? I've requested one from several different members and no one has been able to come up with one yet.
You're batting for 1,000 today. Google does in fact sell data. I'm simply in awe someone actually claims they don't.
We're not getting bogged down with this question again are we? Google sell services based on personal data, they do not sell personal data. It was asked several times in a recent thread for someone to provide hard evidence that Google sells personal information, and yet no-one has been able to do that. I wonder why?
"Apple has been looking to block class action status for their suit, claiming that the plaintiffs are unable to demonstrate harm or to even prove their claims.
"
That's a tough call. It does look as though apple are saying "we are not willing to tell you what we do, now prove that we are indeed doing what you think we are doing" .
I shouldn't imagine that such practices endear them to judges.
I would think it would be hard to prove they are doing something (or not) without actually taking a look. I would think the Judge (and possibly lawyers from both sides?) could take a look and determine it without making it public.
Despite your erroneous beliefs, Google actually respects privacy far more than Apple. And Android makes it more difficult for developers to access your personal data than iOS....
Instead of spouting the latest popular pro-Apple rhetoric, maybe you should do a little research...
A company business model that depend on user information for profit have this moral standard for privacy. Yeah, I can see why Google really respects my privacy. Google say they respects my privacy so it got to be true, right?
Ugh, privacy advocates are so delusional. In terms of real world comparison, people actually expect to go to an establishment (website), wearing their ID in their forehead (IP address, username, password, etc), and expect the owner of the establishment to treat you like they don't know who you are.
Wear a hoody (Tor browser, proxy) if you don't wanna be recognized.
For the nitpickers: I don't care if they sell it, use it, or place it up Sergey Brin's rectum.
Respect. My. Goddamn. Privacy.
This is laughable. Collecting WIFI information? Any wifi-capable device does this automatically, collecting SSIDs, IP addresses, etc... - if your WIFI network has a lock on it (as it should), nothing sensitive is getting leaked.
The Safari breach? Cookies? Really? Not like it's an exploit to steal information. It's a cookie - browsers have used them since the beginning of time...
How about conveniently whitewashing the fact that iOS apps can transmit data to their developers without permission from the user?
We're not getting bogged down with this question again are we? Google sell services based on personal data, they do not sell personal data. It was asked several times in a recent thread for someone to provide hard evidence that Google sells personal information, and yet no-one has been able to do that. I wonder why?
Typical. Twisting around what was said. I never claimed Google is selling "your specific personal information" but they are selling information about you and your online habits to companies that request it.
This is laughable. Collecting WIFI information? Any wifi-capable device does this automatically, collecting SSIDs, IP addresses, etc... - if your WIFI network has a lock on it (as it should), nothing sensitive is getting leaked.
The Safari breach? Cookies? Really? Not like it's an exploit to steal information. It's a cookie - browsers have used them since the beginning of time...
How about conveniently whitewashing the fact that iOS apps can transmit data to their developers without permission from the user?
Despite your erroneous beliefs, Google actually respects privacy far more than Apple. And Android makes it more difficult for developers to access your personal data than iOS....
Instead of spouting the latest popular pro-Apple rhetoric, maybe you should do a little research...
Yeah, they so respect my privacy they force me to sign in all their accounts at once.
Would you like to know how they just keep their stolen datas even when they're supposed to delete them by court order?
The Safari breach? Cookies? Really? Not like it's an exploit to steal information. It's a cookie - browsers have used them since the beginning of time...
Use without user's consent and Apple's knowledge. You lost your credibility right there. It's pathetic the world has people like you who defend anything just to win an argument.
I would think it would be hard to prove they are doing something (or not) without actually taking a look. I would think the Judge (and possibly lawyers from both sides?) could take a look and determine it without making it public.
Agreed. regulatory bodies regularly assess confidential information and the world (thus far) has not crashed.
I should imagine that checks and balances already exist to prevent "time wasters" and that the Apple defence (of insisting that the their opponents prove their case before the case can proceed) is little more than posturing.
I am not suggesting that Apple have actually broken the law and I wouldn't expect anyone to hoist themselves with their own petard but the onus is on the person/organisation collecting private information to prove that they are complying with the law.
Comments
"Apple has been looking to block class action status for their suit, claiming that the plaintiffs are unable to demonstrate harm or to even prove their claims.
"
That's a tough call. It does look as though apple are saying "we are not willing to tell you what we do, now prove that we are indeed doing what you think we are doing" .
I shouldn't imagine that such practices endear them to judges.
