'ignorant' is such a needlessly objectionable word to use. Just saying ...
Why? It is often appropriate. While it is often meant pejoratively (or at least received that way) it generally means lack of knowledge and/or understanding of something. What word would be better?
So now we get to find out if all these unwarranted attacks on Apple are because of their excessive mindshare or because they didn't spend enough on legal bribes in Washington.
How exactly are these attacks "unwarranted" in your mind? Apple is using creative loopholes to avoid paying billions in taxes to the federal government. The only way I could argue that they are unwarranted is that the other companies using the same or similar tactics should be getting hammered on this too. Apple's unpaid taxes alone could fund several of the social programs that conservatives are itching to cut.
I'm not going to feel sorry for Apple because one of its executives gets called in to answer questions about their creative accounting practices. It's a company, not a person. People bitch about welfare for individuals but don't seem to give a crap about the corporate welfare.
This is sad. We all know that "lobbying" is just another word for corruption, payola, payoffs, bribes, etc.
It's so primitive, so ... middle-ages.
You'd think we'd be beyond that kind of corruption in this day and age.
Oh well, born too soon I suppose.
It is infuriating how spineless politicians are and how 'the people' (we) allow this to happen. Politicians are supposed to lead with vision. With a view to the long term future for the good of all. The principle is not complicated. It is like doctors being on the payroll of drug companies - how can their judgement be trusted? Some things need to be above and beyond big money. It undermines integrity and credibility.
How exactly are these attacks "unwarranted" in your mind? Apple is using creative loopholes to avoid paying billions in taxes to the federal government. The only way I could argue that they are unwarranted is that the other companies using the same or similar tactics should be getting hammered on this too. Apple's unpaid taxes alone could fund several of the social programs that conservatives are itching to cut.
I'm not going to feel sorry for Apple because one of its executives gets called in to answer questions about their creative accounting practices. It's a company, not a person. People bitch about welfare for individuals but don't seem to give a crap about the corporate welfare.
Unwarranted because Apple is paying every dollar they owe and it would be unfair to tax them at 35% for profits eArned in another country in which they've already paid their taxes.
I can't believe you think it's fair that, say, Apple builds a device in China that is sold in India that would then be taxed in the US at 35%. Seriously?!
'ignorant' is such a needlessly objectionable word to use. Just saying ...
Ignorance means a lack of knowledge or understanding. One can be very intelligent but ignorant of certain things. Human nature being what it is the hope that people will be different is futile. Human beings are tool using animals at the core, and motivated purely by sex, power, and greed. There will always be corrupt politicians, greedy individuals and corporations, bribery, skullduggery, murder, and the like. Learning to manage human nature is, in my opinion, better than hoping that one day all mankind will live harmoniously together in some utopian society. It ain't gonna happen, EVER. Just look at the pontificating going on in this thread, all the "this is the way it should be" nonsense about fairness and a just society. Such things never existed and they never will exist because of our nature.
Since Google can't compete in the marketplace and can't innovate and has to steal ...and then lobby politicians to make the theft legal, it's only right that Apple would fight back.
It's unfortunate that this is the case, but shows how corrupt the politicians are. Yesterday's hearing was just a shakedown, threatening Apple with even more taxes... threats that might go away with some well placed campaign contributions, and of course, that's the point.
Google wants to cheat by changing the rules of competition, and its' good for Apple to get int there to protect property rights.
It is infuriating how spineless politicians are and how 'the people' (we) allow this to happen. Politicians are supposed to lead with vision. With a view to the long term future for the good of all. The principle is not complicated. It is like doctors being on the payroll of drug companies - how can their judgement be trusted? Some things need to be above and beyond big money. It undermines integrity and credibility.
This corruption has existed forever...which is why in the USA they made the constitution such that the federal government was supposed to be pretty toothless. Alas, Lincoln pretty much ended that when he went to war with the states exercising their ultimate veto over the federal government. Since then, federal power has only grown, and quite dramatically over the decades.
You want an end to this corruption? Maybe we can start by getting rid of the laws that rig elections so that only republicans and democrats can win.
