With regards to content I'd say that Apple has a point. They take a cut and the providers set the price.
But the markup on their hardware is inexcusable.
Really? Are you sure? Have you ever even been to Australia? The cost of living there is considerably higher than the US. Apples 6-8% difference is the lowest you see from any company. By far.
People have twisted views of what is fair. The price of goods only take into account one aspect. Apple's prices are closely aligned to the cost of living differences between the u.s. and australia.
Or are you also blaming Apple for the high cost of food and housing in your country?
It is not really Gouging, it is just more expensive to do things in Australia. Some of it is government regulation, some of it is transportation difficulty, some is the high cost of fuel, none of it is gouging. It is bizzare your government would go after Apple. Apple's margins are likely lower in Australia than in the US.
Minimum wage in the US in 2013: Federal $7.25, by state average is still below $8.
When you make twice as much per hour, products cost twice as much as well.
Only if the goods you are buying were manufactured using Australian labour, which in this case they were not. We are talking about goods imported into Australia that were manufactured where labour costs are lower.
Ther are transported in Australlian trucks, with Australlian drivers using Australlian fuel. That is just the beginning. It is more expensive to live in Australlia. Deal.
Vote with their wallets?! How exactly can we do that? Not use a computer? Pathetic...
Uh… not buy from Apple. Cut out the FUD.
As for Apple, prices here are out of control, especially when it comes to iTunes.
So don't buy from Apple.
For example, a season of The Walking Dead costs 50 cents more per episode and $7 more person season. An album costs 90 cents more per song and $6 more for an album. Why? It's a digital file. Our dollar is better than the US. There's no reason for it.
International licensing. Oops, I found a reason.
It may not seem like much, but it adds up after many downloads. The amount of people I know who refuses to use iTunes due to the price difference is huge. They seem to avoid the issue.
Doesn't VAT also come into play here? Australian VAT is 10%. There is no Federal VAT tax in the United States (although there are State and local sales taxes which are generally from 7% to 9%, but if you're ordering online, you only pay them if "shipping" to a State where the company also has a physical location. That's considered "nexus". However many States consider you to have nexus if you have any affiliates in the State. That's how New York State forced Amazon to charge sales tax in New York even though Amazon has no physical facility there.
Furthermore, the fact that it's a "digital file" and therefore should be the same price is not relevant. Local distributors decide upon the price just the same as a music CD sold in Australia is usually manufactured locally and is distributed by a local label. Apple would "love" to acquire content from one source and then distribute it worldwide, but there are laws preventing that. Some of those laws are in flux, but generally, most countries have traditionally made "parallel imports" illegal in order to protect local publishers and distributors.
It is not really Gouging, it is just more expensive to do things in Australia. Some of it is government regulation, some of it is transportation difficulty, some is the high cost of fuel, none of it is gouging. It is bizzare your government would go after Apple. Apple's margins are likely lower in Australia than in the US.
The topic under discussion is digitally delivered goods - try again.
People have twisted views of what is fair. The price of goods only take into account one aspect. Apple's prices are closely aligned to the cost of living differences between the u.s. and australia.
Or are you also blaming Apple for the high cost of food and housing in your country?
Native Americans were wiped out by Smallpox when Apple shipped an container of computers that had an infected stowaway.
And Apple caused the eruption at Pompeii when their secret underground skunkworks blew up.
And Apple caused the ice ages by...., well, I just don't know how they did it, but they did.
Unless you follow the "Big Mac" index, where McDonalds uses Australian child labour to cut costs.*
*Child labour - 14 years and 9 months to 17 year olds, which is acceptable in Australia but causes an outcry when said children are in China.
Of course. It's OK to give underpaid jobs to Australian kids from middle class families, but don't dare give jobs to kids of legal age in China who are happy with the amount of money they receive.
You obviously don't have much experience with international currency conversion. When you purchase or sell a foreign currency, you do so at the actual real world applicable exchange rate at the time - not using some 'theoretical' notion of value.
You go into a shop and they are selling iPhones at $1,053.98. Just for fun, that happens to be Apple's price for one sim free in the UK. You tell the store owner you have read an opinion that states they are seriously over priced and that he should therefore sell it to you for $600. Care to guess what the store owner will likely tell you what you can do with your 'theoretical' value price?
