I'm interested in seeing what the email actually says. Maybe the reason for not telling customers is not to hide, but so that sales staff don't use this in their sales pitch. And knowing sales people, they will definitely use this or any other tactics to make a sale.
They do charge a premium, average is what 35% profit, heck outside of the US it's probably closer to 45%. But, I did not say that they were charging more than a comparable premium PC, you are the one that brought that analogy up.
You can't possibly define a "premium" without having a "standard" on which to judge it! That is the only possible thing you could think was the standard, and it isn't.
And better than these laws. Because the laws are defect at delivery from the seller. The point is to stop folks from selling lemons that they either know are lemons or didn't reasonably check.
an example. I live in Rome and I go to Pietro's Cell Phones and an iPhone. 4 months later it stops working. Under Italian law I can go to Pietro's and they legally have to repair or replace my phone. But if it happens at 8 months I will likely have to prove the issue was present when I bought it. Which I won't likely be able to prove so they will refuse me. But I can go over to the Apple store and under their 1 year warranty they will replace it. Even if it worked perfectly for 11.5 months. If they can't prove damage I'm covered. If I have Apple care im still covered if it was fine for 23.5 months if there's no damage. But Pietro's can say it worked for over a year so it wasn't a defect at delivery so they don't have to do anything.
A lot of people post interpretations of these laws. I still wonder how they actually work. For example are latent issues covered? There are plenty of things that look like isolated problems initially, yet turn into product recalls. I'm not talking about any individual company. In the case of computers, the cliche examples would be NVidia a few years ago or Seagate drives more recently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Your implication that they cost more than a comparable system is humorous. I thought we'd gotten over that long ago.
But no, I think they should just offer 3 years of AppleCare standard. Not for your reasons, but simply to kick everyone else in the industry in the crotch.
There is a difference in warranty structure. With other oems the warranty length and terms are often tied to the product line. Some of the more expensive products are warrantied 2-3 years by default depending on the oem. The terms of service also vary. In some cases it can be anything from depot repair to next day on site, and of course there are often options to upgrade certain things. With displays in the $800+ price range and desktop workstations (let's say Xeon EP types), I don't personally know of any other companies that use a base one year standard. I know many that use 3 years standard, but again there are levels of service. Options like the genius bar only offer an advantage if you're within driving distance of an Apple Store. I can count 3 within 30 minutes depending on traffic.
You can't possibly define a "premium" without having a "standard" on which to judge it! That is the only possible thing you could think was the standard, and it isn't.
Didn't really want to get this far into it, but you seem unwilling to concede the point. Although almost impossible to get an exact match one could easily start with Dell's XPS ONE 27 range, as close to an iMac as you're going to get at a lower price point. Sure it may not be a mix of glass and aluminium, but it's got Blu Ray and a decent 2GB ram GPU as standard.
Don't get me wrong, I'd take the iMac because I love my Apple Hardware but in terms of specs and design they're pretty darn close.
I've bought plenty of Apple products and the warranty and its length have never been mentioned through the sale. Why should it be any different in Australia?
Because the Australian law is different and requires all manufacturers to give the warranty. Is that so hard to understand ?
Now EU officials themselves are jumping in to complain about Apple's warranty policies in Europe as a whole.
"A senior European Union official said Tuesday that Apple Inc. still isn't informing consumers correctly about their legal warranty rights in many EU member states, as she called for Brussels to take a greater role in shaping a common approach to consumer protection rules.
In a speech Tuesday, the EU's Justice Commissioner Viviane Reding honed in on the Apple case as an example of weak and diverse enforcement of consumer rules within the EU...
"This case and the responses I received since I sent my letter have highlighted rather clearly just why the Commission cannot sit on the side-lines on enforcement issues," she said. "The approaches to enforcement in these types of cases turn out to be very diversified and inconsistent at a national level. In at least 21 EU Member States Apple is not informing consumers correctly about the legal warranty rights they have. This is simply not good enough."
It's becoming increasingly clear that Apple is going to be have to modify their warranty terms at least outside the US. Just make it a standard two years and be done with it. Raise the prices just a bit if they feel they aren't making enough profit due to warranty claims or reduced AppleCare purchases. Here in the US I think they're fine as is.
