I deal with the political atmosphere all the time in the city and have to do the occasional visit to City Hall when the powers-at-be try raising yet another business fee, or tax. I came off as grumpy because the sight of how my once-lovely city has turned into a toilet just breaks my heart. Wannabe locals want to ban the flying of jets during fleetweek because it interrupts their tea-time with Biff, Tad, and Muffy, a convicted wife-beater (Ross Mirkarimi) is the Sheriff, the Board of Supervisors would rather spend my taxes to ban toys in happy meals than fix our streets, provide free sex-change operations on my tab all the while getting a cadillac-pension for life after a few short years in the office and leaving behind a wasteland that they created. Yeah, I have plenty to be grumpy about. SF has an absolutely incredible opportunity to generate even more revenue, bring more people to a great location, bring more jobs (who then pay taxes) and what do they do? They put it all on hiatus because of some fountain that no one sees, or knew it existed, and some a$$hat critic that no one cares about suddenly decides it's sacrilege! I mean WTF?? Really?
On the flip side, the location of the fountain does not do it justice. It's in a forgotten corner, behind a fugly building, always in the shadows. From that perspective, I can see why people would think the fountain is ugly. Looked up close, it's actually a very cool, intricate piece of art. They should move it to a location on the plaza itself where it will not only be in the sun, but people will actually be able to see it.
As it stands, the street where Levi's is (the future Apple store) is not an active shopping area on Union Square. It's Levi's, Tiffanny, Sak's 5th Avenue, and a Williams Sonoma. Williams Sonoma is a nice store, the others are not welcoming, and not high-foot traffic. That part of Post Street is lightly traveled. Apple could change that, and the other business on that street would absolutely love it.
I'm born and raised in San Francisco and going on 45 years old. I have generations of family living here. Hell, I'm older than that fountain. You do not speak for me, and many of my neighbors that have been here far longer than even I have been. Whatever you may think our "Local SF values" are, one thing is for certain, my city is more screwed up than most other places and our elected officials have f-ed it up pretty well. When other cities buy their homeless citizens a one-way bus ticket to San Francisco because they know we will gladly accept their problems and my hard-earned tax dollars pays for this while no one fixes my potholes and pays our teachers, while bus drivers are earning 6-figure salaries with lifetime benefits while I scrape by, there's not much room left to go downhill.
If that fountain is so important, move it to the plaza itself so people can actually SEE it. I for one will GLADLY have a high revenue-generating, tax-paying and job creating business there than some rarely-seen fixture that you bestow way more credit than it deserves.
Fricken libtard mentality. I wonder if you're a San Francisco native, or just some transplant from somewhere else that has a false-belief that living here a few years suddenly qualifies you as knowing what's best for MY city. The reality is our current SF values are seriously screwed-up and an embarrassment. There's a reason SF is a mockery in the US.
Let me guess, you're probably an Ammiano fan too?
Move the damn fountain.
the great problem with your entire thesis is that the kind of City we built with our "local SF values" - liberal values - over the last almost 50 years (since the "Freeway Revolt" of the mid-60's, when i got here from hometown Oakland across the Bay) has turned out today to be one of the most very prosperous in the world. people WANT to be here because of what we accomplished in livability and human values, this one fountain - an new idea for such POPO's (private owned public open space) at the time - being a very tiny but apt example.
if your SF hometown "embarrasses" you today, neighbor, then you need to move to Texas. and not Austin, 'cause it's too much like SF. Dallas, i think.
I do find the fountain ugly but beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, I guess. I can see how this fountain might represent the values of many SF citizens but I am equally sure it doesn't represent 'the city's values' as such. I certainly hope not. Regardless, you must be an old curmudgeon - you speak as if FANCY is a derogatory term describing the Apple store. And you dismiss Apple for to be in Union Square merely for the "prestige" location. Well... YEAH! Of course. That is the point, isn't it? Perhaps the fountain would be better served if it was moved to a less prestige location?
or perhaps the City would be better severed if Apple moved its store to another location, like on Central Market Street which could really use such an economic anchor ? what is so special about one more Apple outlet? they are located in boring malls all over the world. what special character does it bring to Union Square, which is already surrounded with high-end chain stores? like Nieman Marcus, Saks, Hermes, etc. etc. etc.
what is so special about one more Apple outlet? they are located in boring malls all over the world. what special character does it bring to Union Square, which is already surrounded with high-end chain stores? like Nieman Marcus, Saks, Hermes, etc. etc. etc.
answer: none whatsoever.
When did Apple get into the 'urban character' business?
In any event, did someone seek out your opinion on whether Apple needs another 'outlet'? Or are you just naturally arrogant?
That is exactly what I said! Maybe what might happen is that Apple will end up creating even a bigger store and I might even reach all the way to Grand Hyatt with entrance from the hotel itself.
When did Apple get into the 'urban character' business?
In any event, did someone seek out your opinion on whether Apple needs another 'outlet'? Or are you just naturally arrogant?
in SF, everyone's opinions about proposed new buildings and stores is routinely treated with respect, and a vigorous debate is normal. even before the public hearing approval process starts. and urban character is valued very highly. any business or developer that wants to build here has to get into the urban character business, like it or not. especially for a location of such civic prominence. like they say, this ain't Kansas, Toto.
