In reality it puts US companies at a disadvantage when trying to do business in Asia.
That used to be the case, but not anymore (at least, in the legal sense). The equivalent of the US Foreign Corrupt Practices Act is now law in the OECD countries as of 1999, as well as in many other countries around the world thanks to the UN's adoption of a similar code in 2005 (and signed by 140 countries): http://www.transparency.org/whoweare/history
The days of the fondo nero (and tax deductibility for foreign bribe payments in countries like Germany) are long gone.
That said, people still seem to find ways around it....
Maybe this is another case like the ProView iPhone trademark case - like Apple signed a contract with the guy from Shanghai Animation, but someone decided it wasn't the RIGHT guy from Shanghai Animation.
From what I've been reading on REAL news sites this all looks like retaliation for the U.S. government banning the purchase of products from two Chinese manufacturers, namely Huawei and ZTE.
Another theory is that the campaign is retribution for America’s treatment of Chinese flagship telecoms companies. Last year, the US House of Representatives Intelligence Committee issued a report urging US telecom companies to avoid doing business with Huawei and ZTE because it said that the two firms were subject to Chinese government influence and thus a potential threat to US security.
The report effectively froze Huawei’s and ZTE’s business in the US.
The payback theory “sounds more plausible” than other explanations, suggests Mark Natkin, director of Marbridge Consulting, a telecoms and IT consultancy in Beijing.
“Just enough time has elapsed” since the House report “that they can avoid it looking like tit for tat,” Mr. Natkin says. “But they can make it plain that if you want to make things difficult for our companies, we can do the same for yours.”
Apple is allowing third party companies infringe on the rights of other Chinese companies, therefore Apple is responsible for this fault.
This is no surprise as Apple has pirated the LG touch phone, Samsung smart watch, smaller 7 inch tablet, and smart TV. Soon Apple will release a bigger 5 inch phone, one year later than the competition, again a copycat of the other companies 5 inch phone.
From what I've been reading on REAL news sites this all looks like retaliation for the U.S. government banning the purchase of products from two Chinese manufacturers, namely Huawei and ZTE.
What we are seeing in this instance has been their MO.
In the 1990s, they let IP violators of Microsoft's products run around and strut their stuff openly (you can buy the latest MSFT operating system -- probably updated with all the most current service packs, since the average user does not bother to update them -- for $10 in any Shanghai street corner even now); in the 2000s they went after Google, who is now essentially out of China (except for HK); now, in the 2010s they are going after Apple. This has only just started for Apple in China.
Unless US (and EU) foreign policy grows a pair, and starts to include threats such as those from industrial espionage, IP theft, and cyber-attacks as the equivalent of serious national security threats, nothing much will happen. If necessary -- and regardless of the caterwauling that one will hear from the business community and from the consumer -- the US and the EU have to be prepared to impose some stiff, coordinated penalties on Chinese imports. But it won't happen.
My suggestion to Apple is realpolitik: bite your tongue, pay the fine, bow, apologize, promise to do better in the future (whatever the heck that means), and move on.
Some of these comments are laughably ignorant. If Apple had a choice of being in the China market or the US market, it would be in China, with it's significantly higher numbers of eager consumers. China is never going to "grow up and play fair" or become dutiful little Americans. They're the new norm. Businesses and countries all over the world are doing what it takes to get into the Chinese market and they will do as the Chinese say. Africa, for example is getting enormous investment and free infrastructure development from China. They don't want or need the US. In a way China is simply out competing the US for business and image. The reality is that most world business is all about relationships and that mean you rub my back, and I'll rub yours. There are no business leaving China any time soon, as the rewards are just too great. The US can't even govern itself and balance a budget nor can it stop itself going to war regularly, not much of an example.
Actually I find it all rather amusing. Since the basic concept of the IP Litigation industry is an american invention, an american export to the world, it is in a way very satisfying to see the US getting bitten. There is no way the US can compete, so get used to losing.
Apple is allowing third party companies infringe on the rights of other Chinese companies, therefore Apple is responsible for this fault.
This is no surprise as Apple has pirated the LG touch phone, Samsung smart watch, smaller 7 inch tablet, and smart TV. Soon Apple will release a bigger 5 inch phone, one year later than the competition, again a copycat of the other companies 5 inch phone.
Jeeezzzzus, give it rest. Repeating FUD lies doesn't make them true. It makes the poster look stupid, however.
The Chinese government is definitely behind this coordinated assault on Apple.
