Apple takes 57% of handset profits, Samsung accounts for remaining 43%

13

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 76
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    Except Apple's marketshare has gone up.

    No it hasn't. Both marketshare and margins have dropped.
  • Reply 42 of 76
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member


    Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

    No it hasn't. Both marketshare and margins have dropped.


     


    Sure it has.

  • Reply 43 of 76
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    solipsismx wrote: »
    If you have evidence of a YoY drop in market share, profit share or profits then please post them but one claiming "Apple sucks" because of a drop from Autumn to Spring are just as foolish as those saying "Samsung sucks" because of a drop from Spring to Autumn after the next iPhone is factored in.


    PS: Note that Canaccord Genuity states 72% for 4Q2012 and 69% for all of 2012. Do you know what that means? It means that there were quarters that were less than the 72% which is why the year is less than a single quarter.

    Firstly I am tired of people putting words in my mouth. I didn't say "Apple sucks"

    Secondly - Samsung release products all year round so Apples blip in its release quarter is the datum to ignore not Samsungs secular increase Q-Q

    Thirdly - this decrease should have been foretold. Apple dropped both margins and market share in the last Q. Profit share is pretty much a multiplication of both.

    Fourthly it's not just one quarter. Apples guidance is low for the next quarter with a drop of both margins and unit sales y-y. Meanwhile Android is gowing at 60% y-y and Samsungs percentage of that growth is profitable. Next Quarters market share is going to seem appalling.

    We all want Apple to win. I'd prefer if the debate was on.

    1) admitting Samsung is a major competitor. Agreeing with the stats.
    2) arguing about what is to be done.


    To me it's simple. Bigger screen ( no interest myself but other people do)
    Lower priced phones. More than one model a year.

    All we're getting is heads buried in the sand.
  • Reply 44 of 76
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member

    If I was a mod I would ban people who can't understand the difference between the world and the US. these are worldwide figures. You were all over the thread on Apples declining worldwide market share so you can't claim ignorance.

    Ridiculous post.
  • Reply 45 of 76
    kdarlingkdarling Posts: 1,640member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Juil View Post


    This I wonder, do Samsung list their manufacturing under this « Mobile communications » umbrella of theirs? If so, it would mean that the displays, silicon and memory they sell to their « clients » who are in fact « competitors » (like Apple, and the others) all go towards taking profit from the market indirectly.


     


    I too find it weird that their smartphones would earn them 90 % of their megacorporation-wide profits, and the rest (appliances, computers, electronics and what not) add up to a very small part of their overall profits.



     


    Easy enough to find out.  I Googled "samsung electronics", clicked through to the Investor Relations - Financials page, and looked at this PDF for 4Q 2012.


     


     



     


    CE = Consumer Electronics and includes laptops, TVs and appliances.


    IM  = IT and Mobile Communications (about 97% of revenue is cell phones)


    DP = Display panels (LCD, AMOLED) parts


     


    So the answer to your first question is that cell phones are separate from semiconductors. displays and appliances.  (But their profit is tallied alongside other IT profit.  The revenue is broken out for those, though.)


     


    As to your second comment, it looks like about half (edit: 60%) of Samsung Electronics' profits come from cell phones, not 90%.

  • Reply 46 of 76
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    [quote name="asdasd" url="/t/157374/apple-takes-57-of-handset-profits-samsung-accounts-for-remaining-43/40#post_2322484"]
    Firstly I am tired of people putting words in my mouth. I didn't say "Apple sucks" [/QUOTE]

    1) Where did I state you said Apple sucks?

    2) Odd that you would pull that despite that very sentence I used the other end of example with "Samsung sucks." You'd think that plus the use of 'one' would be a clue.

    [QUOTE]Secondly - Samsung release products all year round so Apples blip in its release quarter is the datum to ignore not Samsungs secular increase Q-Q [/QUOTE]

    Right, hence my point.

    [QUOTE]Thirdly - this decrease should have been foretold. Apple dropped both margins and market share in the last Q. Profit share is pretty much a multiplication of both.[/QUOTE]

    As TS has shown Apple increase their market share last quarter. As for foretelling, you are again arguing my point as I am foretelling that Apple will increase their take during a release quarter as opposed to the back end of an annual cycle.

