I think Cook goofed on the statement, "It would be very expensive to bring that cash back to the United States," Cook told the subcommittee.
That money was never here in the US. So how can you bring it "back"? I think that sends the wrong message. People might think Apple sent $100B from the US to foreign countries. Not the case.
I love Apple. I've been a diehard Apple fan since the days of the Quadra. But I don't like corporate trickery to get around taxes. If Microsoft was doing this, we'd be ripping them apart. I wish our government would close these tax loopholes. I do think it's funny that Republicans are complaining, when they're the ones who fight to create loopholes for corporations and the top 1% in the first place.
Please educate yourself -- at least a little bit, on this issue -- before spouting off.
I wish Tim Cook would have simply said that Apple pays all taxes it owes and if they (politicians) have a problem with that they should get off their fat worthless asses and change the tax code. Then, he would just stand up and walk out of the room.
I love Apple. I've been a diehard Apple fan since the days of the Quadra. But I don't like corporate trickery to get around taxes. If Microsoft was doing this, we'd be ripping them apart. I wish our government would close these tax loopholes. I do think it's funny that Republicans are complaining, when they're the ones who fight to create loopholes for corporations and the top 1% in the first place.
Apple doesn't get around taxes. They don't owe the U.S. a dime for their over seas sales. There is no loophole to close.
Not relevant to the discussion, but every time that nervous looking guy with the glasses and forehead glare/flop sweat speaks I want to use his name and shout "BULLOCKS!!!".
Not that I disagree with him, and he seems far more intelligent than the Mr. Johnson doing the (dumb) questioning.
How much is Congress paying Cook for this? I'm pretty sure an hour of his time is worth a pretty penny, and that's just for coffee. Fair is fair, and the market has already established his going rate.
Probably nothing. Most companies send representatives other than their CEOs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2oh1
I love Apple. I've been a diehard Apple fan since the days of the Quadra. But I don't like corporate trickery to get around taxes. If Microsoft was doing this, we'd be ripping them apart. I wish our government would close these tax loopholes. I do think it's funny that Republicans are complaining, when they're the ones who fight to create loopholes for corporations and the top 1% in the first place.
Just because you aren't aware of something, don't assume it never happened. Commenting that the tax code is long or these are all loopholes really doesn't say much. It does annoy me when people start to assume Apple is the only company to be targeted on such matters just because of the events of a given day.
The Senate investigation, which included subpoenas and voluntary correspondence with the companies, provided an in-depth look into how the companies set up and use overseas tax shelters, as well as the impact on government coffers.
Levin acknowledged that Microsoft has broken no laws. But he blamed a loose tax code, Congress and tax officials for allowing the loopholes.
"The tax practices and gimmicks range from egregious to dubious validity," Levin said. "What these gimmicks do is shift the burden of taxes to citizens that don't use armies of lawyers and accountants and subsidiaries to lower their tax bill."
Tim Took explanations regarding the AOI cashholder existance are very clear. Its collects all the after tax profits from its internationnal subsidaries. This mean the foreign tax were all paid for, this is only place to hold the cash.
I was surprise to see the tax on the interest of that cash are paid in the US despite the fact that AOI as no country of residance. So in practice AOI pays its taxes like a US company. I dont think Apple could be more fair than this. All the US needs is a way to bring that cash into the US at a reasonable rate...
For starters cash used to pay dividends should come to the US tax free or at a very low rate because the shareholdesr revieving those dividends will be tax on them...
The U.S. government is crying because Apple refuses to give them billions of dollars for free, in addition to the taxes they owe.
It's not about Apple per-se. Their "tax avoidance" numbers are just the best match for dramatizing the issue. FWIW that Senate tax committee also criticized HP and Microsoft this past fall, finding fault with their tax avoidance strategies during a similar Senate fact-finding hearing. Apple's bigger numbers are just more attention-getting.
It truly saddens me that Apple needs to even deign to dignify these guys by their appearance and answering their questions. I only wish the US government were such a fucking tyrant that Apple could tell them all to go **** themselves without suffering the punishment that would be visited on them.
Rand Paul seems to be one of the few politicians with any common sense, at least in this case.
I never considered myself a fan of Rand Paul, but I totally agree with him on this. Are there no other Senators that see that this is a bit of a witch hunt? Unless Apple broke the law, then they have no one to blame but themselves in creating a byzantine tax code.
