Can Apple afford to go cheaper with new iPhones?

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  • Reply 21 of 138
    shadashshadash Posts: 470member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


    Apple already makes a "cheap" iPhone by selling last year's (and the year before that) models.  This is their "cheaper iPhone" strategy.  


     


    IMO the only way it makes sense for Apple to come out with a cheaper iPhone is if the cheaper iPhone essentially replaces this "old model" sales strategy that fills the cheap phone spot already.  What I would envision is that they might simply put last years iPhone internals in a cheap plastic case.  With a slight downward revision of their margin, this kind of device could easily sell for just a couple of hundred bucks off contract and be free on contract.  


     


    That way there would only ever be two iPhones on sale at any given time:


     


    - this years model (expensive but worth it)


    - last years model in the cheap plastic case (practically free for the cheapskates) 



     


     


    I agree with the strategy but the word "cheapskates" irks me.  Poor people aren't cheap by choice, which is implied with the word you used.  


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by isaidso View Post



    " Tim Cook "already reversed a vow by late founder Steve Jobs that the company wouldn%u2019t introduce a scaled-back and cut-price version of the iPad."



    That's the stupidest comment I ever heard. By this guys logic Apple, then has done it with virtually every product they make.

    13" Macbook Pro

    11" Macbook Air

    21" low end iMac



    All "scaled-back" "cut-price" versions of their full versions.

    (again; if you are going by this logic)


     


    I doubt Jobs made a "vow" as phrased by the article.  But it did take some convincing for Jobs to accept the need for a different sized iPad at all.  I believe e-mails from Eddie Cue have surfaced that showed Jobs was "receptive" to that idea - eventually.  Jobs also strongly opposed the iPod on Windows and wasn't keen on the idea of the iPod Mini at first either.  Judging by the sales figures of all of those devices, he was right to change his mind.  

  • Reply 22 of 138
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,506member
    apple ][ wrote: »
    I'm still trying to figure out what the endgame is here, because that is not at all clear to me.

    I mean, what is Apple's purpose and why do they exist?

    I'll bite.

    Apple's stated purpose, from both Jobs and Cook, is just to make great products that enrich people's lives. That would include people in the so-called developing world who don't have as much cash as those in the richer countries, the "poor people" you often refer to. Their lives can be enriched as much as, or more than, the guy in his New York apartment presiding over thousands of dollars worth of Apple equipment.
  • Reply 23 of 138
    There should be 3 iPhones $359., $599. and a top of the line 5" 799.00 flagship
  • Reply 24 of 138
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,360member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post





    I'll bite.



    Apple's stated purpose, from both Jobs and Cook, is just to make great products that enrich people's lives. That would include people in the so-called developing world who don't have as much cash as those in the richer countries, the "poor people" you often refer to. Their lives can be enriched as much as, or more than, the guy in his New York apartment presiding over thousands of dollars worth of Apple equipment.


     


    I don't disagree with what you write, regarding the stated purpose from Jobs and Cook.


     


    However, I don't quite understand all of the interest in poor people all of a sudden, because Apple has certainly not cared about poor people or about providing for that particular market for most of their history. This newly found interest in poor people seems to be a change in strategy for Apple, if they do go ahead with a super cheap phone.


     


    If a cheap Apple iPhone can help Apple recover it's stock price, then I am all for it. I just hope that it doesn't turn into something that people can use to hurt Apple's stock even more.

  • Reply 25 of 138
    gtrgtr Posts: 3,231member
    I saw a problem with this article in the first two words:

    Conventional wisdom.

    [IMG]http://forums.appleinsider.com/content/type/61/id/23838/width/200/height/400[/IMG]
  • Reply 26 of 138
    gazoobeegazoobee Posts: 3,754member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post



    @ DED,



    What's with changing the title of these Saturday pieces from Editorial to Opinion? Did not enough people understand that editorial is an opinion piece?


     


    I find this distasteful also. It's kind of like how we used the word "Exit" to indicate … an  exit for hundreds of years, but now more often than not, public signs say "Out" now.  


     


    Everything has to be dumbed down for the new illiterate generation I suppose.  

  • Reply 27 of 138
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    gazoobee wrote: »
    I find this distasteful also. It's kind of like how we used the word "Exit" to indicate … an  exit for hundreds of years, but now more often than not, public signs say "Out" now.  

    Everything has to be dumbed down for the new illiterate generation I suppose.  

    Wood u mnd repeeting dat yousing smllr wurds?
  • Reply 28 of 138
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,360member


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


    Everything has to be dumbed down for the new illiterate generation I suppose.  



