Mobile payments growing, no thanks to NFC or Google Wallet

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 38
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Good grief!  You get a push notification every time there's an opportunity to buy something?  I'd be constantly distracted by that and never get anything else done in life!  The constant "app update" notifications are annoying enough as it is--why can't they be dismissed and sent away?  Apple really goofed up with that.

    I don't get any any buying opportunity updates on mine. Just the Passbook pass on the lock screen when I'm near, and the rolling notification at the top of the home screen or app screen when the balance updates which is near instantaneous. I have to access the actual Starbucks app to see how many stars I need before my free drink and any specials that have come through.
  • Reply 21 of 38
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    .
  • Reply 23 of 38

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    1) Mensa scholar? You mean Rhodes scholar?


     


    A quick Google search suggests that Mensa gives out scholarships, so it's good enough. I'm sure you got the gist of what I meant. Is this really necessary?


     


    2) Apple not supporting something that is used on the most popular smartphone in the US with the highest satisfaction rating and mindshare will put a damper on adoption, but you state "just because" with an erroneous cause and effect association. There are lots of things Apple has supported that has failed and lots of things Apple hasn't supported that became successes.


     


    Yes, which is why I said that Apple isn't the big problem here; the major problem is that the carriers block it. The only people that can use Google Wallet right now are the intersection of the 13.1% that use Sprint and the 51.7% that use Android, which comes out to about 6.8% of the US population, plus whatever the Nexus's market-share is, which I imagine isn't large. It's pretty unrealistic to expect wide success when you can't sell to over 90% of the country.


     


    3) If and when Apple finally supports any NFC-like system it will likely mean it will be a success because of Apple's track record of being able to take multiple technologies and wrap them into a single unified system that people enjoy using. In no way does it mean they will be successful, but their track record on this is better than most.


     


    Based on the carriers' current track record, even if Apple comes out with their own solution, all the carriers save Sprint will block it from their networks for competing with their stupid ISIS thing. Sure, maybe Apple will have enough clout to send them all the middle finger and put their own (or just allow Google Wallet) anyway. Maybe they won't. It's all empty speculation at this point.


     


    4) There is absolutely no history of Apple including HW that will have absolutely no use to the user unless they jailbreak it first. If they add and market NFC they will also SW foundation to go along with it, and likely have deals with various vendors to actually make it useful from day one. The latter would seem to be the harder component to achieve.


    Well, the HW has other uses besides mobile payments, which they may want to get in on — being able to easily send files to other people is kind of fun. There do seem to be a lot of rumors toward the 5S having NFC on it, and of course Apple's not going to want to be left behind if this ends up becoming the next big thing.


     


    BTW, unrelated note. Is there any way to break up a block quote for inline replies on this site without going into the HTML source editor? And if not, why is that?

  • Reply 24 of 38
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 4,599member


    Okay, if people are not using NFC payment or Google e-wallet to do mobile payment how are mobile payment hitting $235.4B in 2013, what mobile system are people using. The article said money transfer but those are not mobile payments. Unless they assuming a CC transaction is a money transfer and it is mobile because you carry a credit card on your person, well most people carry cash and checks too are those also included?

  • Reply 25 of 38
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Based on the carriers' current track record, even if Apple comes out with their own solution, all the carriers save Sprint will block it from their networks for competing with their stupid ISIS thing. Sure, maybe Apple will have enough clout to send them all the middle finger and put their own (or just allow Google Wallet) anyway. Maybe they won't. It's all empty speculation at this point.

    I don't see that as a problem. The NFC is on the device and the carrier won't have access to it. They didn't in 2007 and won't in 2013+. All transactions that need to verify with a server will use IPSec standards. The carriers surely don't like iMessage killing their SMS but they can't do anything about it.
    BTW, unrelated note. Is there any way to break up a block quote for inline replies on this site without going into the HTML source editor? And if not, why is that?

    I use the BB Code editor with a TextExpander shortcut that will add {/quote} [I[plus couple Returns[/I] {quote} so I can easily break up a comment.
  • Reply 26 of 38

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    I don't see that as a problem. The NFC is on the device and the carrier won't have access to it. They didn't in 2007 and won't in 2013+. All transactions that need to verify with a server will use IPSec standards. The carriers surely don't like iMessage killing their SMS but they can't do anything about it.


