It is immoral because Governments provide a social climate and physical infrastructure that companies benefit from and therefore should contribute adequately to the provision thereof. In my mind, their duty to shareholders comes a distant third, and behind that and treating their employees fairly. Here in Ireland, the corporate tax rate Apple is misusing to engineer a good part of their massive profits in the EU is 12.5%. Individuals, such as myself, are paying 20% at the low rate and 41% at the higher rate. The disparity is legal, but immoral, in my opinion.
I guess I should never have assumed that you had a rational argument. You clearly don't.
It is your opinion that a company's first responsibility is to society, then to employees, and then to shareholders. That's exactly the way it works ---- in the People's Republic of China. Fortunately, most of the world sees it differently.
If shareholders come in third and literally everyone else takes precedence, why in the world would you invest your money into that organization?
Not to mention, of course, that it makes no sense at all to compare business taxes with individual taxes. Low business taxes mean that there's more left for individuals, anyway. And Apple's not misusing anything. They are following the tax laws written by the politicians. Are you misusing the tax laws when you don't turn over your entire paycheck to the government? I didn't think so.
Ireland has made a decision that they'd rather have the jobs than a higher tax rate. That's an entirely reasonable decision to make. If they chose to double the corporate tax rate and Apple pulled out of Ireland, you'd be one of the first to be screaming bloody murder.
In the end, you're simply throwing out mumbo-jumbo language that you don't understand - and have clearly not thought through.
New Zealand where we have strong consumer laws than. The device needs to be fit for purchase, so if you are willing to stand up for your consumer rights then you will get it repaired past the AppleCare time frame.
Although, if you are travelling a lot, and taking your device over seas a lot, then it may pay to get AppleCare (Assuming Apple is willing to repair the device overseas, they won't always do this, as stipulated in their warranty documents)
New Zealand where we have strong consumer laws than. The device needs to be fit for purchase, so if you are willing to stand up for your consumer rights then you will get it repaired past the AppleCare time frame.
You MAY get it repaired past the end of the warranty period. There is no obligation to do so.
Proving that a device is not fit for purchase is extremely difficult to do - particularly when the device works just fine for 2 years and then stops working. How do you prove that there was a defect at the time of sale?
Proving that a device is not fit for purchase is extremely difficult to do - particularly when the device works just fine for 2 years and then stops working. How do you prove that there was a defect at the time of sale?
I was referring to NZ law, there is no requirement for the fault only to exist at time of sale. If you purchase a $4000 laptop, you can expect it to last at least 5 years, if a fault develops in that time, you can expect them to fix it.
Under NZ law they have to (actually it is the retailer, but this does include Apple)
I was referring to NZ law, there is no requirement for the fault only to exist at time of sale. If you purchase a $4000 laptop, you can expect it to last at least 5 years, if a fault develops in that time, you can expect them to fix it.
Really? Care to point to the New Zealand law that says that they have to fix a laptop for 5 years? I checked a few sites and 2 years is the typical warranty that I've found in NZ.
Really? Care to point to the New Zealand law that says that they have to fix a laptop for 5 years? I checked a few sites and 2 years is the typical warranty that I've found in NZ.
Yes, really.
Now note, I didn't say all laptops, I said $3000 laptops, major difference in which you changed in your posting.
Here is an extract from the CAB which describes parts of the CGA
My computer is not working and its warranty has just expired. What are my options?
You might still be covered by the Consumer Guarantees Act (CGA) even if your warranty has expired. A warranty is in addition to the Consumer Guarantees Act and can’t override or replace it. The CGA says that goods must be durable and last for a reasonable amount of time. The definition of reasonable will depend on the price you paid for the computer and how long ago you bought it. Under the CGA a consumer can choose whether they claim from a retailer or a manufacturer.
The retailer or manufacturer has to sort out any problem that a consumer brings to them that involves a breach of the guarantees in the CGA within a reasonable amount of time. If the problem with your computer can be fixed then the retailer has to get it repaired at no extra charge to you. If the problem is serious then you can choose to get a refund or replacement. For more information, contact your local Citizens Advice Bureau.