Go to a currency dealer and tell them you want to buy Australian dollars at US$ 0.70 and she/he will likely laugh at you and say 'so would I'.
I think that you need to explore the actual meaning of these two words a bit deeper.
I might be tempted to if you actually replied with anything of substance.
On the other hand I probably wouldn't because ... "you just don't understand." (see how easy it is to do that?)
How difficult is it to search for these two terms, and read the descriptions/definitions from sites that you might trust?! Are you really that dependent on some link that some guy you don't know provides you on the internet?
You obviously don't have much experience with international currency conversion. When you purchase or sell a foreign currency, you do so at the actual real world applicable exchange rate at the time - not using some 'theoretical' notion of value.
Oh, please, just don't pretend you are such a hot currency dealer. As a matter of fact, it looks like you don't even comprehend simple terms so just stop right there. Unbelievable! End of discussion.
And they wonder why people pirate music, movies, software, etc.
Hypothetically, if an Apple user doesn't want to subscribe to Spotify, Rdio, etc, all one has to do is subscribe to iTunes Match and torrent their music, ~$35/year is nothing when someone is pirating $100 worth of music.
And for movies, people can download 1080p quality for free, and half the bandwidth.
Obviously I don't need to explain the software, people have been pirating Adobe's Creative Suite for years. Personally I use Pixelmator, why would I pay ~$1000 for Photoshop when I can get something that does almost the same stuff for ~$16?
I'd like to see an explanation as to why Apple overcharge for stuff on the app store, I mean $14 in the US and $16 here. That's completely Apple there.
And they wonder why people pirate music, movies, software, etc.
Having what to do with this? Piracy happens in the US, too.
And for movies, people can download 1080p quality for free, and half the bandwidth.
Apple 1080p movies are ~4GB. That seems to be the common size for pirated copies, though 1GB, 8GB, and 25GB are also common.
Of course people can steal for free. That people will pay for convenience and quality shows why iTunes is so successful.
Personally I use Pixelmator, why would I pay ~$1000 for Photoshop when I can get something that does almost the same stuff for ~$16?
Because this. Also for reasons of compatibility-based monopoly. In some cases, "it's purchased because that's what everyone else purchased" applies to everyone. Same with Windows, but that's coming crashing down.
I'd like to see an explanation as to why Apple overcharge for stuff on the app store…
Because they don't. There isn't "One World Store". The cost of operating in different countries is, surprise, different. Therefore different prices are warranted.
That seems like an incomplete view of capitalism. I would argue that Apples own reports on the labor practices of its suppliers, its efforts to reduce toxic chemicals during the manufacture of their products and their use of renewable energy sources for their server farms and corporate facilities indicates that they view fairness as a valuable commodity. Edit: this post was supposed to quote Gazoobe. Not sure why it didn't. Although I notice this is post number 666 for me so I guess it must be the devil.
That seems like an incomplete view of capitalism. I would argue that Apples own reports… …indicates that they view fairness as a valuable commodity.
Replying to me? Then why have they never had equal international prices at any stage in their existence? I don't really see how 'fairness' in that regard and on the back end has anything to do with taking a bath on increased international costs for the purpose of offering "USD-equivalent" prices worldwide.
Seems like the comments missed the point. Apple is being dissed for pricing on something they don't set the prices for. They should be going after the Studios etc to drop geographic restrictions and pricing and just release everything same day/date world wide and same price. Then the only issue is adjusting for currency value which Apple would likely then control cause they could out that control in the contracts. Do it say every three months for the moment with a deadline set for having a system up that can do it no less than once a week if not daily.
It seems like that rather fundamental point should really be the end of the discussion, but for some reason it barely even gets a look in.
Oops, I wasn't referring to you. I was speaking strictly about the concept of fairness as being of value in capitalism. Although I have little knowledge of the specifics of this issue in Australia I'm not at all convinced that Apple is guilty of price gouging. I really would appreciate it if you wouldn't edit my posts when you reply. Quoting part of what I wrote can change the context and doesn't seem very (wait for it)... Fair. 8-)
Edit: and again I'm not smart enough to get a quote in my response.
Oh, please, just don't pretend you are such a hot currency dealer. As a matter of fact, it looks like you don't even comprehend simple terms so just stop right there. Unbelievable! End of discussion.