Now EU officials themselves are jumping in to complain about Apple's warranty policies in Europe as a whole.
AI just posted the 'thing in Belgium'.
Personally I don't think Apple 'needs to do' anything; Apple Care is something different from the mandatory 2 year warranty, which it isn't what many people think it is.
OT, why are your posts littered with html tags? It's a hassle to clean up when replying. Are you using the Rich Text Editor, like KD? Thanks
Personally I don't think Apple 'needs to do' anything; Apple Care is something different from the mandatory 2 year warranty, which it isn't what many people think it is.
OT, why are your posts littered with html tags? It's a hassle to clean up when replying. Are you using the Rich Text Editor, like KD? Thanks
HTML tags? I use the default AI editor.
Anyway, I explained what I think the issue is in the other thread a few minutes ago. I don't think the EU has an issue with AppleCare and there's no reason Apple couldn't continue to sell it as added protection in the form of a maintenance agreement as long as it's properly described. Where Apple gets dinged is by implying or outright stating that there's no warranty coverage whatsoever in the second year unless you pay for the add-on AppleCare.
Anyway, I explained what I think the issue is in the other thread a few minutes ago. I don't think the EU has an issue with AppleCare and there's no reason Apple couldn't continue to sell it as added protection in the form of a maintenance agreement as long as it's properly described. Where Apple gets dinged is by implying or outright stating that there's no warranty coverage whatsoever in the second year unless you pay for the add-on AppleCare.
Of course the EU hasn't any problem with AC, They don't have any problem with the 3 year warranty from B&O. Indeed, they could state it better, for those not in the know. Then again, everyone I know knows about the mandatory 2 year warranty, and what it entails.
Well heck, why isn't the option for BB code in the editor itself instead of the tiny little preferences button at the bottom of the page? Makes as much sense as where Apple puts the iAd tracking control.;)
Comments
I'm interested in seeing what the email actually says. Maybe the reason for not telling customers is not to hide, but so that sales staff don't use this in their sales pitch. And knowing sales people, they will definitely use this or any other tactics to make a sale.
Originally Posted by saarek
They do charge a premium, average is what 35% profit, heck outside of the US it's probably closer to 45%. But, I did not say that they were charging more than a comparable premium PC, you are the one that brought that analogy up.
You can't possibly define a "premium" without having a "standard" on which to judge it! That is the only possible thing you could think was the standard, and it isn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
And better than these laws. Because the laws are defect at delivery from the seller. The point is to stop folks from selling lemons that they either know are lemons or didn't reasonably check.
an example. I live in Rome and I go to Pietro's Cell Phones and an iPhone. 4 months later it stops working. Under Italian law I can go to Pietro's and they legally have to repair or replace my phone. But if it happens at 8 months I will likely have to prove the issue was present when I bought it. Which I won't likely be able to prove so they will refuse me. But I can go over to the Apple store and under their 1 year warranty they will replace it. Even if it worked perfectly for 11.5 months. If they can't prove damage I'm covered. If I have Apple care im still covered if it was fine for 23.5 months if there's no damage. But Pietro's can say it worked for over a year so it wasn't a defect at delivery so they don't have to do anything.
A lot of people post interpretations of these laws. I still wonder how they actually work. For example are latent issues covered? There are plenty of things that look like isolated problems initially, yet turn into product recalls. I'm not talking about any individual company. In the case of computers, the cliche examples would be NVidia a few years ago or Seagate drives more recently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Your implication that they cost more than a comparable system is humorous. I thought we'd gotten over that long ago.
But no, I think they should just offer 3 years of AppleCare standard. Not for your reasons, but simply to kick everyone else in the industry in the crotch.