What they want, I believe, is access to Apple's IP - especially Siri. This lawsuit - and the attending negative publicity campaign - gives them legal cover to demand access to Apple's intellectual property. That is what this is about imho.
If you have any doubts, review the American Chamber of Commerce report - released in the past week - that states that "fully 26% of American companies doing business in China say their proprietary data or trade secrets have been compromised or stolen from their China operations."
When you read the report, it makes it all the more ludicrous that a Chinese company would purport to have had its own patents infringed on by an American company - let alone a proud company like Apple.
So, the long game for the government against Apple is theft. It's not personal. It's Chinese government business as usual. Sad.
This is likely the same play China Mobile was making against Apple that kept Apple from entering China's mobile market for years. It's likely why Apple went with the smaller Chinese carrier, China Unicom, as China Mobile's business affairs are tightly intertwined with the Chinese government (read up on it.) China Mobile/ the Chinese government was probably demanding access to their IP in exchange for their huge number of subscribers (700 million and growing).
Unfortunately, it is illegal for a US company to pay bribes, even if it is traditional to do so in the country in question.
It's one of those "sounds good in principle" laws that would be great if it existed and was enforced by all countries. In reality it puts US companies at a disadvantage when trying to do business in Asia.
It's Illegal for banks to launder drug money -- well, actually, it's only illegal if they get caught. I'm pretty sure there's a lot of companies that have had to fudge the rules -- like how many silicon valley companies colluded for a "no poaching" rule (including Apple) that depressed wages.
Outside of banks and military contractors; yes, it's dangerous to be corrupt all the time -- but you can pick and choose a few small corruptions and that's a reality of business.
The Chinese government is definitely behind this coordinated assault on Apple.
What they want, I believe, is access to Apple's IP - especially Siri. This lawsuit - and the attending negative publicity campaign - gives them legal cover to demand access to Apple's intellectual property. That is what this is about imho.
If you have any doubts, review the American Chamber of Commerce report - released in the past week - that states that "fully 26% of American companies doing business in China say their proprietary data or trade secrets have been compromised or stolen from their China operations."
When you read the report, it makes it all the more ludicrous that a Chinese company would purport to have had its own patents infringed on by an American company - let alone a proud company like Apple.
So, the long game for the government against Apple is theft. It's not personal. It's Chinese government business as usual. Sad.
This is likely the same play China Mobile was making against Apple that kept Apple from entering China's mobile market for years. It's likely why Apple went with the smaller Chinese carrier, China Unicom, as China Mobile's business affairs are tightly intertwined with the Chinese government (read up on it.) China Mobile/ the Chinese government was probably demanding access to their IP in exchange for their huge number of subscribers (700 million and growing).
That's my hunch... don't give in, Apple.
Really good analysis. Yes; forcing Apple to defend themselves in "Discovery" means they'd have to give them access to technical details about Siri. For a mere $500,000, they get advanced tech they can then clone. Then they can drop the meritless case and say; "Sorry we bothered you."
It certainly puts a new wrinkle on it and it suddenly makes the court system a useful tool in international espionage; as corporate and technology espionage seems to be the principle function of agencies like our CIA these days. They aren't spying so much to defend America, as they are to help some company get an edge.
So Apple's choice here is three awful ones;
1) Settle and throw blood in the water for every colored label cloner that wants to sue for tech they borrowed.
2) Go to court and hand over tech they've spent years and billions developing.
3) Go to court, and hand over convincing tech that is riddled with hard to find errors -- praying that they don't get nailed for obstructing justice.
Maybe this is another case like the ProView iPhone trademark case - like Apple signed a contract with the guy from Shanghai Animation, but someone decided it wasn't the RIGHT guy from Shanghai Animation.
Reminds me of all the old stories of "bought Manhattan island from the indians for a string of beads." It was always told as if the Indians didn't know the value of what they sold, and the White Man took advantage of savages. It's more likely that they walked up to an Indian, who didn't have the authority and was amused that anyone could own or sell land, so he took advantage of the european fool giving away jewelry for something intangible.
But it's certainly quite a ballsy gambit; take a licensing fee and then pretend that they gave it to the wrong guy. A contract with the company needs a photo ID and a picture of a handshake with the board -- if they didn't hire stand in actors, you're safe.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by liuping
In reality it puts US companies at a disadvantage when trying to do business in Asia.
That used to be the case, but not anymore (at least, in the legal sense). The equivalent of the US Foreign Corrupt Practices Act is now law in the OECD countries as of 1999, as well as in many other countries around the world thanks to the UN's adoption of a similar code in 2005 (and signed by 140 countries): http://www.transparency.org/whoweare/history
The days of the fondo nero (and tax deductibility for foreign bribe payments in countries like Germany) are long gone.