     


    That is one of the disadvantages of technology and new social trends I guess. Kids are dumber today, no doubt about that. And it seems as if many of the newer generation can barely write or spell correctly, even if their lives depended upon it.


     


    Fortunately, we'll all be dead by the time that this happens, but I can definitely see some sort of idiocracy type of society happening in the not too distant future. 

  • Reply 29 of 138
    gwmacgwmac Posts: 1,796member


    Imagine how disruptive an iPod Touch could be just by adding another model with 3G/LTE. There are now a lot of pre-paid plans that are text and data only, or only include very few voice minutes. Then imagine if you could buy your monthly data directly from the App store. If Apple wanted they could simply be an MVNO so no network to manage, simply rent it from the big 4 carriers and sell data on the app store. But I doubt that would make the big 4 too happy so unlikely.  Or they could simply let the other carriers compete and sell plans on the app store but Apple would still get their standard cut like any other app or service. You could even apply iTunes gift cards towards your bill. Virgin Mobile for example has a 2.5GB monthly data plan for 3G and LTE with unlimited texts and 300 voice minutes for $35. 


     


    You can have very high quality audio calls even with a decent 3G signal and every month more LTE is being added by all the networks. I think that really is where the smartphone market is headed as people use far more data and texts than voice. If Apple decided to go this route and worked out in advance some deals with carriers it could be a huge success. Imagine for example having a choice of  buying 2.5GB of data for $35, 5GB for $60 or 10GB for $110. MVNO carriers would no doubt be very creative and competitive about data packages for a chance to be one of only a few Apple blessed carriers allowed into the iTunes store. In one fell swop they could decimate cheapo Android sales by not only offering better phones but far simpler and cheaper plans. I realize that pre-paid carriers are already offering this now with the 4 and 4S but they are still a bit expensive and lack LTE. Once the iPhone 5S is out no doubt the 5 will be available and sold for $550 like the 4S is now. But an iPod touch type phone could be sold for far cheaper and be a hit not only in BRIC type countries but also in developed countries. 

  • Reply 30 of 138
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    apple ][ wrote: »
    That is one of the disadvantages of technology and new social trends I guess. Kids are dumber today, no doubt about that. And it seems as if many of the newer generation can barely write or spell correctly, even if their lives depended upon it.

    Fortunately, we'll all be dead by the time that this happens, but I can definitely see some sort of idiocracy type of society happening in the not too distant future.

    This is such bullshit! Not knowing what you know doesn't mean one is dumber. Each generation gets exposed to things you will never understand. The old meme of the child being able to do something with technology with ease that the parent or adult can't grasp is not a new concept nor one that will go away.

    Do you think you write well? Go back 200 years and see if English speaking people think you write well. They would probably say you're mostly literate, which is still uncommon, but you wouldn't be seen as a scholar with your style of writing and use of words. You're more illiterate to the way children communicate today than they are to the way you communicate. The primary difference is you think the way you write is somehow the right way.


    [VIDEO]



    • Elementary's Sherlock on texting, "Language is evolving, Watson, becoming a more efficient version of itself. I love text shorthand. It allows you to convey context and tone without losing velocity." : http://tvline.com/2012/10/24/elementary-season-1-spoilers-video/
  • Reply 31 of 138
    gtrgtr Posts: 3,231member
    solipsismx wrote: »
    Wood u mnd repeeting dat yousing smllr wurds?

    I fink he insalted us!

    Giv me a weak to confirm if he did or not, then I'll get bac 2 u.
  • Reply 32 of 138
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,360member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    This is such bullshit!


     


    Nope.


     


     


    NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) — It’s an education bombshell.


    Nearly 80 percent of New York City high school graduates need to relearn basic skills before they can enter the City University’s community college system.


    http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/03/07/officials-most-nyc-high-school-grads-need-remedial-help-before-entering-cuny-community-colleges/


     


  • Reply 33 of 138
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    apple ][ wrote: »
    Nope.

    NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) — It’s an education bombshell.

    Nearly 80 percent of New York City high school graduates need to relearn basic skills before they can enter the City University’s community college system.

    http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/03/07/officials-most-nyc-high-school-grads-need-remedial-help-before-entering-cuny-community-colleges/

    Again, not having one skill doesn't mean one does not have other skills you don't nor the capacity to learn at least as well as you. You have completely ignored any and all reasons why primary and secondary education may not be preparing a child for higher education and in no way have you proved they are dumb, but your lack of reading comprehension and inability to even consider the larger scale issues does bring into question your intelligence.
  • Reply 34 of 138

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ascii View Post


     


    So what entirely new (not the iPhone) product could they come up with to address the low cost phone market?



