Who said there was anything wrong with an SSD? Fusion Drive is an SSD+HDD essentially in a special RAID 0 configuration. This allows for SSD speeds with HDD like storage at a fraction of the cost of an SSD setup of that capacity.
And what's this new argument that HDDs don't respond well to being dropped? What computer components do respond well to being drop? Are you saying that notebooks can't be successful if they have an HDD in them?
How can you be so sure when there is no room for the dGPU, fan, other cooling elements, or larger battery. It's not just not possible without reducing certain components, removing some components, or enlarging the size of the current device.
1. All I am saying is that I would never ever buy a notebook with a spinning drive. As for being dropped, I am sure no component loves being dropped, but I have dropped my SSD notebooks (primarily Apple, but also Sony and Lenovo) many times, with no ill effects. I wish I could say the same for HDD notebooks.
2. I know there are devices of the same size (Sony Vaio Z-series comes to mind) which are not bigger, and have a discrete graphics subsystem. While I am sure that it would be harder to put in a discrete GPU into the smaller box, I am quite certain that the primary reason is marketing. Please feel free to disagree.
Apple has never said such a thing. In fact they have been rather quiet with respect to the suspension of 17" production.
Which souldnt be a problem with the next round of GPUs.
I'm not sure what motivated Apple to suspend 17" production, but I could see it coming back. It isn't like they have said with out reservation the machine is dead forever.
It wouldn't be the first time that Apple delayed the 17" release over the smaller versions. It would be the first time they have gone this long between 17" update or without a 17" on the market. It's suspect they haven't told the 17" market that they are planning to update it once the iGPU is powerful enough to run a 3840x2400 display. That's higher than a 4K display. It seems close but 4K is 8.3 million pixels and this doubling for a 17' MBP would be nearly a million more pixels to push.
Perhaps it's to give them time to rewrite OS X to work better with non-doubling pixel density. Meaning, at some point they will update the resolution of their Apple Thnderbolt Displays and iMacs but I don't think they will go with 5120x3200; I think they'll go with a standard 4K when they make the move thereby making the PPI not go from 109 to 218, but only to 163, same as the original iPhone displays.
PS: Note that WQUXGA is a standard size that would match a 17" MBP going Retina. Can the Haswell iGPU handle 9.22 million pixels?
All I am saying is that I would never ever buy a notebook with a spinning drive. As for being dropped, I am sure no component loves being dropped, but I have dropped my SSD notebooks (primarily Apple, but also Sony and Lenovo) many times, with no ill effects. I wish I could say the same for HDD notebooks.
HDDs have moving parts and therefore are more prone to breaking but I've heard heard a scenario were you can drop your notebook and have nothing but the HDD break and would have been better offer if you had an SSD. If you apply enough force to something it will break. I've seen chassises, motherboard and displays break a lot more often than a HDD from being dropped.
I know there are devices of the same size (Sony Vaio Z-series comes to mind) which are not bigger, and have a discrete graphics subsystem. While I am sure that it would be harder to put in a discrete GPU into the smaller box, I am quite certain that the primary reason is marketing. Please feel free to disagree.
1) You're bringing up a defunct line of computers. It didn't occur to you that perhaps Sony has failed offer what customers wanted and yet you bring up a product that is no longer being made. How is that suppose to help your point in any way?
2) As previously mentioned, you can add a dGPU if you alter other aspects of the device. Apple's box volume for the Retina MBP, which doesn't use a CULV like the MBA, is only 12% more than the Sony Z Series and yet offers a lot more. Besides havng a non-Ultrabook TDP for the processor they have many more HW features, and, again, most importantly a much later battery. In fact it's well over twice the size of the battery in the Sony Series so unless Apple has invented TARDIS technology the battery in the 13" RMBPs takes up about 2x the internal space as in the Sony Z.
We heard rumors/predictions from numerous like Ming-Chi Kuo of KGI Securities about what to expect in upcoming Macbook refresh noted like inclusion of Hashwell processor, 802.11ac, etc but there is no discussion as due to the inherent benefits of the Hashwell%u2019s architectural advancements how overall weight of macbook pro will be reduced or longer battery life due to deeper sleep mode of processor when not used. Comments appreciated.
We heard rumors/predictions from numerous like Ming-Chi Kuo of KGI Securities about what to expect in upcoming Macbook refresh noted like inclusion of Hashwell processor, 802.11ac, etc but there is no discussion as due to the inherent benefits of the Hashwell%u2019s architectural advancements how overall weight of macbook pro will be reduced or longer battery life due to deeper sleep mode of processor when not used. Comments appreciated.
Feel free to upgrade those specs, but that beautiful body needs no changing.
