Yes seriously. ALL of our food has been modified, there's less nutrients in the soil, there's more pollution in the air, I can go on and on.
True or not that has nothing to do with your original claim of being taxed "2-3x." I feel taxed by this conversation but I'm not claiming it's "2-3x" despite you now moving your argument to a new topic.
One of the biggest problems in today's economic reality is that by carefully selecting jurisdictions, the biggest corporations can choose what taxes to pay - if any. This doesn't exactly create a level playing field for various businesses, and undermines the social contract of a society.
That highlights one of the biggest problems with this topic - uninformed people who think that they're experts on tax laws because they've read a couple of headlines.
In fact, corporations can't simply select where they want to pay taxes. In almost every country, you pay taxes where the money is earned. If you earn a profit in Ireland, that's where you pay taxes on the profit.
Now, there are some transfer pricing schemes that you can use to reduce the amount slightly, but the kind of forum shopping that you're describing just doesn't exist.
True or not that has nothing to do with your original claim of being taxed "2-3x." I feel taxed by this conversation but I'm not claiming it's "2-3x" despite you now moving your argument to a new topic.
Buy organic. It tastes better¡
Paying tax on top of tax is being taxed 2-3X. Organic food comes from seeds of modified foods.
The government gets what it deserves. It makes the rules, so it can't complain if people or entities use the rules to lawfully avoid taxes. The rules were such that I paid $0 in income taxes for 2011. I pissed at myself that I have to pay about 5% for 2012. Obviously, I didn't follow the rules closely enough last year.
They tax your gas to drive to work and then charge you for registering your car with includes taxes, and they make you buy auto insurance, and then they tax your income that you use to pay for the home you live in which is also taxed. And you can't even go buy yourself something pretty to make yourself feel better about it because there are sales tax, and you can't call anyone to complain about it because your phone service is taxed. It's all just so…taxing¡
They tax your gas to drive to work and then charge you for registering your car with includes taxes, and they make you buy auto insurance, and then they tax your income that you use to pay for the home you live in which is also taxed. And you can't even go buy yourself something pretty to make yourself feel better about it because there are sales tax, and you can't call anyone to complain about it because your phone service is taxed. It's all just so…taxing¡
I understand that there's taxes everywhere in one form or another, I'm specifically talking about taxed tax. When we pay tax on top of tax. Items that have sales tax for the added federal, state and city tax. Furthermore I wasn't the one to change the subject, you and Tallest did.
Just one thought on "Pressure mounts on Apple". HA HA HA HA HA !!!!!!! What a load of crap.
Apple will never return this money to the US as long as the tax code in offshore countries is friendlier.... It will never happen. And all the Political blow-hards on capitol hill can keep on pissing and moaning till they pass out from hypoxia (lack of oxygen). As long as the tax structure here does not favor repatriation it will never happen.
Apple is not alone. There is not a single company google, amazon, microsoft ect., ect, ect. that will ever capitulate as long as the tax is better in another country. They all do this. Apple is not guilty of doing anything illegal.
Also a lot of that money needs to stay in the countries that it is in to provide money for operations in those countries.
Articles like these do one thing, Create click bate and we just helped
They tax your gas to drive to work and then charge you for registering your car with includes taxes, and they make you buy auto insurance, and then they tax your income that you use to pay for the home you live in which is also taxed. And you can't even go buy yourself something pretty to make yourself feel better about it because there are sales tax, and you can't call anyone to complain about it because your phone service is taxed. It's all just so…taxing¡
Reminds me of the Beatles song Taxman LOL.
Quote:
Now let me tell you how it will be, There's one for you nineteen for me, .....Cause I'm the Taxman, yeah I'm the taxman........
The problem is they make all their money in the US and get the advantages of being a US corporation, take what they can out of the system, but don't pay in.
Actually from the last quarter results 1st quarter 2013, apple made 20.341 billion in the us. Yes that is there largest income but when you combine all other countries outside the US from apples own report Apple made 34.171 billion outside the US so Apple did not make all of there money in the US, in fact they made Most of there money outside the US. Apple paid 6 billion in federal corporate income taxes for 2012 in the US which amounted to 1 dollar in every 40 federal dollars collected by the US government for corporate income tax for 2012. So I would say that they do pay there fare legal share of corporate tax. And they DID pay in.
And is it fair that you get taxed 2-3X? No it's not. But the answer isn't to make others suffer something that's unfair to begin with. The answer should be to figure out a way so you aren't taxed 2-3X.