Unwarranted because Apple is paying every dollar they owe
Oh please, we both know that is actually bullshit. I know you're not that stupid. It might be technically true, but that is due to the outrageous loopholes in the tax code. Apple has their IP held by a company in Ireland that exists only on paper so that it can claim less profits in the US because of IP royalties paid to the Ireland based shell company (which is getting taxed a whopping 2% by the Irish government). They are paying nowhere 35% on US profits or elsewhere in the world. Apple and other large companies' tax avoidance tactics are deplorable and your seeming acceptance of it is mind boggling.
Oh please, we both know that is actually bullshit. I know you're not that stupid. It might be technically true, but that is due to the outrageous loopholes in the tax code. Apple has their IP held by a company in Ireland that exists only on paper so that it can claim less profits in the US because of IP royalties paid to the Ireland based shell company (which is getting taxed a whopping 2% by the Irish government). They are paying nowhere 35% on US profits or elsewhere in the world. Apple and other large companies' tax avoidance tactics are deplorable and your seeming acceptance of it is mind boggling.
This post is nothing more than an emotionally-driven blathering screed containing a muddle of plainly incorrect rejections of facts ("it is actually bullshit" that Apple is paying what they owe) immediately followed by begrudgingly admission that those facts are actually correct ("technically true") to opinion about how Apple (et al) has (legally) done this ("due to the outrageous loopholes in the tax code") and closing with opinions about the fact that they do ("tactics are deplorable") and starry-eyed incredulity that someone doesn't agree with you ("your seeming acceptance of it is mind boggling.")
Sheesh.
Chill.
First, so far as we know to date, what Apple has done is perfectly legal. Nor, arguably, is there anything immoral or unethical about it.
Secondly, we all get that some (even many) people, like yourself, find it deplorable that the US government has, heretofore, been unable to pick Apple's pocket more. But chill. It is what it is. If you don't like it, there's a process to change it. Go ahead and get your buddies together and vote for the people who will change the rules to steal more of Apple's money. Though please don't whine about the negative consequences that are likely to come from that if they succeed.
Oh please, we both know that is actually bullshit. I know you're not that stupid. It might be technically true, but that is due to the outrageous loopholes in the tax code. Apple has their IP held by a company in Ireland that exists only on paper so that it can claim less profits in the US because of IP royalties paid to the Ireland based shell company (which is getting taxed a whopping 2% by the Irish government). They are paying nowhere 35% on US profits or elsewhere in the world. Apple and other large companies' tax avoidance tactics are deplorable and your seeming acceptance of it is mind boggling.
So this building in Cork, Ireland with people working for Apple in it is "only on paper", is it?
How exactly are these attacks "unwarranted" in your mind? Apple is using creative loopholes to avoid paying billions in taxes to the federal government. The only way I could argue that they are unwarranted is that the other companies using the same or similar tactics should be getting hammered on this too. Apple's unpaid taxes alone could fund several of the social programs that conservatives are itching to cut.
I'm not going to feel sorry for Apple because one of its executives gets called in to answer questions about their creative accounting practices. It's a company, not a person. People bitch about welfare for individuals but don't seem to give a crap about the corporate welfare.
Why does the US deserve 35% of profits earned due to sales overseas? And Apple is just making the best of the system that Congress has created. While many like to say that the "system that Congress has created" is a misnomer because companies hire lobbyists, this article points out that Apple has never been big on lobbying. They're "doubling lobbying spending" to $4 million, pocket change for a company the size of Apple. They've never really spent that much on lobbying so it's safe to say that Apple is just following the laws that Congress has passed.
Also, if companies are really paying lobbyists to lobby Congress for favorable laws, thereby rigging the system, isn't it kind of hypocritical for Congress to cry foul? The members of Congress who are part of that committee to investigate Apple's tax policies probably accepted money from lobbyists and wrote laws in favor of companies who paid the lobbyists. Now Congress wants to score points in front of the camera for criticizing Apple all because they followed the laws that Congress not only wrote, but also took lobbyists' money for writing. It's nothing more than a political dog and pony show.
If Congress was really pissed off about Apple's tax avoidance policies, why can't they get their act together and pass something? Evidently, they would much rather deflect attention away from their pathetic ineptitude.
Comments
'ignorant' is such a needlessly objectionable word to use. Just saying ...
Originally Posted by lkrupp
Not born too soon, just ignorant of human nature.