You sound like you have suddenly realised your error and are trying to pretend you were right all along. Unlike you, I do actually have a bit of real world experience in converting between currencies and transferring funds internationally. I am not a currency dealer and have not said anything to imply I am. I do, however, make use of the services of a currency dealer from time to time.
Comments
Really? Are you sure? Have you ever even been to Australia? The cost of living there is considerably higher than the US. Apples 6-8% difference is the lowest you see from any company. By far.
It is not really Gouging, it is just more expensive to do things in Australia. Some of it is government regulation, some of it is transportation difficulty, some is the high cost of fuel, none of it is gouging. It is bizzare your government would go after Apple. Apple's margins are likely lower in Australia than in the US.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
It all comes down to two words.
Monopoly & Capitalism.
I think that you need to explore the actual meaning of these two words a bit deeper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek
But the markup on their hardware is inexcusable.
1) Is anyone holding a gun to anyone's head asking them to buy Apple?
2) What is the typical markup for other manufacturers' hardware? Is Apple's the same? Lower? Higher? Evidence?
Ther are transported in Australlian trucks, with Australlian drivers using Australlian fuel. That is just the beginning. It is more expensive to live in Australlia. Deal.
Originally Posted by Bemmer
Vote with their wallets?! How exactly can we do that? Not use a computer? Pathetic...
Uh… not buy from Apple. Cut out the FUD.
As for Apple, prices here are out of control, especially when it comes to iTunes.
So don't buy from Apple.
For example, a season of The Walking Dead costs 50 cents more per episode and $7 more person season. An album costs 90 cents more per song and $6 more for an album. Why? It's a digital file. Our dollar is better than the US. There's no reason for it.
International licensing. Oops, I found a reason.
It may not seem like much, but it adds up after many downloads. The amount of people I know who refuses to use iTunes due to the price difference is huge. They seem to avoid the issue.
No, that's called voting with your wallet.
Doesn't VAT also come into play here? Australian VAT is 10%. There is no Federal VAT tax in the United States (although there are State and local sales taxes which are generally from 7% to 9%, but if you're ordering online, you only pay them if "shipping" to a State where the company also has a physical location. That's considered "nexus". However many States consider you to have nexus if you have any affiliates in the State. That's how New York State forced Amazon to charge sales tax in New York even though Amazon has no physical facility there.
Furthermore, the fact that it's a "digital file" and therefore should be the same price is not relevant. Local distributors decide upon the price just the same as a music CD sold in Australia is usually manufactured locally and is distributed by a local label. Apple would "love" to acquire content from one source and then distribute it worldwide, but there are laws preventing that. Some of those laws are in flux, but generally, most countries have traditionally made "parallel imports" illegal in order to protect local publishers and distributors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wovel
It is not really Gouging, it is just more expensive to do things in Australia. Some of it is government regulation, some of it is transportation difficulty, some is the high cost of fuel, none of it is gouging. It is bizzare your government would go after Apple. Apple's margins are likely lower in Australia than in the US.
The topic under discussion is digitally delivered goods - try again.
And Apple caused the eruption at Pompeii when their secret underground skunkworks blew up.
And Apple caused the ice ages by...., well, I just don't know how they did it, but they did.
Of course. It's OK to give underpaid jobs to Australian kids from middle class families, but don't dare give jobs to kids of legal age in China who are happy with the amount of money they receive.
See above for the explanation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plagen
What part of 'overvalued " don't you understand?
See here: "The Australian dollar is the most overvalued currency in the world, but there is little will to intervene, according to a global valuation"
http://www.smh.com.au/business/markets/dollar-the-most-overvalued-currency-20130215-2eho2.html
You obviously don't have much experience with international currency conversion. When you purchase or sell a foreign currency, you do so at the actual real world applicable exchange rate at the time - not using some 'theoretical' notion of value.
You go into a shop and they are selling iPhones at $1,053.98. Just for fun, that happens to be Apple's price for one sim free in the UK. You tell the store owner you have read an opinion that states they are seriously over priced and that he should therefore sell it to you for $600. Care to guess what the store owner will likely tell you what you can do with your 'theoretical' value price?
Go to a currency dealer and tell them you want to buy Australian dollars at US$ 0.70 and she/he will likely laugh at you and say 'so would I'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
I think that you need to explore the actual meaning of these two words a bit deeper.
