It seems to me this is excellent for those that don't a consistent money flow. You don't have to invest $600 up front. You can do just $50 per month, or if you're a student just $30 per month. That's not even a night of drinking per month for a college student.
On top of that they they also have the one-month option for $75 (not sure if there is a education version of that). If you have one job you can easily fold that $75 into your fee but trying to fold $600 into your fee or hoping your get more work down the road before you need to update again is much more risky.
While that would be nice, it doesn't quite work that way. Most of their stated monthly rates are for a year paid in advance, even though they break it down to something referred to as monthly. It is also possible to just pay for a month, but the per month rate is higher. The long term costs are potentially higher if you use this for a number of years, but it can be worth it if you don't initially buy in as a student. For example the Master Collection is $2600. Right now CS6 is basically mid cycle. CS7 or whatever would then be an upgrade whenever it arrives. They list it at $50/month based on an annual subscription, so in that case your upfront cost is $600. If the package is updated within that time, you can use the latest version as there are no upgrades with this pricing model. Prior to this it was sometimes possible to wait out bad versions of single applications or creative suite in general, but this didn't mean you could always do so if you stuck with the latest version of OSX. Adobe doesn't tend to go back and validate a ton of older versions of OSX with the newest software, but that happens with a lot of others as well. Some of the student packages are cheaper, so for students it may be worth using the student discount, as those are still eligible for upgrade pricing, which might work out well if the upgrades are $300-400 rather than $600, especially if you initially buy early in a product cycle or late enough that they float you to the next version. Blah I hope I covered everything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid
Adobe: "How can we get people to pay us for software even if they don't upgrade? YES! Subscriptions!"
This is another of your misleading statements. The upgrade policies are still in place. In some areas they did become worse. For example you can only upgrade from the prior version rather than 3 versions back with single applications. With a given version of Creative Suite, upgrade pricing was staggered based on what version you already owned. In terms of subscriptions, you don't buy the initial package if you need more seats today. It's just the subscription rate. Some other companies do similar things. Autodesk and the Foundry use initial pricing + annual maintenance if you want support and the latest versions.
While that would be nice, it doesn't quite work that way. Most of their stated monthly rates are for a year paid in advance, even though they break it down to something referred to as monthly.
Thanks. I had assumed that a listing of x-amount per month for a year was to be paid monthly.
I signed up for creative cloud when it has the $30 promotion. $30 a month for a year is a bargain! It is true I do not use more than photoshop, indesign and illustrator on a daily basis and to have unlimited access to all other tools within the suite opens up other creative possibilities. I might rethink it when the price goes back up to $50/month, for now, I'm actually happy with this subscription service model.
I also used to argue that there is no difference in using CS3 vs CS6 but that is wrong. If you actually know the programs well and use it efficiently you will notice there is a BIG difference. As long as they keep the monthly price affordable, I can see Adobe gaining more subscriptions.
While that would be nice, it doesn't quite work that way. Most of their stated monthly rates are for a year paid in advance, even though they break it down to something referred to as monthly.
Thanks. I had assumed that a listing of x-amount per month for a year was to be paid monthly.
He is wrong. It is not paid in advance. They charge your CC monthly, although I am not sure what happens if you default on the monthly payments while on the yearly contract.
While that would be nice, it doesn't quite work that way. Most of their stated monthly rates are for a year paid in advance, even though they break it down to something referred to as monthly. It is also possible to just pay for a month, but the per month rate is higher. The long term costs are potentially higher if you use this for a number of years, but it can be worth it if you don't initially buy in as a student. For example the Master Collection is $2600. Right now CS6 is basically mid cycle. CS7 or whatever would then be an upgrade whenever it arrives. They list it at $50/month based on an annual subscription, so in that case your upfront cost is $600. If the package is updated within that time, you can use the latest version as there are no upgrades with this pricing model. Prior to this it was sometimes possible to wait out bad versions of single applications or creative suite in general, but this didn't mean you could always do so if you stuck with the latest version of OSX. Adobe doesn't tend to go back and validate a ton of older versions of OSX with the newest software, but that happens with a lot of others as well. Some of the student packages are cheaper, so for students it may be worth using the student discount, as those are still eligible for upgrade pricing, which might work out well if the upgrades are $300-400 rather than $600, especially if you initially buy early in a product cycle or late enough that they float you to the next version. Blah I hope I covered everything.