I remember reading somewhere that Apple had accrued the amount of tax liability that they would have to pay if they repatriated their overseas cash. Unfortunately, I don't have a source at the moment. I could be wrong.
And is it fair that you get taxed 2-3X? Because if something isn't fair to you, the answer isn't to wish it on someone else. The answer is to make it so that that unfair action is not visited upon you. Maybe there's a way to make it so that you don't have get taxed 2-3X.
"Studies looking at the tax holiday, though, found no evidence of strong job creation. The companies, instead, used the money to repurchase shares and pay dividends."
How about splitting the difference. Isn't that what Apple and others want to negotiate? Half a holiday -- 17.5% maybe? Some tax revenue, maybe some dividend loot, maybe some jobs to boot.
US citizens who live abroad have to pay US taxes on income above a certain exclusion in addition to the other country's taxes, regardless of where the money is.
The fine for not paying is very severe, and if you are really rich and want to renounce your citizenship, well, congress doesn't like that. Remember that Facebook guy?
OK, you are making a good point, but you have some of your basic facts wrong. Apple has become such a global player that they make less than 40% of their $$$ here in the US. (This is a seasonal number, of course, due to iPhone releases in the states being huge, but still it gets nowhere near "most" as you indicate.) Nevertheless, Apple probably does pull some accounting stunts to avoid paying a fraction of US earnings, too. So you might want to modify your argument in the future. That way you can still make a good point without getting bashed by someone on a technicality.
Thompson
Thanks for the correction without the usual bashing Should probably word it US is (currently) their biggest market or most of Apples profits are made outside Ireland but most profits are claimed in Ireland.
Either way the arguments I hear often are the original one "We shouldn't tax them on profits made outside the US" which I agree with. But they simply use a 'paper trick' to make their profits outside the US.
Reality:
Phone bought in China for $200....... Phone actually sold in US for $800.... Profit in US $600 Taxes that should be paid to US... $215
Paper:
Phone bought in Chaina for $200 by Apples Irish subsidiary. Apple Irish sub sells to Apple Dutch sub with IP rights for $800... Apple Irish sub buys back from Dutch sub for $800.... Irish Sub sells to US sub for $800 and deposits the $600 profit in wholly owned Bahamian subsidiary bank. Since Apple US bought the phone for "$800" and sold it for "$800" they made no profit in the US. The bahamians are more than happy to give a 1% tax rate to corporations. They don't support a military to defend the rights of those companies, provide an extensive court system to defend their IP, subsidize their factories with taxpayer money or really anything else.... Its just free money to them. Profit inside US $0. Taxes paid in US $0. Profits outside US.. $600 Through the various benefits of tax breaks from the dance steps they take they pay some insanely low tax rate.
For the US (and the other countries other than Ireland and the Bahamas) it is pretty damaging. Not only do corporations not pay taxes, they actually get to claim the taxes they do pay offshore as 'foreign taxes paid' as a tax deduction within the US or put it in some accounting limbo 'permanently reinvested fund'. I think it was GE who pretty famously made several billion in record profits one year and managed to end up with substantial ($1 billion+ ?) tax credit from the US. The real profits are US dollars coming from US laborers inside the US, but once you buy the product and the profits recorded offshore that money is sucked outside of US circulation and does not return.
US citizens who live abroad have to pay US taxes on income above a certain exclusion in addition to the other country's taxes, regardless of where the money is.
The fine for not paying is very severe, and if you are really rich and want to renounce your citizenship, well, congress doesn't like that. Remember that Facebook guy?
Is it fair for a US citizen to have to pay a dime in taxes to the US on income earned overseas? I don't think it is. And if it is unfair to begin with, why is there talk about making companies pay tax on overseas income? Why not make it so that both individuals and corporations pay tax only on income earned in the US?
"Studies looking at the tax holiday, though, found no evidence of strong job creation. The companies, instead, used the money to repurchase shares and pay dividends."
How about splitting the difference. Isn't that what Apple and others want to negotiate? Half a holiday -- 17.5% maybe? Some tax revenue, maybe some dividend loot, maybe some jobs to boot.
Why is the US government entitled to one f***ing dime of money earned by companies overseas? At least if it's earned in the US, one could say that they're using US infrastructure so it's fair to pay US taxes. But it was earned overseas. Apple used other countries' infrastructure in order to earn those profits.
Various governments around the world, particularly those in the EU. Specifically, those countries there that are missing out on the taxes. And here as well.