No, lobbying isn't "human nature".
Sure it is. Everyone pleads their case even children do it. Mommy won't let them do something, they'll go lobby Dad to let them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
'ignorant' is such a needlessly objectionable word to use. Just saying ...
Why? It is often appropriate. While it is often meant pejoratively (or at least received that way) it generally means lack of knowledge and/or understanding of something. What word would be better?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
So now we get to find out if all these unwarranted attacks on Apple are because of their excessive mindshare or because they didn't spend enough on legal bribes in Washington.
How exactly are these attacks "unwarranted" in your mind? Apple is using creative loopholes to avoid paying billions in taxes to the federal government. The only way I could argue that they are unwarranted is that the other companies using the same or similar tactics should be getting hammered on this too. Apple's unpaid taxes alone could fund several of the social programs that conservatives are itching to cut.
I'm not going to feel sorry for Apple because one of its executives gets called in to answer questions about their creative accounting practices. It's a company, not a person. People bitch about welfare for individuals but don't seem to give a crap about the corporate welfare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
This is sad. We all know that "lobbying" is just another word for corruption, payola, payoffs, bribes, etc.
It's so primitive, so ... middle-ages.
You'd think we'd be beyond that kind of corruption in this day and age.
Oh well, born too soon I suppose.
It is infuriating how spineless politicians are and how 'the people' (we) allow this to happen. Politicians are supposed to lead with vision. With a view to the long term future for the good of all. The principle is not complicated. It is like doctors being on the payroll of drug companies - how can their judgement be trusted? Some things need to be above and beyond big money. It undermines integrity and credibility.
Unwarranted because Apple is paying every dollar they owe and it would be unfair to tax them at 35% for profits eArned in another country in which they've already paid their taxes.
I can't believe you think it's fair that, say, Apple builds a device in China that is sold in India that would then be taxed in the US at 35%. Seriously?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
'ignorant' is such a needlessly objectionable word to use. Just saying ...
Ignorance means a lack of knowledge or understanding. One can be very intelligent but ignorant of certain things. Human nature being what it is the hope that people will be different is futile. Human beings are tool using animals at the core, and motivated purely by sex, power, and greed. There will always be corrupt politicians, greedy individuals and corporations, bribery, skullduggery, murder, and the like. Learning to manage human nature is, in my opinion, better than hoping that one day all mankind will live harmoniously together in some utopian society. It ain't gonna happen, EVER. Just look at the pontificating going on in this thread, all the "this is the way it should be" nonsense about fairness and a just society. Such things never existed and they never will exist because of our nature.
Since Google can't compete in the marketplace and can't innovate and has to steal ...and then lobby politicians to make the theft legal, it's only right that Apple would fight back.
It's unfortunate that this is the case, but shows how corrupt the politicians are. Yesterday's hearing was just a shakedown, threatening Apple with even more taxes... threats that might go away with some well placed campaign contributions, and of course, that's the point.
Google wants to cheat by changing the rules of competition, and its' good for Apple to get int there to protect property rights.
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman
It is infuriating how spineless politicians are and how 'the people' (we) allow this to happen. Politicians are supposed to lead with vision. With a view to the long term future for the good of all. The principle is not complicated. It is like doctors being on the payroll of drug companies - how can their judgement be trusted? Some things need to be above and beyond big money. It undermines integrity and credibility.
This corruption has existed forever...which is why in the USA they made the constitution such that the federal government was supposed to be pretty toothless. Alas, Lincoln pretty much ended that when he went to war with the states exercising their ultimate veto over the federal government. Since then, federal power has only grown, and quite dramatically over the decades.
You want an end to this corruption? Maybe we can start by getting rid of the laws that rig elections so that only republicans and democrats can win.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
This is sad. We all know that "lobbying" is just another word for corruption, payola, payoffs, bribes, etc.
It's so primitive, so ... middle-ages.
You'd think we'd be beyond that kind of corruption in this day and age.
Oh well, born too soon I suppose.
We also know that "senate hearings" means "shakedown".
Apple been got good, maybe they should have learned from Microsoft's experiences in the nineties.
Pay up or get grilled, roasted, dragged over the coals, the Mafia ain't got nothing on the US senate when it comes to extortion.