Nope... the yearly contract is billed monthly.
When you sign up for the yearly contract... they draft the money out of your account every month... for 12 months.
Yes... it works out to $600 a year... but you do not have to fork over $600 upfront.
The other plan is month-to-month for $75 a month. You only pay for the month... no contract... cancel after that month if you want to.
Thanks. I had assumed that a listing of x-amount per month for a year was to be paid monthly.
Okay I have been corrected, but I read the thing as soon as they announced Creative Cloud and the rest of it. I must have misread misread on the annual plan, but you can see the rate differences here. Being billed monthly does further lower the barrier to entry further. The master collection is $2500 in the US and higher in some countries. Some of the other packages are significantly cheaper, but I could definitely see the appeal in monthly billing.
Too bad about Canvas. I never used it. Perhaps Corel Painter would be a reasonable replacement. It gets decent reviews as a better paint and drawing app verses Photoshop which more focused on photo composites where as Painter is more about artistic brushes and paint/paper effects.
I don't know what Paint is like now, I haven't used it in years, but I remember the Phoenix-rising massive epiphany day around 1999 or so when I walked across the building from my CorelDRAW and Paint machine to the new one running Photoshop and Illustrator. Both did the same thing, but the QUALITY of the results was SOOOOO much better with the Adobe products. I've never looked back.
I don't know what Paint is like now, I haven't used it in years, but I remember the Phoenix-rising massive epiphany day around 1999 or so when I walked across the building from my CorelDRAW and Paint machine to the new one running Photoshop and Illustrator. Both did the same thing, but the QUALITY of the results was SOOOOO much better with the Adobe products. I've never looked back.
14 years and 8 versions ago there was a massive difference in features and quality.
It's still only cheaper if you, as a company, are used to upgrading with évery new version.
I don't have the numbers handy anymore, but I think it still works out okay even if you only update every second version. That's what I was doing, and somehow I came to the conclusion that the subscription fee versus the purchase price worked out to a comparison I could accept. That's for the Full Meal Deal though. If you're using, say, Design Standard and don't want or need every single app Adobe offers, it may not be as attractive.
In my particular circumstances the only way to get all the apps I want is to buy the whole schmear. With the subscription I now just budget a monthly amount and always have the latest version without having to worry about shelling out a big chunk of change whenever the next version comes out.
14 years and 8 versions ago there was a massive difference in features and quality.
Like I said, I don't know what the Corel product is like now since I no longer use it. Is Paint now comparable to Photoshop in terms of quality? My daughter is forced to use Draw! to drive signage and engraving equipment, and according to her, it's still as bad as it was way back then -- its inability to correctly interpret Postscript and files created with any other app is legendary, and the seemingly arbitrary rounding of numerical values seems to still exist -- but I don't know anyone who still uses Paint so I haven't heard anything about it.
Like I said, I don't know what the Corel product is like now since I no longer use it. Is Paint now comparable to Photoshop in terms of quality? My daughter is forced to use Draw! to drive signage and engraving equipment, and according to her, it's still as bad as it was way back then -- its inability to correctly interpret Postscript and files created with any other app is legendary, and the seemingly arbitrary rounding of numerical values seems to still exist -- but I don't know anyone who still uses Paint so I haven't heard anything about it.
Your daughter may be using an older Corel version. Our shop has had a different experience with it than she has.
If she's in the sign/engraving business then she's primarily using the vector rather than raster features of Corel in all likelihood. The import options are more extensive than the comparable Illustrator offers, not less and we've had no greater issues with importing common files with CorelDraw than doing so with Illustrator.
Regarding CorelPainter, it offers some features that Photoshop does not and vice-versa. Most commercial users will nearly always prefer Photoshop given those two as choices IMO. I know I do. Artists tho might find CorelPainter a better match.
