What will it take for you to.....
Buy a new Pro desktop Mac?
It's quite scary how far back our BMW's are falling behind, but in any event, what can SJ and co do to get you to throw your money at them?
Realistic, honest stuff please. We know a dual 2.5ghz G5 isn't happening for 2002/3 (/4
), but really, what does apple need to do at MWNY to get your $$?
For me, I only have the money for the bottom, possibly the middle (darn high margins), but there is no way I am going to get an SP pro mac these days. So, I'd like duals across the line, or at least the top 2.
- 1GHZ dual / 1.2GHZ dual / 1.4GHZ dual (all with 2MB L3 cache)
- 333MHZ bus (possibly using RapidIO)
- 512MB / 512MB / 1024MB DDR333 all round
- ATA100 (133 please)
- 80GB / 100GB / 120GB HDD's
- FireWire2 at 800mbps cable, 1600mbps fibre
- New sound system, with 5.1 and optical support
- Nvidia Geforce5MX (due July, plus the 4MX is a dog, really 2MX+) with some form of OSX acceleration
Even if they fell a bit below the specs listed above, I'd consider one. 512MB RAM is needed in a pro machine (even for prosumer work, 256MB was by far not enough I found in X). Big HDD's are needed (very common on 'the other side').
Oh also, with the CURRENT PRICES, or a $100-200 drop on all models if they skimp on say RAM/HDD.
I think that would make them pretty competitive, wouldn't you say?
It's quite scary how far back our BMW's are falling behind, but in any event, what can SJ and co do to get you to throw your money at them?
Realistic, honest stuff please. We know a dual 2.5ghz G5 isn't happening for 2002/3 (/4
), but really, what does apple need to do at MWNY to get your $$?For me, I only have the money for the bottom, possibly the middle (darn high margins), but there is no way I am going to get an SP pro mac these days. So, I'd like duals across the line, or at least the top 2.
- 1GHZ dual / 1.2GHZ dual / 1.4GHZ dual (all with 2MB L3 cache)
- 333MHZ bus (possibly using RapidIO)
- 512MB / 512MB / 1024MB DDR333 all round
- ATA100 (133 please)
- 80GB / 100GB / 120GB HDD's
- FireWire2 at 800mbps cable, 1600mbps fibre
- New sound system, with 5.1 and optical support
- Nvidia Geforce5MX (due July, plus the 4MX is a dog, really 2MX+) with some form of OSX acceleration
Even if they fell a bit below the specs listed above, I'd consider one. 512MB RAM is needed in a pro machine (even for prosumer work, 256MB was by far not enough I found in X). Big HDD's are needed (very common on 'the other side').
Oh also, with the CURRENT PRICES, or a $100-200 drop on all models if they skimp on say RAM/HDD.
I think that would make them pretty competitive, wouldn't you say?
Comments
I want good sound. I want sound equivallent to what a PC desktop offers. 5.1 THX certified, and all with cool apple design.
The best graphic card out there. This should go hand in hand with an improved focus on gaming. I would love to have a true mac gaming system. I think apples on the right path, they just need to be more aggressive about it.
Basically, I just dont want to feel that I'm sacrificing anything.... that's pretty much what it comes down to. Their current pro-desktops make me feel as if I can put my money in better offerings. The eMac has my attention for a budget system, so does the powerbook... but the Pro line and the g3 (blah) iBooks leave me wanting more.
Speed, I just want OS-X to be faster than everything out there in every category. Is that too much to ask?
My windows, etc, open and close pretty responsively on my PBG4. Nothing objectionable, and not much different than the equivalent opoerations on the Dual 933 Xeons running Win2k that I use from time to time. Under load, my mac is actually much more responsive than is the Xeon machine. I haven't yet determined what all the fuss is about, aside from waiting an extra second for a program to load.
As for THX 5.1 yadda yadda, you can get an SB Live card, same as the ones in your friend's PC.
