Before a new round of Kormac rimming begins, with Nostrodamus holding the k-man's cheeks wide open so some unsuspecting newbies can take a big slurp, let's go over the fact that Kormac HAS NEVER HAD any inside info. He DOES have entertaining speculation, outlandish and unlikely, but entertaining. But this i**** has been floating around the boards for over two years. Apple and everyone else who makes electronic gadgets is always tinkering on smaller gadgets with greater convergence. That's the nature of technology. If you predict something long enough, it will eventually get made, that doesn't mean you knew anything about it's development except for general trends, proof of concepts, press-conferences, etc etc... The WHOLE INDUSTRY KNOWS these devices are in the works because that's where the trends point, lighter, faster, smaller, increased A/V and wired/wireless function.
So know i**** like devices are popping up here and there. Big Deal. ther have been plenty of concepts published to the web over the past 3-4 years that cover every possibility, and draw a map of every future standard. It doesn't take much to collect those ideas and pass them off as rumor.
Well, inkwell has finally been revealed. Now if it is part of OS X, then one would think that there is some plan to use it. No current Apple hardware allows one to enter handwritting. Perhaps the touchpads on powerbooks and ibooks? Perhaps the much anticipated i**** v2? Perhaps something we have not discussed. Something that has an input screen but runs OS X?
<strong>Well, inkwell has finally been revealed. Now if it is part of OS X, then one would think that there is some plan to use it. No current Apple hardware allows one to enter handwritting. Perhaps the touchpads on powerbooks and ibooks? Perhaps the much anticipated i**** v2? Perhaps something we have not discussed. Something that has an input screen but runs OS X?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Cell phone/PDA (already exists) with Bluetooth tied to a mac OS X, piece a cake.
[quote]Other announcements include a handwriting recognition service called Inkwell, available to applications right now, which perhaps paves the way for tablet-based Macs in the future. <hr></blockquote>
Interesting. According to theRegister it's available now. Perhaps there is something coming sooner than we think.
No, I don't see that Kormac, not for quite some time, maybe eventually, but not yet. But I do see the handheld and why people (especially on these boards) will NEED one after MWNY.
fran, i'd like to ask a question of you. does the oqo computer look anything like what you had seen of the project that apple pulled? kormac seems to be pushing a theory in another thread that the oqo was something that was developed by apple but the engineers took it out of house to produce it on their own (presumably because apple decided not to bring it to market).
OMG, this covert Apple pulled the project bullshit is still going on? NOTHING was pulled. Just about every major computer maker in the world has probably been working on different miniaturization schemes for the past 5 years. Things you neither see nor are EVER intended to see 'cause they aren't built with an eye to production. They're built for learning, for experience. A form of research if you will. Does Apple have an iPad? Probably, yes. They most likely have dozens of little OSX/QT capable bricks, slates, pads, PDA's, permutations of Newton? So what? They're made, studied, destroyed, and remade. This is so bloody far from actual product development, it's a combination of whimsy, study, design, concept testing, practice, etc etc... Better to think of this as a form of proto-development, not product development.
We won't see any PDA or tablet from Apple untill the market allows for it to be simultaneously cheap/profitable, fast, and actually useful. Current technology doesn't, it only produces e-toys of questionable utility. We're getting there but we're not there yet. Once we arrive the only predictive value of these speculations/wishes will be their general predictive value to the industry as a whole -- technology moves fast and eventually catches up to demands, everything here could just as well predict future products from IBM, Sony, Palm, Toshiba, anybody...
There has not ever been any true inside info about a tablet or PDA.
[quote]There has not ever been any true inside info about a tablet or PDA.<hr></blockquote>
Ok then, let me ask you a few simple questions.
1.) Why Bluetooth?
2.) Why Inkwell?
3.) Why not?
The uses and demand for an Apple PDA would be unbelievable. After the iPod was introduced, I thought that Apple had taken Inkwell off of the table and that Bluetooth wouldn't hit the Mac like it has. But now, those two technologies are key features on the Mac (or are destined to be).
4. Why would Apple utilitze these technologies if they could not profit from them?
That still has nothing to do with [i]inside info[i/] about a PDA. That is the general diretion of the entire industry. Everything that has been said that is feasible, amounts to products that are smaller, more powerful and better integrated will be released. NO SHIT! Anything specific about how that will happen has been just plain wrong unless it had to do with already approved standards. Even then, it is not a indicative of any inside info to read about an industry standard and say future products will integrate it. Future products tend to integrate new industry standards. Like the following 2 examples:
Take firewire, no one saw it as a charging scheme for iPod and it was right there in front of our faces.
Take Quartz Extreme. I don't know how many times I shot down the idea of a 'Raycer' chip. I even specifically said that any graphics acceleration of the GUI would come from tight/clever OpenGL integration to the graphical layer. But no, people gleefully insisted that it wasn't possible to utilize a resource sitting right there on the MoBo and that it was more likely that a custom 2-D raycer/DSP encoder chip would populate the MoBo for this task. In another thread (discussing OpenGL) I even called the hardware spec exactly -- 2MX and Radeon and up. Do I get any respect? Nope. Like Rodney Dangerfield, I am, <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> 'cause people were too busy delluding themselves that some tech-boy fantasy was indeed inside info.
