Given the tonality of the previous comments, I did not intend to participate to this "discussion", especially given the fact that from a personal standpoint, I also question the usefulness of this tax.....
I only wanted to precise to jragosta that the reason for this situation is that Apple challenges the way the amount is calculated, but not the principle itself. This dispute will be settled through the adequate legal body, and Apple has provisioned the amount anyway.
That's the kind of accounting issue I was suggesting.
It's not a case of Apple refusing to pay the tax or collecting tax that they didn't plan to pay. It's a question of just how much they actually owe - which is a factual matter to be resolved, not a reason to attack Apple's integrity (which seems to be the tenor of the original article).
The $6.5 million sum being charged in France is minuscule compared to the billions in income taxes that some believe should be paid in the EU.
TFTFY
Mind that "some" believe these Billion $ taxes should instead be paid in the US ... or at both places ... Finally, the only consensus is that Apple should pay ....
To those interested in how Apple legally (like many other multinational companies) avoids taxes in EU see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Sandwich, and you will know everything about the "Dutch sandwich"/ double Irish arrangement
Major companies known to employ the double Irish strategy are:
In the EU not in every county has this law and the ones that do it is hurting consumers that is for sure, and you wonder why their economy is still sucking wind. In countries which have the tax and they have DVR service the biggest DVR drive they can get from their service provider is 160GB, since the tax is close to 10 Euro. and the cable company pays this cost not the consumer since they do not buy the cable box. The taxes goes up more then double as the storage capacity doubles.
As someone pointed out Apple is arguing the amount of tax is because the calculation is not simple and it based on actually usable capacity to storage copy protected content. Apple is probably subtracting out the amount used to run the device. Also, Apple is probably not passing the tax on, since in France you can pay the same price for an Ipad as any other EU country. Apple is absorbing the cost for the France citizens. Or the rest of us are subsidizing the French government for it citizens.
The $6.5 million sum being charged in France is minuscule compared to the billions in income taxes that some believe should be paid in the EU.
TFTFY
Who believes that? Obviously, not the people who write the laws that Apple is following.
Everything Apple is doing is perfectly legal. They have no obligation (moral or otherwise) to pay more in taxes than required. In fact, their obligation to the shareholders requires them to pay the minimum required taxes - which is what they do.
If EU officials think Apple should be paying more, they are free to write the laws however they think they should be written.
Taxes will solve Apple's cash hoard problems. If Apple pays all the taxes everyone claims they owe because of what the 'intent and spirit' of the tax law were and are then the cash will be gone and Apple will be in debt. No sense in Apple paying only the taxes that Apple is legally obligated to pay because then everyone will criticize them for not paying their 'fair' share.
Taxes will solve Apple's cash hoard problems. If Apple pays all the taxes everyone claims they owe because of what the 'intent and spirit' of the tax law were and are then the cash will be gone and Apple will be in debt.
I don't think they've avoided over $20b total and they have $145b cash. Paying expected tax rates wouldn't make a dent on their cash pile. Even repatriating all of it would leave them with over $97b.
All of the money was paid by customers. This $6.5m is collected like sales tax and not really up to Apple to decide on. It goes straight from the customer to the tax recipient. You can see on the French checkout page the fee on the iPad Mini:
The SACEM organisation apparently collects over 800m euros a year, 15% of which goes to pay 1400 staff. That's an average salary of 85k euros/year. Apparently the SACEM president got 750k as a salary. Tax collection is nice work if you can get it.
In other news, America orders Apple to immediately start giving out free iPads to everyone not owning any.
What the bloody hell, you can just "imagine" news now?
France did not order Apple to do anything. SACEM, which is the French equivalent of RIAA, did.
If RIAA (or the pro-gun movement, or any kind of non-government thingie) decides to demand something, it doesn't mean the country did it, what kind of "journalism" is this?
When Canada had the iPod levy (thankfully, they don't anymore), lots of people used that levy to justify piracy. Be careful, France. Do you want your citizens to think "hey, I already pay money to the artists, why should I pay them twice?"
Actually it is not a piracy tax, but rather a tax on your right to copy and re-use a legally acquired content for private purposes. For example you buy a CD, you rip it to put it on your phone, on an other CD for your car etc... It does not give you any right to download content illegally. That being said, the way the amount of this tax is being chosen, and the way it is collected is simply outrageous. And last, this tax is not an invention of the current French government, it has been around for a few years in most European countries.
…a tax on your right to copy and re-use a legally acquired content for private purposes. For example you buy a CD, you rip it to put it on your phone, on an other CD for your car etc...