Agree there's little about the MBA that could be improved on design-wise. Except maybe the display itself. Retina and edge-to-edge glass like the MBP would be nice. I've never been crazy about that wide "border" on the MBA display…
Otherwise, how could it be made better form-wise? It's already nearly perfect...
HDDs have moving parts and therefore are more prone to breaking but I've heard heard a scenario were you can drop your notebook and have nothing but the HDD break and would have been better offer if you had an SSD. If you apply enough force to something it will break. I've seen chassises, motherboard and displays break a lot more often than a HDD from being dropped.
1) You're bringing up a defunct line of computers. It didn't occur to you that perhaps Sony has failed offer what customers wanted and yet you bring up a product that is no longer being made. How is that suppose to help your point in any way?
2) As previously mentioned, you can add a dGPU if you alter other aspects of the device. Apple's box volume for the Retina MBP, which doesn't use a CULV like the MBA, is only 12% more than the Sony Z Series and yet offers a lot more. Besides havng a non-Ultrabook TDP for the processor they have many more HW features, and, again, most importantly a much later battery. In fact it's well over twice the size of the battery in the Sony Series so unless Apple has invented TARDIS technology the battery in the 13" RMBPs takes up about 2x the internal space as in the Sony Z.
0. I have had a screen break once, but numerous head crashes. Nothing ever broke after I went to SSDs. Call me lucky.
1. What does Sony's marketing, or lack thereof have to do with anything? The Z-series was a very expensive line of very nice machines (with too small a screen at 13''). It was actively produced until last year, I believe, so hardware hasn't changed much. I disagree thant the MBP offers a lot more. It does NOT offer a DVD (or blue ray) drive, for one thing. It does offer a higher-res display. That's about it. As for the machine not being an ultrabook, neither was the Sony, as far as I recall. I am not sure if you have a point.
1a. I am not trying to argue, so I don't give a flying **** whether what I say "helps my point". I have direct experience with the machines in question, and I am describing it. You have a different experience, or different parameters of what you are looking for, hey, it's your money.
Not sure why Apple has to go changing the design every year, or every other year. If it works, and it's functional and fast and does what you need it to do, don't fix it.
0. I have had a screen break once, but numerous head crashes. Nothing ever broke after I went to SSDs. Call me lucky.
1. What does Sony's marketing, or lack thereof have to do with anything? The Z-series was a very expensive line of very nice machines (with too small a screen at 13''). It was actively produced until last year, I believe, so hardware hasn't changed much. I disagree thant the MBP offers a lot more. It does NOT offer a DVD (or blue ray) drive, for one thing. It does offer a higher-res display. That's about it. As for the machine not being an ultrabook, neither was the Sony, as far as I recall. I am not sure if you have a point.
1a. I am not trying to argue, so I don't give a flying **** whether what I say "helps my point". I have direct experience with the machines in question, and I am describing it. You have a different experience, or different parameters of what you are looking for, hey, it's your money.
1) Who said it was an Ultrabook? I compared the 17W TDP CPU, which you find in the Ultrabooks, to the 35W TPD of the 13" RMBP. You don't have to be a genius to know that higher watts means it requires more power.
2) You completely ignored the size differences of the batteries, which is the largest single component by volume in notebooks.
3) You're writing in a forum and have no point to make? Seriously? You are arguing a point. You are making a statement. You've stated that Apple could easily add a dGPU without affecting the functionality of the current unit's size or usability. I countered with details of how the GPU chip requires other components to function properly and how it would require more power to run in a space that is already somewhat wanting of longevity.
If MacBooks are going to be the highlight of WWDC I'm going to be pi*sed.
They might not have any hardware at WWDC. The Macbooks won't have significant design changes, if any. The Haswell chips will be launched on June 3rd, which is a Monday:
so Apple could update them on the store on the 4th/5th (Tue/Wed) a few days before WWDC. Assuming there's an OS 10.9, they can have them ship within 7 days with 10.9 or just include an update code.
There really isn't anything else for them to say about the laptops besides them having Haswell.
1) Who said it was an Ultrabook? I compared the 17W TDP CPU, which you find in the Ultrabooks, to the 35W TPD of the 13" RMBP. You don't have to be a genius to know that higher watts means it requires more power.
2) You completely ignored the size differences of the batteries, which is the largest single component by volume in notebooks.
3) You're writing in a forum and have no point to make? Seriously? You are arguing a point. You are making a statement. You've stated that Apple could easily add a dGPU without affecting the functionality of the current unit's size or usability. I countered with details of how the GPU chip requires other components to function properly and how it would require more power to run in a space that is already somewhat wanting of longevity.
My "point" is simply what I look for in a machine. I am well aware that different people have different requirements. The "no HDD" thing is a hard rule for me, and for many people I know (apparently Apple agrees). It is much less relevant for machines which are stationary, hence the iMac with the Fusion drive.