I'm telling you the same thing here. There is no basis or track-record on which to assume any i**** is likely and there hasn't been for over 2 years.
Bluetooth is on/scheduled for lots of competing laptops, phones, PDA's, Sony cameras, printers. It's a big list that doesn't point to a PDA or tablet at all.
InkWell technology has been around for ages and it's integration now points to nothing aswell. For two reasons. Firstly, bluetooth was coming for the reasons above whether or not an inkwell ever existed. Their appearance now is just timing driven by the need to get as many new technologies into an emerging OS and the desire to stay current with the state of wireless I/O and peripherals (especially with bluetooth enabled internet capable phones on theri way to N.Am.) Secondly, this OS has to go another 15 years, there are many alternative inputs, accessibility, gesture recognition, and UI navigation schemes that will evolve over that time. [aside: Same with speech.] Electronic signatures for e-commerce, security authentication, the graphics design community, new takes on ergonomics.
For example:
I could tell you that there are two main problems with mice and graphics pads. The ergos of even a very good mouse are terrible for you, and you can't use them anywhere.
Combining Bluetooth and InkWell, I could postulate a very compelling device that is neither PDA nor tablet, more usefull and less obtrusive than both, and fully integrated into OSX.
Here you go:
A pen is a much more natural navigation device than a mouse.
A bluetooth transmitter can be positively miniscule (see SD-card bluetooth adaptors)
OSX supports bluetooth.
A tablet is limited to the surface of the tablet.
Bluetooth is not.
Add it all up. What do you get? A wireless pressure sensitive pen input that works on any surface and communicates over bluetooth. About the size of a Sharpie it charges in a dock that could be integrated into future products or via a firewire/USB plug. When in close proximity to the bluetooth adaptor in your Mac it centers its position with a tap on the desk surface. Moving outwards from that point, it controls the cursor on your screen, brushes, menus through gesture recogition, which also help it to scroll documents quickly or edit word files and spread-sheets using pen strokes just like a prof marking up your essay. tap on the desk surface to click icons, smart sensors tell the pen to go dead when you lie it flat or take your hands off it. No laser, no ball. It works by figuring it's location through memory of it's motion relative to the bluetooth device in your mac. If you travel with a notebook you have a mouse substitute that will work anywhere. It's a better ergonomic solution, you can draw with it in a pinch and use it over a sensitivity boosting pad when desk space and location allow.
Is it happening today or the next? Nope. But it could, and when it eventually does it will use a convenient standard of interoperablility (bluetooth in this case) OSX has to be ready for such developments so it includes available technologies as much to provide 'developers' with opportunities to innovate, as to position itself for new products.
A tablet and my wireless GUI-nav/editing/art pen are equally likely. You won't see either untill the market allows. In fact, producing my concept is in many ways an easier marketing prospect than an all out tablet.
[quote] i think I may have some good proof leading to a advancment of the ipod for the
future1.apple has just started to reupload newton software onto its servers. Now get this one of the titles is called newton manager and it is fully carbonated i have not actually used any of these becuase i am forbinden from downloading them without a password yet can still browse <hr></blockquote>
Has anyone else heard about this? I assume he means carbonized. If true, why would Apple bother?
Comments
So know i**** like devices are popping up here and there. Big Deal. ther have been plenty of concepts published to the web over the past 3-4 years that cover every possibility, and draw a map of every future standard. It doesn't take much to collect those ideas and pass them off as rumor.
<strong>Well, inkwell has finally been revealed. Now if it is part of OS X, then one would think that there is some plan to use it. No current Apple hardware allows one to enter handwritting. Perhaps the touchpads on powerbooks and ibooks? Perhaps the much anticipated i**** v2? Perhaps something we have not discussed. Something that has an input screen but runs OS X?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Cell phone/PDA (already exists) with Bluetooth tied to a mac OS X, piece a cake.
[quote]Other announcements include a handwriting recognition service called Inkwell, available to applications right now, which perhaps paves the way for tablet-based Macs in the future. <hr></blockquote>
Interesting. According to theRegister it's available now. Perhaps there is something coming sooner than we think.
<strong>Does anybody remember what I said in the chat room about handwriting and voice? Here we go...</strong><hr></blockquote>
NO I don't. (There's a chat room?)
Please enlighten us instead of what you're doing.
We will see something at MWNY but I don't know what it can be...
<a href="http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=001548"; target="_blank">http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=001548</a>;
Let's imagine
You are the teacher with 20 ~ 40 student. You can use New Apple server "rMac" (?) with 1 tera HD
space.
Your student use netboot to use inkwell based i****v2 to study.
Hehe. The convergence has begun!
[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: Fran441 ]</p>
Who has the inside info? Orders for the correct size displays, case orders, processor orders. Something from the WWDC? There must be hints out there.