There is a difference in warranty structure. With other oems the warranty length and terms are often tied to the product line. Some of the more expensive products are warrantied 2-3 years by default depending on the oem. The terms of service also vary. In some cases it can be anything from depot repair to next day on site, and of course there are often options to upgrade certain things. With displays in the $800+ price range and desktop workstations (let's say Xeon EP types), I don't personally know of any other companies that use a base one year standard. I know many that use 3 years standard, but again there are levels of service. Options like the genius bar only offer an advantage if you're within driving distance of an Apple Store. I can count 3 within 30 minutes depending on traffic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
You can't possibly define a "premium" without having a "standard" on which to judge it! That is the only possible thing you could think was the standard, and it isn't.
Didn't really want to get this far into it, but you seem unwilling to concede the point. Although almost impossible to get an exact match one could easily start with Dell's XPS ONE 27 range, as close to an iMac as you're going to get at a lower price point. Sure it may not be a mix of glass and aluminium, but it's got Blu Ray and a decent 2GB ram GPU as standard.
Don't get me wrong, I'd take the iMac because I love my Apple Hardware but in terms of specs and design they're pretty darn close.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilution
I've bought plenty of Apple products and the warranty and its length have never been mentioned through the sale. Why should it be any different in Australia?
Because the Australian law is different and requires all manufacturers to give the warranty. Is that so hard to understand ?
Now EU officials themselves are jumping in to complain about Apple's warranty policies in Europe as a whole.
"A senior European Union official said Tuesday that Apple Inc. still isn't informing consumers correctly about their legal warranty rights in many EU member states, as she called for Brussels to take a greater role in shaping a common approach to consumer protection rules.
In a speech Tuesday, the EU's Justice Commissioner Viviane Reding honed in on the Apple case as an example of weak and diverse enforcement of consumer rules within the EU...
"This case and the responses I received since I sent my letter have highlighted rather clearly just why the Commission cannot sit on the side-lines on enforcement issues," she said. "The approaches to enforcement in these types of cases turn out to be very diversified and inconsistent at a national level. In at least 21 EU Member States Apple is not informing consumers correctly about the legal warranty rights they have. This is simply not good enough."
It's becoming increasingly clear that Apple is going to be have to modify their warranty terms at least outside the US. Just make it a standard two years and be done with it. Raise the prices just a bit if they feel they aren't making enough profit due to warranty claims or reduced AppleCare purchases. Here in the US I think they're fine as is.
http://www.nasdaq.com/article/update-eu-reding-apple-still-not-informing-customers-correctly-about-warranty-rights-in-eu-20130319-00244#.UUheHFs9x-g
AI just posted the 'thing in Belgium'.
Personally I don't think Apple 'needs to do' anything; Apple Care is something different from the mandatory 2 year warranty, which it isn't what many people think it is.
OT, why are your posts littered with html tags? It's a hassle to clean up when replying. Are you using the Rich Text Editor, like KD? Thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie
AI just posted the 'thing in Belgium'.
Personally I don't think Apple 'needs to do' anything; Apple Care is something different from the mandatory 2 year warranty, which it isn't what many people think it is.
OT, why are your posts littered with html tags? It's a hassle to clean up when replying. Are you using the Rich Text Editor, like KD? Thanks
HTML tags? I use the default AI editor.
Anyway, I explained what I think the issue is in the other thread a few minutes ago. I don't think the EU has an issue with AppleCare and there's no reason Apple couldn't continue to sell it as added protection in the form of a maintenance agreement as long as it's properly described. Where Apple gets dinged is by implying or outright stating that there's no warranty coverage whatsoever in the second year unless you pay for the add-on AppleCare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie
OT, why are your posts littered with html tags? It's a hassle to clean up when replying. Are you using the Rich Text Editor, like KD? Thanks
I'm looking for an option to use BB code in the editor but I'm just not seeing i. Could you point me in the right direction?
Perhaps AI should make BB the default rather than Rich Text if it's causing problems. I imagine most posters use the default settings.
Of course the EU hasn't any problem with AC, They don't have any problem with the 3 year warranty from B&O. Indeed, they could state it better, for those not in the know. Then again, everyone I know knows about the mandatory 2 year warranty, and what it entails.
It's in the Preferences, right beneath the posts, a bit to the left, from the middle. IIRC it's a pop-up, with a choice for BBcode or RTE
Could be that the default is RTE, I don't even remember changing anything, but could be.