What apple would have to do:
Hmm. . . since I'm not in the desktop market, they would have to offer something wicked fast at a low price. So I'll just use the Power book as a reference instead.
-1.2 GHz Apollo G4, lower power, etc.
-Updated Bus. 200Mhz? Who knows.
- slightly updated design (more than new vent placement)
- New ATi Graphics Card
- Fluid-Dynamic-Bearing cooling fan
[quote]As for THX 5.1 yadda yadda, you can get an SB Live card, same as the ones in your friend's PC.<hr></blockquote>
Thats one of the problems - you can't. Creative basically have dropped ALL support. There hasn't been an OS9 driver update (so they remain utterly buggy), and there is no OSX drivers. That card is a non-option. Would be nice however for support for it (for existing owners), and the audigy to be offered (ahem apple, stop adding CDRW drive support every update, and add this?
The mac, a pro machine, is lagging behind in audio. We don't have audio in
Sound, both what you WANT (sound card, 5.1 etc), and sound you dont want (fan noise) need to be worked on
- 1.5GHZ dual / 2GHZ dual / 2.5GHZ dual (all with 2MB L3 cache or something better) G5
- 400MHZ bus (possibly using RapidIO)
- 512MB / 512MB / 1024MB DDR333 all round
- ATA133)
- 100GB / 160GB / 200GB HDD's - since apple developed firewire and SJ originally believed that it would become a standard for internal HDs couldn't apple develop a new internal fast firewire HD?
- FireWire2 at 800mbps cable
- New sound system, with 5.1 and optical support
- Nvidia Quadro graphics card or better still a custom designed integrated graphics subsystem (kinda SGI) with Aqua acceleration
- at least 4 ram slots
- A faster superdrive with full DVD-RW support
- OS X to be MUCH faster with more GUI and the Unix underpinnings better hidden
- Pro audio In/Out
well, I can dream . . .
- dual 2 GHz G4 (G5 would be better),
- 4.3 GBps memory bus,
- 2+ GBps system bus (RapidIO, HyperTransport, or 3GIO),
- PCIX slots,
- Nvidia Quadro graphics card or better,
- FireWire 2 @ 1600 Mbps (don't need fiber for this, it's copper---only need fiber for the 3200 Mbps),
- USB 2 (for the non-FireWire but fast peripherals),
- A faster superdrive with full DVD-RW and DVD+RW support,
- new sound system, with 5.1 and optical support, and
- ATA133 or better.
(I don't care that much for bundled RAM, since we can get it far cheaper on the open market.)[ 05-01-2002: Message edited by: Halliday ]</p>
This isn't asking that much, and I'm seriously hoping (expecting even) that it arrives at MWNY. I suspect that with double the memory bandwidth and a 50% higher clock many people will be surprised by how competitive the PowerMac is with current top end x86 solutions. If the faster G4 includes more execution units, better bus, on-chip memory controller, etc etc that's all just a welcome bonus -- but most of it I wouldn't bet on until '03 arrives.
What I'd like to see happen is for Apple to split the Power Mac line into two (sort of like the G4 Cube strategy): a workstation line and a desktop line.
What I really want is a 20.1" 1800x1200 aspect ratio LCD monitor for about 1500$. That leaves me about 1300$ for a computer. So what I what to see is a redesigned G4 Cube style Mac with GHz 7460/7470 G4, 2 to 4 MB backside DDR SRAM cache, 1 AGP 4x slot, 1 PCI slot, 2.1 GT/s MPX bus, 3 PC2100 slots, 1 full height disk drive bay, combo drive, and the usual accoutrements of ports.
So, visualize the G4 Cube, tip it forward so it's laying on its front, heighten it by 8", and deepen by 2". To access the internals, it's the same thing as the Cube, just pull the whole thing out of its shell. Apple can sell this for $1200 to $1800.
The workstation line would be all dual processor, redundent power supply, 6 slot, 3 external drive bay, 4 hard drive bay, 20x20x9 inch beasties that Apple could sell for $1600 to $3000.