Out of control spending has gotten more governments in trouble than the citizens of those countries.
Really? The truth is that citizens want the services. Like it or not, those services cost more over time. Everyone takes advantage of those things, the expenditures for which they complain about. Now, some people in countries where they demanded all of those services are thinking that just maybe they can't afford all of it. When economic times are good, people demand much. But when times are bad, they don't want to pay for them. The problem is that when times are bad, they need them more.
Comments
True or not that has nothing to do with your original claim of being taxed "2-3x." I feel taxed by this conversation but I'm not claiming it's "2-3x" despite you now moving your argument to a new topic.
Buy organic. It tastes better¡
That highlights one of the biggest problems with this topic - uninformed people who think that they're experts on tax laws because they've read a couple of headlines.
In fact, corporations can't simply select where they want to pay taxes. In almost every country, you pay taxes where the money is earned. If you earn a profit in Ireland, that's where you pay taxes on the profit.
Now, there are some transfer pricing schemes that you can use to reduce the amount slightly, but the kind of forum shopping that you're describing just doesn't exist.
Paying tax on top of tax is being taxed 2-3X. Organic food comes from seeds of modified foods.
They tax your gas to drive to work and then charge you for registering your car with includes taxes, and they make you buy auto insurance, and then they tax your income that you use to pay for the home you live in which is also taxed. And you can't even go buy yourself something pretty to make yourself feel better about it because there are sales tax, and you can't call anyone to complain about it because your phone service is taxed. It's all just so…taxing¡
I understand that there's taxes everywhere in one form or another, I'm specifically talking about taxed tax. When we pay tax on top of tax. Items that have sales tax for the added federal, state and city tax. Furthermore I wasn't the one to change the subject, you and Tallest did.
Just one thought on "Pressure mounts on Apple". HA HA HA HA HA !!!!!!! What a load of crap.
Apple will never return this money to the US as long as the tax code in offshore countries is friendlier.... It will never happen. And all the Political blow-hards on capitol hill can keep on pissing and moaning till they pass out from hypoxia (lack of oxygen). As long as the tax structure here does not favor repatriation it will never happen.
Apple is not alone. There is not a single company google, amazon, microsoft ect., ect, ect. that will ever capitulate as long as the tax is better in another country. They all do this. Apple is not guilty of doing anything illegal.
Also a lot of that money needs to stay in the countries that it is in to provide money for operations in those countries.
Articles like these do one thing, Create click bate and we just helped
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
They tax your gas to drive to work and then charge you for registering your car with includes taxes, and they make you buy auto insurance, and then they tax your income that you use to pay for the home you live in which is also taxed. And you can't even go buy yourself something pretty to make yourself feel better about it because there are sales tax, and you can't call anyone to complain about it because your phone service is taxed. It's all just so…taxing¡
Reminds me of the Beatles song Taxman LOL.
Quote:
Now let me tell you how it will be, There's one for you nineteen for me, .....Cause I'm the Taxman, yeah I'm the taxman........
Isn't that the honest truth lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frood
The problem is they make all their money in the US and get the advantages of being a US corporation, take what they can out of the system, but don't pay in.
Actually from the last quarter results 1st quarter 2013, apple made 20.341 billion in the us. Yes that is there largest income but when you combine all other countries outside the US from apples own report Apple made 34.171 billion outside the US so Apple did not make all of there money in the US, in fact they made Most of there money outside the US. Apple paid 6 billion in federal corporate income taxes for 2012 in the US which amounted to 1 dollar in every 40 federal dollars collected by the US government for corporate income tax for 2012. So I would say that they do pay there fare legal share of corporate tax. And they DID pay in.
And is it fair that you get taxed 2-3X? No it's not. But the answer isn't to make others suffer something that's unfair to begin with. The answer should be to figure out a way so you aren't taxed 2-3X.
I remember reading somewhere that Apple had accrued the amount of tax liability that they would have to pay if they repatriated their overseas cash. Unfortunately, I don't have a source at the moment. I could be wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
We get taxed 2-3X why shouldn't they?
And is it fair that you get taxed 2-3X? Because if something isn't fair to you, the answer isn't to wish it on someone else. The answer is to make it so that that unfair action is not visited upon you. Maybe there's a way to make it so that you don't have get taxed 2-3X.
How about splitting the difference. Isn't that what Apple and others want to negotiate? Half a holiday -- 17.5% maybe? Some tax revenue, maybe some dividend loot, maybe some jobs to boot.