$30 a month for a year is a bargain! It is true I do not use more than photoshop, indesign and illustrator on a daily basis and to have unlimited access to all other tools within the suite opens up other creative possibilities. I might rethink it when the price goes back up to $50/month, for now, I'm actually happy with this subscription service model.
I think they should have 3 or 4 levels: $5-10/m for an Elements bundle, which can be sold along with computers, stick with $30/m for individual users for the full suite or $10/m per app and they can have $50/m+ for business use (any form of company other than sole traders as they can claim taxes back on it).
I also used to argue that there is no difference in using CS3 vs CS6 but that is wrong. If you actually know the programs well and use it efficiently you will notice there is a BIG difference. As long as they keep the monthly price affordable, I can see Adobe gaining more subscriptions.
It's also the interoperability. If one company upgrades and you have to deal with their files and you have an older version, they'd have to send downgraded files. That heavily goes against the pay upfront model because you might own After Effects 5 and think it's a great deal to use it for 5 years but you just have to need to open an AE 6 file and you're screwed because you have no choice but to immediately pay for an upgrade or full license when you aren't expecting it. A subscription is much more predictable because you know exactly what you pay and when and you can always be up to date.
The argument about Adobe going out of business is entirely valid but where there's a need, someone will fill it. Apple did this with Final Cut. You can't open any project from the old software. With their standalone model, you could still open things but you could similarly import the files into other programs. It's a concern but I wouldn't say it's a big one when Adobe's concerned.
Like I said, I don't know what the Corel product is like now since I no longer use it. Is Paint now comparable to Photoshop in terms of quality? My daughter is forced to use Draw! to drive signage and engraving equipment, and according to her, it's still as bad as it was way back then -- its inability to correctly interpret Postscript and files created with any other app is legendary, and the seemingly arbitrary rounding of numerical values seems to still exist -- but I don't know anyone who still uses Paint so I haven't heard anything about it.
Painter has really nice brushes, although Adobe improved theirs quite a bit with CS6. I don't know if it can open EPS files though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
It's also the interoperability. If one company upgrades and you have to deal with their files and you have an older version, they'd have to send downgraded files. That heavily goes against the pay upfront model because you might own After Effects 5 and think it's a great deal to use it for 5 years but you just have to need to open an AE 6 file and you're screwed because you have no choice but to immediately pay for an upgrade or full license when you aren't expecting it. A subscription is much more predictable because you know exactly what you pay and when and you can always be up to date.
The argument about Adobe going out of business is entirely valid but where there's a need, someone will fill it. Apple did this with Final Cut. You can't open any project from the old software. With their standalone model, you could still open things but you could similarly import the files into other programs. It's a concern but I wouldn't say it's a big one when Adobe's concerned.
They weren't always problematic version to version. I used to skip bad versions when it was possible. There is always an initial period of bug fixes. If most things work as they should beyond that point, I would typically upgrade. Sometimes I had to maintain a version or so back in case others had not upgraded and I needed to test if something would open as intended. With some things bits of files are incompatible or need to be adjusted once it's opened, but the file will still open. What Apple did wasn't very good. A better bridge would have been some kind of layers to files method allowing things to be reassembled with a little work in later software, although I'm admittedly not that well versed with final cut. They didn't seem to provide much of a transition path as far as I can tell.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
It seems to me this is excellent for those that don't a consistent money flow. You don't have to invest $600 up front. You can do just $50 per month, or if you're a student just $30 per month. That's not even a night of drinking per month for a college student.
On top of that they they also have the one-month option for $75 (not sure if there is a education version of that). If you have one job you can easily fold that $75 into your fee but trying to fold $600 into your fee or hoping your get more work down the road before you need to update again is much more risky.