If Hashwell based macbook get rid of separate GPU and lower TDP, I suppose overall weight of mac would go down. My 13 inch mac Ivybridge processor/graphics performance seems more than adequate but with 2013 mac refresh, I like to see longer battery life and under 3lb for retina and under 4lb weight with Sdrive. Intel with ultrabook effort based on Hashwell is to reduce the weight and provide whole day battery without recharging.
I bought a MacBook Air about 3 months ago. We love it, but a Retina display would have been nice. Oh well, I'm sure our next one will have something that tops even that. I can't imagine a thinner laptop as that would be crazy thin or almost like two iPads hugging.
It'll be interesting if Apple does update the MacBook lines at WWDC. Seems they are saving all their cards for the fall then if they don't. Apple is always the mysterious company even when they are doing very well.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Who said there was anything wrong with an SSD? Fusion Drive is an SSD+HDD essentially in a special RAID 0 configuration. This allows for SSD speeds with HDD like storage at a fraction of the cost of an SSD setup of that capacity.
And what's this new argument that HDDs don't respond well to being dropped? What computer components do respond well to being drop? Are you saying that notebooks can't be successful if they have an HDD in them?
How can you be so sure when there is no room for the dGPU, fan, other cooling elements, or larger battery. It's not just not possible without reducing certain components, removing some components, or enlarging the size of the current device.
1. All I am saying is that I would never ever buy a notebook with a spinning drive. As for being dropped, I am sure no component loves being dropped, but I have dropped my SSD notebooks (primarily Apple, but also Sony and Lenovo) many times, with no ill effects. I wish I could say the same for HDD notebooks.
2. I know there are devices of the same size (Sony Vaio Z-series comes to mind) which are not bigger, and have a discrete graphics subsystem. While I am sure that it would be harder to put in a discrete GPU into the smaller box, I am quite certain that the primary reason is marketing. Please feel free to disagree.
It wouldn't be the first time that Apple delayed the 17" release over the smaller versions. It would be the first time they have gone this long between 17" update or without a 17" on the market. It's suspect they haven't told the 17" market that they are planning to update it once the iGPU is powerful enough to run a 3840x2400 display. That's higher than a 4K display. It seems close but 4K is 8.3 million pixels and this doubling for a 17' MBP would be nearly a million more pixels to push.
Perhaps it's to give them time to rewrite OS X to work better with non-doubling pixel density. Meaning, at some point they will update the resolution of their Apple Thnderbolt Displays and iMacs but I don't think they will go with 5120x3200; I think they'll go with a standard 4K when they make the move thereby making the PPI not go from 109 to 218, but only to 163, same as the original iPhone displays.
PS: Note that WQUXGA is a standard size that would match a 17" MBP going Retina. Can the Haswell iGPU handle 9.22 million pixels?
From what I read, the Haswell GPU will be as fast as nVidia GT 650M. That's the same performance you'd get with $1499 21.5 iMac.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6600/intel-haswell-gt3e-gpu-performance-compared-to-nvidias-geforce-gt-650m
HDDs have moving parts and therefore are more prone to breaking but I've heard heard a scenario were you can drop your notebook and have nothing but the HDD break and would have been better offer if you had an SSD. If you apply enough force to something it will break. I've seen chassises, motherboard and displays break a lot more often than a HDD from being dropped.
1) You're bringing up a defunct line of computers. It didn't occur to you that perhaps Sony has failed offer what customers wanted and yet you bring up a product that is no longer being made. How is that suppose to help your point in any way?
2) As previously mentioned, you can add a dGPU if you alter other aspects of the device. Apple's box volume for the Retina MBP, which doesn't use a CULV like the MBA, is only 12% more than the Sony Z Series and yet offers a lot more. Besides havng a non-Ultrabook TDP for the processor they have many more HW features, and, again, most importantly a much later battery. In fact it's well over twice the size of the battery in the Sony Series so unless Apple has invented TARDIS technology the battery in the 13" RMBPs takes up about 2x the internal space as in the Sony Z.
This is probably your best source on what to expect: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6355/intels-haswell-architecture
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR
Agreed.
Feel free to upgrade those specs, but that beautiful body needs no changing.
Agree there's little about the MBA that could be improved on design-wise. Except maybe the display itself. Retina and edge-to-edge glass like the MBP would be nice. I've never been crazy about that wide "border" on the MBA display…
Otherwise, how could it be made better form-wise? It's already nearly perfect...