Comments
I deal with the political atmosphere all the time in the city and have to do the occasional visit to City Hall when the powers-at-be try raising yet another business fee, or tax. I came off as grumpy because the sight of how my once-lovely city has turned into a toilet just breaks my heart. Wannabe locals want to ban the flying of jets during fleetweek because it interrupts their tea-time with Biff, Tad, and Muffy, a convicted wife-beater (Ross Mirkarimi) is the Sheriff, the Board of Supervisors would rather spend my taxes to ban toys in happy meals than fix our streets, provide free sex-change operations on my tab all the while getting a cadillac-pension for life after a few short years in the office and leaving behind a wasteland that they created. Yeah, I have plenty to be grumpy about. SF has an absolutely incredible opportunity to generate even more revenue, bring more people to a great location, bring more jobs (who then pay taxes) and what do they do? They put it all on hiatus because of some fountain that no one sees, or knew it existed, and some a$$hat critic that no one cares about suddenly decides it's sacrilege! I mean WTF?? Really?
On the flip side, the location of the fountain does not do it justice. It's in a forgotten corner, behind a fugly building, always in the shadows. From that perspective, I can see why people would think the fountain is ugly. Looked up close, it's actually a very cool, intricate piece of art. They should move it to a location on the plaza itself where it will not only be in the sun, but people will actually be able to see it.
As it stands, the street where Levi's is (the future Apple store) is not an active shopping area on Union Square. It's Levi's, Tiffanny, Sak's 5th Avenue, and a Williams Sonoma. Williams Sonoma is a nice store, the others are not welcoming, and not high-foot traffic. That part of Post Street is lightly traveled. Apple could change that, and the other business on that street would absolutely love it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal
I'm born and raised in San Francisco and going on 45 years old. I have generations of family living here. Hell, I'm older than that fountain. You do not speak for me, and many of my neighbors that have been here far longer than even I have been. Whatever you may think our "Local SF values" are, one thing is for certain, my city is more screwed up than most other places and our elected officials have f-ed it up pretty well. When other cities buy their homeless citizens a one-way bus ticket to San Francisco because they know we will gladly accept their problems and my hard-earned tax dollars pays for this while no one fixes my potholes and pays our teachers, while bus drivers are earning 6-figure salaries with lifetime benefits while I scrape by, there's not much room left to go downhill.
If that fountain is so important, move it to the plaza itself so people can actually SEE it. I for one will GLADLY have a high revenue-generating, tax-paying and job creating business there than some rarely-seen fixture that you bestow way more credit than it deserves.
Fricken libtard mentality. I wonder if you're a San Francisco native, or just some transplant from somewhere else that has a false-belief that living here a few years suddenly qualifies you as knowing what's best for MY city. The reality is our current SF values are seriously screwed-up and an embarrassment. There's a reason SF is a mockery in the US.
Let me guess, you're probably an Ammiano fan too?
Move the damn fountain.
the great problem with your entire thesis is that the kind of City we built with our "local SF values" - liberal values - over the last almost 50 years (since the "Freeway Revolt" of the mid-60's, when i got here from hometown Oakland across the Bay) has turned out today to be one of the most very prosperous in the world. people WANT to be here because of what we accomplished in livability and human values, this one fountain - an new idea for such POPO's (private owned public open space) at the time - being a very tiny but apt example.
if your SF hometown "embarrasses" you today, neighbor, then you need to move to Texas. and not Austin, 'cause it's too much like SF. Dallas, i think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman
I do find the fountain ugly but beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, I guess. I can see how this fountain might represent the values of many SF citizens but I am equally sure it doesn't represent 'the city's values' as such. I certainly hope not. Regardless, you must be an old curmudgeon - you speak as if FANCY is a derogatory term describing the Apple store. And you dismiss Apple for to be in Union Square merely for the "prestige" location. Well... YEAH! Of course. That is the point, isn't it? Perhaps the fountain would be better served if it was moved to a less prestige location?
or perhaps the City would be better severed if Apple moved its store to another location, like on Central Market Street which could really use such an economic anchor ? what is so special about one more Apple outlet? they are located in boring malls all over the world. what special character does it bring to Union Square, which is already surrounded with high-end chain stores? like Nieman Marcus, Saks, Hermes, etc. etc. etc.
answer: none whatsoever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman
Holy crap - another curmudgeon. Are there a lot of you in SF?
calling us a "curmudgeon" is like us calling you "wet behind the ears";)
When did Apple get into the 'urban character' business?
In any event, did someone seek out your opinion on whether Apple needs another 'outlet'? Or are you just naturally arrogant?
Quote:
Originally Posted by city
Put the fountain in the store.
That is exactly what I said! Maybe what might happen is that Apple will end up creating even a bigger store and I might even reach all the way to Grand Hyatt with entrance from the hotel itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
When did Apple get into the 'urban character' business?
In any event, did someone seek out your opinion on whether Apple needs another 'outlet'? Or are you just naturally arrogant?
in SF, everyone's opinions about proposed new buildings and stores is routinely treated with respect, and a vigorous debate is normal. even before the public hearing approval process starts. and urban character is valued very highly. any business or developer that wants to build here has to get into the urban character business, like it or not. especially for a location of such civic prominence. like they say, this ain't Kansas, Toto.
http://www.sfsota.org/sota.cfm