The rest of you are smoking some high grade ganja
TING5
[ 05-01-2002: Message edited by: There is no g5 ]</p>
As for noise, i find my G4 466 to be quiet. Are the Quicksilvers really louder than the 466?.........................
Lemon Bon Bon :cool:
So where does that leave most people who need more than one drive-bay and don't need redundant power supplies?</strong>
Tough nuggies for them.
The same place they are now, pretty much. Look at the prices I listed. They are essentially the same range as the current Power Mac, so they are free features if they get this line of machine. Redundant power supplies just mean more reliable machines, so it's a feature.
And as far as I know, the current El Capitan Power Mac case has only one 5.25" drive bay. It does not have 2 5.25" drives bays. So, this proposed mid-range Power Mac is essentially the same as the current Power Mac except for the loss of 3 PCI slots and the optional zip drive.
This seems like a reasonable expectation. As Steve666 suggested, no one wants a dog of an OS: we want a jaguar. So c'mon Apple. Pounce and trounce. Modest paw steps are more likely, however.
------------
Still Waiting in Music City USA
G4 1.5 Dual with new mobo (RIO, DDR, etc.)
ATA 100 or 133
Faster SuperDrive
Better be silent...
Accelerated Quartz (GPU)
FireWire 2 & USB 2
Bluetooth Enabled
Wireless Keyboard & (2 buttons) Mouse (bluetooth)
5.1 Digital Sound
and a jaguar...
DDR 333
some faster bus technology (Rapid IO, Hypertransport, whatever)
better FPU performance
a bundle discount when I buy an Apple monitor
Is that so much to ask?
<strong>Price of $1299 at most. Don't give a rats ass about the specs, but at least 256 Mb RAM. faster OSX-OSX 10.1.4 is a DOG of an OS. Nice to look at, but twice as slow as OS9-and thaat ain't progress.
As for noise, i find my G4 466 to be quiet. Are the Quicksilvers really louder than the 466?.........................</strong><hr></blockquote>
OS X is not uniformly slow, just some parts of the GUI. Networking is much faster than OS 9, so is AppleScript. My scripts really fly in OS X.
Ihave a QS 867. It is occaisionally a little noisy. I think the fans themselves are not too bad but sometimes one of the fans will casuse a buzzing noise. Also, some of the grille's are mismatched making for a little more noise. There are some fairly easy things you can do to quiet it down.
But anyway, since I most likely won't be buying a new dual-GHz system, my wish list so far:
1) DDR. I really believe that most major applications, especially ones that I'm interested in (Photoshop et. al.) are terribly bandwidth limited, which DDR will help alleviate.
2) dual or quad CPUs. I've bought my last single CPU Mac. Especially with MOSX, duals just degrade far more gracefully.
3) 5.1 sound! I want DTS out to accompany my DVD! Especially if I'm burning my own DVDs and making my own iMovies, I don't just want stereo- I want to be able to do directional effects! Also, for DVD playback, I want proper 5.1 to accompany adaptive deinterlacing and temporal anti-aliasing. If I'm going to pay a premium, I want my premium benefits.
4) Built-in hardware IDE RAID. I'm good at keeping backups, and this is the most inexpensive way of increasing disk performance to scale better with CPU speed.
5) High speed switched bus like RIO or HyperTransport would be nice. A lot of the stuff I want to do involves shuttling around a large amount of data. Especially in a multiple CPU environment, things will scale better with a switched topology.
Of course, on the other hand, I will definitely admit to looking at buying a used Cube... the idea of a completely silent (especially when the disk has gone to sleep) computer is a really attractive one. I'd bring it out into the living room, and attach it to both an HDTV and a good amplifier. Talk about convergence! My only complaint would be the lack of DTS, but maybe there's some third party somewhere that's building a firewire receiver which would accept a DTS signal from the Cube...
Anyway, we'll see what happens in July. Hopefully something big.
-HOS