That said, people still seem to find ways around it....
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight
Well, sounds like China really wants something from Apple. Time to head out of the country?
Apart from that, Sun Wu Kong's awesome.
Yep. What they want is what they have wanted for the last couple of years; iPhone on China Mobile at $0 per unit.
From what I've been reading on REAL news sites this all looks like retaliation for the U.S. government banning the purchase of products from two Chinese manufacturers, namely Huawei and ZTE.
from news.yahoo.com
http://news.yahoo.com/china-takes-aim-apple-why-132004680.html
Another theory is that the campaign is retribution for America’s treatment of Chinese flagship telecoms companies. Last year, the US House of Representatives Intelligence Committee issued a report urging US telecom companies to avoid doing business with Huawei and ZTE because it said that the two firms were subject to Chinese government influence and thus a potential threat to US security.
The report effectively froze Huawei’s and ZTE’s business in the US.
The payback theory “sounds more plausible” than other explanations, suggests Mark Natkin, director of Marbridge Consulting, a telecoms and IT consultancy in Beijing.
“Just enough time has elapsed” since the House report “that they can avoid it looking like tit for tat,” Mr. Natkin says. “But they can make it plain that if you want to make things difficult for our companies, we can do the same for yours.”
This is no surprise as Apple has pirated the LG touch phone, Samsung smart watch, smaller 7 inch tablet, and smart TV. Soon Apple will release a bigger 5 inch phone, one year later than the competition, again a copycat of the other companies 5 inch phone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp
From what I've been reading on REAL news sites this all looks like retaliation for the U.S. government banning the purchase of products from two Chinese manufacturers, namely Huawei and ZTE.
from news.yahoo.com
http://news.yahoo.com/china-takes-aim-apple-why-132004680.html
Could be, but that sounds too conspiratorial.
What we are seeing in this instance has been their MO.
In the 1990s, they let IP violators of Microsoft's products run around and strut their stuff openly (you can buy the latest MSFT operating system -- probably updated with all the most current service packs, since the average user does not bother to update them -- for $10 in any Shanghai street corner even now); in the 2000s they went after Google, who is now essentially out of China (except for HK); now, in the 2010s they are going after Apple. This has only just started for Apple in China.
Unless US (and EU) foreign policy grows a pair, and starts to include threats such as those from industrial espionage, IP theft, and cyber-attacks as the equivalent of serious national security threats, nothing much will happen. If necessary -- and regardless of the caterwauling that one will hear from the business community and from the consumer -- the US and the EU have to be prepared to impose some stiff, coordinated penalties on Chinese imports. But it won't happen.
My suggestion to Apple is realpolitik: bite your tongue, pay the fine, bow, apologize, promise to do better in the future (whatever the heck that means), and move on.
Step 1. Make app with all your movies accessible in it.
Step 2. Sue Apple for allowing the app in their App Store.
Step 3. "Profit."
The reality is that most world business is all about relationships and that mean you rub my back, and I'll rub yours. There are no business leaving China any time soon, as the rewards are just too great. The US can't even govern itself and balance a budget nor can it stop itself going to war regularly, not much of an example.
Actually I find it all rather amusing. Since the basic concept of the IP Litigation industry is an american invention, an american export to the world, it is in a way very satisfying to see the US getting bitten. There is no way the US can compete, so get used to losing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter236
Apple is allowing third party companies infringe on the rights of other Chinese companies, therefore Apple is responsible for this fault.
This is no surprise as Apple has pirated the LG touch phone, Samsung smart watch, smaller 7 inch tablet, and smart TV. Soon Apple will release a bigger 5 inch phone, one year later than the competition, again a copycat of the other companies 5 inch phone.
Jeeezzzzus, give it rest. Repeating FUD lies doesn't make them true. It makes the poster look stupid, however.
Death By A Thousand Cuts...
Post at 8.20
Originally Posted by airmanchairman
If recent reports of a new State policy towards foreign firms are true, then this will not be the last.
But these are domestic films…
What they want, I believe, is access to Apple's IP - especially Siri. This lawsuit - and the attending negative publicity campaign - gives them legal cover to demand access to Apple's intellectual property. That is what this is about imho.
If you have any doubts, review the American Chamber of Commerce report - released in the past week - that states that "fully 26% of American companies doing business in China say their proprietary data or trade secrets have been compromised or stolen from their China operations."