It truly saddens me that Apple needs to even deign to dignify these guys by their appearance and answering their questions. I only wish the US government were such a fucking tyrant that Apple could tell them all to go **** themselves without suffering the punishment that would be visited on them.
Levin is a complete fool and is being made a fool. Saying he is not vilifying Apple is an outright fabrication. Levin alone is on witch-hunt.
It is amazing to me that the 2 Senators questioning so far (Levin D MI, McCain R AZ) refuse to understand that this money was earned in foreign countries and all taxes were paid in those countries. The fact that Apple chooses to concentrate management of the profits centrally in Ireland is for efficiency and investment leverage.
All these 2 Senators see is that there is some multi-billion dollar amount that they think that they somehow deserve to tax!
I am ashamed and embarrassed to be governed by anyone so willfully stupid and stubborn.
Levin - go F yourself. Apple has done nothing wrong. If you are going to target the biggest company, then you might as well go after every company including GE. Great seeing how he can go after Apple and yet not worry about how screwed up his own state is!
I never considered myself a fan of Rand Paul, but I totally agree with him on this. Are there no other Senators that see that this is a bit of a witch hunt? Unless Apple broke the law, then they have no one to blame but themselves in creating a byzantine tax code.
I guess even raging jackasses can be right on occasion.
All large US multinationals can avoid paying taxes on income derived overseas yet individual US taxpayers have to pay on worldwide income in BOTH US and Foreign countries.
The fact is the US tax code need serious reform and to be simplified. I'm all pro-business and fiscally conservative and need to be competitive, but reform is needed and corporate tax rates need to be reduced. However, the burden of US tax revenue comes from workers like me with very few loopholes.
And I live in California which makes my tax rate 33% 9%=42% other new taxes levels - this is insane for me. Nearly half of my paycheck is taken away.
There is some level of unfairness and it's not Apple but all US multi-nationals....needs some balance.
It is amazing to me that the 2 Senators questioning so far (Levin D MI, McCain R AZ) refuse to understand that this money was earned in foreign countries and all taxes were paid in those countries. The fact that Apple chooses to concentrate management of the profits centrally in Ireland is for efficiency and investment leverage.
All these 2 Senators see is that there is some multi-billion dollar amount that they think that they somehow deserve to tax!
I am ashamed and embarrassed to be governed by anyone so willfully stupid and stubborn.
It is truly staggering to watch them totally fail to understand isn't it? Are they really stupid or are they so used to sticking to their talking points they have lost the ability to actually think? Hats of to Tim, I know I would have rolled my eyes and sighed in the face of such moronic incomprehension. Although I guess history warmed him against that.
Not to mention Apple seem to choose to pay US taxes on the interest the post pax paid earnings it aggregates in Ireland. I would suspect they could have easily paid Irish level tax rates on that as surely they don't need the money here in the USA.
Problem here is Apple fanboys never accept anything that make Apple negative. Apple makes recorded profits worldwide and do not want to sacrifice any for all Americans, but a certain amount of its shareholders. This is a greed story and never be complaint by Apple fanboys. Apple should not be protected here. Let say if Microsoft do this, what will Apllefanboys say? Hey..McCain don't you know that Apple can do no wrong here...ha ha ha
It is amazing to me that the 2 Senators questioning so far (Levin D MI, McCain R AZ) refuse to understand that this money was earned in foreign countries and all taxes were paid in those countries. The fact that Apple chooses to concentrate management of the profits centrally in Ireland is for efficiency and investment leverage.
All these 2 Senators see is that there is some multi-billion dollar amount that they think that they somehow deserve to tax!
I am ashamed and embarrassed to be governed by anyone so willfully stupid and stubborn.
I agree 100%. Apparently Mr. Levin doesn't get it. I just watched the half hour where he said over and over that Apple decided to shift the profits. That is exactly what they haven't done. The money was made and taxed off shore. Mr. Levin thinks that Apple should "shift" it to the US so it can be taxed. His argument that 95% of the IP was done in CA does not hold any water. The devices were almost exclusively built in China using Chinese factories and Chinese labor. I think that if Apple said to China that they were an American company so they weren't going to pay taxes except to the US there wouldn't be many devices shipping. So Mr. Levin thinks that regardless of where an American or American company earns its money it should have to pay taxes to the US. That is not what the tax code says.