Quote:
Originally Posted by malta
The most popular free apps on Apple's iOS platform are sharing significantly more user data
I don't think you read or understood what was being reported...
Free apps on iOS may transfer more information, but the user has to give those apps permission to access most of that data. Maybe you were confused by the use of the word "leak" which is sometimes used to refer to ill-gotten data, here it just is used to mean transferred over the network.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkling
Quote: "Apple's own assurances that it is complying with court orders to turn over evidence in a privacy lawsuit are insufficient according to the judge presiding over the case, who has ruled that the company must now turn over all documents related to the matter."
Yes, and that'd almost certainly violate the very privacy that this lawsuit is supposed to be protecting.
Personally, I think these lawyers suing Apple are blowing hot air. I looked at the location data on my iPhone. It included locations I've never been, a strong indication those locations were the cell tower my phone was using. That vague locale is something my cell company always knows, so it is hardly a big deal. And all the data revealed is that I was in NW Seattle. Since I live and work there, it's hardly a great revelation.
This lawsuit illustrates what greedy tort lawyers often do. They find some petty complaint that affects millions of alleged complainants and file a class action lawsuit. Check the history of the lawsuits filed against Apple and you'll notice a consistent pattern. Those allegedly hurt get a pittance, typically $5-20. Given the paperwork that has to be done, those who claim are likely to be earning less than the minimum wage for their labors of claiming. That's not accidental.
On the other hand, the tort lawyers make out like the bandits they are, billing perhaps $400/hour for their often inflated time totals (i.e. any part of an hour billed as an hour). They and Apple's lawyers work out the cozy little deal that benefits on the lawyers. Paying millions of allegedly harmed consumers any significant sum would cost Apple a fortune, so those payments are small and, by mutual agreement, accompanied by troublesome filing woes. On the other hand, the lawyers who filed the lawsuit, because there's just a few of them, can make well into the six figures for a few months work. Paying them off is cheaper than either continuing the fight in court or actually paying any significant money to the alleged clients.
My own sense is that the courts should track just how much money is claimed by the 'victims' and when it's less than what their lawyers want to collect by some ratio, say 10 to 1, the lawyers get not a penny for their time. After all, why should the supposedly harmed, get a measly $10 when the lawyer, who's supposed to be looking out for their interests, rakes in $100,000? These lawyers ought to be glad they're not getting disbarred for these sorts of 'enrich the lawyer' settlements.
One final note. Our legal system is screwed up and it's going to stay that way until we quit electing Democrats who, as any quick check on political donations will demonstrate, are in the pockets of these greedy and unprincipled tort lawyers.
I had some sympathy for your post until the last sentence. To suggest that the USA has attained the dubious honour of being the most litigious country in the world is the result of democrats is rather trite.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungover
That's a tough call. It does look as though apple are saying "we are not willing to tell you what we do, now prove that we are indeed doing what you think we are doing" .
I shouldn't imagine that such practices endear them to judges.
Well when you're being asked to turn over information regarding how you review apps that could in fact give hackers inside information that render your app approval system insecure... yeah I'd be a little hesitant giving that information away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee
You're batting for 1,000 today. Google does in fact sell data. I'm simply in awe someone actually claims they don't.
It's possible they do, but do you have some reference for claiming it? I've requested one from several different members and no one has been able to come up with one yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee
You're batting for 1,000 today. Google does in fact sell data. I'm simply in awe someone actually claims they don't.
We're not getting bogged down with this question again are we? Google sell services based on personal data, they do not sell personal data. It was asked several times in a recent thread for someone to provide hard evidence that Google sells personal information, and yet no-one has been able to do that. I wonder why?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungover
"Apple has been looking to block class action status for their suit, claiming that the plaintiffs are unable to demonstrate harm or to even prove their claims.
"
That's a tough call. It does look as though apple are saying "we are not willing to tell you what we do, now prove that we are indeed doing what you think we are doing" .
I shouldn't imagine that such practices endear them to judges.
I would think it would be hard to prove they are doing something (or not) without actually taking a look. I would think the Judge (and possibly lawyers from both sides?) could take a look and determine it without making it public.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeb85
Google actually respects privacy far more than Apple.
Funniest. Post. Ever.