PcWorld needs investigating and monitoring. I have apple mac and had no problems with apple but pc world are doing insurance pushing to an exhausting effect .Bought item last week in PcWorld and they went on for an hour going on about their knowhow, three chaps, no matter when I said no they said I was wrong and would regret it,even to extent one day after 12 months up and goes capput and I would have to buy another. I told them there was 2 year EU guarantee and soga and they lied and told me it was not true and persuaded me to take out their insurance and reconsider then cancel which I did. I have never been pressured in an apple store only PcWorld when in this case buying windows product. When I walked off they even approached my son and carried on the hard sell with him to extent he told my son I was making a very silly ill informed mistake not taking out knowhow there and then. In the end we gave in to shut them up and the fact they told us it I would have to pay 30.00 more for product if I did not. I feel the same eu dept that has attached itself to apple need to investigate Pcworld/Currys and a few secret customers due to their commission will soon prove what I say.They cant resist it even to extent of visibly annoyed when you say no as in my case. Anyone know who to contact to get something done welcome to contact me as they are not even returning promised calls and after three hours of my calls to their head office they want to pretend I don't exist by refering back to store who then don't return calls. Thank you for your time.
I on a lighter note even said if a computer like my mac book pro can last three years with me, then it has served its time well. Due to well built case it has survived me sitting on it,dropping it down the stairs etc.....and its still going strong and was not insured extra. I notice this is not an eu forum but thought i would reply as there seems to be a lot of mentions of apple being fined, yet nothing is done or heard about other transgressors who blatantly lied to me.
Exactly what are apple saying about the quality of their phones if they are unwilling to offer free 2 year warrantees as standard? Samsung, Sony, HTC and Nokia all seem confident that their phones will last two years.
PcWorld needs investigating and monitoring. I have apple mac and had no problems with apple but pc world are doing insurance pushing to an exhausting effect .Bought item last week in PcWorld and they went on for an hour going on about their knowhow, three chaps, no matter when I said no they said I was wrong and would regret it,even to extent one day after 12 months up and goes capput and I would have to buy another. I told them there was 2 year EU guarantee and soga and they lied and told me it was not true and persuaded me to take out their insurance and reconsider then cancel which I did. I have never been pressured in an apple store only PcWorld when in this case buying windows product.
When I walked off they even approached my son and carried on the hard sell with him to extent he told my son I was making a very silly ill informed mistake not taking out knowhow there and then. In the end we gave in to shut them up and the fact they told us it I would have to pay 30.00 more for product if I did not.
I feel the same eu dept that has attached itself to apple need to investigate Pcworld/Currys and a few secret customers due to their commission will soon prove what I say.They cant resist it even to extent of visibly annoyed when you say no as in my case.
Anyone know who to contact to get something done welcome to contact me as they are not even returning promised calls and after three hours of my calls to their head office they want to pretend I don't exist by refering back to store who then don't return calls. Thank you for your time.
I on a lighter note even said if a computer like my mac book pro can last three years with me, then it has served its time well. Due to well built case it has survived me sitting on it,dropping it down the stairs etc.....and its still going strong and was not insured extra. I notice this is not an eu forum but thought i would reply as there seems to be a lot of mentions of apple being fined, yet nothing is done or heard about other transgressors who blatantly lied to me.
I am no fan of PC world but they are pushing insurance not a warranty. Their cover additionally protects you from accidental damage.
The exception is if you buy an Apple from you, then they are pushing AppleCare which is a warranty and does not cover accidental damage.
Comments
I guess I should never have assumed that you had a rational argument. You clearly don't.
It is your opinion that a company's first responsibility is to society, then to employees, and then to shareholders. That's exactly the way it works ---- in the People's Republic of China. Fortunately, most of the world sees it differently.
If shareholders come in third and literally everyone else takes precedence, why in the world would you invest your money into that organization?
Not to mention, of course, that it makes no sense at all to compare business taxes with individual taxes. Low business taxes mean that there's more left for individuals, anyway. And Apple's not misusing anything. They are following the tax laws written by the politicians. Are you misusing the tax laws when you don't turn over your entire paycheck to the government? I didn't think so.
Ireland has made a decision that they'd rather have the jobs than a higher tax rate. That's an entirely reasonable decision to make. If they chose to double the corporate tax rate and Apple pulled out of Ireland, you'd be one of the first to be screaming bloody murder.
In the end, you're simply throwing out mumbo-jumbo language that you don't understand - and have clearly not thought through.