     


    Tell that to Verizon. They've blocked it in 2011:


     


    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204770404577081610232043208.html


     


    2012:


     


    http://www.droid-life.com/2012/12/10/verizon-responds-to-fcc-complaint-over-blocking-of-google-wallet-says-google-needs-to-change-the-app/


     


    2013:


     


    http://phandroid.com/2013/04/30/verizon-blocking-google-wallet/


     


    This exists on Apple's side of the fence too. Remember the FaceTime introduction? The phone was technologically capable of using FaceTime over the cellular network, and many people used it that way with jailbroken phones, but out of the box it was Wi-Fi only, because AT&T didn't like it.


     



    I use the BB Code editor with a TextExpander shortcut that will add {/quote} [I[plus couple Returns[/I] {quote} so I can easily break up a comment.


     


    That would be great. Is the BB Code editor something I can enable in the site preferences somewhere? All I get right now is a somewhat lame WYSIWYG editor that, as usual, doesn't give nearly the amount of control I'd prefer, and — oddly — a "Source" button that gives me access to the raw HTML source of my post. I wonder if I'd be able to stick </html> in there and automatically get the last word on any discussion?

  • Reply 27 of 38
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    This exists on Apple's side of the fence too. Remember the FaceTime introduction? The phone was technologically capable of using FaceTime over the cellular network, and many people used it that way with jailbroken phones, but out of the box it was Wi-Fi only, because AT&T didn't like it.

    Ugh! That is not the same thing.
    That would be great. Is the BB Code editor something I can enable in the site preferences somewhere? All I get right now is a somewhat lame WYSIWYG editor that, as usual, doesn't give nearly the amount of control I'd prefer, and — oddly — a "Source" button that gives me access to the raw HTML source of my post. I wonder if I'd be able to stick </html> in there and automatically get the last word on any discussion?

    1000
  • Reply 28 of 38
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,741member
    Tell that to Verizon. They've blocked it in 2011:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204770404577081610232043208.html

    That would be great. Is the BB Code editor something I can enable in the site preferences somewhere? All I get right now is a somewhat lame WYSIWYG editor that, as usual, doesn't give nearly the amount of control I'd prefer, and — oddly — a "Source" button that gives me access to the raw HTML source of my post. I wonder if I'd be able to stick </html> in there and automatically get the last word on any discussion?

    I had trouble finding it too. It's in the Preferences menu to the right under "Post a Reply". Certainly not the first place I would have expected to find it.
  • Reply 29 of 38
    solipsismx wrote: »
    Ugh! That is not the same thing.
    And the reason why is because... ?
    solipsismx wrote: »
    :big image:
    gatorguy wrote: »
    I had trouble finding it too. It's in the Preferences menu to the right under "Post a Reply". Certainly not the first place I would have expected to find it.
    Ah, so much better! Thanks a lot. :)
  • Reply 30 of 38
    evilutionevilution Posts: 1,360member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post


    Sorry, what is NFC?



    http://bit.ly/VfA3uO

  • Reply 31 of 38
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    And the reason why is because... ?