    [QUOTE]Fourthly it's not just one quarter. Apples guidance is low for the next quarter with a drop of both margins and unit sales y-y. Meanwhile Android is gowing at 60% y-y and Samsungs percentage of that growth is profitable. Next Quarters market share is going to seem appalling.[/QUOTE]

    10 So the next quarter, which is even father from the release of the iPhone 5 release and still not over a year from the last release has lower guidance? Shocking¡

    2) Now you're willing to quoting YoY results when they favour Android — which makes no sense as it's not a handset nor the profits from a handset vendor — when before you're against looking at the iPhone's YoY results (which are stated here as 72% for 2012) simply because it make the iPhone look better than you want it to. Again, shocking¡

    [QUOTE]We all want Apple to win.[/QUOTE]

    It's really hard to see you wanting to look at the numbers objectively, and even harder to see how you want Apple to win.

    [QUOTE] I'd prefer if the debate was on.

    1) admitting Samsung is a major competitor. Agreeing with the stats.
    2) arguing about what is to be done.

    [/QUOTE]

    You want a [U][I][B]debate[/B][/I][/U] where we all [U][I][B]agree[/B][/I][/U] that Samsung is major competitor? :???:
  • Reply 47 of 76
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    asdasd wrote: »
    If I was a mod I would ban people who can't understand the difference between the world and the US. these are worldwide figures. You were all over the thread on Apples declining worldwide market share so you can't claim ignorance.

    Ridiculous post.

    You didn't quality your comment to mean the worldwide market. You simply stated market share was going down. TS proved that the share of the US market was reported as up during the last quarter results thus proving your statement incorrect.
  • Reply 48 of 76
    sockrolidsockrolid Posts: 2,789member


    How perfect.  Google gives Android away at no profit (except for profits from ads.)


    Android hardware manufacturers sell handsets at no profit (except for Samsung.)


    Beautiful symmetry there, no?

  • Reply 49 of 76
    graxspoograxspoo Posts: 162member
    In other words, Apple's phones are overpriced.
  • Reply 50 of 76
    kdarlingkdarling Posts: 1,640member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post


    How perfect.  Google gives Android away at no profit (except for profits from ads.)


    Android hardware manufacturers sell handsets at no profit (except for Samsung.)


    Beautiful symmetry there, no?



     


    Besides the ads, Google also makes money from licensing its own apps, and from its app store.


     


    Handset makers such as Huawei, ZTE, Lenovo, MicroMax, et al are making rising profits.


     


    Hopefully HTC will rebound with their model One, as well.

  • Reply 51 of 76
    osinlosinl Posts: 5member
    As this latest report shows
    http://www.asymco.com/2013/04/02/the-cost-of-selling-galaxies-updated/ and
    http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2013/04/04/apple-samsung-advertising-2/
    Marketing costs are carried in the SG&A (selling, general administration expenses ) or generally know as overhead which is not broken out by division, while it is generally know that a disproportional amount is spend in the mobile division
  • Reply 52 of 76
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    graxspoo wrote: »
    In other words, Apple's phones are overpriced.

    Yes, because we know how customers prefer to pay a lot more for the exact same user experience¡ It's a good think everyone but Apple is so altruistic with their product pricing¡
  • Reply 53 of 76
    zvzaxzvzax Posts: 3member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by gwmac View Post


    It is no niche and no fad. As more and more people are using their phones more like tablets and computers than phones you start to wish for a larger screen. I am as loyal an Apple person as you can find and in 25 years of purchasing computers have never bought anything other than an Apple computer.  I am no Warren Buffet but am in the top quintile. My next phone will likely be an S4 if Apple doesn't release an iPhone with a larger screen. I have an iPhone 5 now and with all I love about my iPhone I just can't get over the limitation and irritations I feel from this small 4" display. But I can say that I will be the first in line if Apple makes a larger version. It doesn't have to be 5" either, I would be happy with anything between 4.5" to as large as 5.3" with a strong preference for 4.8". 



     


    Agree with you.


     


    So far as I know, there are many customers that prefer large screen with 4.5 ~ 5.0.


     


    Best User Experience comes from what many customers want too, not only from Best Quality.


     


    Furthermore, Android phones serves FHD screen of very high


    ppi.


     


    I think, these Android phones would give better user experience


    to customers than that of iPhone.