While that would be nice, it doesn't quite work that way. Most of their stated monthly rates are for a year paid in advance, even though they break it down to something referred to as monthly. It is also possible to just pay for a month, but the per month rate is higher. The long term costs are potentially higher if you use this for a number of years, but it can be worth it if you don't initially buy in as a student. For example the Master Collection is $2600. Right now CS6 is basically mid cycle. CS7 or whatever would then be an upgrade whenever it arrives. They list it at $50/month based on an annual subscription, so in that case your upfront cost is $600. If the package is updated within that time, you can use the latest version as there are no upgrades with this pricing model. Prior to this it was sometimes possible to wait out bad versions of single applications or creative suite in general, but this didn't mean you could always do so if you stuck with the latest version of OSX. Adobe doesn't tend to go back and validate a ton of older versions of OSX with the newest software, but that happens with a lot of others as well. Some of the student packages are cheaper, so for students it may be worth using the student discount, as those are still eligible for upgrade pricing, which might work out well if the upgrades are $300-400 rather than $600, especially if you initially buy early in a product cycle or late enough that they float you to the next version. Blah I hope I covered everything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid
Adobe: "How can we get people to pay us for software even if they don't upgrade? YES! Subscriptions!"
This is another of your misleading statements. The upgrade policies are still in place. In some areas they did become worse. For example you can only upgrade from the prior version rather than 3 versions back with single applications. With a given version of Creative Suite, upgrade pricing was staggered based on what version you already owned. In terms of subscriptions, you don't buy the initial package if you need more seats today. It's just the subscription rate. Some other companies do similar things. Autodesk and the Foundry use initial pricing + annual maintenance if you want support and the latest versions.
Thanks. I had assumed that a listing of x-amount per month for a year was to be paid monthly.
I signed up for creative cloud when it has the $30 promotion. $30 a month for a year is a bargain! It is true I do not use more than photoshop, indesign and illustrator on a daily basis and to have unlimited access to all other tools within the suite opens up other creative possibilities. I might rethink it when the price goes back up to $50/month, for now, I'm actually happy with this subscription service model.
I also used to argue that there is no difference in using CS3 vs CS6 but that is wrong. If you actually know the programs well and use it efficiently you will notice there is a BIG difference. As long as they keep the monthly price affordable, I can see Adobe gaining more subscriptions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm
While that would be nice, it doesn't quite work that way. Most of their stated monthly rates are for a year paid in advance, even though they break it down to something referred to as monthly.
Thanks. I had assumed that a listing of x-amount per month for a year was to be paid monthly.
He is wrong. It is not paid in advance. They charge your CC monthly, although I am not sure what happens if you default on the monthly payments while on the yearly contract.
Nope... the yearly contract is billed monthly.
When you sign up for the yearly contract... they draft the money out of your account every month... for 12 months.
Yes... it works out to $600 a year... but you do not have to fork over $600 upfront.
The other plan is month-to-month for $75 a month. You only pay for the month... no contract... cancel after that month if you want to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Thanks. I had assumed that a listing of x-amount per month for a year was to be paid monthly.
Okay I have been corrected, but I read the thing as soon as they announced Creative Cloud and the rest of it. I must have misread misread on the annual plan, but you can see the rate differences here. Being billed monthly does further lower the barrier to entry further. The master collection is $2500 in the US and higher in some countries. Some of the other packages are significantly cheaper, but I could definitely see the appeal in monthly billing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Too bad about Canvas. I never used it. Perhaps Corel Painter would be a reasonable replacement. It gets decent reviews as a better paint and drawing app verses Photoshop which more focused on photo composites where as Painter is more about artistic brushes and paint/paper effects.
I don't know what Paint is like now, I haven't used it in years, but I remember the Phoenix-rising massive epiphany day around 1999 or so when I walked across the building from my CorelDRAW and Paint machine to the new one running Photoshop and Illustrator. Both did the same thing, but the QUALITY of the results was SOOOOO much better with the Adobe products. I've never looked back.
14 years and 8 versions ago there was a massive difference in features and quality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flabber
It's still only cheaper if you, as a company, are used to upgrading with évery new version.
I don't have the numbers handy anymore, but I think it still works out okay even if you only update every second version. That's what I was doing, and somehow I came to the conclusion that the subscription fee versus the purchase price worked out to a comparison I could accept. That's for the Full Meal Deal though. If you're using, say, Design Standard and don't want or need every single app Adobe offers, it may not be as attractive.
