Apple CEO talks taxes ahead of hearing: 'We pay every dollar that we owe'

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  • Reply 81 of 132
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,716member
    mj1970 wrote: »
    You've done nothing whatsoever to clarify.
    You are being obtuse
    I know.
    Are you sure?
    I know. It's called socialism and communism and Marxism.
    Seriously? That is just an ignorant and downright stupid statement.
    If you don't understand, just admit it. I've not advocated us vs. them or me vs. the rest. That's just an ignorant assertion on your part.
    No, that is exactly what you are saying.
    I know.
    Not sure you do
    Are you using this analogy because you don't understand the fundamental differences between the state and a sports team?
    Yeah, that's it. (Shakes head)
    I understand looking out for others and even helping out those who are in need. I simply disagree with the means that you obviously support.
    Oh, ok
    And what responsibility is that exactly?
    Now you are just playing dumb
  • Reply 82 of 132
    mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paxman View Post



    You are being obtuse


     


    No, you are being vague.


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paxman View Post



    Are you sure?


     


    Yes.


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paxman View Post



    Seriously? That is just an ignorant and downright stupid statement.


     


    The ignorance and stupidity is on your part if you don't recognize the connection between what you said and those world views.


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paxman View Post



    No, that is exactly what you are saying.


     


    No, that's not at all what I'm saying.


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paxman View Post



    Not sure you do


     


    Good for you. image


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paxman View Post



    Yeah, that's it.


     


    Well, there's no other explanation.


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paxman View Post



    Oh, ok


     


    Good. You get it.


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paxman View Post



    Now you are just playing dumb


     


    No, I'm asking you to explain your claims in something more than pithy-sounding number-sticker philosophy.


     


     


    I think we're done.

  • Reply 83 of 132
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post




    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    Conservative Republicans, Libertarians and the like, generally behave very selfishly in my opinion.



     


    Thanks for sharing your opinion, however mis-informed it may be...at least regarding libertarians. The fallacy is thinking that advocating for liberty and against state provision of things implies taking a position against those things. The fallacy is thinking that because one opposed a group of people taking your property by force to be spent on things you may or may not agree with means you simply wish to keep all your money for yourself.


     


     



    Love to here your review of The Virtue of Selfishness by Ayn Rand 

  • Reply 84 of 132
    mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    Love to here your review of The Virtue of Selfishness by Ayn Rand 



     


    Would have to read it first. No time (or interest) right now. As general rule though, I wouldn't consider selfishness virtuous. That said, I try to avoid judging a book by its title. image

  • Reply 85 of 132
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


     


    Would have to read it first. No time (or interest) right now. As general rule though, I wouldn't consider selfishness virtuous. That said, I try to avoid judging a book by its title. image



    Yeah I guess Adam Shrugged is the only required reading these days


     


    Oops Freudian slip there. Oh well one BS book referencing another BS book, perhaps you can see how that happens. I meant Atlas Shrugged.

  • Reply 86 of 132
    mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    Yeah I guess Adam Shrugged is the only required reading these days



     


    What ever you are trying to imply is lost on me. Why don't you just come right out and say what you're thinking?


     


    In the mean time it is unclear how any of that is in any way a logical reply to what you quoted here:


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MJ1970


     


    Thanks for sharing your opinion, however mis-informed it may be...at least regarding libertarians. The fallacy is thinking that advocating for liberty and against state provision of things implies taking a position against those things. The fallacy is thinking that because one opposed a group of people taking your property by force to be spent on things you may or may not agree with means you simply wish to keep all your money for yourself.



     


    If you believe those are not fallacies, that's fine. Shifting gears (and subject) to the writings of Ayn Rand smells like a red herring to me.

  • Reply 87 of 132
    realisticrealistic Posts: 1,154member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post


    Apple is using every loophole and trick known to Wall Street and leveraging offshore accounts to "pay every dollar they owe" which is very little.  They used loopholes to pay dividends.


     


    Now, I'm all for business and pro-business but this Apple corporate tax dodging highlights a big problem where average working people like me pay the most into the system


     


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/17/apple-corporate-income-tax-rate_n_1429955.html



    And exactly how many billions in taxes did you pay to Uncle Sam in 2012?


     


     


    Stateside, where the California-based technology giant is based, Apple paid $12.3 billion (£7.7bn) in federal taxes on profit generated in the U.S., and just under $1.1 billion (£689m) in state taxes.

  • Reply 88 of 132
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post




    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    Yeah I guess Adam Shrugged is the only required reading these days



     


    What ever you are trying to imply is lost on me. Why don't you just come right out and say what you're thinking?


     


    In the mean time it is unclear how any of that is in any way a logical reply to what you quoted here:



    Sorry, let's reconvene after you've read the book as that probably will answer some of your questions.

  • Reply 89 of 132
    realisticrealistic Posts: 1,154member


    People just don't want to admit it. Apple pays every penny of taxes that they are legally supposed to pay just like everybody else is supposed to by law. Anybody who claims to pay more in taxes than mandated by law is either lying or not right in the head. If Congress doesn't like the amount of taxes Apple or anyone else pays, all Congress has to do is change the tax laws. This Cook interview before the government is just grandstanding by our politicians, nothing more.