I'm unfamiliar with French law, but everything I know about sanity and common sense says that this is ludicrous.
Comments
That's the kind of accounting issue I was suggesting.
It's not a case of Apple refusing to pay the tax or collecting tax that they didn't plan to pay. It's a question of just how much they actually owe - which is a factual matter to be resolved, not a reason to attack Apple's integrity (which seems to be the tenor of the original article).
The $6.5 million sum being charged in France is minuscule compared to the billions in income taxes that some believe should be paid in the EU.
TFTFY
Quote:
Originally Posted by smalM
The $6.5 million sum being charged in France is minuscule compared to the billions in income taxes that some believe should be paid in the EU.
TFTFY
Mind that "some" believe these Billion $ taxes should instead be paid in the US ... or at both places ... Finally, the only consensus is that Apple should pay ....
To those interested in how Apple legally (like many other multinational companies) avoids taxes in EU see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Sandwich, and you will know everything about the "Dutch sandwich"/ double Irish arrangement
Major companies known to employ the double Irish strategy are:
Adobe Systems[5]
Apple Inc.[2]
Eli Lilly and Company[5]
Facebook[6]
Forest Laboratories[5]
General Electric[6]
Google[5][6][7]
Johnson & Johnson[6]
Microsoft[5]
Nederlandse Spoorwegen[8]
Oracle Corp.[5]
Pfizer Inc.[5]
Starbucks[6]
In the EU not in every county has this law and the ones that do it is hurting consumers that is for sure, and you wonder why their economy is still sucking wind. In countries which have the tax and they have DVR service the biggest DVR drive they can get from their service provider is 160GB, since the tax is close to 10 Euro. and the cable company pays this cost not the consumer since they do not buy the cable box. The taxes goes up more then double as the storage capacity doubles.
As someone pointed out Apple is arguing the amount of tax is because the calculation is not simple and it based on actually usable capacity to storage copy protected content. Apple is probably subtracting out the amount used to run the device. Also, Apple is probably not passing the tax on, since in France you can pay the same price for an Ipad as any other EU country. Apple is absorbing the cost for the France citizens. Or the rest of us are subsidizing the French government for it citizens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by umrk_lab
... see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Sandwich, and you will know everything about the "Dutch sandwich"/ double Irish arrangement
I'm not Dutch, but I resemble that remark...
Who believes that? Obviously, not the people who write the laws that Apple is following.
Everything Apple is doing is perfectly legal. They have no obligation (moral or otherwise) to pay more in taxes than required. In fact, their obligation to the shareholders requires them to pay the minimum required taxes - which is what they do.
If EU officials think Apple should be paying more, they are free to write the laws however they think they should be written.
Taxes will solve Apple's cash hoard problems. If Apple pays all the taxes everyone claims they owe because of what the 'intent and spirit' of the tax law were and are then the cash will be gone and Apple will be in debt. No sense in Apple paying only the taxes that Apple is legally obligated to pay because then everyone will criticize them for not paying their 'fair' share.
I don't think they've avoided over $20b total and they have $145b cash. Paying expected tax rates wouldn't make a dent on their cash pile. Even repatriating all of it would leave them with over $97b.
All of the money was paid by customers. This $6.5m is collected like sales tax and not really up to Apple to decide on. It goes straight from the customer to the tax recipient. You can see on the French checkout page the fee on the iPad Mini:
The SACEM organisation apparently collects over 800m euros a year, 15% of which goes to pay 1400 staff. That's an average salary of 85k euros/year. Apparently the SACEM president got 750k as a salary. Tax collection is nice work if you can get it.
And to paraphrase The Offspring, you're pretty fly for a white guy.
What the bloody hell, you can just "imagine" news now?
France did not order Apple to do anything. SACEM, which is the French equivalent of RIAA, did.
If RIAA (or the pro-gun movement, or any kind of non-government thingie) decides to demand something, it doesn't mean the country did it, what kind of "journalism" is this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav
When Canada had the iPod levy (thankfully, they don't anymore), lots of people used that levy to justify piracy. Be careful, France. Do you want your citizens to think "hey, I already pay money to the artists, why should I pay them twice?"
SACEM is RIAA.
Originally Posted by reroll
…a tax on your right to copy and re-use a legally acquired content for private purposes. For example you buy a CD, you rip it to put it on your phone, on an other CD for your car etc...
I'm unfamiliar with French law, but everything I know about sanity and common sense says that this is ludicrous.
Magnifique!