I might be tempted to if you actually replied with anything of substance.
On the other hand I probably wouldn't because ... "you just don't understand." (see how easy it is to do that?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
I think that you need to explore the actual meaning of these two words a bit deeper.
I might be tempted to if you actually replied with anything of substance.
On the other hand I probably wouldn't because ... "you just don't understand." (see how easy it is to do that?)
How difficult is it to search for these two terms, and read the descriptions/definitions from sites that you might trust?! Are you really that dependent on some link that some guy you don't know provides you on the internet?
Since you asked:
Monopoly: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/monopoly
Capitalism: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/capitalism
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui
You obviously don't have much experience with international currency conversion. When you purchase or sell a foreign currency, you do so at the actual real world applicable exchange rate at the time - not using some 'theoretical' notion of value.
Oh, please, just don't pretend you are such a hot currency dealer. As a matter of fact, it looks like you don't even comprehend simple terms so just stop right there. Unbelievable! End of discussion.
Hypothetically, if an Apple user doesn't want to subscribe to Spotify, Rdio, etc, all one has to do is subscribe to iTunes Match and torrent their music, ~$35/year is nothing when someone is pirating $100 worth of music.
And for movies, people can download 1080p quality for free, and half the bandwidth.
Obviously I don't need to explain the software, people have been pirating Adobe's Creative Suite for years. Personally I use Pixelmator, why would I pay ~$1000 for Photoshop when I can get something that does almost the same stuff for ~$16?
I'd like to see an explanation as to why Apple overcharge for stuff on the app store, I mean $14 in the US and $16 here. That's completely Apple there.
Originally Posted by ViciousKoala
And they wonder why people pirate music, movies, software, etc.
Having what to do with this? Piracy happens in the US, too.
And for movies, people can download 1080p quality for free, and half the bandwidth.
Apple 1080p movies are ~4GB. That seems to be the common size for pirated copies, though 1GB, 8GB, and 25GB are also common.
Of course people can steal for free. That people will pay for convenience and quality shows why iTunes is so successful.
Personally I use Pixelmator, why would I pay ~$1000 for Photoshop when I can get something that does almost the same stuff for ~$16?
Because this. Also for reasons of compatibility-based monopoly. In some cases, "it's purchased because that's what everyone else purchased" applies to everyone. Same with Windows, but that's coming crashing down.
I'd like to see an explanation as to why Apple overcharge for stuff on the app store…
Because they don't. There isn't "One World Store". The cost of operating in different countries is, surprise, different. Therefore different prices are warranted.
Edit: this post was supposed to quote Gazoobe. Not sure why it didn't. Although I notice this is post number 666 for me so I guess it must be the devil.
Originally Posted by Doctor David
That seems like an incomplete view of capitalism. I would argue that Apples own reports… …indicates that they view fairness as a valuable commodity.
Replying to me? Then why have they never had equal international prices at any stage in their existence? I don't really see how 'fairness' in that regard and on the back end has anything to do with taking a bath on increased international costs for the purpose of offering "USD-equivalent" prices worldwide.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
Seems like the comments missed the point. Apple is being dissed for pricing on something they don't set the prices for. They should be going after the Studios etc to drop geographic restrictions and pricing and just release everything same day/date world wide and same price. Then the only issue is adjusting for currency value which Apple would likely then control cause they could out that control in the contracts. Do it say every three months for the moment with a deadline set for having a system up that can do it no less than once a week if not daily.
It seems like that rather fundamental point should really be the end of the discussion, but for some reason it barely even gets a look in.
I really would appreciate it if you wouldn't edit my posts when you reply. Quoting part of what I wrote can change the context and doesn't seem very (wait for it)... Fair. 8-)
Edit: and again I'm not smart enough to get a quote in my response.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plagen
Oh, please, just don't pretend you are such a hot currency dealer. As a matter of fact, it looks like you don't even comprehend simple terms so just stop right there. Unbelievable! End of discussion.
You sound like you have suddenly realised your error and are trying to pretend you were right all along. Unlike you, I do actually have a bit of real world experience in converting between currencies and transferring funds internationally. I am not a currency dealer and have not said anything to imply I am. I do, however, make use of the services of a currency dealer from time to time.