     


    Watch... this space, perhaps?  ;~/

  • Reply 35 of 138
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,360member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    Again, not having one skill doesn't mean one does not have other skills you don't nor the capacity to learn at least as well as you. You have completely ignored any and all reasons why primary and secondary education may not be preparing a child for higher education and in no way have you proved they are dumb, but your lack of reading comprehension and inability to even consider the larger scale issues does bring into question your intelligence.


     


    We are not going to agree, and neither of us will be alive in 100-200 years, so I guess that any further discussion about this topic will not be productive.

  • Reply 36 of 138
    mactelmactel Posts: 1,275member


    For Apple to make a cheaper iPhone it has to be spun differently.  There needs to be a Prosumer model iPhone with all the leading edge gadgetry (e.g. larger screen and more mega-pixels in the cameras) then the regular Consumer iPhone. Both of course not compromising on quality but each taking Apple in different directions and remaining true to their past and corporate culture.  Apple has done this with the MacBook lines for years so why not the iPhone too?

  • Reply 37 of 138
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,591member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


     


    I don't disagree with what you write, regarding the stated purpose from Jobs and Cook.


     


    However, I don't quite understand all of the interest in poor people all of a sudden, because Apple has certainly not cared about poor people or about providing for that particular market for most of their history. This newly found interest in poor people seems to be a change in strategy for Apple, if they do go ahead with a super cheap phone.


     


    If a cheap Apple iPhone can help Apple recover it's stock price, then I am all for it. I just hope that it doesn't turn into something that people can use to hurt Apple's stock even more.



    Its an interesting question that I think people (as so very often) tend to overlook in their eagerness to offer up 'solutions'. What is the endgame, or how does Apple stand to benefit? Apple never does anything for the short term, they always take the long view. So, my guess would be that a lower end iPhone will only come to pass if there is a clear strategic, long term benefit.


     


    Also, Apple will not target 'poor' people as such. There would not be much value unless these people are likely to become 'not poor' for lack of a better term. Apple is seen as a premium product that bring in high revenues, not just for Apple but also for all the 3rd party developers and accessory makers. That in itself is valuable.


     


    But I can see the value in have a two tier offering - iPhone and iPhone S, like MacBook and MacBook Pro. It is perhaps better to have a separate product than to simply flog a discontinued one, even if they are much the same. It is a matter of perception. My guess is that more people would buy an old phone repackaged as New, than would by an old model. 

  • Reply 38 of 138
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,506member
    sockrolid wrote: »
    That's the problem with discounting older iPhones.  Component costs come down over time, but probably not fast enough to offset the $100 price drop of the year-old iPhone model and the $200 price drop of the two-year-old model.  So Apple probably can't maintain new-iPhone margins with their older phones.  



    Yes.  In (probably) less than 20 years, Apple will need to replace their hardware revenue with something else.  Maybe technology licensing (Siri in cars and home automation, camera software, chip designs, etc.) but most likely digital content distribution and iCloud services.  As they say in Hollywood, "Content is king, but distribution is King Kong."

    I have a sneaking suspicion that Apple's "TV solution" is their key to success in this century.  Not just a television set.  An infrastructure combining elements of iTunes and iCloud, but with vastly more live and pre-recorded content than is now available.  Apple would make their money through rental, subscription, and sales of audio and video content.  And I think Apple might wait until 4K TV sets are commonplace.  That could be catalyst for change in the TV industry, and Apple could be planning to further disrupt the industry.  To re-make TV in their own image the way they remade the music industry.  So don't hold your breath for an "iTV" any time soon.

    I agree about this Apple Network thinking. The only thing I would add is that Apple may be developing wearable 4K screens as a way of doing an end run around the 4K TV set problem.
  • Reply 39 of 138
    For a real analysis of what Apple needs to do, please read my article at www.theunknownanalyst.com. It's been critiqued by Greenlight Capital, and they said I was one smart guy! Maybe you will agree.
  • Reply 40 of 138
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    For a real analysis of what Apple needs to do, please read my article at ???????????????. It's been critiqued by Greenlight Capital, and they said I was one smart guy! Maybe you will agree.

    If you want to participate in the conversation and have something to add to the thread then by all means do so but please don't post spam to other sites that aren't germane or don't carry the conversation. Your post will self destruct in 5… 4… 3… 2…
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