US citizens who live abroad have to pay US taxes on income above a certain exclusion in addition to the other country's taxes, regardless of where the money is.
The fine for not paying is very severe, and if you are really rich and want to renounce your citizenship, well, congress doesn't like that. Remember that Facebook guy?
http://business.time.com/2012/06/22/renouncing-your-citizenship-to-stick-it-to-the-tax-man-not-as-easy-as-it-looks/
What about companies?
Quote:
Originally Posted by thompr
OK, you are making a good point, but you have some of your basic facts wrong. Apple has become such a global player that they make less than 40% of their $$$ here in the US. (This is a seasonal number, of course, due to iPhone releases in the states being huge, but still it gets nowhere near "most" as you indicate.) Nevertheless, Apple probably does pull some accounting stunts to avoid paying a fraction of US earnings, too. So you might want to modify your argument in the future. That way you can still make a good point without getting bashed by someone on a technicality.
Thompson
Thanks for the correction without the usual bashing
Either way the arguments I hear often are the original one "We shouldn't tax them on profits made outside the US" which I agree with. But they simply use a 'paper trick' to make their profits outside the US.
Reality:
Phone bought in China for $200....... Phone actually sold in US for $800.... Profit in US $600 Taxes that should be paid to US... $215
Paper:
Phone bought in Chaina for $200 by Apples Irish subsidiary. Apple Irish sub sells to Apple Dutch sub with IP rights for $800... Apple Irish sub buys back from Dutch sub for $800.... Irish Sub sells to US sub for $800 and deposits the $600 profit in wholly owned Bahamian subsidiary bank. Since Apple US bought the phone for "$800" and sold it for "$800" they made no profit in the US. The bahamians are more than happy to give a 1% tax rate to corporations. They don't support a military to defend the rights of those companies, provide an extensive court system to defend their IP, subsidize their factories with taxpayer money or really anything else.... Its just free money to them. Profit inside US $0. Taxes paid in US $0. Profits outside US.. $600 Through the various benefits of tax breaks from the dance steps they take they pay some insanely low tax rate.
For the US (and the other countries other than Ireland and the Bahamas) it is pretty damaging. Not only do corporations not pay taxes, they actually get to claim the taxes they do pay offshore as 'foreign taxes paid' as a tax deduction within the US or put it in some accounting limbo 'permanently reinvested fund'. I think it was GE who pretty famously made several billion in record profits one year and managed to end up with substantial ($1 billion+ ?) tax credit from the US. The real profits are US dollars coming from US laborers inside the US, but once you buy the product and the profits recorded offshore that money is sucked outside of US circulation and does not return.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister
US citizens who live abroad have to pay US taxes on income above a certain exclusion in addition to the other country's taxes, regardless of where the money is.
The fine for not paying is very severe, and if you are really rich and want to renounce your citizenship, well, congress doesn't like that. Remember that Facebook guy?
http://business.time.com/2012/06/22/renouncing-your-citizenship-to-stick-it-to-the-tax-man-not-as-easy-as-it-looks/
What about companies?
Is it fair for a US citizen to have to pay a dime in taxes to the US on income earned overseas? I don't think it is. And if it is unfair to begin with, why is there talk about making companies pay tax on overseas income? Why not make it so that both individuals and corporations pay tax only on income earned in the US?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ottoworks
"Studies looking at the tax holiday, though, found no evidence of strong job creation. The companies, instead, used the money to repurchase shares and pay dividends."
How about splitting the difference. Isn't that what Apple and others want to negotiate? Half a holiday -- 17.5% maybe? Some tax revenue, maybe some dividend loot, maybe some jobs to boot.
Why is the US government entitled to one f***ing dime of money earned by companies overseas? At least if it's earned in the US, one could say that they're using US infrastructure so it's fair to pay US taxes. But it was earned overseas. Apple used other countries' infrastructure in order to earn those profits.
deleted: unnecessary insult
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Various governments around the world, particularly those in the EU. Specifically, those countries there that are missing out on the taxes. And here as well.
That was in the article?
Really? The truth is that citizens want the services. Like it or not, those services cost more over time. Everyone takes advantage of those things, the expenditures for which they complain about. Now, some people in countries where they demanded all of those services are thinking that just maybe they can't afford all of it. When economic times are good, people demand much. But when times are bad, they don't want to pay for them. The problem is that when times are bad, they need them more.