Stephen Conroy accuses Google of biggest privacy breach in Western world:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/media/conroy-accuses-google-of-biggest-privacy-breach-in-western-world/story-e6frg996-1225871306422
Google gets fined €100,000 for privacy breach in France:
http://www.stateofsearch.com/google-gets-fined-e100000-for-privacy-breach-in-france/
Google 'faces $22.5m fine over Safari privacy breach':
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/jul/10/google-fine-iphone-ipad-privacy
The Google 'Don't Be Evil' Laundry List:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Google
For the nitpickers: I don't care if they sell it, use it, or place it up Sergey Brin's rectum.
Respect. My. Goddamn. Privacy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeb85
Despite your erroneous beliefs, Google actually respects privacy far more than Apple. And Android makes it more difficult for developers to access your personal data than iOS....
Instead of spouting the latest popular pro-Apple rhetoric, maybe you should do a little research...
A company business model that depend on user information for profit have this moral standard for privacy. Yeah, I can see why Google really respects my privacy. Google say they respects my privacy so it got to be true, right?
Wear a hoody (Tor browser, proxy) if you don't wanna be recognized.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR
Stephen Conroy accuses Google of biggest privacy breach in Western world:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/media/conroy-accuses-google-of-biggest-privacy-breach-in-western-world/story-e6frg996-1225871306422
Google gets fined €100,000 for privacy breach in France:
http://www.stateofsearch.com/google-gets-fined-e100000-for-privacy-breach-in-france/
Google 'faces $22.5m fine over Safari privacy breach':
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/jul/10/google-fine-iphone-ipad-privacy
The Google 'Don't Be Evil' Laundry List:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Google
For the nitpickers: I don't care if they sell it, use it, or place it up Sergey Brin's rectum.
Respect. My. Goddamn. Privacy.
This is laughable. Collecting WIFI information? Any wifi-capable device does this automatically, collecting SSIDs, IP addresses, etc... - if your WIFI network has a lock on it (as it should), nothing sensitive is getting leaked.
The Safari breach? Cookies? Really? Not like it's an exploit to steal information. It's a cookie - browsers have used them since the beginning of time...
How about conveniently whitewashing the fact that iOS apps can transmit data to their developers without permission from the user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefoid
We're not getting bogged down with this question again are we? Google sell services based on personal data, they do not sell personal data. It was asked several times in a recent thread for someone to provide hard evidence that Google sells personal information, and yet no-one has been able to do that. I wonder why?
Typical. Twisting around what was said. I never claimed Google is selling "your specific personal information" but they are selling information about you and your online habits to companies that request it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeb85
This is laughable. Collecting WIFI information? Any wifi-capable device does this automatically, collecting SSIDs, IP addresses, etc... - if your WIFI network has a lock on it (as it should), nothing sensitive is getting leaked.
The Safari breach? Cookies? Really? Not like it's an exploit to steal information. It's a cookie - browsers have used them since the beginning of time...
How about conveniently whitewashing the fact that iOS apps can transmit data to their developers without permission from the user?
Another idiot to add to the block list.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee
Another idiot to add to the block list.
Yes, can't have your deeply held religious beliefs challenged...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeb85
This is laughable.
Failure to respect someone's privacy is never laughable, you clown.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeb85
Despite your erroneous beliefs, Google actually respects privacy far more than Apple. And Android makes it more difficult for developers to access your personal data than iOS....
Instead of spouting the latest popular pro-Apple rhetoric, maybe you should do a little research...
Yeah, they so respect my privacy they force me to sign in all their accounts at once.
Would you like to know how they just keep their stolen datas even when they're supposed to delete them by court order?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling
In short, Apple fans here have a history of defending all the previous decisions of this judge.
I have no problem with his demanding. Whatever it is, Apple should just provide evidences as required.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeb85
The Safari breach? Cookies? Really? Not like it's an exploit to steal information. It's a cookie - browsers have used them since the beginning of time...
Use without user's consent and Apple's knowledge. You lost your credibility right there. It's pathetic the world has people like you who defend anything just to win an argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheUnfetteredMind
I would think it would be hard to prove they are doing something (or not) without actually taking a look. I would think the Judge (and possibly lawyers from both sides?) could take a look and determine it without making it public.
Agreed. regulatory bodies regularly assess confidential information and the world (thus far) has not crashed.
I should imagine that checks and balances already exist to prevent "time wasters" and that the Apple defence (of insisting that the their opponents prove their case before the case can proceed) is little more than posturing.
I am not suggesting that Apple have actually broken the law and I wouldn't expect anyone to hoist themselves with their own petard but the onus is on the person/organisation collecting private information to prove that they are complying with the law.