Bottom Line: Companies do not pay US taxes on foreign derived income as long as income stays abroad yet American taxpayers are taxed on ALL income derived WORLDWIDE.
Comments
That money was never here in the US. So how can you bring it "back"? I think that sends the wrong message. People might think Apple sent $100B from the US to foreign countries. Not the case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2oh1
I love Apple. I've been a diehard Apple fan since the days of the Quadra. But I don't like corporate trickery to get around taxes. If Microsoft was doing this, we'd be ripping them apart. I wish our government would close these tax loopholes. I do think it's funny that Republicans are complaining, when they're the ones who fight to create loopholes for corporations and the top 1% in the first place.
Please educate yourself -- at least a little bit, on this issue -- before spouting off.
-kpluck
The U.S. government is crying because Apple refuses to give them billions of dollars for free, in addition to the taxes they owe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2oh1
I love Apple. I've been a diehard Apple fan since the days of the Quadra. But I don't like corporate trickery to get around taxes. If Microsoft was doing this, we'd be ripping them apart. I wish our government would close these tax loopholes. I do think it's funny that Republicans are complaining, when they're the ones who fight to create loopholes for corporations and the top 1% in the first place.
Apple doesn't get around taxes. They don't owe the U.S. a dime for their over seas sales. There is no loophole to close.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast
Not relevant to the discussion, but every time that nervous looking guy with the glasses and forehead glare/flop sweat speaks I want to use his name and shout "BULLOCKS!!!".
Not that I disagree with him, and he seems far more intelligent than the Mr. Johnson doing the (dumb) questioning.
How much is Congress paying Cook for this? I'm pretty sure an hour of his time is worth a pretty penny, and that's just for coffee. Fair is fair, and the market has already established his going rate.
Probably nothing. Most companies send representatives other than their CEOs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2oh1
I love Apple. I've been a diehard Apple fan since the days of the Quadra. But I don't like corporate trickery to get around taxes. If Microsoft was doing this, we'd be ripping them apart. I wish our government would close these tax loopholes. I do think it's funny that Republicans are complaining, when they're the ones who fight to create loopholes for corporations and the top 1% in the first place.
Just because you aren't aware of something, don't assume it never happened. Commenting that the tax code is long or these are all loopholes really doesn't say much. It does annoy me when people start to assume Apple is the only company to be targeted on such matters just because of the events of a given day.
http://money.cnn.com/2012/09/20/technology/offshore-tax-havens/index.html
Quote:
The Senate investigation, which included subpoenas and voluntary correspondence with the companies, provided an in-depth look into how the companies set up and use overseas tax shelters, as well as the impact on government coffers.
Levin acknowledged that Microsoft has broken no laws. But he blamed a loose tax code, Congress and tax officials for allowing the loopholes.
"The tax practices and gimmicks range from egregious to dubious validity," Levin said. "What these gimmicks do is shift the burden of taxes to citizens that don't use armies of lawyers and accountants and subsidiaries to lower their tax bill."
Tim Took explanations regarding the AOI cashholder existance are very clear. Its collects all the after tax profits from its internationnal subsidaries. This mean the foreign tax were all paid for, this is only place to hold the cash.
I was surprise to see the tax on the interest of that cash are paid in the US despite the fact that AOI as no country of residance. So in practice AOI pays its taxes like a US company. I dont think Apple could be more fair than this. All the US needs is a way to bring that cash into the US at a reasonable rate...
For starters cash used to pay dividends should come to the US tax free or at a very low rate because the shareholdesr revieving those dividends will be tax on them...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb
The U.S. government is crying because Apple refuses to give them billions of dollars for free, in addition to the taxes they owe.
It's not about Apple per-se. Their "tax avoidance" numbers are just the best match for dramatizing the issue. FWIW that Senate tax committee also criticized HP and Microsoft this past fall, finding fault with their tax avoidance strategies during a similar Senate fact-finding hearing. Apple's bigger numbers are just more attention-getting.
I see that Levin is a clueless dickhead too.
It truly saddens me that Apple needs to even deign to dignify these guys by their appearance and answering their questions. I only wish the US government were such a fucking tyrant that Apple could tell them all to go **** themselves without suffering the punishment that would be visited on them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
Rand Paul seems to be one of the few politicians with any common sense, at least in this case.