If MacBooks are going to be the highlight of WWDC I'm going to be pi*sed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
HDDs have moving parts and therefore are more prone to breaking but I've heard heard a scenario were you can drop your notebook and have nothing but the HDD break and would have been better offer if you had an SSD. If you apply enough force to something it will break. I've seen chassises, motherboard and displays break a lot more often than a HDD from being dropped.
1) You're bringing up a defunct line of computers. It didn't occur to you that perhaps Sony has failed offer what customers wanted and yet you bring up a product that is no longer being made. How is that suppose to help your point in any way?
2) As previously mentioned, you can add a dGPU if you alter other aspects of the device. Apple's box volume for the Retina MBP, which doesn't use a CULV like the MBA, is only 12% more than the Sony Z Series and yet offers a lot more. Besides havng a non-Ultrabook TDP for the processor they have many more HW features, and, again, most importantly a much later battery. In fact it's well over twice the size of the battery in the Sony Series so unless Apple has invented TARDIS technology the battery in the 13" RMBPs takes up about 2x the internal space as in the Sony Z.
0. I have had a screen break once, but numerous head crashes. Nothing ever broke after I went to SSDs. Call me lucky.
1. What does Sony's marketing, or lack thereof have to do with anything? The Z-series was a very expensive line of very nice machines (with too small a screen at 13''). It was actively produced until last year, I believe, so hardware hasn't changed much. I disagree thant the MBP offers a lot more. It does NOT offer a DVD (or blue ray) drive, for one thing. It does offer a higher-res display. That's about it. As for the machine not being an ultrabook, neither was the Sony, as far as I recall. I am not sure if you have a point.
1a. I am not trying to argue, so I don't give a flying **** whether what I say "helps my point". I have direct experience with the machines in question, and I am describing it. You have a different experience, or different parameters of what you are looking for, hey, it's your money.
Not sure why Apple has to go changing the design every year, or every other year. If it works, and it's functional and fast and does what you need it to do, don't fix it.
1) Who said it was an Ultrabook? I compared the 17W TDP CPU, which you find in the Ultrabooks, to the 35W TPD of the 13" RMBP. You don't have to be a genius to know that higher watts means it requires more power.
2) You completely ignored the size differences of the batteries, which is the largest single component by volume in notebooks.
3) You're writing in a forum and have no point to make? Seriously? You are arguing a point. You are making a statement. You've stated that Apple could easily add a dGPU without affecting the functionality of the current unit's size or usability. I countered with details of how the GPU chip requires other components to function properly and how it would require more power to run in a space that is already somewhat wanting of longevity.
Comment deleted because I came off sounding like a smartass again and I'm trying not to do that anymore.
They might not have any hardware at WWDC. The Macbooks won't have significant design changes, if any. The Haswell chips will be launched on June 3rd, which is a Monday:
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/381070/intel-haswell-release-date-confirmed-for-june
so Apple could update them on the store on the 4th/5th (Tue/Wed) a few days before WWDC. Assuming there's an OS 10.9, they can have them ship within 7 days with 10.9 or just include an update code.
There really isn't anything else for them to say about the laptops besides them having Haswell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
1) Who said it was an Ultrabook? I compared the 17W TDP CPU, which you find in the Ultrabooks, to the 35W TPD of the 13" RMBP. You don't have to be a genius to know that higher watts means it requires more power.
2) You completely ignored the size differences of the batteries, which is the largest single component by volume in notebooks.
3) You're writing in a forum and have no point to make? Seriously? You are arguing a point. You are making a statement. You've stated that Apple could easily add a dGPU without affecting the functionality of the current unit's size or usability. I countered with details of how the GPU chip requires other components to function properly and how it would require more power to run in a space that is already somewhat wanting of longevity.
My "point" is simply what I look for in a machine. I am well aware that different people have different requirements. The "no HDD" thing is a hard rule for me, and for many people I know (apparently Apple agrees). It is much less relevant for machines which are stationary, hence the iMac with the Fusion drive.
If Hashwell based macbook get rid of separate GPU and lower TDP, I suppose overall weight of mac would go down. My 13 inch mac Ivybridge processor/graphics performance seems more than adequate but with 2013 mac refresh, I like to see longer battery life and under 3lb for retina and under 4lb weight with Sdrive. Intel with ultrabook effort based on Hashwell is to reduce the weight and provide whole day battery without recharging.
I bought a MacBook Air about 3 months ago. We love it, but a Retina display would have been nice. Oh well, I'm sure our next one will have something that tops even that. I can't imagine a thinner laptop as that would be crazy thin or almost like two iPads hugging.
It'll be interesting if Apple does update the MacBook lines at WWDC. Seems they are saving all their cards for the fall then if they don't. Apple is always the mysterious company even when they are doing very well.
actually it in a even thinner design to defeat that market again, would make it thinner than retina MacBook Pro.