New Zealand where we have strong consumer laws than. The device needs to be fit for purchase, so if you are willing to stand up for your consumer rights then you will get it repaired past the AppleCare time frame.
Although, if you are travelling a lot, and taking your device over seas a lot, then it may pay to get AppleCare (Assuming Apple is willing to repair the device overseas, they won't always do this, as stipulated in their warranty documents)
You MAY get it repaired past the end of the warranty period. There is no obligation to do so.
Proving that a device is not fit for purchase is extremely difficult to do - particularly when the device works just fine for 2 years and then stops working. How do you prove that there was a defect at the time of sale?
Under NZ law they have to (actually it is the retailer, but this does include Apple)
I was referring to NZ law, there is no requirement for the fault only to exist at time of sale. If you purchase a $4000 laptop, you can expect it to last at least 5 years, if a fault develops in that time, you can expect them to fix it.
Really? Care to point to the New Zealand law that says that they have to fix a laptop for 5 years? I checked a few sites and 2 years is the typical warranty that I've found in NZ.
Yes, really.
Now note, I didn't say all laptops, I said $3000 laptops, major difference in which you changed in your posting.
Here is an extract from the CAB which describes parts of the CGA
http://www.cab.org.nz/vat/consumer/goods/Pages/Gettinggoodsfixed.aspx#2
This link has links to the CGA
When I walked off they even approached my son and carried on the hard sell with him to extent he told my son I was making a very silly ill informed mistake not taking out knowhow there and then. In the end we gave in to shut them up and the fact they told us it I would have to pay 30.00 more for product if I did not.
I feel the same eu dept that has attached itself to apple need to investigate Pcworld/Currys and a few secret customers due to their commission will soon prove what I say.They cant resist it even to extent of visibly annoyed when you say no as in my case.
Anyone know who to contact to get something done welcome to contact me as they are not even returning promised calls and after three hours of my calls to their head office they want to pretend I don't exist by refering back to store who then don't return calls. Thank you for your time.
I on a lighter note even said if a computer like my mac book pro can last three years with me, then it has served its time well. Due to well built case it has survived me sitting on it,dropping it down the stairs etc.....and its still going strong and was not insured extra. I notice this is not an eu forum but thought i would reply as there seems to be a lot of mentions of apple being fined, yet nothing is done or heard about other transgressors who blatantly lied to me.
Exactly what are apple saying about the quality of their phones if they are unwilling to offer free 2 year warrantees as standard? Samsung, Sony, HTC and Nokia all seem confident that their phones will last two years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingobrewtea
PcWorld needs investigating and monitoring. I have apple mac and had no problems with apple but pc world are doing insurance pushing to an exhausting effect .Bought item last week in PcWorld and they went on for an hour going on about their knowhow, three chaps, no matter when I said no they said I was wrong and would regret it,even to extent one day after 12 months up and goes capput and I would have to buy another. I told them there was 2 year EU guarantee and soga and they lied and told me it was not true and persuaded me to take out their insurance and reconsider then cancel which I did. I have never been pressured in an apple store only PcWorld when in this case buying windows product.
When I walked off they even approached my son and carried on the hard sell with him to extent he told my son I was making a very silly ill informed mistake not taking out knowhow there and then. In the end we gave in to shut them up and the fact they told us it I would have to pay 30.00 more for product if I did not.
I feel the same eu dept that has attached itself to apple need to investigate Pcworld/Currys and a few secret customers due to their commission will soon prove what I say.They cant resist it even to extent of visibly annoyed when you say no as in my case.
Anyone know who to contact to get something done welcome to contact me as they are not even returning promised calls and after three hours of my calls to their head office they want to pretend I don't exist by refering back to store who then don't return calls. Thank you for your time.
I on a lighter note even said if a computer like my mac book pro can last three years with me, then it has served its time well. Due to well built case it has survived me sitting on it,dropping it down the stairs etc.....and its still going strong and was not insured extra. I notice this is not an eu forum but thought i would reply as there seems to be a lot of mentions of apple being fined, yet nothing is done or heard about other transgressors who blatantly lied to me.
I am no fan of PC world but they are pushing insurance not a warranty. Their cover additionally protects you from accidental damage.
The exception is if you buy an Apple from you, then they are pushing AppleCare which is a warranty and does not cover accidental damage.