I never considered myself a fan of Rand Paul, but I totally agree with him on this. Are there no other Senators that see that this is a bit of a witch hunt? Unless Apple broke the law, then they have no one to blame but themselves in creating a byzantine tax code.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970
I see that Levin is a clueless dickhead too.
It truly saddens me that Apple needs to even deign to dignify these guys by their appearance and answering their questions. I only wish the US government were such a fucking tyrant that Apple could tell them all to go **** themselves without suffering the punishment that would be visited on them.
Levin is a complete fool and is being made a fool. Saying he is not vilifying Apple is an outright fabrication. Levin alone is on witch-hunt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
It is amazing to me that the 2 Senators questioning so far (Levin D MI, McCain R AZ) refuse to understand that this money was earned in foreign countries and all taxes were paid in those countries. The fact that Apple chooses to concentrate management of the profits centrally in Ireland is for efficiency and investment leverage.
All these 2 Senators see is that there is some multi-billion dollar amount that they think that they somehow deserve to tax!
I am ashamed and embarrassed to be governed by anyone so willfully stupid and stubborn.
I couldn't agree with you more.
Great seeing how he can go after Apple and yet not worry about how screwed up his own state is!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jakeb
I never considered myself a fan of Rand Paul, but I totally agree with him on this. Are there no other Senators that see that this is a bit of a witch hunt? Unless Apple broke the law, then they have no one to blame but themselves in creating a byzantine tax code.
I guess even raging jackasses can be right on occasion.
The fact is the US tax code need serious reform and to be simplified. I'm all pro-business and fiscally conservative and need to be competitive, but reform is needed and corporate tax rates need to be reduced. However, the burden of US tax revenue comes from workers like me with very few loopholes.
And I live in California which makes my tax rate 33% 9%=42% other new taxes levels - this is insane for me. Nearly half of my paycheck is taken away.
There is some level of unfairness and it's not Apple but all US multi-nationals....needs some balance.
It is truly staggering to watch them totally fail to understand isn't it? Are they really stupid or are they so used to sticking to their talking points they have lost the ability to actually think? Hats of to Tim, I know I would have rolled my eyes and sighed in the face of such moronic incomprehension. Although I guess history warmed him against that.
Not to mention Apple seem to choose to pay US taxes on the interest the post pax paid earnings it aggregates in Ireland. I would suspect they could have easily paid Irish level tax rates on that as surely they don't need the money here in the USA.
Apple makes recorded profits worldwide and do not want to sacrifice any for all Americans, but a certain amount of its shareholders.
This is a greed story and never be complaint by Apple fanboys. Apple should not be protected here. Let say if Microsoft do this, what will Apllefanboys say?
Hey..McCain don't you know that Apple can do no wrong here...ha ha ha
Tim and Peter have much, much better hair than Levin & McCain!
...Then there's the matter of intellect, experience, right-thinking and business acumen!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
It is amazing to me that the 2 Senators questioning so far (Levin D MI, McCain R AZ) refuse to understand that this money was earned in foreign countries and all taxes were paid in those countries. The fact that Apple chooses to concentrate management of the profits centrally in Ireland is for efficiency and investment leverage.
All these 2 Senators see is that there is some multi-billion dollar amount that they think that they somehow deserve to tax!
I am ashamed and embarrassed to be governed by anyone so willfully stupid and stubborn.
I agree 100%. Apparently Mr. Levin doesn't get it. I just watched the half hour where he said over and over that Apple decided to shift the profits. That is exactly what they haven't done. The money was made and taxed off shore. Mr. Levin thinks that Apple should "shift" it to the US so it can be taxed. His argument that 95% of the IP was done in CA does not hold any water. The devices were almost exclusively built in China using Chinese factories and Chinese labor. I think that if Apple said to China that they were an American company so they weren't going to pay taxes except to the US there wouldn't be many devices shipping. So Mr. Levin thinks that regardless of where an American or American company earns its money it should have to pay taxes to the US. That is not what the tax code says.
Bottom Line: Companies do not pay US taxes on foreign derived income as long as income stays abroad yet American taxpayers are taxed on ALL income derived WORLDWIDE.
This is a double standard