  • Reply 90 of 132
    mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    Sorry, let's reconvene after you've read the book as that probably will answer some of your questions.



     


    It will be a while (if ever). What question do you think I have that you think this book will answer? Because the main question I have right now is how this is in any way a response to my post.

  • Reply 91 of 132
    gtrgtr Posts: 3,231member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post


    Apple is using every loophole and trick known to Wall Street and leveraging offshore accounts to "pay every dollar they owe" which is very little.  They used loopholes to pay dividends.


     


    Now, I'm all for business and pro-business but this Apple corporate tax dodging highlights a big problem where average working people like me pay the most into the system


     


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/17/apple-corporate-income-tax-rate_n_1429955.html



     


    Jeez, I hate slimy, little socialists like yourself who tell other people that have worked hard what to do with their money.


     


    image

  • Reply 92 of 132
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member


    Originally Posted by GTR View Post

    Jeez, I hate slimy, little socialists like yourself who tell other people that have worked hard what to do with their money.


     


    I don't think they have to be socialists to be slimy and think they can tell people what to do with their money. image


     


    I do think that any article with the word "tax" in its title should probably get moved to PO from the start.

  • Reply 93 of 132
    rcfarcfa Posts: 1,124member
    I think Cook is rather foolish to sit in a congressional hearing, being asked questions, and looking like Apple is on trial when it isn't. Cook should have taken a pass and instead, invited a few Senators to discuss tax policy with him at his headquarters in Cupertino without any cameras present. That is how you do things. Now Cook is going to open his big fat mouth, look like a criminal in front of questioning senators, and Apple's stock will fall again.

    Thanks Tim!

    Apple is in the process of a stock buy back program; the lower the price, the better for long term shareholders.

    Short-term speculators may get hurt or make a fortune, depending on their bets.
  • Reply 94 of 132
    6ryph3n6ryph3n Posts: 49member
    They're just mad because Apple doesn't give them as much money through lobbyists...
  • Reply 95 of 132
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    I do think that any article with the word "tax" in its title should probably get moved to PO from the start.



    This is very nice. You don't have any say in that now do you?

  • Reply 96 of 132
    gtrgtr Posts: 3,231member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    I don't think they have to be socialists to be slimy and think they can tell people what to do with their money. image


     


    I do think that any article with the word "tax" in its title should probably get moved to PO from the start.



     


    Agreed on both points.

  • Reply 97 of 132
    gtrgtr Posts: 3,231member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


    It will be a while (if ever). What question do you think I have that you think this book will answer? Because the main question I have right now is how this is in any way a response to my post.



     


    As a spectator of the discussion in this thread, disappointingly with no popcorn, I'd just like to say that you have argued your case admirably.

  • Reply 98 of 132
    lightknightlightknight Posts: 2,312member
    I strongly doubt anyone ever said the tech industry "illegaly avoids paying taxes". Like huge banks and the oil industry, the tech industry stays in the boundraries of the law and pays "every dollar they owe, as calculated by very expensive accountants and tax lawyers".


    Just like the "we'll never do a cheap iPhone" of Tim Cook, which never meant they won't do a cheaper iPhone but just that they won't do a crap-iPhone, this comment means nothing.


    "We're doin' it legal". Yeah, we know. That's the problem, and it's not Apple-specific. It stems from a societal model where you're valued at the money on your bank account, rather than by what you bring to society (taxes, innovation, art, whatever seems like a valid contribution to *our common pool of wealth*, which exists because we're a society instead of individuals in a cave alone).
  • Reply 99 of 132
    mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by lightknight View Post



    It stems from a societal model where you're valued at the money on your bank account, rather than by what you bring to society (taxes, innovation, art, whatever seems like a valid contribution to *our common pool of wealth*, which exists because we're a society instead of individuals in a cave alone).


     


    Perhaps the real problems are that we live in world where people assume that:


     


    a) the amount in your bank account (or on your pay stub) don't reflect what you have brought or are bringing to society, and,


    b) that taxes (money taken by force and spent by the government) does reflect your contribution to society, and,


    c) that wealth you have earned (through voluntary exchanges) is "our common pool of wealth", and,


    d) that wealth exists simply because because we're a society and not because you have worked hard, along with others, all of whom have been compensated for the value they have given to each other, resulting in the creation and growth of wealth


     


    Money is simply a measuring stick. The amount of you you have accumulated, assuming you've done so through voluntary exchanges and absent fraud and theft, does reflect the value you have contributed to society.

  • Reply 100 of 132
    herbapouherbapou Posts: 2,227member


    When Apple pays its quarterly dividends, the amount paid to US citizens/institution shareholders should be tax free because the recipient will be tax for that income. Otherwise its like double taxing.


     


    This would allow Apple to bring back to the US the amount paid from its offshores accounts.


     


    Very nice explaination of the problem with the oversee cash:


    http://goo.gl/ATVPl

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