  • Reply 54 of 76
    pokepoke Posts: 506member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post


    in 2012 Samsung eaks in at 20th position on world wide F500, and their primary money maker is TV sets, let alone chip making, and then phones.   It's not even the biggest business within it's own portfolio.


     


    apple is 55th on the F500.



     


     


    EDIT: Duh. I'm looking at the American data, you said world wide. Apologies.


     


     


    Time to update your data.


     


    http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/index.html


     


    Apple is now the 6th largest company in the world by revenues, 2nd largest by profit.


     


    Guess phones are big business after all.

  • Reply 55 of 76
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    zvzax wrote: »
    Furthermore, Android phones serves FHD screen of very high
    ppi.

    I think, these Android phones would give better user experience
    to customers than that of iPhone.

    1) Seems to me this devices over 4.5" with a high PPI that aren't PenTile are few and far between.

    2) A high PPI is only one aspect of measuring a display's quality.

    3) A good display is only aspect of a good UX.
  • Reply 56 of 76
    froodfrood Posts: 771member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by gwmac View Post


    Looking at the chart again made me realize that in Q1 2013 the iPhone 5 was still fairly new. You expect a drop the last two quarters before the next iPhone is released but not that soon after a release. I know it was released earlier than the 4S but still that first quarter was early enough in the product cycle that it should have had high demand as opposed to this and next quarter where people are already looking to the 5S or 6. In Q1 2013 the Samsung S3 was already far older than the iPhone 5. I think the Note II came out around the release of the iPhone 5 though. How did Samsung manage to do so well in Q1 this year and jump from 29% to 43% profit from the previous quarter while Apple dropped from 72% to 57% during those same two quarters? 



     


    Apple has the spikiest sales of the smartphone makers.  In Q4 of 2012 the iPhone 5 was released.  One of the reports here on AI cited that 80% of buyers were already iPhone users.  That actually makes the data line up pretty nicely.  Both Samsungs success in going from 29% to 43% and Apples going from 72% to 57% have to do with that spike.


     


    Apple is doing 'poorly' now- its more a case of them doing spectacularly last quarter with the new release.  Looking only at Samsung and Apple-


    Apple sold 12k phones to Samsungs 5k.  (72% Apple, 29% Samsung)


    Samsung only went from 5k to 6k phones from Q4 to Q1, which is good, but doesn't sound as impressive as "29% to 43%"


    The main driver wasn't that Samsung did so well, it is that Apple went from 12k to 8k.  So now its '6k of 14k total instead of 5k vs 17k total.


     


    Apple is doing great, you just can't expect them to sustain sales as if they were releasing a full new version of iPhone every quarter.


     


    The 'dropoff' you mentioned is also very real and something Apple is far more prone to.  That hasn't even started yet.  In the few months before the i5 I think Android was pushing close to 80% of sales market share.   I think something similar will happen again before the 5s.  Who is going to go out and buy an iPhone 5 a month before the 5s comes out.  Android doesn't see that as much and sales are a lot flatter because there's some new model of something out every quarter- be it the One, Google Nexus, S4, Note etc.

  • Reply 57 of 76
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by KDarling View Post


     


    Me too.


     


     


    Per device.  Or they could sell 2x as many to equal the same total profit.



     


    More like 4 - 5x as many.


     


    Samsung's marketshare is based on low to mid range phones and like Nokia before them, always has been.


     


    People seem to share this fantasy that everyone else is just like them, on American websites high end is wrongly believed to be the norm.

  • Reply 58 of 76
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kevt View Post


    Fear of cannibalisation of high end iPhone profits, is sometimes cited as a reason for Apple not producing an iPhone at a lower price point, but Samsung does seem to sell plenty of high end phones despite having lower cost options.



     


    Do they?


     


    Seeing as how Apple easily outsells their Galaxy S lines.

  • Reply 59 of 76
    am8449am8449 Posts: 376member
    Although Apple is doing well and leading the pack, perhaps they should pay some attention to the number two spot.

    If Apple cares about its stock price, it would be better for them to make sure that no single company is too strong of a player.
  • Reply 60 of 76
    drblankdrblank Posts: 3,383member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post



    Wait a minute... isn't Apple doomed and analysts are dumping its stock?


     


     


    Hers's a site you might want to read about Stock Analysts. Some VERY interesting information people should know.


     


    http://www.sec.gov/investor/pubs/analysts.htm

Sign In or Register to comment.