PC gross margins expected to decline as sales shrink, Dell goes private

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  • Reply 21 of 30
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,043member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Applelunatic View Post


    So the way to turn around your business that is struggling to be profitable is to make even less profit?  Since "making it up on volume" didn't work during the Dot Bomb Era, why would Michael Dell think it'll work now?  What's the point of having a larger share of a pie that has shrunk by more than you've gained?



    The problem these company had when they get so big is they have suck a large fix set of assets they are trying to cover, the only way is to ship more product so they can spread the costs over a larger numbers of shipped products. but some time you can not stop the death spiral.

  • Reply 22 of 30
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,926member
    Who cares about profits. Market share determines winners! /s
  • Reply 23 of 30
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Yes, but to actually be able to survive you have to be able to make money.  Which as I said in the other post means you have to be able to either subsidize these margin cuts with some other business that is making enough profit to cover or you need to be more efficient so lowering your costs doesn't lower your margins. I don't see Dell having either of those and thus it looks like this will do nothing but further accelerate their profit margins going to 0 and under.  Do they really have enough spare cash to burn through long enough?


    Revenue neutral or small profit is better than a loss. You live to see another year and hopefully things will turn around.

    It sounds to me a gambit to outlast the competition and hopefully things will be better when the dust settles.

    That's still a big gamble though. They need to own an emerging market, it's hard for a big player to survive a dying market.
  • Reply 24 of 30

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post


     


     


    So in effect, Wall Street is no good for businesses, nor consumers.  Interesting.



    Never has been, especially today. Mergers and acquisitions have one of two reasons. Make a quick buck for investors by saddling businesses with debt so investors reap substantial profit while raping the company and its employees -- this is what Icahn wants to do to Dell. Second is to create monopoly to prevent competitors coming into the market by keeping prices so low, competitors cannot enter the market. This how Amazon works for books, and why Apple's deal with publishers was very good for the business and productivity, and why Amazon's is bad, because under the Amazon model, new publishers cannot make the money to either start up or stay in existence. (And why DOJ's attack on Apple's deals are wrong in every possible way).


     


    This is also why consumers' demands for cheap, cheap, cheap is precisely why there are no jobs, jobs, jobs. 

  • Reply 25 of 30
    hmmhmm Posts: 3,405member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post





    Revenue neutral or small profit is better than a loss. You live to see another year and hopefully things will turn around.



    It sounds to me a gambit to outlast the competition and hopefully things will be better when the dust settles.



    That's still a big gamble though. They need to own an emerging market, it's hard for a big player to survive a dying market.




    Western Digital remains profitable in spite of the number of HDD vendors that have dropped out, so it can happen. I'm not sure it will work out the same way with PCs. Part of it is that some of these companies may be too big for the size of that market going forward.

  • Reply 26 of 30
    Dell has made some major strategic acquisitions in enterprise. Sonicwall, Wyse and appassure to name a few. It's a cloud strategy. They won't need to make money off of the endpoints, they're part of a total solution. That's the plan, anyways.

    http://www.pcworld.com/article/2019590/dells-acquisitions-not-yet-paying-dividends.html
  • Reply 27 of 30
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,326moderator
    gazoobee wrote:
    Wow, a series of declining quarters, finishing with the worst quarter in history ... and they say that "trouble might be ahead."

    These guys are geniuses!

    They say that about Apple too though after a series of record quarters.
    gazoobee wrote:
    I'm pretty sure that once the dust has cleared and the industry has consolidated, and there is only one or perhaps two PC makers left in the world, that neither of them will be Dell.

    Especially not when Intel makes their own low price computers now:

    http://www.amazon.com/Intel-Computing-Gigabit-i3-3217U-DC3217IYE/dp/B0093LINVK
    jeffdm wrote:
    I thought the Dell deal still had to be approved by shareholders. I didn't see that anywhere.

    It hasn't been approved yet so Dell isn't private:

    http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2013/04/09/southeastern-dell-doesnt-need-to-go-private-and-kick-us-out/
    http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2260524/dell-shareholder-moans-that-michael-dell-wants-to-buy-his-firm-on-the-cheap
    hmm wrote:
    Western Digital remains profitable in spite of the number of HDD vendors that have dropped out, so it can happen.

    That's a good example but I think we still have to see the full impact of SSD. People will always need computers in some form and the question is will they always put cheap ahead of quality (in the HDD example, do they put capacity ahead of performance and durability). It's clear that's not the case with the iPad as the iPad vastly outsells tablets that are much cheaper.

    Apple's in the best position because they own the high margin segments and they have a couple of buttons they can press to increase volume at the expense of profit. Dell already pressed their buttons and undoing it would be difficult.
  • Reply 28 of 30

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post



    I thought the Dell deal still had to be approved by shareholders. I didn't see that anywhere.


    Last I heard was that there were two 11th hour counter offers, one by a group headed by Carl Icon. Nothing has gotten to a shareholder vote.

  • Reply 29 of 30
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    hmm wrote: »

    Western Digital remains profitable in spite of the number of HDD vendors that have dropped out, so it can happen. I'm not sure it will work out the same way with PCs. Part of it is that some of these companies may be too big for the size of that market going forward.

    Did WD go private? Talks started after Dell's initial overtures. If they did, it's too soon to be conclusive.
  • Reply 30 of 30
    hmmhmm Posts: 3,405member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post





    Did WD go private? Talks started after Dell's initial overtures. If they did, it's too soon to be conclusive.


     


    I don't think so, at least not yet. I was going by recent quarters.

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