    I'll make this as brief as possible because I don't want to get into the finer details of the technologies, logistics and politics… and it's off topic.
    Spoiler:
  • Reply 32 of 38
    solipsismx wrote: »
    Politics: I don't recall any carrier blocking FaceTime packets as they traversed the network which is why it worked with JBen devices. It was probably AT&T that was able to persuade Apple not to include it.
    I'm not talking about blocking packets as they traversed the network. What they have been doing is blocking the manufacturers from putting it on their phones, or, in other words, "persuading" them not to include it, and also setting up software blocks to prevent users from installing it themselves. Google Wallet works just fine on rooted (e.g. the Android equivalent of jailbroken) Android phones. It's just that most users don't root their phones.
    Logistics: It's one thing to have a handful of people using a service and another to have millions of people accessing that same service. Perhaps AT&T leveraged their contract to get Apple not to include it, or perhaps they paid them, or perhaps they simply convinced Apple that dozens of millions using FT as a novelty over their network the first week would have been too much strain.
    Also not a difference. Perhaps Verizon et al. leveraged their contracts to get the HW makers to block GW from their phones. In fact, they almost certainly did. They certainly did try to convince makers that it was harmful (although, for some reason, the almost identical ISIS isn't, of course). Their rationale was in one of the links I posted.
    Technologies: VoIP and VC use very similar protocols. The latter clearly has video options, but they all use the same protocols for setting up a call and then connect to each othe directly through other protocols. They also use QoS. Unlike a webpage where items can be asked for again or be received out of order any VoIP or video needs to be real time. This means it uses UDP not TCP and on a proper network get priority over most or all other traffic to ensure that the data arrives as quickly as possible. This is huge business for which I'm intimately aware. The results of FT over '3G' may have been acceptable to jawbreakers just as the 8fps video of the original iPhone from those that had JBen their phones gave them a soapbox for which to say that video is possible on the iPhone. I think FT over '3G' fared much better than that old example, but we aren't talking about millions with an iPhone 4. Remember what happened to iCloud and Siri that first weekend?
    I saw the videos of FaceTime going over 3G. I used to get more lag than that with iChat over DSL back in the day, but it didn't keep Apple from releasing that. Technology is just an excuse — the reason it didn't go on the iPhone is because AT&T didn't want to have to deal with the extra network usage. Regardless, it's the same argument Verizon's using now — they're claiming that it's harmful for some reason, because it uses the phone's secure element, and thus they won't allow it.
  • Reply 33 of 38
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    I saw the videos of FaceTime going over 3G. I used to get more lag than that with iChat over DSL back in the day, but it didn't keep Apple from releasing that.

    I can set up a flawless VoIP network with my 10 year old Cisco router in my home lab so I guess that means that node can support an entire office building? :rolleyes:
  • Reply 34 of 38
    We can argue all day about the relative merits of AT&T's decision to keep Apple from allowing 3G FaceTime on the iPhone and Verizon, AT&T, and T-Mo's decision to keep vendors from allowing Google Wallet on their phones, but that's not really going to result in a convincing argument that one is somehow fundamentally different from the other.
  • Reply 35 of 38
    stelligentstelligent Posts: 2,680member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Pooch View Post





    i learned in a high school writing class that when using acronyms, you expand them upon first use and then use the acronym in the remainder of the piece.



    so that sentence should have been "... as near field communication (NFC) payments and services ...".



    a quick net search shows that what i learned so long ago is still applicable today.



    but this is appleinsider, a blog, so don't expect anything even approaching professional writing.


     


    In high school, did you learn the use of capitalization? Just kidding ... kind of.


     


    There are exceptions to every rule. If an acronym is expected to be understood by the audience, there is no need to expand it upon first use or anywhere else. For example, I could just write "WTF" instead of "What the ****." (Note the placement of the period; it should always be inside the quotation mark. That too hasn't changed since high school.)

  • Reply 36 of 38
    stelligentstelligent Posts: 2,680member


    NFC may not be taking off in mobile payment. But it is catching on in other applications. If this trend continues, "other" tablets may ride the coattails of those applications if Apple doesn't add it to the iPads.

  • Reply 37 of 38
    poochpooch Posts: 768member
    stelligent wrote: »
    In high school, did you learn the use of capitalization? Just kidding ... kind of.

    There are exceptions to every rule. If an acronym is expected to be understood by the audience, there is no need to expand it upon first use or anywhere else. For example, I could just write "WTF" instead of "What the ****." (Note the placement of the period; it should always be inside the quotation mark. That too hasn't changed since high school.)

    i did learn about that capitalization thingy. but it was in grade school if i remember correctly, which i probably don't. writing in (almost) all lower case is my personal stye, and i would expect to be held to a different and lesser standard since i'm not trying to pass myself off as a professional and earn money from my writing, which is precisely what appleinsider *is* trying to do.

    at best, appleinsider is inconsistent. for example, in a different blog entry they lead with "Apple has started installing banners for next week's World Wide Developer Conference" ... as most people reading here know what WWDC is, and using your exceptions, why didn't they just use the acronym? since in yet a different blog entry they lead with "Ahead of a possible "iRadio" debut at WWDC".

    i think the jury is still out (and will probably remain out) on the period inside/outside the quotation mark ... not sure of your location, but it seems to be mostly americans who are hung up on it being inside.
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