Oh please, we both know that is actually bullshit. I know you're not that stupid. It might be technically true, but that is due to the outrageous loopholes in the tax code. Apple has their IP held by a company in Ireland that exists only on paper so that it can claim less profits in the US because of IP royalties paid to the Ireland based shell company (which is getting taxed a whopping 2% by the Irish government). They are paying nowhere 35% on US profits or elsewhere in the world. Apple and other large companies' tax avoidance tactics are deplorable and your seeming acceptance of it is mind boggling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius
Oh please, we both know that is actually bullshit. I know you're not that stupid. It might be technically true, but that is due to the outrageous loopholes in the tax code. Apple has their IP held by a company in Ireland that exists only on paper so that it can claim less profits in the US because of IP royalties paid to the Ireland based shell company (which is getting taxed a whopping 2% by the Irish government). They are paying nowhere 35% on US profits or elsewhere in the world. Apple and other large companies' tax avoidance tactics are deplorable and your seeming acceptance of it is mind boggling.
This post is nothing more than an emotionally-driven blathering screed containing a muddle of plainly incorrect rejections of facts ("it is actually bullshit" that Apple is paying what they owe) immediately followed by begrudgingly admission that those facts are actually correct ("technically true") to opinion about how Apple (et al) has (legally) done this ("due to the outrageous loopholes in the tax code") and closing with opinions about the fact that they do ("tactics are deplorable") and starry-eyed incredulity that someone doesn't agree with you ("your seeming acceptance of it is mind boggling.")
Sheesh.
Chill.
First, so far as we know to date, what Apple has done is perfectly legal. Nor, arguably, is there anything immoral or unethical about it.
Secondly, we all get that some (even many) people, like yourself, find it deplorable that the US government has, heretofore, been unable to pick Apple's pocket more. But chill. It is what it is. If you don't like it, there's a process to change it. Go ahead and get your buddies together and vote for the people who will change the rules to steal more of Apple's money. Though please don't whine about the negative consequences that are likely to come from that if they succeed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius
Oh please, we both know that is actually bullshit. I know you're not that stupid. It might be technically true, but that is due to the outrageous loopholes in the tax code. Apple has their IP held by a company in Ireland that exists only on paper so that it can claim less profits in the US because of IP royalties paid to the Ireland based shell company (which is getting taxed a whopping 2% by the Irish government). They are paying nowhere 35% on US profits or elsewhere in the world. Apple and other large companies' tax avoidance tactics are deplorable and your seeming acceptance of it is mind boggling.
So this building in Cork, Ireland with people working for Apple in it is "only on paper", is it?
The US does not control other countries laws.
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius
How exactly are these attacks "unwarranted" in your mind? Apple is using creative loopholes to avoid paying billions in taxes to the federal government. The only way I could argue that they are unwarranted is that the other companies using the same or similar tactics should be getting hammered on this too. Apple's unpaid taxes alone could fund several of the social programs that conservatives are itching to cut.
I'm not going to feel sorry for Apple because one of its executives gets called in to answer questions about their creative accounting practices. It's a company, not a person. People bitch about welfare for individuals but don't seem to give a crap about the corporate welfare.
Why does the US deserve 35% of profits earned due to sales overseas? And Apple is just making the best of the system that Congress has created. While many like to say that the "system that Congress has created" is a misnomer because companies hire lobbyists, this article points out that Apple has never been big on lobbying. They're "doubling lobbying spending" to $4 million, pocket change for a company the size of Apple. They've never really spent that much on lobbying so it's safe to say that Apple is just following the laws that Congress has passed.
Also, if companies are really paying lobbyists to lobby Congress for favorable laws, thereby rigging the system, isn't it kind of hypocritical for Congress to cry foul? The members of Congress who are part of that committee to investigate Apple's tax policies probably accepted money from lobbyists and wrote laws in favor of companies who paid the lobbyists. Now Congress wants to score points in front of the camera for criticizing Apple all because they followed the laws that Congress not only wrote, but also took lobbyists' money for writing. It's nothing more than a political dog and pony show.
If Congress was really pissed off about Apple's tax avoidance policies, why can't they get their act together and pass something? Evidently, they would much rather deflect attention away from their pathetic ineptitude.