In my particular circumstances the only way to get all the apps I want is to buy the whole schmear. With the subscription I now just budget a monthly amount and always have the latest version without having to worry about shelling out a big chunk of change whenever the next version comes out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
14 years and 8 versions ago there was a massive difference in features and quality.
Like I said, I don't know what the Corel product is like now since I no longer use it. Is Paint now comparable to Photoshop in terms of quality? My daughter is forced to use Draw! to drive signage and engraving equipment, and according to her, it's still as bad as it was way back then -- its inability to correctly interpret Postscript and files created with any other app is legendary, and the seemingly arbitrary rounding of numerical values seems to still exist -- but I don't know anyone who still uses Paint so I haven't heard anything about it.
Your daughter may be using an older Corel version. Our shop has had a different experience with it than she has.
If she's in the sign/engraving business then she's primarily using the vector rather than raster features of Corel in all likelihood. The import options are more extensive than the comparable Illustrator offers, not less and we've had no greater issues with importing common files with CorelDraw than doing so with Illustrator.
Regarding CorelPainter, it offers some features that Photoshop does not and vice-versa. Most commercial users will nearly always prefer Photoshop given those two as choices IMO. I know I do. Artists tho might find CorelPainter a better match.
I think they should have 3 or 4 levels: $5-10/m for an Elements bundle, which can be sold along with computers, stick with $30/m for individual users for the full suite or $10/m per app and they can have $50/m+ for business use (any form of company other than sole traders as they can claim taxes back on it).
It's also the interoperability. If one company upgrades and you have to deal with their files and you have an older version, they'd have to send downgraded files. That heavily goes against the pay upfront model because you might own After Effects 5 and think it's a great deal to use it for 5 years but you just have to need to open an AE 6 file and you're screwed because you have no choice but to immediately pay for an upgrade or full license when you aren't expecting it. A subscription is much more predictable because you know exactly what you pay and when and you can always be up to date.
The argument about Adobe going out of business is entirely valid but where there's a need, someone will fill it. Apple did this with Final Cut. You can't open any project from the old software. With their standalone model, you could still open things but you could similarly import the files into other programs. It's a concern but I wouldn't say it's a big one when Adobe's concerned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v
Like I said, I don't know what the Corel product is like now since I no longer use it. Is Paint now comparable to Photoshop in terms of quality? My daughter is forced to use Draw! to drive signage and engraving equipment, and according to her, it's still as bad as it was way back then -- its inability to correctly interpret Postscript and files created with any other app is legendary, and the seemingly arbitrary rounding of numerical values seems to still exist -- but I don't know anyone who still uses Paint so I haven't heard anything about it.
Painter has really nice brushes, although Adobe improved theirs quite a bit with CS6. I don't know if it can open EPS files though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
It's also the interoperability. If one company upgrades and you have to deal with their files and you have an older version, they'd have to send downgraded files. That heavily goes against the pay upfront model because you might own After Effects 5 and think it's a great deal to use it for 5 years but you just have to need to open an AE 6 file and you're screwed because you have no choice but to immediately pay for an upgrade or full license when you aren't expecting it. A subscription is much more predictable because you know exactly what you pay and when and you can always be up to date.
The argument about Adobe going out of business is entirely valid but where there's a need, someone will fill it. Apple did this with Final Cut. You can't open any project from the old software. With their standalone model, you could still open things but you could similarly import the files into other programs. It's a concern but I wouldn't say it's a big one when Adobe's concerned.
They weren't always problematic version to version. I used to skip bad versions when it was possible. There is always an initial period of bug fixes. If most things work as they should beyond that point, I would typically upgrade. Sometimes I had to maintain a version or so back in case others had not upgraded and I needed to test if something would open as intended. With some things bits of files are incompatible or need to be adjusted once it's opened, but the file will still open. What Apple did wasn't very good. A better bridge would have been some kind of layers to files method allowing things to be reassembled with a little work in later software, although I'm admittedly not that well versed with final cut. They didn't seem to provide much of a transition path as far as I can tell.