When you read the report, it makes it all the more ludicrous that a Chinese company would purport to have had its own patents infringed on by an American company - let alone a proud company like Apple.
So, the long game for the government against Apple is theft. It's not personal. It's Chinese government business as usual. Sad.
This is likely the same play China Mobile was making against Apple that kept Apple from entering China's mobile market for years. It's likely why Apple went with the smaller Chinese carrier, China Unicom, as China Mobile's business affairs are tightly intertwined with the Chinese government (read up on it.) China Mobile/ the Chinese government was probably demanding access to their IP in exchange for their huge number of subscribers (700 million and growing).
That's my hunch... don't give in, Apple.
Unfortunately, it is illegal for a US company to pay bribes, even if it is traditional to do so in the country in question.
It's one of those "sounds good in principle" laws that would be great if it existed and was enforced by all countries. In reality it puts US companies at a disadvantage when trying to do business in Asia.
It's Illegal for banks to launder drug money -- well, actually, it's only illegal if they get caught. I'm pretty sure there's a lot of companies that have had to fudge the rules -- like how many silicon valley companies colluded for a "no poaching" rule (including Apple) that depressed wages.
Outside of banks and military contractors; yes, it's dangerous to be corrupt all the time -- but you can pick and choose a few small corruptions and that's a reality of business.The Chinese government is definitely behind this coordinated assault on Apple.
What they want, I believe, is access to Apple's IP - especially Siri. This lawsuit - and the attending negative publicity campaign - gives them legal cover to demand access to Apple's intellectual property. That is what this is about imho.
If you have any doubts, review the American Chamber of Commerce report - released in the past week - that states that "fully 26% of American companies doing business in China say their proprietary data or trade secrets have been compromised or stolen from their China operations."
When you read the report, it makes it all the more ludicrous that a Chinese company would purport to have had its own patents infringed on by an American company - let alone a proud company like Apple.
So, the long game for the government against Apple is theft. It's not personal. It's Chinese government business as usual. Sad.
This is likely the same play China Mobile was making against Apple that kept Apple from entering China's mobile market for years. It's likely why Apple went with the smaller Chinese carrier, China Unicom, as China Mobile's business affairs are tightly intertwined with the Chinese government (read up on it.) China Mobile/ the Chinese government was probably demanding access to their IP in exchange for their huge number of subscribers (700 million and growing).
That's my hunch... don't give in, Apple.
Really good analysis. Yes; forcing Apple to defend themselves in "Discovery" means they'd have to give them access to technical details about Siri. For a mere $500,000, they get advanced tech they can then clone. Then they can drop the meritless case and say; "Sorry we bothered you."
It certainly puts a new wrinkle on it and it suddenly makes the court system a useful tool in international espionage; as corporate and technology espionage seems to be the principle function of agencies like our CIA these days. They aren't spying so much to defend America, as they are to help some company get an edge.
So Apple's choice here is three awful ones;1) Settle and throw blood in the water for every colored label cloner that wants to sue for tech they borrowed.
2) Go to court and hand over tech they've spent years and billions developing.
3) Go to court, and hand over convincing tech that is riddled with hard to find errors -- praying that they don't get nailed for obstructing justice.
Maybe this is another case like the ProView iPhone trademark case - like Apple signed a contract with the guy from Shanghai Animation, but someone decided it wasn't the RIGHT guy from Shanghai Animation.
Reminds me of all the old stories of "bought Manhattan island from the indians for a string of beads." It was always told as if the Indians didn't know the value of what they sold, and the White Man took advantage of savages. It's more likely that they walked up to an Indian, who didn't have the authority and was amused that anyone could own or sell land, so he took advantage of the european fool giving away jewelry for something intangible.
But it's certainly quite a ballsy gambit; take a licensing fee and then pretend that they gave it to the wrong guy. A contract with the company needs a photo ID and a picture of a handshake with the board -- if they didn't hire stand in actors, you're safe.America continually accuses the 'Chinese Government' of all these anti-Apple crap. All countries are suing Apple for stuff...
Not every company/business in China is 'controlled' by the Chinese Government...
Originally Posted by werdnanotroh
Chinese Government? This is no different to the American Government accusing Huawei of spying on America...
Well, it sort of is, in that it's completely different.
America continually accuses the 'Chinese Government' of all these anti-Apple crap. All countries are suing Apple for stuff...
And yet this country is… China. Specifically, the Chinese government.
Not every company/business in China is 'controlled' by the Chinese Government...
And yet this one… is. End of complaint.