We won't see any PDA or tablet from Apple untill the market allows for it to be simultaneously cheap/profitable, fast, and actually useful. Current technology doesn't, it only produces e-toys of questionable utility. We're getting there but we're not there yet. Once we arrive the only predictive value of these speculations/wishes will be their general predictive value to the industry as a whole -- technology moves fast and eventually catches up to demands, everything here could just as well predict future products from IBM, Sony, Palm, Toshiba, anybody...
There has not ever been any true inside info about a tablet or PDA.
Ok then, let me ask you a few simple questions.
1.) Why Bluetooth?
2.) Why Inkwell?
3.) Why not?
The uses and demand for an Apple PDA would be unbelievable. After the iPod was introduced, I thought that Apple had taken Inkwell off of the table and that Bluetooth wouldn't hit the Mac like it has. But now, those two technologies are key features on the Mac (or are destined to be).
4. Why would Apple utilitze these technologies if they could not profit from them?
Take firewire, no one saw it as a charging scheme for iPod and it was right there in front of our faces.
Take Quartz Extreme. I don't know how many times I shot down the idea of a 'Raycer' chip. I even specifically said that any graphics acceleration of the GUI would come from tight/clever OpenGL integration to the graphical layer. But no, people gleefully insisted that it wasn't possible to utilize a resource sitting right there on the MoBo and that it was more likely that a custom 2-D raycer/DSP encoder chip would populate the MoBo for this task.
I'm telling you the same thing here. There is no basis or track-record on which to assume any i**** is likely and there hasn't been for over 2 years.
Bluetooth is on/scheduled for lots of competing laptops, phones, PDA's, Sony cameras, printers. It's a big list that doesn't point to a PDA or tablet at all.
InkWell technology has been around for ages and it's integration now points to nothing aswell. For two reasons. Firstly, bluetooth was coming for the reasons above whether or not an inkwell ever existed. Their appearance now is just timing driven by the need to get as many new technologies into an emerging OS and the desire to stay current with the state of wireless I/O and peripherals (especially with bluetooth enabled internet capable phones on theri way to N.Am.) Secondly, this OS has to go another 15 years, there are many alternative inputs, accessibility, gesture recognition, and UI navigation schemes that will evolve over that time. [aside: Same with speech.] Electronic signatures for e-commerce, security authentication, the graphics design community, new takes on ergonomics.
For example:
I could tell you that there are two main problems with mice and graphics pads. The ergos of even a very good mouse are terrible for you, and you can't use them anywhere.
Combining Bluetooth and InkWell, I could postulate a very compelling device that is neither PDA nor tablet, more usefull and less obtrusive than both, and fully integrated into OSX.
Here you go:
A pen is a much more natural navigation device than a mouse.
A bluetooth transmitter can be positively miniscule (see SD-card bluetooth adaptors)
OSX supports bluetooth.
A tablet is limited to the surface of the tablet.
Bluetooth is not.
Add it all up. What do you get? A wireless pressure sensitive pen input that works on any surface and communicates over bluetooth. About the size of a Sharpie it charges in a dock that could be integrated into future products or via a firewire/USB plug. When in close proximity to the bluetooth adaptor in your Mac it centers its position with a tap on the desk surface. Moving outwards from that point, it controls the cursor on your screen, brushes, menus through gesture recogition, which also help it to scroll documents quickly or edit word files and spread-sheets using pen strokes just like a prof marking up your essay. tap on the desk surface to click icons, smart sensors tell the pen to go dead when you lie it flat or take your hands off it. No laser, no ball. It works by figuring it's location through memory of it's motion relative to the bluetooth device in your mac. If you travel with a notebook you have a mouse substitute that will work anywhere. It's a better ergonomic solution, you can draw with it in a pinch and use it over a sensitivity boosting pad when desk space and location allow.
Is it happening today or the next? Nope. But it could, and when it eventually does it will use a convenient standard of interoperablility (bluetooth in this case) OSX has to be ready for such developments so it includes available technologies as much to provide 'developers' with opportunities to innovate, as to position itself for new products.
A tablet and my wireless GUI-nav/editing/art pen are equally likely. You won't see either untill the market allows. In fact, producing my concept is in many ways an easier marketing prospect than an all out tablet.
[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: Matsu ]</p>
Keep up the great work Korman!
<img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
He's never been right about anything, even when he predicted "good, better, best" he predicted they'd come with LCD's, of various size no less!
i**** is total fantasy
pre macworld the kook was predicting 'rayer' chips on G5 MoBo's. WRONG! raycer will never happen, Quartz extreme should be all the proof you need.
I sure hope you're joking.
yoseffby says:
[quote] i think I may have some good proof leading to a advancment of the ipod for the
future1.apple has just started to reupload newton software onto its servers. Now get this one of the titles is called newton manager and it is fully carbonated i have not actually used any of these becuase i am forbinden from downloading them without a password yet can still browse <hr></blockquote>
Has anyone else heard about this? I assume he means carbonized. If true, why would Apple bother?